Why can't Ireland do this ??

fallout_girl

don't think this is down to the gardi "not giving a crap". when I hear in the news today that the killer of an 11 year old boy on cork gets sentenced to only 4 years and freed even earlier, then I think it is the justice system that is in dire need of an overhaul...

JimiTime

Terry wrote: »

Would you care to expand on that case of human error,

I'll detail my first hand experiences with Gards. I'll leave out 2nd and 3rd hand stories.

1) 7 guys assault this one guy outside a chipper in Dollymount. I am accross the road trying to hail a taxi. 2 of my friends go into the chipper to get water and tissue for the assaulted guy. Police show up, I'm accross the road, my 2 friends are helping the guy, and the police arrest the three of us, saying we'd been identified. 'All' of the attackers were still in the vicinity, but we are the only 3 arrested.

2) A few scumbags are throwing stones at my widowed sisters house. Her son is terrified, she's not much better. Myself and a friend go to local station which is literally 400 yards from my sisters house to report it. The response was in a very disinterested fashion, 'the van is going around so if its in the area we'll check it out'. Why don't you walk around you lazy fecker! In a scenario like this you feel that there is nothing you can do but take the law into your own hands!

3) After just parking the car, myself and a friend are walking up the hill at Christchurch in Dublin. There is a guard ahead of us. A call comes on his radio that there is a woman being assaulted at Jury's Inn, just at the top of the hill we're on. We overtook him and he was about 100 yards behind us when we got to the top!

4) I'm busking as a 16 year old with a friend who was only 13. A guard pulls up and grinding his teeth he says 'Get off this f*ckin street or I'll take them f*ckin guitars'. He was a nasty piece of work!

5) I'm going for luch one day, and by the boardwalk in town, there is a collection of Junkies. Openly passing substances around, and being quite loud about it. Garda just floats past, doesn't say a word. I end up on Grafton St for lunch, and after finishing I'm heading back. Low and behold the Garda and another are hassling a busker. I mean, what the??

6) A junkie is dealing on the island at O'Connell bridge, while a Garda is directing traffic. The Garda see's him, but does nothing! Doesn't call it in even.

Now, I understand the arguement that the justice system is an ass etc. However, that does not remove the responsabilities from a Garda to do his job. Even if its frustrating for them to see little scummers just get let off. Their job is to arrest those people breaking the law and protect those keeping it. I know Garda's, I've told the busker/junkie story, and he quite plainly said that Junkies are just too much hassle. The Garda cannot just wash themselves of blame and say its because of the courts! I know a few London Met officers, they have similar problems in their legal system, but they are not as disinterested. Yes they are frustrated, but they do their job.

or do you want Robocop policing our streets?

If Robocop was available, damn right I would! Our Garda, are for whatever reason, lazy and disinterested in my experience.

BigEejit

I think the OP's story was just a kind of heart warming story for xmas, I just cant see them doing that for every assault? can you? (cctv footage or no)

I believe that the UK is as bad as Ireland for not having enough prison spaces and criminals who did nasty things getting short or suspended sentences is par for the course. Like ireland, very little or nothing at all appears to be done about it. A few hundred extra prison places isnt enough, tens of thousands is whats required.

I remember watching a documentary about the american system and they found that when they didnt have enough prison spaces and criminals were getting suspended or short sentences that crime levels were much higher because habitual criminals were on the street for much more time. This meant that judges has less time for each case and they also had to give shorter sentences due to overcrowding. ... so they contracted out a lot of the prison places and when capacity grew they found that crime levels dropped significantly.

They have been talking about prison ships over here but there havent been any developments that I have heard of. Pity. Prison ships and hard labour would be a deterrent, 10c an hour for collecting rubbish beside a motorway would put off many a skanger.

Dyr

Most of the gardai you see in the street look like they're one step below a security guy in the ilac centre. Trousers too long for their short arses, uniform not properly ironed, cap resting at a jaunty angle, mobile glued to the hand. God be with the days when they looked like they were useful for something. A

nd as for the pairs of (shhh) ban gardai you see roaming around....

KTRIC

KTRIC wrote: »

My point is why can't this happen in Ireland ?, crimes like this go unreported and uninvestigated all the time in Ireland because the Gardai just don't give a sh!t.

Do you not read the newspapers?

4 years for killin Robert Holohan?


a 1% conviction rate for rape?


1 in ten rape cases not reported?


Its a little bit more than the Gardai not caring, the whole system is screwed, its breeds contempt

Senna

Deleted User wrote: »

the whole system is screwed, its breeds contempt

+1

In many serious cases that come to court, you regularly hear that the accused has 20/30/40+ previous convictions.
That say it all about the system.
If i was a garda and worked hard to catch criminals, but the feckers get off anyway, i'd stop trying soon enough.

JimiTime

Senna wrote: »

+1

In many serious cases that come to court, you regularly hear that the accused has 20/30/40+ previous convictions.
That say it all about the system.

Indeed it does.

If i was a garda and worked hard to catch criminals, but the feckers get off anyway, i'd stop trying soon enough.

But they are not paid to convict criminals. They are paid to protect the citizens of this country from law breakers. No matter what one can say about the state of the court system, that does not excuse a Garda from not doing their job. If they are finding that the system is letting the people down, then they should make noise about it. If it's still in the sh1t, then they should make more noise about it. In the meantime, they should continue to do what the taxpayer pays them for. Fair enough, they can have a whinge, but they are in a position where they have not got the luxery of not caring! Its got to a stage now, where the scumbags know the Guards are useless, so they break the law in plain view. They should be arresting these feckers anyway, even if they will be let off. They need to hassle and irritate them, and charge them where they can. This means that if they commit a crime deemed worthy of proper prosecution, they have a list of offences against them as a charachter witness. But I'm sure The Guards just want to clock in and clock out like the rest of us. It should be a vocation, but to most its just a socialclub. I've been told as much from the horses mouth! They need a complete overhall from the top down. Will it happen? No.

thebiggestjim

andy1249 wrote: »

This smacks to me of seeing the grass greener on the other side of the fence , I was in Munich a couple of years ago and there was a lot of Skinheads/National socialist gangs around , who beat anyone of Jewish/Racial extraction and were by and large tolerated by the cops to certain degree , you need to open your eyes a bit more and stop being so critical of your home , most places have their own problems , Germany too.

Its easy to have rose tinted spectacles on when your abroad , I personally believe the cops here do what they can , its peoples tolerance for this type of thing in general that hobble police efforts , mostly through lack of reporting and all that.

I lived in Munich for a year and a half and have been all around the city. The only place I ran into Skinheads/National socialist gangs was at a football match and I can tell you the cops didn't tolerate them that day. Its the most peaceful city I have ever been in. You couldn't get mugged if you tried.

KTRIC

thebiggestjim wrote: »

I lived in Munich for a year and a half and have been all around the city. The only place I ran into Skinheads/National socialist gangs was at a football match and I can tell you the cops didn't tolerate them that day. Its the most peaceful city I have ever been in. You couldn't get mugged if you tried.

Very true. I didn't reply to his post because it was complete rubbish. They must be doing something right here to have the low crime rate. I don't understand why the Gardai can't enfoce the same level of policing.

keen

csm wrote: »

chicken and egg situation. Do Gardai do nothing because people don't report it, or do people avoid reporting it because the Gardai will do nothing?

I reported crimes to Garda on more then one occasion in the past resulting in nothing being done about it so I don't waste my time ringing anymore.

Only if I have to have something in writing will I call, if the house gets robbed again I will give them a bell so it's all legit I'd have no faith in them catching the scum though that one seems to really puzzle them.

biko

Terry wrote: »

We should be more like the Germans.

We should be more like the Japanese. Safest country in the world, if your woman doesn't mind getting groped on the subway.

AARRRGH

Germany is a better country than Ireland. That's the answer.

ejmaztec

I think that the Germans have more respect for authority figures, rules and regulations etc... Ireland is a bit more Dodge City, without the guns.

the_syco

KTRIC wrote: »

In a nice area in North East Munich (Arabella Park) an old man was set upon by two youths and given a bit of a kicking.

<snip>

The whole fiasco ended with the two scumbags being caught and sentenced to a few years in jail

In this country, the youths would've gotten a slap, and the old dude would find a few of his windows smashed a few days later.

At least here, you can talk about history: the good and the bad. Pick the wrong topic in Germany, and you may face jail.

We need better laws. Someone said that the police didn't take any ****: here, if the police did the same, they'd get blasted by the lefties, and sacked.

peasant

Two main reasons why German policing might be that bit more effective:

1) German law is different.
You don't get to see a judge and jury some three years after committing the offence, who make up the law as they go along. Instead there is a "catalogue" that lists the offence and the according punishment.
For very minor offences (most traffic offences for example), the police writes you your ticket on the spot ...you pay within a few days and that's that ...no judge involved (unless you feel you absolutely must dipute the accusation, but that can get very expensive very quickly)
Slightly higher up the scale you do get to see a judge (no jury), once your guilt is proven he then fairly quickly sentences you to somewhere between the min and max outlined for your particular offence in the "catalogue".
High courts then have several judges and more room for maneuvre in regards to sentencing.
One look at the German law books will tell you what sentence every offence carries and what "price" you will pay, should you get caught.

2) German police is (and alway was) armed


But there is a cultural difference as well. Germans love rules ...even to such an extent that they "enforce" them themselves when the police isn't around. By that I don't mean "vigilante justice" but for example people that have nothing to do all day but stand behind twitching curtains and report their neighbours or passers by who just parked on the double yellow line or put some bio-mass into the recycling bin or mowed their lawn outside the permitted times or whatever :rolleyes:

Dyr

German cops not taking any sh*t..never bring bats to a gunfight


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXNqJSTv1BQ

marcsignal

KTRIC wrote: »

Over the Christmas period in Germany a story made the 6 O'Clock news that if it happened in Ireland would go unreported.

The whole fiasco ended with the two scumbags being caught and sentenced to a few years in jail

The 2 scumbags were, in fact, a Greek and a Turk. It's very unusual, and often forbidden, for German Media to mention such things, because believe it or not, it's actually very PC here.

Their excuse for kicking the sh1t out of the old guy, was that they were drunk, and that he should have known better than to provoke them. At least they got what they deserved

peasant wrote: »

But there is a cultural difference as well. Germans love rules ...even to such an extent that they "enforce" them themselves when the police isn't around. By that I don't mean "vigilante justice" but for example people that have nothing to do all day but stand behind twitching curtains and report their neighbours or passers by who just parked on the double yellow line or put some bio-mass into the recycling bin or mowed their lawn outside the permitted times or whatever :rolleyes:

That is true here, your neighbour (who will say hello every morning), will also report you, if you let your car tax (or equivalent) run over a few weeks.

galwayrush

In Ireland, some people would probably blame the old man for getting himself hurt by upsetting the Yobs.

Seriously, heart-warming story:cool:

Jackus

There is another tread on this forum about this problem.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055111337&page=9&highlight=scumbags
Let me just paste my opinion about it:

From a foreiginer's distance I see the sources of scumbag - problem.
1. Too much of social welfare for scumbags (I'd love to have this amount!)
2. You can't do anything if a kid abuses You or do anything bad (destroys property, car, bus etc.)
3. Gardai doesn't carry guns wchich is just funny for most of foreigners. (People in my country recon that is not true, but just a joke).
4. We should be in touch with neighbours, don't be anonymous.
5. Kids. What about jails (reformatory) for kids?
6. Self defence things such as pepper spray, CS gas, tasser should be allowed as in most countries.

I know that most of it is up to government, but we, as normal people, should stay together against anti - social behaviour! Get to know Your neighbour, meet them and discuss.
Be a role model for others. Anybdy tell me why people throw rubbish on the streets, out of cars, buses? Ask marcsignal what happens if you do that in Germany.
My advice: start travel and see how Ireland (and as I heard UK as well) is away behind other western - europe (not only western-europe) countries!
Yes, Ireland is rich now, but life is not only about money!! C'mon! people! Don't destroy beautiful place - Ireland!

marcsignal

Jigsaw wrote: »

I, for one, would almost be in favour or pre-emptive beatings.

Jeasus ! "Jigsaw" Steady On There ?

ThE_IVIAcIVIAIV

im just back in ireland after living in amsterdam and they seem to be way ahead of ireland in certain areas, some things are as simple as having a divider in the supermarket checkout, where your food products slide down so you don't have to rush as much to grab ur stuff and f**k it into your bags and pay. so much easier. i could list lots of things but im too lazy now as its 4 am.

Loveless

monosharp wrote: »

I'm in Asia at the moment and such a thing (knackers attacking someone older) would be practically unheard of (in Korea). They have enormous respect for elders drilled into them.

And they eat dogs.

monosharp

Loveless wrote: »

And they eat dogs.

Your point ? They also eat live octopuss and its delicious. Their food choice is 1000 times better then ours, our food is mostly complete crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFSIY7HQL1Q