Best time to use Whey Protein

Gavin "shels"

So invested in 900g of whey protein today and was wondering whats the bets time to take it, with your brekkie, after your work-out, dinner, etc...

BossArky

Gavin shels wrote: »

whats the bets time to take it

Bring it to the gym in a shaker (dry). Fill it up with water and shake / mix as you are leaving. Drink immediately. This is the best time to take it.

If you don't eat much in the mornings then that would be the second best time.

juanveron45

I suppose after your workout is the best time with some fast digesting carbs like 2 bananas

But you should be eating a good serving of protein 5-6 times a day so you can substitue whey for anytime you don have time to eat eggwhites,chicken,beef, fish or cottage cheese

Cottage cheese is best before bed as its casein protein and has a slow transit time from your stomach and provide you with nutrients for the nighttime fast

Gavin "shels"

I'd eat food with protein about 4-5 times a day, being in school doesn't help as I can't eat or drink during class.

Gavin "shels"

I ain't in the gym, my exercises would be done either in my house or my mates house (he has a multi-gym bench).

BossArky

Well then bring it to you mates house if you are planning a workout.

Gavin "shels"

So your saying directly after a workout?

Arsenal1986

yeah directly after a workout preferably with some simple carbs, this will help the protein get into ur muscles faster....some dextrose or malodextrin are best ie powerade type things can get cheap in holland and barret 3 quid for 500 grammes i think.....

juanveron45

yes and blend it up with a banana or 2 ,carbs are very important after your workout

fatal

RAM is considered a very good post workout shake.It contains both carbs and protein in a 2:1 ratio i believe

P-mac

Would people recommend RAM as the best protein shake or would something like Whey be better?

pwd

The protein in RAM is whey afaik.
It is whey cheaper to make your own PWO drink.

BossArky

Gavin shels wrote: »

So your saying directly after a workout?

Yes, have your protein soon as possible after you are finished the workout. Ideally within 30 minutes if you are stuck. I'm sure one of the other kind folk here will dig out the reasons for that time constraint.

wahlrab

juanveron45 wrote: »

I suppose after your workout is the best time with some fast digesting carbs like 2 bananas

But you should be eating a good serving of protein 5-6 times a day so you can substitue whey for anytime you don have time to eat eggwhites,chicken,beef, fish or cottage cheese

Cottage cheese is best before bed as its casein protein and has a slow transit time from your stomach and provide you with nutrients for the nighttime fast

there's only one problem with eating cheese before you go to bed and that is that you are more likely to have nightmares

rubadub

pwd wrote: »

It is whey cheaper to make your own PWO drink.

LOL, true too, also I prefer the PWO excuse to stock up on simple carbs, like some sweets, or extra maple syrup or juices.

RAM has the sugar already added, so cant be removed if you dont want it. I add plain whey to all sorts of stuff, like oats & pancakes. Also since you are not buying RAM and a separate protein powder you make even more savings, as you buy 1 bigger tub and save on it that way. i.e. generally the bigger the pack, the less cost per unit weight.

only one problem with eating cheese before you go to bed and that is that you are more likely to have nightmares

especially if you think it will. I never get nightmares from it.

I got avanmore slimline cheese slices yesterday, 8% fat, and 30 or 31% protein. Not too bad, if a little dry, but I like old dried up cheese.

Roper

Whoah!

You're in school and you're bothering with dietary supplementation... one word: Stop. Just go and eat some more stuff as has been mentioned above. You are drinking really expensive milk, that is all.

You have just invested money (which, if I remember being in school correctly, is in short supply no? ) in something which you don't know how to use. Would you buy any other product without researching the benefits/drawbacks? I don't think so.

Whey is safe of course and there's no real drawbacks other than the expense. But at your age you should be just eating more and getting the nutritional benefits of food.

Since you've already bought it though, stick it in the bomb shelter- it keeps for ages and you never know!

Khannie

rubadub wrote: »

also I prefer the PWO excuse to stock up on simple carbs, like some sweets, or extra maple syrup or juices.

+1. Biccies for me.

Fanfan

BossArky wrote: »

Yes, have your protein soon as possible after you are finished the workout. Ideally within 30 minutes if you are stuck. I'm sure one of the other kind folk here will dig out the reasons for that time constraint.

I normally do cardio after my weights then go for a swim which would be over a half an hour so should I drink the shake straight after I do weights in the gym then go do my cardio?

juanveron45

there's only one problem with eating cheese before you go to bed and that is that you are more likely to have nightmares

That is a myth

Gavin "shels"

Roper wrote: »

Whoah!

You're in school and you're bothering with dietary supplementation... one word: Stop. Just go and eat some more stuff as has been mentioned above. You are drinking really expensive milk, that is all.

You have just invested money (which, if I remember being in school correctly, is in short supply no? ) in something which you don't know how to use. Would you buy any other product without researching the benefits/drawbacks? I don't think so.

Whey is safe of course and there's no real drawbacks other than the expense. But at your age you should be just eating more and getting the nutritional benefits of food.

Since you've already bought it though, stick it in the bomb shelter- it keeps for ages and you never know!

Expensive milk? Whey Protein contains approx. 17g of protein per 25g whereas "Supermilk" contains only 3.4g in 100ml?

Money wouldn't be much of a hurdle, well not €17.99.

And I eat a hell of a lot, most very nutritional. Obviously at 17 I have to have the odd soft drink, chocolate bar, take-away, odd can of beer, etc... but the reason I got Whey Protein is my protein intake in a day isn't enough and I feel a scoop of 25g a day will do me good.

Hanley

Gavin shels wrote: »

Expensive milk? Whey Protein contains approx. 17g of protein per 25g whereas "Supermilk" contains only 3.4g in 100ml?

Money wouldn't be much of a hurdle, well not €17.99.

And I eat a hell of a lot, most very nutritional. Obviously at 17 I have to have the odd soft drink, chocolate bar, take-away, odd can of beer, etc... but the reason I got Whey Protein is my protein intake in a day isn't enough and I feel a scoop of 25g a day will do me good.

There's more to building muscle than just eating protein.

Gavin "shels"

Hanley wrote: »

There's more to building muscle than just eating protein.

I'm well aware of what protein does and am well aware of there's more to building muscle than just eating protein.

Hanley

Gavin shels wrote: »

I'm well aware of what protein does and am well aware of there's more to building muscle than just eating protein.

Why get so touchy over Roper's comments then?

Dragan

Hanley wrote: »

Why get so touchy over Roper's comments then?

And why do you even care if he is touchy over them? It's not something you said to him.

Leave it be, will ya?

Cheers.

t-ha

rubadub wrote: »

I got avanmore slimline cheese slices yesterday, 8% fat, and 30 or 31% protein. Not too bad, if a little dry, but I like old dried up cheese.

Weight-watchers cheese = protein supplement.
:cool:

rubadub

t-ha wrote: »

Weight-watchers cheese = protein supplement.
:cool:

Yeah pretty much! I am interested in how people define what is a supplement and what is "normal", is there a certain cut-off point in peoples minds? e.g. once cheese drops below 10% fat and above 30% protein does it suddenly become a supplement, and the devils food in the eyes of Joe Duffy

Not having a go, but even the OP said he "invested" in some protein. I eat more chicken than I used to as a protein source, that much chicken was not part of my old diet so is it now being supplemented by it, saying I invested in 2 kilos of chicken doesnt sound right!

A mate bought some protein and is always going on about how best to eat it, as though it is a drug or something, and other mates warned him off it, again as though it was a drug, yet the same lads were recommending glucose gel packs!:rolleyes:

I have said in a few threads that I like whey in food, so it is now in my normal diet, and as such it would not be defined as a supplement by some peoples definitions. Likewise in a thread I was saying fruit juice could be considered a supplement since some people would not ordinarily have drank it, and might only have it PWO as a simple carb source, in which case supplementing their normal diet with processed concentrated carbs. I still maintain that if most people mixed whey with water to use on cereal and if milk was usually only sold in BBer nutrition type shops that milk would be considered a supp, and whey would be "normal food".

Roper

Look, the lad is 17, if you want to recommend that a 17 year old moves away from whole food sources and "needs" more protein off you go.

It has nothing to do with alarmism or the potential for harm, just allowing a kid's body to develop normally with a SUSTAINABLE diet mad eof whole foods.

Define supplement? Not whole food. Rubabdub, your contention that extra chicken somehow constitutes dietary supplementation is off the mark. You're just eating more of what's good for you. And the OP is not using whey on his cereal or as a dairy replacement (I know I know) but as a workout tool.

I'll be as frank as I wanted to be in my first post because the things grown legs: If a 17 year old kid came up to me in my gym and asked what the OP asked I'd say "I hope you have your receipt. Come back to me when you're training 6 sessions a week and have exhausted all dietary avenues. THEN I'll give you some supplement advice"

But hey supplements are the new thing right? New Years resolution- get fit- okay better get my creatine in then... after that I might think about doing a workout.

I'm cranky tonight...

RandolphEsq

juanveron45 wrote: »

That is a myth

I'll prove you wrong; I'm going to make a cheese sandwich and then head to bed

EDIT: Success! I woke up crying during the night because I had a dream that my dead dog came back to life but was possessed so I had to catch her and kill her

Hanley

Roper wrote: »

Look, the lad is 17, if you want to recommend that a 17 year old moves away from whole food sources and "needs" more protein off you go.

It has nothing to do with alarmism or the potential for harm, just allowing a kid's body to develop normally with a SUSTAINABLE diet mad eof whole foods.

Define supplement? Not whole food. Rubabdub, your contention that extra chicken somehow constitutes dietary supplementation is off the mark. You're just eating more of what's good for you. And the OP is not using whey on his cereal or as a dairy replacement (I know I know) but as a workout tool.

I'll be as frank as I wanted to be in my first post because the things grown legs: If a 17 year old kid came up to me in my gym and asked what the OP asked I'd say "I hope you have your receipt. Come back to me when you're training 6 sessions a week and have exhausted all dietary avenues. THEN I'll give you some supplement advice"

But hey supplements are the new thing right? New Years resolution- get fit- okay better get my creatine in then... after that I might think about doing a workout.

I'm cranky RIGHT tonight...

There... I fixed it for ya

A 17 year old picking whey over milk is just stupid, IMO, of course. Fair enough if the person in question is a top level athlete who knows what they're doing and has exhausted all other options, but I don't think that's the case here.

I think it really shows who the real coaches are when topics like this come up.

Dragan

Hanley wrote: »

I think it really shows who the real coaches are when topics like this come up.

Personally i'd be more inclined to listen to a sports nutritionist over a coach on such matters ( no offense to any coaches ) but thats just me.

If it makes anyone feel any better or worse the last 3 sports nutritionists i have had this conversation with all agree with Roper.

As would I.

Get your goals right, get your work in the gym or on the field or wherever you need to be working right, get your food right.

Then see what needs doing.

rubadub

Roper wrote: »

Define supplement? Not whole food. Rubabdub, your contention that extra chicken somehow constitutes dietary supplementation is off the mark. You're just eating more of what's good for you. And the OP is not using whey on his cereal or as a dairy replacement (I know I know) but as a workout tool.

The chicken remark was just me being facetious. Fruit juices would fall under your definition of supplement. And there is no need for fruit juice in a diet, and some will take it in the same was as protein powder, as a PWO drink, others just like it. I seem to be the odd one out that actually likes whey powder as a food.

A 17 year old picking whey over milk is just stupid, IMO, of course.

But if he is simply doing it out of preference of taste I see no real problem, but as Roper said it is being considered a "workout tool", and some have this idea that it is some magic I love whey in my milkshakes with milk, it thickens it up and tastes good. If I was to stop weight training I would continue to eat/drink it since I like it. I also find it is a good appetite suppresant and helped me avoid overeating when I first was attempting to lose fat.

Hanley

rubadub wrote: »

But if he is simply doing it out of preference of taste I see no real problem, but as Roper said it is being considered a "workout tool", and some have this idea that it is some magic I love whey in my milkshakes with milk, it thickens it up and tastes good. If I was to stop weight training I would continue to eat/drink it since I like it. I also find it is a good appetite suppresant and helped me avoid overeating when I first was attempting to lose fat.

He's not doing it out of taste preference. He explicitly says he's doing it because he wants an extra 25g of protein. I really fail to see the need for protein supplementation at that level. Honestly, in the last 6 motnhs I've used protein for maybe 2 weeks out of that time, purely because I wanted to take in exttra protein without having to deal with carbs or fat since I was trying to drop some kg's. Hell I haven't even been using a PWO shake for the last 3 months and I'm still growing and getting stronger.

EDIT: And I'd be quite happy to listen to a sports nutritionist on this but there isn't one on the board is there? Next best choice is somone who coaches kids and has seen results first hand, if one of those wasn't around then I might start to think about listening to your average gym rat who's working off theory.

TerrorFirmer

What do you take pwo hanley?

Hanley

HavoK wrote: »

What do you take pwo hanley?

On the big days (squat and deadlift) it's normally about 1,000 to 1,400kcals worth of BK or MaccyD's, BUT there is ALOT of work done on those days. Other than that I'l grab a bottle of lucozade out of the gym and have a carb and protein meal when I get home 30-60 mins later.

Probably not the healthiest, but whatever. I peaked at 101kg and w/ bodyfat of around 17%. To be honest the reason I was eating so mcuh fast food was to just keep my weight up. It wasn't happening with clean sources. I'm actually down to 99kg at the moment and I plan on holding there til after the national champs.

I was surprised at how easy the weight came off actuaaly without much of a concious effort at all. I just planned meals and ate them. I had to start adding in snacks because I was in danger of losing too much weight, I've always found dieting easy. It just picking a plan and sticking too it like. It doesn't require that much dedication.

g'em

I'm no qualified sports nutritionist, I'm a lowly powlerlifter just like you Hanley, but logic, common sense and billions of dollars worth of research will tell you that eating junk food in that volume and that frequently will probably catch up with you sooner or later.

Edit: OP whey may or may not be warranted (although I'd tend to agree with Roper here - it's highly likely you'll be able to get yoru protien requirements from food alone) What's your normal daily diet like?

TerrorFirmer

Cool....I do think people rely too much on supplements, and they create a bit of a placebo effect that's hard to break...I do take protein supplements sometimes, but mainly because in certain times in college/work it's far easier to drink something in 10 seconds then find time to eat...

That said it can be hard to tell. I know someone who was lifting for about a year without supplements, but good diet. he did make gains, but nothing spectacular - he started taking supplements sometime between 6-8 months ago - and taking them heavily - reckon he eats at least 2 protein bars a day + shakes (about 120g of protein before any meat!), takes nitrogen tablets, etc - he's actually grown incredibly fast. He's increased his bench about 80kg in those six months and asthetically, made huge gains....(actually looks bigger in terms of muscle size and defintion then any picture I've seen here, very low BF as well)

Soooo....sometimes you do wonder. But I suppose everyone is different, too. I can't imagine too many people making the gains he has in the past six months and it all started when he started taking supplements. Of course, with that, his regime improved, but was always decent, he works in fitness anyway...

rubadub

Hanley wrote: »

He's not doing it out of taste preference. He explicitly says he's doing it because he wants an extra 25g of protein. I really fail to see the need for protein supplementation at that level.

Yep, I was agreeing with you, should have made it clearer when I said

but as Roper said it is being considered a workout tool

, I should have said HE considers it a workout tool. It is the same as the lads looking for pro weightlifting shoes to squat 60kg!

HavoK wrote: »

he started taking supplements sometime between 6-8 months ago -....., made huge gains....his regime improved, but was always decent, he works in fitness anyway...

You mentioned placebo yourself and it is powerful for many people. If you start taking supps you are likely to be taking the whole thing a bit more serious, may have cut down drinking too etc, all adds up.

TerrorFirmer

Actually, I know the person in question quite well, his lifestyle hasn't changed much apart from some fine tuning to his regime and a lot of supplements...definitely still enjoys a few pints

Hanley

g'em wrote: »

I'm no qualified sports nutritionist, I'm a lowly powlerlifter just like you Hanley, but logic, common sense and billions of dollars worth of research will tell you that eating junk food in that volume and that frequently will probably catch up with you sooner or later.

Edit: OP whey may or may not be warranted (although I'd tend to agree with Roper here - it's highly likely you'll be able to get yoru protien requirements from food alone) What's your normal daily diet like?

Meh. Maybe. But I'm improving from competition to competition so I must be doing something right. 2-3x a week is hardly going to kill someone. And when you compare to what normal people do, smoking and getting pissed (since july I've had 2 drinks) I'd definaely consider it the lesser of the 3 evils, and certainly less harmful that the afore mentioned.

Hanley

HavoK wrote: »

Cool....I do think people rely too much on supplements, and they create a bit of a placebo effect that's hard to break...I do take protein supplements sometimes, but mainly because in certain times in college/work it's far easier to drink something in 10 seconds then find time to eat...

That said it can be hard to tell. I know someone who was lifting for about a year without supplements, but good diet. he did make gains, but nothing spectacular - he started taking supplements sometime between 6-8 months ago - and taking them heavily - reckon he eats at least 2 protein bars a day + shakes (about 120g of protein before any meat!), takes nitrogen tablets, etc - he's actually grown incredibly fast. He's increased his bench about 80kg in those six months and asthetically, made huge gains....(actually looks bigger in terms of muscle size and defintion then any picture I've seen here, very low BF as well)

Soooo....sometimes you do wonder. But I suppose everyone is different, too. I can't imagine too many people making the gains he has in the past six months and it all started when he started taking supplements. Of course, with that, his regime improved, but was always decent, he works in fitness anyway...

Hmmm... I do wonder. Not about supplements tho. What's he benching now and what sort of weight gain has he seen in those 6 months?

Roper

Havok,
Don't mean to be a skeptic (okay, I do) but- 80kgs increase in his bench in 6 months? Most serious lifters I know would have trouble putting another 10kgs on in the same time period. You said he was a serious trainer before, so I'd have to assume he had a decent bench already.

Roper

LOL at myself and Hanley NOT asking a certain question!

Hanley

Roper wrote: »

LOL at myself and Hanley NOT asking a certain question!

Haha lol indeed.

As a point of reference, I've discussed this with several powerlifters before who I know personally. The general opinion is that oyu're looking at around a 20% increase in strength while taking supplements.

80kg one's bench is possible. Highly unlikely in anyone with a decent bench already tho.

g'em

Hanley wrote: »

Meh. Maybe. But I'm improving from competition to competition so I must be doing something right. 2-3x a week is hardly going to kill someone. And when you compare to what normal people do, smoking and getting pissed (since july I've had 2 drinks) I'd definaely consider it the lesser of the 3 evils, and certainly less harmful that the afore mentioned.

Absolutely, and you have the benefit of youth on your side

Out of sheer curiosity, and go on, be really honest - when you lose weight are you finding any "stubborn tummy fat" at all? Or do you find your chest/ neck get a little bloaty?

One of the side-effects of eating all that junk is likely to result in a higher than normal storage of white adipose tissue - the fat we can't 'see' that cushions our organs. I know myself this is something I'm finding increasingly apparent as a combination of getting older and the long-term effects of crappy eating habits in my early twenties (and probably from my fluctuating weight coming on/ going off rapid weight loss before competitions?). I'd be interested to know is that something you experience too?

Just something to ponder!

TerrorFirmer

I'm not sure on his exact bench but the last time I trained with him he was close gripping 100kg. So I'd say he's doing 130-140 anyway? I remember training with him about 8 months ago and we were both doing sets of 55kg. In comparison, I'm only at about 90kg 1RM now.

Obviously, an 80kg increase from 55 to 120-130 isn't unheard of, but in six months is it incredible improvement especially when he was only at 55 after a far longer period in non supplemented training prior to that. Also, when I said he was into fitness, it was more in the keep fit sense rather then bulking up, though he did always strive to be stronger, just not with the dedicated intention of adding the muscle mass.

Don't worry about being sceptical, it's not me we're talking about! I was gobsmacked when I saw him myself (hadn't seen him over summer). Again, whatever about his lifting stats, he's put on so much muscle - and not even a pick of fat. I suppose if you look at Michael Cravez'z last photos on team test - he looks a bit like that, actually, maybe bigger arms and slightly wider shoulders (though his backs not as good) - and remember, this is all in the space of about 6 months he's packed that on.

Regarding exactly what sort of supplements he's taking, he has been offered the bad stuffs and refused (has mentioned it), is a v. sensible person in that regard and specifically dislikes the idea of such - I'd imagine he is not taking anything illegal, but then again of course you could never guarantee that.

edit: forgot to add - he is about 1.8-2 stone heavier, and it has to be pure muscle as he's got low bf, about 31" waist I'd say

Roper

Hanley wrote: »

Haha lol indeed.

As a point of reference, I've discussed this with several powerlifters before who I know personally. The general opinion is that oyu're looking at around a 20% increase in strength while taking supplements.

80kg one's bench is possible. Highly unlikely in anyone with a decent bench already tho.

So basically, since we're NOT talking about something else , the guy would want to have been benching 40kgs to hit a 120kgs 6 months later. I would say that's possible. 60-140? Eh, maybe. 70-150, I think we're in phenom country there, and anything over that is likely to be "the other" thing.

Okay NOT training as a powerlifter, I put on 10kgs in 3 months to my bench last year from 80-90kgs 1RM. That was tough. Maybe training for that I could have had much more success but I dunno. I was just using a PWO shake at that time.


Edit cos Havok replied- Yes he had a poor bench to begin with so I think it's less of a case of supplements doing their magic and a guy just dedicating himself to benching. Placebos FTW!

TerrorFirmer

While I still think it's an incredibly good increase (I'm pretty sure most people take much longer to get up to 130-140kg benches) , what surprises me much more is his actual physical condition. I've never, ever imagine it possible for someone to pack that much muscle on in 6 months. Do you not find it unusual?

Ah, doesn't really matter anyway....no big deal. Was just my take on supplements vs natural protein sources.

Hanley

With a 31 inch waist I can't see him carrying THAT much muscle. How heavy and how tall is he?

rubadub

Hanley wrote: »

With a 31 inch waist I can't see him carrying THAT much muscle. How heavy and how tall is he?

People can mean different things by "waist". I measured last night at am 33" around where my belt would go. I am 31" at my slimmest point, above my belly button, think thats where women measure?. While 33" at the belt I can fit in 30" jeans, and many people go by jean size numbers as they do not measure themselves often. But I would presume Havok is talking of measured belt size area.

Hanley

Possibly... The reason I ask is because if that area's small and someone looks highly muscular there's a large chance they just have a small bone structure. The small the joints , the fuller the muscles will look. Even tho someone with large joints might be carrying more muscle.

Small joints and long muscle bellys which insert as close to the joint as possible can make someone look MUCH bigger than they actually are. Frank Zane would be a great example here.

hardtrainer

To the OP, best time to take your protein shake is after workout really, thats when the benefit is greatest and you can get more than enough protein during the rest of the day from whole foods.
As has been said by plenty of people already, I really don't think you need to be taking a whey supp now. Really, by and large, most people who go to the gym don't need to think about whey supps.

For younger guys especially, you can get all the protein you need from whole foods and especially in the teens, the extra cals from whole foods will work wonders if you're putting the effort in at the gym.

In terms of the guy Havok was talking about, it's perfectly doable. I think adding a massive amount to your bench is fine, so is adding lots to you squat or DL, but adding lots to everything is more difficult. If anyone, especially someone coming from a point where they're not really lifting what they could be, puts real effort into adding weight to a particular exercise, they can do it really quickly and make great gains. The problem comes then when you change your focus to a different body part, it's difficult to maintain those strength gains in the first area. Thats part of the reason why to serious lifters, adding 10kg to a max lift in 1 to 3 months is more realistic, coz they're adding weight to all their lifts.
I really don't think taking supplements has been the main reason that the guy added so much mass. I think, especially since he works in the fitness industry, he's probably just gotten a lot more focused with his workouts and the supps are just a symptom of that.

Regarding hanelys eating habits, I wouldn't be too concerned really, apart from the salt, but most of the chains are trying to drop the salt in their food now. The old thinking was that saturated fats in the diet led to more visceral fat, the dangerous stuff, but more recently it's looking like a diet very high in sugar is more dangerous. When the body makes fat from excess carbs, particularly lots of fast sugars, the fat tends to be stored around the organs.
If you listen to any of the really big big guys, they all eat calorie laden food and lots of it, it's the only way to get the calories in. I lost almost 5 kg in december because I was drinking when I should have been eating. And I wasn't shy about having a kebab and chips after drinking every night. MacDonalds isn't ideal, but if you're just after the gym and you're starving, 5 cheeseburgers really fills a gap and gives you plenty of calories for your muscles to start growing. It's just not something that people should do unless they're at that stage where they're having trouble keeping their weight gains.