Did you have a choice about your confirmation did you choose not to?

lostexpectation

World and local church teachings say you should have and make a conscious choice about your confirmation, did you?

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04215b.htm

In the early ages of the Church, confirmation was part of the rite of initiation, and consequently was administered immediately after baptism. When, however, baptism came to be conferred by simple priests, the two ceremonies were separated in the Western Church. Further, when infant baptism became customary, confirmation was not administered until the child had attained the use of reason.

http://www.kandle.ie/content/view/497/284/

Now they are old enough to say ‘yes’ to that gift for themselves and this is what they do at Confirmation. Like all sacraments we must choose to celebrate it, we must want to celebrate it and it is important to be sure that you and your child are ready to take this final step on the journey to become a full member of the church. These children are very young to be making this decision so they need the support of their parents/guardians/ sponsors and the wider faith community to help them.

It must be the choice that we spoke of earlier. Something that is thought about, discussed and decided on at home. Otherwise it may well become an empty celebration that is more about clothes, money and parties than a holy and grace filled moment.

http://www.holyredeemerbray.ie/home/?page_id=14

This call requires a personal response. The concepts of Choice and Personal Commitment are highlighted constantly throughout the programme.

Our children have reached a certain age when they can now make that baptismal commitment for themselves. They no longer need others to make it on their behalf. They now affirm their own faith and know what this means. They can now become ‘adult Christians’, mature enough to make important decisions, with the help of parents and with the help of the community known as the church. It is important to note how we understand maturity. A twelve-year-old is acting maturely when he or she acts like a twelve-year-old.

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I like to think of myself as independent and intelligent but I never seriously thought about not getting my confirmation, the money was an attraction. I can't say that I consciously thought for one second whether or not I should get confirmed,which is the point of the whole thing surely, (although I can remember not liking having to do it). Everybody was doing it, it was what was done.

Dave!

My parents did not ask me did I want to be confirmed. It was probably more to do with keeping with the Jones's than anything else that I was confirmed, because they did not give me any sort of 'talk' about the spiritual/religious side of the ceremony. It was just an excuse to get the family together and fuss over me really.

The school never asked me either, it was pretty much just accepted that you would be confirmed. It was a Catholic school however, and the Catholic custom (certainly in Ireland) is to be confirmed while young and in school, so I don't see why they wouldn't do it (confirm me).

But being 12 (or whatever age I was), I never gave any thought to what the ceremony was about. As far as I was concerned I would learn a few songs and sing them with the class, get all dressed up and then recite this and that, and earn an additional name (Richard...), and then go and recieve a few wads of cash. There was nothing to choose not to do, as far as I was concerned. While I'm sure the school and the teacher emphasised the spiritual aspect of it and how it was a momentuous occassion where I accept the holy spirit into my heart, etc etc, that all goes in one ear and out the other when you are 12 years old.

That's reason enough that confirmation should not take place at that age.

I gave it serious consideration, at 11 I was open to the possibilty of the whole thing and so went ahead.
However I did opt out of the pledge as I felt it wasn't a religious matter.
I wasn't put under any pressure, in fact when some of the other children piped up, the nun who taught me defended my right to my own choice.

aidan24326

Had no real interest as I recall, but went along with it as it was something you were just supposed to do, being in a catholic school. Don't think I had that much concept of what it was even about, not properly anyway. Nor did I care too much either.

SubjectSean

The only choice I was given was in the name I took. Luckily I still think Francis of Assisi was one of the good guys, it's just a pity about the Church that let him and the rest of us down.

estebancambias

Ok obviously I'm not who this quesiton is geared to, but I cared about the day..fernando was the name I picked....I was told I could not write never(about drinking) on my confirmation card thingy, and have not since stepped into a confession box.

Dades

The idea that an Irish child has a choice is in most cases laughable.

The guilt and pressure that would be brought to bear on a 10 year old mature enough to have a reasoned, contrary opinion doesn't amount to 'free will' IMO.

However I don't feel making one's confirmation has a huge effect on how religious a person will be as an adult. Your personality, and other factors later in life will decide that.

robindch

I was confirmed around ten or so, but wasn't aware that I had any genuine choice in the matter. Yes, you go through the "Are you here of your own free will?" question, but I can't imagine many ten-year old's who are brave enough actually to say "no!" on the day, or to ostracize themselves from the group by saying "no" beforehand.

Especially when there's so much money on offer. My two neices who got confirmed last year and the year before told me that eur300 (AFAIR) was the "target" (their word) in Dublin, and a bit less down the country from where they'd moved the year before.

Anybody else got any figures?

TheThing!

I went along with it at the time mostly because I was on the road to becoming a religious fundamentalist. However I would like to think that if I had seen the light of atheism a few years earlier I would have refused to go through with it, regardless of how much people tried to persuade me.

JC 2K3

I'm glad I was naive, otherwise I would have missed out on c. €200

Zillah

I don't really remember it. I'm sure I didn't understand it. It was one of those things that are simply done. You have to go to school, mass, the doctor, the dentist, funerals, weddings....why would this be any different?

Its a laughable notion that any 10 year old has a serious chance of understanding the situation to the degree where they can make an informed choice, or that they'd have the strength to insist they didn't want to do it should they make such a choice.

JIZZLORD

looking back, i was a twat at age 12, i've never heard of anyone refusing it, confirmation being all about tha bling bling and all...

5uspect

Lack of understanding and €€€ TBH.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I wanted to do it at the time. Religion wasn't a choice back then it was just what you did.

About 14(confirmed @ 12) I regretted being confirmed. I'd imagine if I said no my parents wouldn't have made me but probably would have said "ah go on, for your grandparents sake"

Mr. CooL ICE

Never thought otherwise.

As for the pledge, I didn't care. If i broke it, i broke it, and this was before I became an atheist. However, my teacher in 6th class (a christian brother) annihilated 3 fellas for not agreeing to go through with the pledge, even though it was supposed to be their choice.

humanji

Was I the only one not to get money? I got some toys, which at the time were infinitly more valuable that money(and ironically, I still have them, and they really are valuable now). And I'm only 28.

Regardless, the gifts were the only reason anyone in my class got confirmed, and I'd wager that it's the reason most people in Ireland are confirmed. There was one guy in my class who didn't get confirmed, and the only thing that confused us, was why he'd purposly give up free stuff.

God has very little to do with confimations and communions. To a kid, their world revolves around playing (well t did in my day, now it seems to revolve around sex and alcohol. Is it wrong to be jealous that 12 year olds have more active sex lives than me?)

lostexpectation

i bought a bike, toys pffft :P

when you read those two confirmation guides, the emphasis on choice is partly to do the church and schools going parents 'we're not supposed to be doing all this ourselves you know! its still not about seriously giving 12 year olds choice, I thought I would get a lot more younger people who did get a choice, and chose not to.

Do we need to replace this coming of age ritual with another one, or just scrap it.

I not that friendly with my relatives, this sorta gives a 12 year old an excuse to go see them and acknowledge their existence and vice versa

Galvasean

Never really taught about the religious aspect of it TBH. All I knew/cared about was that everyone else in my class was doing it and there was a lot of money to be made! Hey, gimmie a break I was about eleven.

Jack Sheehan

Well call me materialistic but I did it completely for the money. I got just enough to buy a second hand ps2 that lasted me 4 years. Best investment ever.

rgt320q

I wore my Slayer "God Hates Us All" tour tee to our practise yoke. So yeah, I was 100% in it for the money; 'twas only a necessary evil in my mind

o1s1n

Chose not to. So did a friend of mine. While everyone went down to the church, we were left alone in the classroom. I'm sure that wasn't legal

ztoical

I did and it was the one and only time I tired to be religious. I've never belived for as long as I can remember and my parents didn't want to push me but I was forced into doing my communion mainly cus my parents were afraid at 6 I'd be out cast from my friends. When confirmation came round they said I was old enough to make up my own mind. At that point I was wondering about the whole religion thing cus some friends were really into it [and I mean REALLY into it] So I did everything we were told, asked loads of question of the nuns and really honestly gave it my best shot and I felt nothing. Afterwards I just thought it was a big scam as I'll I got out of it was a new bike with the money I'd made.

Galvasean

I raised enough money to buy an N64. It was worth selling my soul to Jesus.

toiletduck

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I'm glad I was naive, otherwise I would have missed out on c. €200

Got enough money to get myself a PS, I missed out on the 16 bit era and was still playing a Master System up to that point. Totally worth it. Experiencing the jump in technology was far more of a religious experience than the Confirmation!

Besides I had no idea what the whole thing was about, only got a choice of the name I took.

Nevyn

I didn't want to I fought against it.
I even tired picking a male name to get me out of it.
Huge pressure was put on me and I was told that I needed a good does of the holy spirit if I was asking such questions and saying I wasn't ready to be an adult in the church.

lostexpectation

don't you have a 'sponsor' or something, i remember my godparent aunt was mine? or is that communion.

The Mad Hatter

I was an atheist for my confirmation (in fact, that's about when I started thinking about it), but I didn't feel I had a choice in the matter. This was largely due to peer pressure, and to the assumption everyone seemed to have that I was going to do it. But I do remember realising the irony of being told that I had a choice even then.

Naz_st

My parents asked me if I wanted to do my confirmation and explained what it meant (I don't think the concept of confirmation is generally "explained" to children) and I said No, I wasn't interested. That was that. Though it was weird being the only kid in class not doing my confirmation (I think I had to step outside during "confirmation class" or something, it's all a bit hazy). And of course the fact that all my friends became overnight millionaires (or so it seemed at the time!).

common_parlance

I remember only a few flashbulb moments from the whole process.

One memory was during 'Faith Friends,' this frankly weird evening event during the run-up to confirmation where you and a couple of other students are put in a room with some local person who talks mostly about mundane life-stuff with the odd dose of religion thrown in.

I can remember at some stage the guy asked if we believed in God and, having never really thought about it before I said "ehh, dunno, not really I guess" *shrug*, as young kids do. And he said "well, trust me, one day something will happen and you'll turn to God" and I clearly remember thinking "I doubt it."

Still went ahead and got confirmed, of course. Picked "Paul" on a whim. Certainly never took the whole thing seriously. Wish I hadn't done it now, but I wish a thousand times harder I had never been baptised at all. At least I can be grateful I figured it out in the end; other people will be tied down to worshiping the tree-gods forever.

dvpower

I took the name 'John Paul'. I was young. It was 1979.

ChocolateSauce

Was never baptised so didn't have one.

mewso

Went through with it but as far as the pledge went I said in my mind "God if you are there sorry mate - 'aint gonna happen".

Rev Hellfire

I'm sure most people don't really have a choice in the matter, they really wanted the money

rainbow kirby

Went ahead with it for the money. I was 11 when I was confirmed, and was already pretty agnostic at that stage. I took the same confirmation name as my mother and grandmother did (Catherine) to keep the family tradition alive, but I haven't really mentioned it since.

I do remember sitting in class one day and the priest saying to us "Well possibly not all of you will make the decision to be confirmed" and thinking "I really shouldn't, but money is awesome..." :pac:

Tar.Aldarion

I understood very well at that age that it was a load of bollocks, but what I also understood is that the syetem was giving me a lot of money, a party/meal and a chance to have Alexander as a name haha, and I'm not one to not take advantage of people. :pac:

Oh, and very little children would have a choice.

I didn't have a choice, anyway. I've been an atheist for as long as I can remember (even though my parents are somewhat religious) and I knew at the time of both my communion and confirmation that it wasn't something I wanted to do. I suppose the main reason for my continuing on through with the whole process was the end goal of getting lots of money (although I'm sure my parents wouldn't have allowed me a choice, anyway).

One funny thing, though: I remember having my fingers crossed while they were in the prayer position while the priest was confirming me. So that, in my eyes, invalidates the whole thing!

Helix

told my mother i didnt want to make my confirmation, was made to

refused to do religion in 6th class, getting in trouble when i called it "a load of crap"

still didnt get me out of the poxy confirmation tho

5uspect

You should have told the Bishop.

Tar.Aldarion

5uspect wrote: »

You should have told the Bishop.

I beat him silly but nothing came of it. :pac:

5uspect

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I beat him silly but nothing came of it. :pac:

drunkmonkey

I didn't have a choice, I had to go through the motions, our teacher singled out a few of us, made us stand in the yard with our arms out stretched while the other lerned about conformation. We were all told we wouldn't be getting the Holy Spirit as we were to bold.
One of my friends was singled out as the anti christ...our mums were not impressed..

So I never got the holy spirit, the choice was not mine to make..

Malari

Didn't have a choice. Didn't really want to learn Irish verbs either but didn't have a choice with that. In national school, as far as I was concerned every subject was taught the same way. It didn't occur to me to say "hey, I don't wanna learn this!"

Anyway, my rebellious thinking would have been quashed in a instant at that school :pac: Like that episode of the Simpsons where Lisa tries to defy the teacher over something. Teacher presses a button under the desk and an "independent thought alarm" lights up in Principal Skinner's office

ShooterSF

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I understood very well at that age that it was a load of bollocks, but what I also understood is that the syetem was giving me a lot of money, a party/meal and a chance to have Alexander as a name haha, and I'm not one to not take advantage of people. :pac:

Oh, and very little children would have a choice.

I took Alexander as well. Such a cool name I did try Judas first but was told I couldn't so I really wasn't taking the whole thing serious even back then but I believed in a god and money at the time :pac:

Max Power1

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I understood very well at that age that it was a load of bollocks, but what I also understood is that the syetem was giving me a lot of money, a party/meal and a chance to have Alexander as a name haha, and I'm not one to not take advantage of people. :pac:

Oh, and very little children would have a choice.

Same here!

The underlined is important to note - this is why catholicism is still listed as the vast majority in any census. I'd love to know what the true breakdown of religious denominations is in this country

Tar.Aldarion

ShooterSF wrote: »

I took Alexander as well. Such a cool name I did try Judas first but was told I couldn't so I really wasn't taking the whole thing serious even back then but I believed in a god and money at the time :pac:

Hey we can shorten to to Alex, Xander, all sorts of crap.

High five Alexander

Shacklebolt

I remember telling people at the time that I didn't believe in god and was only doing it for the money. Many were shocked

I chose not to take the pledge though.

jmccoy

I did it for the money.

whatdoicare

I had no choice in the matter- everyone in my class was getting confirmed and noone ever asked my opinion on the matter. I assumed I didn't get a say.

I vaguely remember being cranky when deciding what name to take (I randomly picked my cousins name and the teacher told me that it wasn't a holy name so picked one for me) and also when my mother was picking out an outfit for me (I had no decision in that either as I recall- a nasty yellow and illuminous pink concotion I still have nightmares about- and the bishop person whatever he was laughed at my stupid hat) I really wanted nothing to do with the process at all and put as little effort as I could into it.

I have to say though that I never went back to mass from that day on- my mother was under the false impression that since I accepted comfirmation I'd then continue to go to mass of my own accord. I remember arguing with her about it and then not going ever again (I was a stubborn little madam when I wanted to be)- I was well aware even at that age that I had no belief in religion or the church.

5uspect

What? A girl atheist?

whatdoicare

5uspect wrote: »

What? A girl atheist?

Why? Is it a hormonal thing to be religious?? Or a fashion thing?

robindch

whatdoicare wrote: »

the bishop person whatever he was laughed at my stupid hat

I don't think a man who wears purple dresses and a hat that, in a certain light, looks like something grandly unmentionable, is in any position to laugh at other peoples' clothes.