Why can't Ireland do this ??

KTRIC

Over the Christmas period in Germany a story made the 6 O'Clock news that if it happened in Ireland would go unreported.

In a nice area in North East Munich (Arabella Park) an old man was set upon by two youths and given a bit of a kicking. Seemingly he complained about their smoking on the U-Bahn (underground system) and they followed him off the train and laid into him.

The video footage made it to the news the next evening and the police called a press conference and told the media that this sort of carry on won't be tollerated.

The whole fiasco ended with the two scumbags being caught and sentenced to a few years in jail and the old man being treated for some injuries in hospital.

My point is why can't this happen in Ireland ?, crimes like this go unreported and uninvestigated all the time in Ireland because the Gardai just don't give a sh!t.

LadyJ

KTRIC wrote: »

and the old man being treated to some injuries in hospital.

That doesn't sound like a treat!

goodlad

KTRIC wrote: »

My point is why can't this happen in Ireland ?, crimes like this go unreported and uninvestigated all the time in Ireland because the Gardai just don't give a sh!t.

You just answered your own question!

KTRIC

LadyJ wrote: »

That doesn't sound like a treat!

treat (trēt) Pronunciation Key
v. treat·ed, treat·ing, treats

v. tr.

1. To act or behave in a specified manner toward.
2. To regard and handle in a certain way. Often used with as: treated the matter as a joke.
3. To deal with in writing or speech; discuss: a book that treats all aspects of health care.
4. To deal with or represent artistically in a specified manner or style: treats the subject poetically.
5.
1. To provide with food, entertainment, or gifts at one's own expense: treated her sister to the theater.
2. To give (someone or oneself) something pleasurable: treated herself to a day in the country.
3. To give medical aid to (someone): treated many patients in the emergency room.
4. To give medical aid to counteract (a disease or condition): treated malaria with quinine.
6. To subject to a process, action, or change, especially to a chemical or physical process or application.
7.
1. To give medical aid to (someone): treated many patients in the emergency room.
2. To give medical aid to counteract (a disease or condition): treated malaria with quinine.

goodlad

KTRIC wrote: »

treat (trēt) Pronunciation Key
v. treat·ed, treat·ing, treats

v. tr.

1. To act or behave in a specified manner toward.
2. To regard and handle in a certain way. Often used with as: treated the matter as a joke.
3. To deal with in writing or speech; discuss: a book that treats all aspects of health care.
4. To deal with or represent artistically in a specified manner or style: treats the subject poetically.
5.
1. To provide with food, entertainment, or gifts at one's own expense: treated her sister to the theater.
2. To give (someone or oneself) something pleasurable: treated herself to a day in the country.
3. To give medical aid to (someone): treated many patients in the emergency room.
4. To give medical aid to counteract (a disease or condition): treated malaria with quinine.
6. To subject to a process, action, or change, especially to a chemical or physical process or application.
7.
1. To give medical aid to (someone): treated many patients in the emergency room.
2. To give medical aid to counteract (a disease or condition): treated malaria with quinine.

GTFO! :p:p:p

LadyJ

KTRIC wrote: »

treat (trēt) Pronunciation Key
v. treat·ed, treat·ing, treats

v. tr.

1. To act or behave in a specified manner toward.
2. To regard and handle in a certain way. Often used with as: treated the matter as a joke.
3. To deal with in writing or speech; discuss: a book that treats all aspects of health care.
4. To deal with or represent artistically in a specified manner or style: treats the subject poetically.
5.
1. To provide with food, entertainment, or gifts at one's own expense: treated her sister to the theater.
2. To give (someone or oneself) something pleasurable: treated herself to a day in the country.
3. To give medical aid to (someone): treated many patients in the emergency room.
4. To give medical aid to counteract (a disease or condition): treated malaria with quinine.
6. To subject to a process, action, or change, especially to a chemical or physical process or application.
7.
1. To give medical aid to (someone): treated many patients in the emergency room.
2. To give medical aid to counteract (a disease or condition): treated malaria with quinine.

It's just that when you're treated to something it is usually meant in a different way to being treated for something. It just sounded funny to me is all.

Ste.phen

LadyJ wrote: »

It's just that when you're treated to something it is usually meant in a different way to being treated for something. It just sounded funny to me is all.

+1.
The grammar is wrong, not the word 'treat'

whiskeyman

LadyJ wrote: »

It's just that when you're treated to something it is usually meant in a different way to being treated for something. It just sounded funny to me is all.

+1

It's clear that our pre-occupation with correct grammar, spelling and punctuation is greater than that of the social and moral breakdown of our society...

failsafe

Probably because there was a video of it. I'd say if there was a video/photographs of something similar happening here the media would pick up on it too.

pid()

LadyJ wrote: »

It's just that when you're treated to something it is usually meant in a different way to being treated for something. It just sounded funny to me is all.

LOL Lady, you got owned.

Kintarō Hattori

Everyone's going wayyy off topic here and its a shame OP as its a good point your making.

I agree too many of these types of crime go unreported and aren't investigated. We have become far too apatethic in our everyday lives.

View Profile

Well it probably wouldnt happen in Ireland because no one nowadays has the balls to tell two young lads to stop smoking on public transport as they know the little ****s will probably attack you and the Gardai wont be able to do anything.

goodlad

View Profile wrote: »

Well it probably wouldnt happen in Ireland because no one nowadays has the balls to tell two young lads to stop smoking on public transport as they know the little ****s will probably attack you and the Gardai wont be able to do anything.

Thats a really good point! its kinda sad that its true though! Most little ****ers with attitudes smoking on a bus or anything will just laugh in your face/ threaten or attack you if you open your mouth to them because they have completely no fear of and come back on there actions.

monosharp

View Profile wrote: »

Well it probably wouldnt happen in Ireland because no one nowadays has the balls to tell two young lads to stop smoking on public transport as they know the little ****s will probably attack you and the Gardai wont be able to do anything.

The gardai probably wouldn't do anything even if they could.

Heres something i posted on a different thread and I think its just as relevant here.

---

Irish culture. Lovely isn't it.

I'm in Asia at the moment and such a thing (knackers attacking someone older) would be practically unheard of (in Korea). They have enormous respect for elders drilled into them.

Kids here are NOT allowed to call their parents by their names, ever. You call your father "Father", your mother "Mother". You call your older brother "Older brother", you call your older sister "Older sister", you even call your younger siblings "younger sister/brother".

The whole language has a special ending for verbs for younger people then you, older and another for extremely polite (very old, high bosses etc).

They call their teachers "their-name teacher". Everyone you don't know who is older then you is a "Sir" (although it doesn't mean Sir in our sense, its just a polite way to refer to someone you don't know).

Its not just kids either, its everyone, the whole culture. One of the very first things they find out when they meet you is your age so they know how to talk to you (which verb ending).

Ok some people might think thats a bit crazy, I personally think its absolutely fantastic.

Heres another example, say your dating a girl here and you meet the parents. You call her da "girls name's father" and if he meets your da thats how he talks to him too "your name's father".

They have manners and the west don't. Did we ever have ?

LadyJ

Well, now that the hilarity is over, yeah German society is really very different to
Irish society. People think completely differently there.

I dunno. Ireland is just awful when it comes to crime. I got attacked in an ice-rink a few weeks ago by a kid who had already punched someone else beforehand and hadn't been thrown out. It's crazy.

Cathmandooo

Oh dear dont start the garda bashing again! Of course they give a ****! A lot of them (granted not all) are decent human beings, the problem is the system, right they catch these hooligans, throw them up before a judge the next day, the judge gives them a warning and sends them on their merry way, or its struck out cos someone put their names down wrong or some crap! Blame the system, and the government, and grammar

csm

pid() wrote: »

LOL Lady, you got owned.

Nope. To be treated to something means to be given a treat, to be treated for something means to be given medical attention. The mistake was in the preposition, not the word treat.

Back on topic. I think it has little to do with apathetic Gardai and more to do with an apathetic public. If there were public outrage at such things occuring then they would receive more media attention, but people just don't care as much anymore. if you saw it as a snippet in a paper would you protest about it or just say to yourself 'typical scumbags. I hate the way this happens in Ireland' and turn the page?

twenty8

Interesting point. However, you must consider why exactly the piece was on the news in the first place.

You are correct that that type of incident probably would not have gotten onto Irish news as it happens so frequently. So therefore you must conclude that it must not happen in Germany. However - that is not so.

I would presume that the reason that it is on the news in Germany is because of the newly implemented smoking ban. According to your note the fight followed a incident over smoking on a train. If this happened just when the smoking ban was introduced here I guarantee it would be exactly the same.

The media world that we all watch is very easily influenced and when you watch or listen to the news you should always ask yourself - why exactly is this piece newsworthy. Someone always has a vested interest.

KTRIC

twenty8 wrote: »

I would presume that the reason that it is on the news in Germany is because of the newly implemented smoking ban. According to your note the fight followed a incident over smoking on a train. If this happened just when the smoking ban was introduced here I guarantee it would be exactly the same.

This happened before the smoking ban came into effect. Infact it has always been illegal to smoke on the subway.

There was another case during christmas that sprung to mind with the same situation but this time it involved two little scumbags playing loud music from their Walkman phones. Old man complains and gets a kicking for his troubles.

andy1249

This smacks to me of seeing the grass greener on the other side of the fence , I was in Munich a couple of years ago and there was a lot of Skinheads/National socialist gangs around , who beat anyone of Jewish/Racial extraction and were by and large tolerated by the cops to certain degree , you need to open your eyes a bit more and stop being so critical of your home , most places have their own problems , Germany too.

Its easy to have rose tinted spectacles on when your abroad , I personally believe the cops here do what they can , its peoples tolerance for this type of thing in general that hobble police efforts , mostly through lack of reporting and all that.

csm

chicken and egg situation. Do Gardai do nothing because people don't report it, or do people avoid reporting it because the Gardai will do nothing?

csm

I should point out that on the whole I think the Gardai do a pretty good job, especially those on the ground. I think they are hamstrung by inefficient processes and a lack of manpower, with a lack of political will to do anything about it.

Which brings us back to where political will comes from: a mandate from the public. If we cared enough, we'd do something about it, but it's not high on the list of people's to-do list to protest about it.

goodlad

it reminds me of a few years ago i was in poland, everytime i walked past a police officer there my brain made me stand up straight, not curse and act like a robot, haha! there was just something about them. Tough looks ****ers with a gun and a baton and u well know they will smack the crap outa ya if u step outa like. A lot of scumbags here that are low enough to beat up an old person or even lesser crimes would just laugh in the face of a garda here. Lets face it, there not intimidating in the slightest!!

View Profile

In public the Gardai would be cautious about what they do to a scumbag but behind closed doors(of a Transit van) id say they'd happily give you a slap around.

Pherekydes

whiskeyman wrote: »

It's clear that our pre-occupation with correct grammar, spelling and punctuation is greater than that of the social and moral breakdown of our society...

The moral breakdown of our society is down to people not giving a sh!te about rules. It starts off with grammar rules, spelling rules and punctuation rules. Then, because people say nothing, it spreads to smoking on the bus/metro/luas rules, loitering on the corner rules, and very soon, the fabric of our society is torn to shreds. But, instead, people whinge about their grammar being corrected, and very soon, they're following old men that complained about their breaking 'no smoking rules' off trains and putting them in hospitals.

Jigsaw

It would be all very well for the Garda to give some wee sh1te a hiding but then afterwards some left wing gimp will be demanding a public enquiry that would costs thousands of taxpayers' euro and the Garda that carried out the hiding would be suspended from duty and possibly relieved from his position altogether.

I, for one, would almost be in favour or pre-emptive beatings. You know the little f**kers when you see them. Give them a hiding today because if they did nothing wrong today, you can be sure they did something wrong yesterday or will do something wrong tomorrow.

Sleepy

I'd personally love to see the cops given the power to met out beatings. I'm a relatively law abiding citizen so I'd have nothing to worry about.

Sleepy

Jigsaw wrote: »

It would be all very well for the Garda to give some wee sh1te a hiding but then afterwards some left wing gimp will be demanding a public enquiry that would costs thousands of taxpayers' euro and the Garda that carried out the hiding would be suspended from duty and possibly relieved from his position altogether.

I, for one, would almost be in favour or pre-emptive beatings. You know the little f**kers when you see them. Give them a hiding today because if they did nothing wrong today, you can be sure they did something wrong yesterday or will do something wrong tomorrow.

"Beat your wife every morning. If you don't know what she's done to deserve it, she does." ?

Terry

We should be more like the Germans.
One crime comitted there in an entire year, because the German justice system works.
Fair play to them.

JimiTime

Jigsaw wrote: »

It would be all very well for the Garda to give some wee sh1te a hiding but then afterwards some left wing gimp will be demanding a public enquiry that would costs thousands of taxpayers' euro and the Garda that carried out the hiding would be suspended from duty and possibly relieved from his position altogether.

I, for one, would almost be in favour or pre-emptive beatings. You know the little f**kers when you see them. Give them a hiding today because if they did nothing wrong today, you can be sure they did something wrong yesterday or will do something wrong tomorrow.

Obviously you never had any dealings with our police then. I have been arrested for assault, falsely of course. I know of so many cases of Garda negligence and plain stupidity, that I would be very reluctant to give them the power to do anything more than direct traffic!
On the flipside, I hate the scumbag problem, so whats to be done? I think its catch 22 tbh.

Terry

JimiTime wrote: »

Obviously you never had any dealings with our police then. I have been arrested for assault, falsely of course. I know of so many cases of Garda negligence and plain stupidity, that I would be very reluctant to give them the power to do anything more than direct traffic!
On the flipside, I hate the scumbag problem, so whats to be done? I think its catch 22 tbh.

Would you care to expand on that case of human error, or do you want Robocop policing our streets?

fallout_girl

don't think this is down to the gardi "not giving a crap". when I hear in the news today that the killer of an 11 year old boy on cork gets sentenced to only 4 years and freed even earlier, then I think it is the justice system that is in dire need of an overhaul...

JimiTime

Terry wrote: »

Would you care to expand on that case of human error,

I'll detail my first hand experiences with Gards. I'll leave out 2nd and 3rd hand stories.

1) 7 guys assault this one guy outside a chipper in Dollymount. I am accross the road trying to hail a taxi. 2 of my friends go into the chipper to get water and tissue for the assaulted guy. Police show up, I'm accross the road, my 2 friends are helping the guy, and the police arrest the three of us, saying we'd been identified. 'All' of the attackers were still in the vicinity, but we are the only 3 arrested.

2) A few scumbags are throwing stones at my widowed sisters house. Her son is terrified, she's not much better. Myself and a friend go to local station which is literally 400 yards from my sisters house to report it. The response was in a very disinterested fashion, 'the van is going around so if its in the area we'll check it out'. Why don't you walk around you lazy fecker! In a scenario like this you feel that there is nothing you can do but take the law into your own hands!

3) After just parking the car, myself and a friend are walking up the hill at Christchurch in Dublin. There is a guard ahead of us. A call comes on his radio that there is a woman being assaulted at Jury's Inn, just at the top of the hill we're on. We overtook him and he was about 100 yards behind us when we got to the top!

4) I'm busking as a 16 year old with a friend who was only 13. A guard pulls up and grinding his teeth he says 'Get off this f*ckin street or I'll take them f*ckin guitars'. He was a nasty piece of work!

5) I'm going for luch one day, and by the boardwalk in town, there is a collection of Junkies. Openly passing substances around, and being quite loud about it. Garda just floats past, doesn't say a word. I end up on Grafton St for lunch, and after finishing I'm heading back. Low and behold the Garda and another are hassling a busker. I mean, what the??

6) A junkie is dealing on the island at O'Connell bridge, while a Garda is directing traffic. The Garda see's him, but does nothing! Doesn't call it in even.

Now, I understand the arguement that the justice system is an ass etc. However, that does not remove the responsabilities from a Garda to do his job. Even if its frustrating for them to see little scummers just get let off. Their job is to arrest those people breaking the law and protect those keeping it. I know Garda's, I've told the busker/junkie story, and he quite plainly said that Junkies are just too much hassle. The Garda cannot just wash themselves of blame and say its because of the courts! I know a few London Met officers, they have similar problems in their legal system, but they are not as disinterested. Yes they are frustrated, but they do their job.

or do you want Robocop policing our streets?

If Robocop was available, damn right I would! Our Garda, are for whatever reason, lazy and disinterested in my experience.

BigEejit

I think the OP's story was just a kind of heart warming story for xmas, I just cant see them doing that for every assault? can you? (cctv footage or no)

I believe that the UK is as bad as Ireland for not having enough prison spaces and criminals who did nasty things getting short or suspended sentences is par for the course. Like ireland, very little or nothing at all appears to be done about it. A few hundred extra prison places isnt enough, tens of thousands is whats required.

I remember watching a documentary about the american system and they found that when they didnt have enough prison spaces and criminals were getting suspended or short sentences that crime levels were much higher because habitual criminals were on the street for much more time. This meant that judges has less time for each case and they also had to give shorter sentences due to overcrowding. ... so they contracted out a lot of the prison places and when capacity grew they found that crime levels dropped significantly.

They have been talking about prison ships over here but there havent been any developments that I have heard of. Pity. Prison ships and hard labour would be a deterrent, 10c an hour for collecting rubbish beside a motorway would put off many a skanger.

Dyr

Most of the gardai you see in the street look like they're one step below a security guy in the ilac centre. Trousers too long for their short arses, uniform not properly ironed, cap resting at a jaunty angle, mobile glued to the hand. God be with the days when they looked like they were useful for something. A

nd as for the pairs of (shhh) ban gardai you see roaming around....

KTRIC

KTRIC wrote: »

My point is why can't this happen in Ireland ?, crimes like this go unreported and uninvestigated all the time in Ireland because the Gardai just don't give a sh!t.

Do you not read the newspapers?

4 years for killin Robert Holohan?


a 1% conviction rate for rape?


1 in ten rape cases not reported?


Its a little bit more than the Gardai not caring, the whole system is screwed, its breeds contempt

Senna

Deleted User wrote: »

the whole system is screwed, its breeds contempt

+1

In many serious cases that come to court, you regularly hear that the accused has 20/30/40+ previous convictions.
That say it all about the system.
If i was a garda and worked hard to catch criminals, but the feckers get off anyway, i'd stop trying soon enough.

JimiTime

Senna wrote: »

+1

In many serious cases that come to court, you regularly hear that the accused has 20/30/40+ previous convictions.
That say it all about the system.

Indeed it does.

If i was a garda and worked hard to catch criminals, but the feckers get off anyway, i'd stop trying soon enough.

But they are not paid to convict criminals. They are paid to protect the citizens of this country from law breakers. No matter what one can say about the state of the court system, that does not excuse a Garda from not doing their job. If they are finding that the system is letting the people down, then they should make noise about it. If it's still in the sh1t, then they should make more noise about it. In the meantime, they should continue to do what the taxpayer pays them for. Fair enough, they can have a whinge, but they are in a position where they have not got the luxery of not caring! Its got to a stage now, where the scumbags know the Guards are useless, so they break the law in plain view. They should be arresting these feckers anyway, even if they will be let off. They need to hassle and irritate them, and charge them where they can. This means that if they commit a crime deemed worthy of proper prosecution, they have a list of offences against them as a charachter witness. But I'm sure The Guards just want to clock in and clock out like the rest of us. It should be a vocation, but to most its just a socialclub. I've been told as much from the horses mouth! They need a complete overhall from the top down. Will it happen? No.

thebiggestjim

andy1249 wrote: »

This smacks to me of seeing the grass greener on the other side of the fence , I was in Munich a couple of years ago and there was a lot of Skinheads/National socialist gangs around , who beat anyone of Jewish/Racial extraction and were by and large tolerated by the cops to certain degree , you need to open your eyes a bit more and stop being so critical of your home , most places have their own problems , Germany too.

Its easy to have rose tinted spectacles on when your abroad , I personally believe the cops here do what they can , its peoples tolerance for this type of thing in general that hobble police efforts , mostly through lack of reporting and all that.

I lived in Munich for a year and a half and have been all around the city. The only place I ran into Skinheads/National socialist gangs was at a football match and I can tell you the cops didn't tolerate them that day. Its the most peaceful city I have ever been in. You couldn't get mugged if you tried.

KTRIC

thebiggestjim wrote: »

I lived in Munich for a year and a half and have been all around the city. The only place I ran into Skinheads/National socialist gangs was at a football match and I can tell you the cops didn't tolerate them that day. Its the most peaceful city I have ever been in. You couldn't get mugged if you tried.

Very true. I didn't reply to his post because it was complete rubbish. They must be doing something right here to have the low crime rate. I don't understand why the Gardai can't enfoce the same level of policing.

keen

csm wrote: »

chicken and egg situation. Do Gardai do nothing because people don't report it, or do people avoid reporting it because the Gardai will do nothing?

I reported crimes to Garda on more then one occasion in the past resulting in nothing being done about it so I don't waste my time ringing anymore.

Only if I have to have something in writing will I call, if the house gets robbed again I will give them a bell so it's all legit I'd have no faith in them catching the scum though that one seems to really puzzle them.

biko

Terry wrote: »

We should be more like the Germans.

We should be more like the Japanese. Safest country in the world, if your woman doesn't mind getting groped on the subway.

AARRRGH

Germany is a better country than Ireland. That's the answer.

ejmaztec

I think that the Germans have more respect for authority figures, rules and regulations etc... Ireland is a bit more Dodge City, without the guns.

the_syco

KTRIC wrote: »

In a nice area in North East Munich (Arabella Park) an old man was set upon by two youths and given a bit of a kicking.

<snip>

The whole fiasco ended with the two scumbags being caught and sentenced to a few years in jail

In this country, the youths would've gotten a slap, and the old dude would find a few of his windows smashed a few days later.

At least here, you can talk about history: the good and the bad. Pick the wrong topic in Germany, and you may face jail.

We need better laws. Someone said that the police didn't take any ****: here, if the police did the same, they'd get blasted by the lefties, and sacked.

peasant

Two main reasons why German policing might be that bit more effective:

1) German law is different.
You don't get to see a judge and jury some three years after committing the offence, who make up the law as they go along. Instead there is a "catalogue" that lists the offence and the according punishment.
For very minor offences (most traffic offences for example), the police writes you your ticket on the spot ...you pay within a few days and that's that ...no judge involved (unless you feel you absolutely must dipute the accusation, but that can get very expensive very quickly)
Slightly higher up the scale you do get to see a judge (no jury), once your guilt is proven he then fairly quickly sentences you to somewhere between the min and max outlined for your particular offence in the "catalogue".
High courts then have several judges and more room for maneuvre in regards to sentencing.
One look at the German law books will tell you what sentence every offence carries and what "price" you will pay, should you get caught.

2) German police is (and alway was) armed


But there is a cultural difference as well. Germans love rules ...even to such an extent that they "enforce" them themselves when the police isn't around. By that I don't mean "vigilante justice" but for example people that have nothing to do all day but stand behind twitching curtains and report their neighbours or passers by who just parked on the double yellow line or put some bio-mass into the recycling bin or mowed their lawn outside the permitted times or whatever :rolleyes:

Dyr

German cops not taking any sh*t..never bring bats to a gunfight


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXNqJSTv1BQ

marcsignal

KTRIC wrote: »

Over the Christmas period in Germany a story made the 6 O'Clock news that if it happened in Ireland would go unreported.

The whole fiasco ended with the two scumbags being caught and sentenced to a few years in jail

The 2 scumbags were, in fact, a Greek and a Turk. It's very unusual, and often forbidden, for German Media to mention such things, because believe it or not, it's actually very PC here.

Their excuse for kicking the sh1t out of the old guy, was that they were drunk, and that he should have known better than to provoke them. At least they got what they deserved

peasant wrote: »

But there is a cultural difference as well. Germans love rules ...even to such an extent that they "enforce" them themselves when the police isn't around. By that I don't mean "vigilante justice" but for example people that have nothing to do all day but stand behind twitching curtains and report their neighbours or passers by who just parked on the double yellow line or put some bio-mass into the recycling bin or mowed their lawn outside the permitted times or whatever :rolleyes:

That is true here, your neighbour (who will say hello every morning), will also report you, if you let your car tax (or equivalent) run over a few weeks.

galwayrush

In Ireland, some people would probably blame the old man for getting himself hurt by upsetting the Yobs.

Seriously, heart-warming story:cool:

Jackus

There is another tread on this forum about this problem.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055111337&page=9&highlight=scumbags
Let me just paste my opinion about it:

From a foreiginer's distance I see the sources of scumbag - problem.
1. Too much of social welfare for scumbags (I'd love to have this amount!)
2. You can't do anything if a kid abuses You or do anything bad (destroys property, car, bus etc.)
3. Gardai doesn't carry guns wchich is just funny for most of foreigners. (People in my country recon that is not true, but just a joke).
4. We should be in touch with neighbours, don't be anonymous.
5. Kids. What about jails (reformatory) for kids?
6. Self defence things such as pepper spray, CS gas, tasser should be allowed as in most countries.

I know that most of it is up to government, but we, as normal people, should stay together against anti - social behaviour! Get to know Your neighbour, meet them and discuss.
Be a role model for others. Anybdy tell me why people throw rubbish on the streets, out of cars, buses? Ask marcsignal what happens if you do that in Germany.
My advice: start travel and see how Ireland (and as I heard UK as well) is away behind other western - europe (not only western-europe) countries!
Yes, Ireland is rich now, but life is not only about money!! C'mon! people! Don't destroy beautiful place - Ireland!

marcsignal

Jigsaw wrote: »

I, for one, would almost be in favour or pre-emptive beatings.

Jeasus ! "Jigsaw" Steady On There ?