Anti teen pregnancy posters

Nevyn

What do you think ?

spinandscribble

a side view might have been better. looks like a huge beer belly.

LadyJ

TBH, I'm not even entirely sure what they're getting at...?
Are those guys teenagers? They look kinda older.

Nevyn

They are teens.
The idea being that the image of a teen age boy who is preggers is shocking and disturbing and that the image or idea of a teenage girl being preggers should be too.

LadyJ

Yeah I figured that was it but they just looked a bit older to me, though on second glance they look younger. Anyway, I dunno if they're gonna be very effective. Doesn't really send any real message.

Clare Bear

Nah, doesn't exactly hit home really does it?! Nothing there to make you think.

Crumble Froo

em, to be honest. they wouldn't be any sort of huge deterrent for me. it looks odd, but, if you hadn't pointed it out specifically, id glance at the poster, be briefly amused, and leave.

but, who are the posters specifically aimed at? teenage boys, girls, or both? cos, i think anyway, that a teenage boy would look at it, and, if any amount of thought went into it, would probably kinda dismiss it, in that, it won't happen to them, and despite the ideal, the sight of a pregnant teenage girl isn't that abnormal, it's something we've all seen.

honestly actually, i think the ones with the stats as to how many girls always thought 'it wouldn't happen to me', were the ones that always got me.

Pighead

Pighead agrees. They're not really HARD hitting at all. In fact, Pighead would go as far as to say that they are actually SOFT hitting. Teenage girls aren't gonna be shocked by those pics, in fact some will probably swoon over the first lads edgy haircut.

If Pighead were in charge of that ad campaign he'd have the two lads stretched out on a hospital bed pushing out a baby through their todgers. That'd make the young uns think twice.

Lockstep

Pighead wrote: »

Pighead agrees. They're not really HARD hitting at all. In fact, Pighead would go as far as to say that they are actually SOFT hitting. Teenage girls aren't gonna be shocked by those pics, in fact some will probably swoon over the first lads edgy haircut.

If Pighead were in charge of that ad campaign he'd have the two lads stretched out on a hospital bed pushing out a baby through their todgers. That'd make the young uns think twice.

I found a new way to pass time before heading out.

Click on Pigheads profile, see whatever thread he's replying to and wait for him to write a new magnum opus.

God bless you Pighead.

For the record,I knew women turned on by pot bellies on guys (!) so this mightny work on them

spinandscribble

pigheads got the right idea

LadyJ

Pighead is on the money here. Even a video of a woman giving birth would deter young girls from men, let alone sex imo!
However, this sh!t is not gonna work.

the_syco

From a dude's perspective, I've no idea what message you're trying to convoy.

Are you saying this in a negative light, or a positive light? I ask, as when I look at it, it's almost in a "why you shouldn't care if a teenager is pregnant , as they look like lads with beer bellies" light.

Not disturbing, slightly funny, and wouldn't really get a second glance.

Lockstep

Was anyone else reminded of that Johnny Bravo episode where he's babysitting or something and watching tv?

Voice on TV: "I have good news, I'm pregnant!"
2nd voice on TV "Oh honey, you can't get pregnant. You're a man"

ztoical

the first guy looks like he is made out of plastic, it took me a second to see the belly, it just looks like bad photoshoping.

Not sure it works really well as a pregnant girl isn't going to around half naked like that - I understand what they are going for but its doesn't read as a realistic situation. Maybe if they were dressed and had them walking along the street or hanging out with their friends and you could see the contrast.

spinandscribble

they look (to a young teen i'd imagine) like their meant to be cool. it kinda makes it cool lol. seriously this doesnt work at all.

Lockstep

spinandscribble wrote: »

they look (to a young teen i'd imagine) like their meant to be cool. it kinda makes it cool lol. seriously this doesnt work at all.

How long before we get anti teen pregnancy raps?

"yo yo yo, teen preggas is not phat homie"
Etc

the_syco

ztoical wrote: »

Maybe if they were dressed and had them walking along the street or hanging out with their friends and you could see the contrast.

Agreed. A pregnant dude (in a slumped preggers posture) with other non-pregnant dudes would stick out better.

Oh, and they look like they're from a Calvin Kline ad.

randylonghorn

Doesn't work at all. For one thing, the reality is men don't get pregnant at ANY age ... if only women could get pregnant in the teenage years, whereas men could get pregnant but only at a later age, and therefore teen guys pregnant would be surprising / shocking, there might be some sense to it.

A different caption might have improved it somewhat, e.g.
"Guys, would you be as quick to 'forget' the condom if it could happen to you?"
or something like that ... but this is just confused / silly.

cuckoo

randylonghorn wrote: »

A different caption might have improved it somewhat, e.g.
"Guys, would you be as quick to 'forget' the condom if it could happen to you?"
or something like that ... but this is just confused / silly.

And the pictures could have been of the guys in a painful labour, then surrounded by dirty nappies and with a crying baby.

I think the actual pregnancy is not what should be focused on so much, instead there should be an emphasis on the responsiblities of rearing the child.

Nevyn

The add is aimed at the complacency about teen pregnancy's and the text on it is about how much they cost society as a whole.
So teen should be educated better.

WindSock

It's a crap ad. And insensitive. So it's saying pregnant boys are completely unnatural and disturbing, so it should be unnatural and disturbing also if it's a girl? Not a very nice thing to see if you are preggars.

Peared

Its just silly, no shock value, nothing to make you think. And who is it meant to target? Young lads will just be reminded that if they do get anyone pregnant they dont have to deal with it. And it doesnt relate to girls in any way. Actually its more of a comment to older people about teen pregnancy. But sure what use to anyone is that?

Young girls should be shown pictures of stretch marks and post labour vaginas and their topshop skinny jeans dying of loneliness in the wardrobe and their mates going to college and having careers while they wipe up baby sick. Far more effective.

Lil' Smiler

Peared wrote: »

Young girls should be shown pictures of stretch marks and post labour vaginas and their topshop skinny jeans dying of loneliness in the wardrobe and their mates going to college and having careers while they wipe up baby sick. Far more effective.

I completely agree with that! Girls need to be shown the (i hate to say it - please no one take offence) negative side of pregnancy. I definitely think showing them thinks like that would be more effective

The first pic... he looks more like a girl than a guy!! Hard to see the belly in those pics.

Where did these posters come from?

Spyral

The add is aimed at the complacency about teen pregnancy's and the text on it is about how much they cost society as a whole.
So teen should be educated better.
__________________

educated ? as in 'use contraception' as that mentality has failed as anyone in the uk will tell you

Crumble Froo

LadyJ wrote: »

Pighead is on the money here. Even a video of a woman giving birth would deter young girls from men, let alone sex imo!
However, this sh!t is not gonna work.

yep, i do recall being shown a video of a woman giving birth, almost no angle went unchecked. this was first class tuesday morning during first year college.

the whole class were basically silent for the day, and we agreed (only half jokingly) to set up a celibate society. definitley scary and definitely hit home.

Lil' Smiler

narco wrote: »

yep, i do recall being shown a video of a woman giving birth, almost no angle went unchecked. this was first class tuesday morning during first year college.

the whole class were basically silent for the day, and we agreed (only half jokingly) to set up a celibate society. definitley scary and definitely hit home.

You see the thing is being shown it in first year college is too late as it is

It should probably be be first year in secondary school.

we got our sex talk in school in 6th class but of course we didn't take it seriously and thought it was hilarious. then in secondary we got the contraception side of it but still we had old teachers teaching us and e didn't listen

kids need people they can relate to and scare tactics put in front of them if there's going to be any hope of it discouraging them

JC 2K3

Spyral wrote: »

educated ? as in 'use contraception' as that mentality has failed as anyone in the uk will tell you

Yeah, and Catholic demonisation of sex worked so well over here :rolleyes:

Those ads are retarded. Teens already know that pregnancy is a bad thing at such a young age. It's not like young girls are thinking "ah sure it's grand if I get pregnant".

Also, scare tactics don't work on young people. We're far too desensitised and less naive than older generations were.

Crumble Froo

true. though that video wasn't part of any sort of sex education, we were learning about ante and post natal care and all that ...

Peared

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Yeah, and Catholic demonisation of sex worked so well over here :rolleyes:

Those ads are retarded. Teens already know that pregnancy is a bad thing at such a young age. It's not like young girls are thinking "ah sure it's grand if I get pregnant".

I dont know if young girls really do know its not a great idea though. When you have eegits like Nicole Ritchie, Jamie Lynn Spears, Lily Allen and people these girls look up to doing it, it can seem like its not such a bad thing. Obviously they dont factor in the small detail that these girls are loaded. A lot of them still think they will be handed a house the minute they pop too. Lots of teen pregnancies are genuine mistakes, but lots are girls looking to escape from something, or dont know any different, its what they see around them.

I think life education, not just sex education needs to be thought in schools. Its a nice idea to think parents should do it but that simply doesnt happen in lots of homes.

randylonghorn

Spyral wrote: »

educated ? as in 'use contraception' as that mentality has failed as anyone in the uk will tell you

And for the failure of the "don't use contraception" mentality cf. Magdalene Laundries and the "oh, Mary has gone on a long holiday to her Auntie Betty in London" scenario ... as anyone in Ireland above a certain age will tell you.

Lil' Smiler wrote: »

we got our sex talk in school in 6th class but of course we didn't take it seriously and thought it was hilarious. then in secondary we got the contraception side of it but still we had old teachers teaching us and we didn't listen

kids need people they can relate to ...

Agreed 100%

embee

narco wrote: »

yep, i do recall being shown a video of a woman giving birth, almost no angle went unchecked. this was first class tuesday morning during first year college.

the whole class were basically silent for the day, and we agreed (only half jokingly) to set up a celibate society. definitley scary and definitely hit home.

I don't get this at all. I don't get why grown women are so freaked at the idea of your body doing what it is built for. It takes a lot to shock people these days - I don't think that viewing a birth is enough to deter a teenager from pregnancy. Birth is birth is birth no matter what age you are - it isn't any more "horrifying" at 14 than it is at 40.

Peared wrote: »

Young girls should be shown pictures of stretch marks and post labour vaginas and their topshop skinny jeans dying of loneliness in the wardrobe and their mates going to college and having careers while they wipe up baby sick. Far more effective.

Post-labour vaginas are the same as pre-pregnancy vaginas. It is a myth that the vagina is ruined or misshapen in anyway postpartum - this only happens (and even at that it is very rare) in women who have had multiple vaginal deliveries - ie 6 or more.

Peared wrote: »

When you have eegits like Nicole Ritchie, Jamie Lynn Spears, Lily Allen and people these girls look up to doing it, it can seem like its not such a bad thing.

Both Lily Allen and Nicole Richie are both in their 20's. They are adult women having children... I don't see what the problem is with that. They shouldn't not have children just because teenage girls might look up to them - that is just crazy.

Peared

First off, about the vaginas I was speaking about straight after the birth. Also there are a lot of women whos bits are never the same again.

About the celebs. Im not saying for one moment they should not have babies in case teenagers decide to copy them. Im saying that they see glimpses of lifestyles they might aspire to, without knowing the full facts. Also two of those mentioned above got pregnant within months of meeting the fellas. It normalises it. Celebrity is god these days. Im not saying this has a huge part to play but it certainly alters some teens perception of pregnancy.

embee

Peared wrote: »

About the celebs. Im not saying for one moment they should not have babies in case teenagers decide to copy them. Im saying that they see glimpses of lifestyles they might aspire to, without knowing the full facts. Also two of those mentioned above got pregnant within months of meeting the fellas. It normalises it. Celebrity is god these days. Im not saying this has a huge part to play but it certainly alters some teens perception of pregnancy.

I don't understand why the length of time you're with someone if and when you get pregnant is important - is there some rule that I'm not aware of that says you aren't allowed to get pregnant if you've been with someone less than X months?!

My parents have been married since they were both 19. My brother was born when they were 18. They were together a year or maybe less when my Mother got pregnant. They will be married 29 years in March - does it really matter in the long run how old they were or how long they were together when my Mam got pregnant?

... I think that, whilst most teenage pregnancies are unplanned, the age of the parents is irrelevant. Maturity and responsibility are not things you get on your 21st birthday.

ztoical

embee wrote: »

I don't get this at all. I don't get why grown women are so freaked at the idea of your body doing what it is built for. It takes a lot to shock people these days - I don't think that viewing a birth is enough to deter a teenager from pregnancy. Birth is birth is birth no matter what age you are - it isn't any more "horrifying" at 14 than it is at 40.

I don't know - I'd seen a few videos and they didn't have any effect but channel 4 had a great series about child birth a couple of years back and they showed several births on the series - one woman wanted to go the whole no drugs, everything natural road and dear good I still have nightmares about it. I know thats what your built for blah blah blah but to a 14/15 that kind image might make you stop and think.

JC 2K3

Ideally sperm would just be collected from boys when they hit puberty and vasectomies would be performed on them. Freeze the sperm and implant into his future partner whenever they want kids.

It's so simple really....

Armin_Tamzarian

I've known plenty of girls who became pregnant whilst in their teens.
In most cases they've gone on to have good lives and have been good
parents with decent kids.
I've often wondered, but never asked, if such anit-teen pregnancy campaigns cause them offence.
Perhaps these campaigns would be better using STDs to warn against unprotected sex.

ztoical

The best anit teen pregnancy material I ever saw was a comic book by Katherine Arnoldi called The Amazing True Story of a Teenage Single Mom Its the true story of what the author went through when she found herself pregnant and thrown out by her parents and how she not only got through it but went to college and had a great life. It doesn't promote teenage pregnancy but shows girls its not the end of their lives if they do find themselves in that situation.

Arnoldi travels around the states going to high schools and middle schools to give out copies of the comic and to talk to the students.

Crumble Froo

with regards the videos, it'd never dawned on us how painful the whole thing might be, until that video. and... well, it's something to think about next tmie putting a condom on seems like a bit much effort.

for me, the biggest reason for contraception is the thought of having my own child,a nd my life changing completely as a result. personally, i think that that is the kind of thing that needs to be put across in ads.

randylonghorn

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Ideally sperm would just be collected from boys when they hit puberty and vasectomies would be performed on them. Freeze the sperm and implant into his future partner whenever they want kids.

Would you like to volunteer for the pilot project?

tallaght01

The problem is that teen pregnancy is multifactorial.

But we only ever deal with it one dimensionally.

It relates to lack of education, sure. But that's in the context of social class, peer pressure, parental example and self esteem, amongst other issues.

We so rarely deal with these issues as a whole package.

I recently looked after a 13 year old with twins in work. It's a really freaky dynamic to watch.

It's a sad fact that it's becoming more common for me, as a paediatrician, to have a mum and her baby both under my care.

There is a bottom line though, that's almost guaranteed to improve teenage pregnancy rates.. and that's improvement in socio-economic class. It's a simple fact that the more deprived your background, the more likely you are to have an earlier pregancy.

When teenagers in deprived areas within prosperous countries start seeing some of the benefits of economic development, then you'll see the picture improving.

cuckoo

tallaght01 wrote: »

I recently looked after a 13 year old with twins in work. It's a really freaky dynamic to watch.

It's a sad fact that it's becoming less common for me, as a paediatrician, to have a mum and her baby both under my care.

:eek:

Are the scarily young parents themselves ever asked what factors could have delayed them becoming parents, eg education, awareness of how needy/expensive/loud babies are?

And, tallaght, out of curiousity - are the fathers of these babies on the scene much? Also (and,yeah, i'm reaching for a cliche perhaps...) are the fathers of these young mothers around much as well?

LadyJ

Armin_Tamzarian wrote: »

Perhaps these campaigns would be better using STDs to warn against unprotected sex.

I agree that teens should also be educated about the dangers of unprotected sex with regard to STDs, however, when I was a teenager STDs were certainly not what crossed my mind when I was making my boyfriend put on a condom. It was the idea of getting pregnant in my teens!

Imo, if you want teens to use contraception then play the baby card. They will respond better I reckon. I still think that we should warn them about health issues but the thought of pregnancy is most prevalent in young people's minds I believe. If scaring them about their lives being turned upside down by having a baby will get them to use contraception then it will obviously help to prevent the STDs too.

tallaght01

cuckoo wrote: »

:eek:

Are the scarily young parents themselves ever asked what factors could have delayed them becoming parents, eg education, awareness of how needy/expensive/loud babies are?

And, tallaght, out of curiousity - are the fathers of these babies on the scene much? Also (and,yeah, i'm reaching for a cliche perhaps...) are the fathers of these young mothers around much as well?

These teenagers usually don't want to talk about their reasons for getting pregnant with a load of doctors and nurses, by and large. Certainly not when we're seeing them in the days after delivery, when their baby is often unwell too (these mums have higher rates of complications, and their babies are often quite unwell).

Sometimes we get to chat to them about it. When they do discuss it with us, as patronising as it sounds, I don't think their answers usually reflect the reality of the bigger picture. They may say "The reason I got pregnant was because I didn't know you could get pregnant if he pulled out". But why did they think that? Why did they not have the confidence to say they didn't want o have sex? Why were they on their own in their house for a week etc etc.

These kids are young and vulnerable. They are at risk in more ways than they know themselves. Therefore, I think it's up to society to work out why they become pregnant, and not the teenagers themselves.

The answer to your other question is no and no, sadly.

The father of the teenage mum has very very often not been on the scene in donkeys years. Of course, many teenage pregnancies happen in happy, loving homes, but most happen in the type of homes you would expect them to happen in, unfortunately.

I always feel sad for the fathers of the baby. You're a 13 or 14 year old boy. It's the shock of your life. The bravado flies out the window pretty quickly. The mum gets virtually all the attention and support. The dad ends up a kind of lost soul, often banned from seeing his girlfriend, and treated like the bad guy by her family. You can imagine how the families of these girls often treat the guy responsible! His family often don't want to be associated with an early teen pregancy, so they're happy to keep their distance too.

And all the while you have a 13 year old kid, who has often never experienced fathering himself at home, who has a child. He doesn't know what to do, or how to cope. So, what does he do? He walks away and ignores it.

The whole thing just becomes an unholy mess.

Peared

embee wrote: »

I don't understand why the length of time you're with someone if and when you get pregnant is important - is there some rule that I'm not aware of that says you aren't allowed to get pregnant if you've been with someone less than X months?!

My parents have been married since they were both 19. My brother was born when they were 18. They were together a year or maybe less when my Mother got pregnant. They will be married 29 years in March - does it really matter in the long run how old they were or how long they were together when my Mam got pregnant?

... I think that, whilst most teenage pregnancies are unplanned, the age of the parents is irrelevant. Maturity and responsibility are not things you get on your 21st birthday.

Yes I think it can matter how old you are when you get pregnant. There is a big difference between a 13 year old and a 19 year old getting pregnant yet they are both teen pregnancies. Of course you dont automatically gain parenting skills at a certain age but its fair to say a 25 year old will be more mentally prepared than a 15 year old. That doesnt mean a better parent, some of the best mums I know were teenage mums. But while their child wanted for nothing and turned out great they themselves didnt even finish school and do not have the lives they deserve. Fair play to your folks embee but there are always exceptions. The reality for most teenage girls is that there will not be a father around to help them bring up the child and they will struggle.

And no I dont think you need to be with someone for x amount of time before getting pregnant. I was simply saying that many young confused/lonely girls look up to celebrities and sometimes apply their behaviour to their own lives. Thats not blaming anyone or making a judgement on it, its simply a fact.

I dont "disapprove" of young single parents. I see the abuse they get and the way most struggle on a daily basis and my heart goes out to them. I just think they and their babies deserve more than that kind of life usually gives them.

Getting back to the ad campaign, I do think young girls need to be shown the reality of this life in a way that will strike a chord with them. Im not quite sure what that is but silly pregnant fellas isnt it.

Quality

narco wrote: »

with regards the videos, it'd never dawned on us how painful the whole thing might be, until that video. and... well, it's something to think about next tmie putting a condom on seems like a bit much effort.

Peared wrote: »

Yes I think it can matter how old you are when you get pregnant. There is a big difference between a 13 year old and a 19 year old getting pregnant yet they are both teen pregnancies. Of course you dont automatically gain parenting skills at a certain age but its fair to say a 25 year old will be more mentally prepared than a 15 year old. That doesnt mean a better parent, some of the best mums I know were teenage mums. But while their child wanted for nothing and turned out great they themselves didnt even finish school and do not have the lives they deserve. Fair play to your folks embee but there are always exceptions. The reality for most teenage girls is that there will not be a father around to help them bring up the child and they will struggle.

I dont think the hard part of having a child is the giving birth to it, That pain is pain with a purpose.

The difficult part is raring your child. I think that difficulty will be there if you are 13, 18, 25, 30, 35 or 40 having a child. People deal with situations differently and it does help when you are a little bit more mature, But just by being a teen mother shouldnt make you a bad parent.

I also would like to say that not having the father on the scene is not indictive that a parent is going to struggle. There are plenty of single parents out there doing a fine job of raising there kids on their own...

tallaght01

Quality wrote: »

The difficult part is raring your child. I think that difficulty will be there if you are 13, 18, 25, 30, 35 or 40 having a child. People deal with situations differently and it does help when you are a little bit more mature, But just by being a teen mother shouldnt make you a bad parent.

True, everyone finds raising a child difficult but a 13 year old is going to have a LOT more trouble raising a child than someone who is, say, 25.

Also, the issue isn't just about how good a parent a teenager would be, but how it affects their life, through lack of educational and social opportunities etc. Plus how it affects the life of their family, who often have to act as de facto parents for the new baby

Peared

tallaght01 wrote: »

True, everyone finds raising a child difficult but a 13 year old is going to have a LOT more trouble raising a child than someone who is, say, 25.

Also, the issue isn't just about how good a parent a teenager would be, but how it affects their life, through lack of educational and social opportunities etc. Plus how it affects the life of their family, who often have to act as de facto parents for the new baby

Thanks tallaght thats what I have been trying to say but some people seem to just want to disagree with someone who in fact is saying the same thing as them

Quality

As far as I am aware there are some quite good educational opportunities for teen parents in this country. A lot of the Health boards are encouraging young mothers to go back to school and offer child care.

I think pregnancy will effect your life socially no matter what age you are.

It is sad when a young girl gets pregnant, I would not like to see my daughter as a young pregnant teen.


I think if you ask someone who is unable to concieve a child if they had of had an opportunity to have a teen pregnancy would they have gone ahead with it, I think they would have grasped it.

Life is a gift and should be embraced..

Bottle_of_Smoke

They should show images of crowning. Though might result in a general decline in population.

embee

Quality wrote: »

I dont think the hard part of having a child is the giving birth to it, That pain is pain with a purpose.

The difficult part is raring your child. I think that difficulty will be there if you are 13, 18, 25, 30, 35 or 40 having a child. People deal with situations differently and it does help when you are a little bit more mature, But just by being a teen mother shouldnt make you a bad parent.

I also would like to say that not having the father on the scene is not indictive that a parent is going to struggle. There are plenty of single parents out there doing a fine job of raising there kids on their own...

I'd agree with everything you've said here, Quality. No matter what age you are when you first become a parent, it is difficult. I'm not disputing for a second that a teenage Mum would probably find it more difficult than someone in their late 20's or early 30's, but parenting is the biggest challenge I've ever undertaken in my life, and it doesn't stop. But definitely, a teenage mother does not immediately indicate a bad parent. A lot of these girls do it completely alone which for any Mother is very hard, and they do it well, so hats off to them.

tallaght01 wrote: »

the issue isn't just about how good a parent a teenager would be, but how it affects their life, through lack of educational and social opportunities etc.

I agree with you, but again I would say that, no matter what age you are when you become pregnant and have your first child, sacrifices of some kind have to be made. I am back in college now after 9 years of being away from it. My daughter is 2. I wouldn't class myself as coming from a well to do background at all, but I am managing it. Yes, a baby affects a teenage girls life, but it doesn't end it. Educational opportunities are always there if you want to take them - they don't go away. There should be more support for young parents, and access to support groups and schemes which encourage the parent to better themselves through education, training etc. is crucial.

Quality wrote: »

I think pregnancy will effect your life socially no matter what age you are.

It is sad when a young girl gets pregnant, I would not like to see my daughter as a young pregnant teen.

Life is a gift and should be embraced..

I would also prefer not to see my daughter as a teenage mother either, because it would press pause on her own development for a while, but if she did come to me as a teenager and tell me that she was pregnant, what's a parent to do? You can't turn your back on your child because they've done something to disappoint you. I'd hope for her to have some experience of adulthood by herself, to learn about who she is and what she wants from her life before she had children, because I think it would make her a better person, and ergo a better parent, in the long run.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

They should show images of crowning. Though might result in a general decline in population.

Crowning isn't that bad. Show them a placenta being delivered... now that's gross.

tallaght01

Quality and embee, I'm not sure exactly what points you're making.

If you're saying that teenage mums can be good parents....that's fine. Girls in their later teens can and do.

Girls who are 13, 14, 15 years old really really struggle with it, by and large. If they don't it's usually because their parents/relatives help them out (or do everything for the baby).

They bring their babies to kiddy A+E all the time. They really don't have a clue. The babies are filthy, obese and sitting in A+E with nothing more than a runny nose half the time. And God love them, how would they know any better? They're only children themselves.

There may be educational opportunities for them, that's true. My mum runs a creche where she looks after their kids. But, it's a couple of hours a few days a week. Certainly where I live it is. They can do an odd leaving cert subject. But at the rate the classes are thought, it would take them about 5 years to complete the leaving cert cycle.

Then they have to think about work. They have a kid, so they need to work. They're at work, so they can't attend classes etc etc.

The point I'm making is that I don't think teenage pregnancies are good for anyone.

The babies don't tend to be as well looked after. The mums themselves tend to struggle. The grannies end up doing a LOT of the work, even though they've already raised their babies. It also puts extra pressures on the grannies, in terms of the financial and time commitments.

Sure a teenager can make a god parent. But these pragnancies are usually accidental. There's a good reason both of you said you wouldn't want to see your daughter as a pregnant teenager.