Mountbatten wanted United Ireland

kreuzberger

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you propose! genocide, ethenic cleansing! the populations of these islands are a great mixture of Celts, anglo saxons, normans, danes plus a few others I can't think of off the top of my head.

Have you been reading "Mein Kampf" by any chance?

no , i propose maximising democracy as a means of conflict resolution as opposed to institutionalised sectarianism and vetoes over democracy . Im dumbfounded as to why youve started on with some race nonsense .

kreuzberger

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

I've heard this argument before but I'm not convinced by it. In some instances I think it is even used as a scare tactic by people that don't want to see a united Ireland (I know thats not how you meant it PDN).

.

of course its a scare tactic

kreuzberger

Terry wrote: »

Hi.
I didn't read the whole thread.

My country was invaded.
My eople were basically enslaved by a foreign nation who treated my people as second class citizens.
My ancestors were pissed off with the situation. They decided that they wanted the invading force removed.

After many years they suceeded.

no , they only partially succeeded . My ancestors took part in that struggle too .

The foreign force no longer has a hold on my country, for the most part.

I live in the same country as you . The foreign forces very definitely have a grip on it . They bombed your capital city mercilessly and your politicians and police are still covering it up for them . The Baldonnel accord in 1974 gave foreign intelligence agencies primacy within the security apparatus of your state The mass murder of your own citizens is still being covered up today within the 26 counties with numerous files going missing from governemnt departments and democracy and justice being undermined. They later suceeded in having you change your own constituion , in case someone bombed your capital city because of it . Just because they dont patrol your streets doesnt mean they dont determine what happens on them when necessary .

A certain part of my country was always rebellious and never agreed with the rest of the country.

for a long time the rest of the country agreed or put up with the invaders . Pardon us for taking umbrage . That trip to Kinsale was a little out of our way though for people who wanted to avoid the rest of the country . The united Irishmen may have just been a bit nosey too i suppose and probably should have stayed on cavehill .

They are stil ruled by the invaders.
Sme of the population agree with the invaders, some don't.

plenty south of the border still agree with the invaders

Before the invasion, they wanted to be on their own, so I believe they should be left on their own now.

what ??? what do you base this statement upon ?

They now have their own government.

no , we have stormont , a british governemnt because the invaders wont let us have an Irish one . Just like we had a governemnt in stormont for most of the last century .

They are doing well at the moment.

the politicians certainly are

They should be left to their own devices and brown bulls

the brown bull of cooley wasnt actually real . It was a myth . Everybody in Ireland stole each others cattle . There was no television in those days to pass the time , plus it was a status thing between neighbours .

And we are not left to our own devices , the invaders still control things .

ejmaztec

Hey kreuzberger,

What do you think should have happened in the past to solve this current dilemma, and when should it have happened?

kreuzberger

I believe when our people voted overwhelmingly to introduce democracy on a national basis and establish their sovereignty that should have been respected . Instead after attempting to suppress it by force a foreign governemnt continued in tis attempts to undermine the notion that our people have a right to national democracy , and have sought continuously to subvert that right by interfering in the affairs of the Irish people. This , understandably , has resulted in periodic bouts of armed conflict and will most likely continue to do so .
When Britain threatened terrible war on the Irish people the result was an imposition of politics based upon the fear of the people as opposed to the will of people , and that has characterised Irish politics ever since . That has created a political practice in which the democratic rights of the Irish people are subvservient to a form of politics insisted upon by an outside agency . That principle should never have been abandoned , and there have been ample opportunities to remedy the situation and put the principle of a national democracy without foreign interference central to our political culture . I believe our political culture would be a lot more healthy without the constant contradictions , rhetoric , censorship and hypocrisy that was introduced to avoid dealing with the issue of the denial of democracy accross the island .
An opportune moment arose upon the creation of the United nations , but was not avalied of . More opportunities arose upon the adoption by the UN of international laws and charters which made the type of activity Britian has and continues to engage in illegal . When the Irish conflict began making worldwide news , particularly in America , again international law and an insistence upon democracy should have been availed of . When large aras of the north essentially rejected British rule , put up barricades and created no go areas alterantive governemnt structures should have been implemented for those who rejected the constitutional arrangements of British rule . When Britian began bombing Dublin and Monaghan again the UN and international law should have been availed of , as well as a protest lodged at the EEC . Instead the governemnt sought to cover it up and even aceded to British demands to put their intelligence agencies , which had carred out the bombings , in a role of primacy within counter insurgency operations within the 26 counties . The victims of those bombings were not only ignored but even harassed by the southern police for decades . Ultimately the use and threat of tactics such as these resulted in a situation where Britian could demand of an Irish governemnt that it removed its territorial claim of sovereignty over the 6 counties and call that a root cause of conflcit , as opposed to the occupation and the necessity to trample upon democracy to sustain it . A claim that had ben identified in the supreme court as a constitutional imperative the governemnt was obliged to persue and not empty rhetoric .
All that has happened at the minute is a lid has been put on the previous phase of conflict and the root cause temporarily obscured but not addressed . That has not resolved the conflict . Until the root issue is addressed , Britians right to suppress a national democracy on this island , further conflcit will be inevitable and yet again politics will demand we turn our face away from the concept of national democracy and our right to practice it and engage in self deception , rhetoric and censorship in order to accomodate the occupation of our country and the suppression of our peoples right to practice national democracy .

kreuzberger

Deleted User wrote: »

Can this thread get any lower, now degenerating into personal insults!

i havent insulted anyone in this thread , or any other thread , but youve called me a genocidal nazi , dragging the thread own to a nonsensical level with unwarranted abuse . Its hypocritical of you to criticise others .

Pathfinder

Northern Ireland was such a terrible place for Catholics, thousands left the south in the 40s, 50s and 60s,to move there, because it had a free NHS, social security, work and was not run by men in dog collars.

Infact it must be the only state in history where those it allegedly persecuted fled to it.

As for "Britain invading Ireland".

If you bother to check your history Henry II was invited into Ireland, google the treaty of Windsor.

Ireland as one country did not exist at that time, it was 5 provinces (Yes, 5) with the Vikings ruling Dublin and Waterford.

Irelands historic problem has been that unlike other European nations it was never conquered by the Romans. Which gave other countries there legal and cultural basis as well as their mercantile and civil development.

ejmaztec

Pathfinder wrote: »

Northern Ireland was such a terrible place for Catholics, thousands left the south in the 40s, 50s and 60s,to move there, because it had a free NHS, social security, work and was not run by men in dog collars.

Yes, the value of "The Welfare State" seems to be ignored in the anti-unionist camp. After 1948, it must have been a hard job trying to convince the nationalist population that a united Ireland was the best thing, and that, as a consequence of re-unification, they would have to pay through the nose for medical treatment, and also have to pay for the "free" education as mentioned in the Irish Constitution, not to mention lose out on many other financial benefits.

I've spoken to various people in these parts, who did move to the North decades ago, but they came back because they couldn't stick the atmosphere. I wouldn't like to guess how many didn't return, however.

McArmalite

Pathfinder wrote: »

Let the dead Rest in Peace, you stupid little yobo.

And who was the one with the smart remark about Sean South. Gobsh!te.

Deleted User wrote: »

It's on my sig edit: you forgot to mention the weather station while you're at it.

PS: thanks for the traffic

Well so long as everyone had a good laugh at Philip & Joans Little House on the Prairie . Jayus, how you got planning permission for an eye soar like that I'll never know. Best thing you could do with it pal, is get the bulldozers in and knock it down for Gawd's sake.

McArmalite

Pathfinder wrote: »

Northern Ireland was such a terrible place for Catholics, thousands left the south in the 40s, 50s and 60s,to move there, because it had a free NHS, social security, work and was not run by men in dog collars.

Infact it must be the only state in history where those it allegedly persecuted fled to it.

As for "Britain invading Ireland".

If you bother to check your history Henry II was invited into Ireland, google the treaty of Windsor.

Ireland as one country did not exist at that time, it was 5 provinces (Yes, 5) with the Vikings ruling Dublin and Waterford.

Irelands historic problem has been that unlike other European nations it was never conquered by the Romans. Which gave other countries there legal and cultural basis as well as their mercantile and civil development.

" thousands left the south in the 40s, 50s and 60s,to move there, " Total lies from you as usual, you seem to make up some half baked theory and then go ahead and post it as fact. Let's see you produce some hard facts to prove it. Maybe you'll find them from your 'Ultimate SAS book that knows everything in the universe'. As for working in the six couties if you were a citizen of the 'Free State'. A person from the 26 could work in England, Scotland or Wales no problem, just get you income tax no. with a birth cert. or passport etc. To work in the six counties, the unionist regime had a system of visas - suspended during WW2 for obvious reasons - as they didn't want too many papes coming north and the secret unionist nightmare, Most the visas were issued for a southern taig to work only for a few months in the north.

Pathfinder wrote: »

Infact it must be the only state in history where those it allegedly persecuted fled to it.

Complete and total lies.

* Newsclipping from the `Irish Press', 24 April 1939, `The Orange Order When Children Were Marks For Bullets', by Madame MacBride. She discusses the Belfast pograms throughout the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. `They were all attributable to the Orange Society; many occurred round the 12th of July or 5th of November, but most coincided with some political move of the leaders. The principal ones were in 1843, `57, `80, `84, `86, 1907 and 1920-21, the last in 1935. Most of them lasted for several months and caused the deaths of numbers of innocent persons. The toll of women and children was large. In 1920, in one week, the Mater Misericordiae Hospital in Belfast had as many as a hundred and thirty-five little Catholic children as patients suffering from wounds. They had most of them been sniped at by Orange marksmen on their way to or from school … I had occasion to help in the care of the Belfast refugees who flocked into Dublin so fast it was almost impossible to find accommodation for them. It was piteous to see the maimed children and the nerve-shattered mothers. Mrs Despard opened her house to many'. She states that while the `rank and file of Orangemen beat Catholic workers from the shipyards and Catholic girls from the spinning-wheels, the Grand Masters of the Lodges were forming a Provisional Government for Ulster under the leadership of Carson and starting their £1,000,000 Indemnity Fund to buy arms for Orangemen and with General Sir Henry Wilson and Colonel Gough arranging the Curragh mutiny'.

Ah yes, ethnic cleansing british style carried out by the british version of the KKK, the Orange Order. Ah, the lovely unionist community, and all their lovely traditions and culture.
* http://www.nationalarchives.ie/search/index.php?browse=true&category=1&subcategory=9&offset=4960&browseresults=true

kreuzberger

Pathfinder wrote: »

Northern Ireland was such a terrible place for Catholics, thousands left the south in the 40s, 50s and 60s,to move there, because it had a free NHS, social security, work and was not run by men in dog collars.

this is fantasy . It was run by men in sashes and bowler hats . And it was indeed a terrible place .

Infact it must be the only state in history where those it allegedly persecuted fled to it.

are you seriously claiming the north was not a rabidly sectarian kip ? seriously ?

As for "Britain invading Ireland".

If you bother to check your history Henry II was invited into Ireland, google the treaty of Windsor.

i know my history , and the treaty of windsor was drafted post Norman invasion .

Ireland as one country did not exist at that time, it was 5 provinces (Yes, 5) with the Vikings ruling Dublin and Waterford.

the Irish term for province is cuige , meaning one fifth . which means all 5 provinces were part of one single entity . Ireland . All 5 provinces were inextricably linked . It was one country without a shadow of a doubt .

Irelands historic problem has been that unlike other European nations it was never conquered by the Romans. Which gave other countries there legal and cultural basis as well as their mercantile and civil development

our historical problem has damn all to do with roman conquest , only our interfering neighbours . Our culture was highly evolved , so evolved in fact that successive waves of norman invaders kept adopting it as their own . Meaning very simply it was superior to their own as a way of life , otherwise that would not have happened repeatedly . Our mercantile and civil development was actually made illegal , which pretty much hinders development .

kreuzberger

kreuzberger wrote: »

i havent insulted anyone in this thread , or any other thread , but youve called me a genocidal nazi , dragging the thread own to a nonsensical level with unwarranted abuse . Its hypocritical of you to criticise others .

You are the one that referred to the british as a disease that needed eradicating!

kreuzberger

Deleted User wrote: »

You are the one that referred to the british as a disease that needed eradicating!

no i didnt . stop making stuff up otherwise nobody will take you seriously

what i said was Its British intereference in Ireland thats the root of the problem . We cant tackle the symptoms untill we address the existence of the disease itself

no mention of eradicating anybody , simply identifying that its undemocratic interference which gives rose to social evils such as sectariainism , conflict and a politics of backwardness and impotent hypocrisy . To overcome these hindrances and progress politically to a dignified state its necessary to address the root cause of these problems rather than pretend it doesnt exist . its a metaphor , a common facet of intellectual discourse .

Pathfinder

kreuzberger wrote: »

Pathfinder wrote: »

this is fantasy . It was run by men in sashes and bowler hats . And it was indeed a terrible place .



are you seriously claiming the north was not a rabidly sectarian kip ? seriously ?



i know my history , and the treaty of windsor was drafted post Norman invasion .



the Irish term for province is cuige , meaning one fifth . which means all 5 provinces were part of one single entity . Ireland . All 5 provinces were inextricably linked . It was one country without a shadow of a doubt .



our historical problem has damn all to do with roman conquest , only our interfering neighbours . Our culture was highly evolved , so evolved in fact that successive waves of norman invaders kept adopting it as their own . Meaning very simply it was superior to their own as a way of life , otherwise that would not have happened repeatedly . Our mercantile and civil development was actually made illegal , which pretty much hinders development .

This is revisionism in the extreme, Ireland was not one united country, the Vikings ruled Dublin and the SE.

[SIZE=-1] Rory O'Conor, High King of Ireland let Henry II in to oust the Vikings.

Henry II was a French King who regarded England as one part of his Kingdom.

The north had free education, an NHS and social security system the south had gulags for unmarried Mothers.

Yes, the Normans went native, that does not mean Gaelic culture was superior, infact the Gaels never built a city or building of note.

Claiming Irelands heritage is just Gaelic is a nonsense, most of us have ancestors were also Viking, Saxon and Norman.....thats the reality and all are just as legit as Gaelic culture.
[/SIZE]

kreuzberger

Pathfinder wrote: »

kreuzberger wrote: »

This is revisionism in the extreme, Ireland was not one united country, the Vikings ruled Dublin and the SE.

[SIZE=-1]Rory O'Conor, High King of Ireland let Henry II in to oust the Vikings.[/SIZE]

this is rubbish . The hiberno Norse power base had been broken during the time of Boru . The hiberno norse then fully assimilated into the local culture . The normans were invited in by Diarmuid Mac Murrough . Their mission was a papal one , to convert the Irish nation to Roman catholicisim with the backing of a papal Bull Lauditer . Invasion was authorised by the pope against our country . Rory OConnor submitted to norman rule , after military defeat , in exchange for being allowed retain land ownership .

Britain was still a series of warring kingdoms with different languages right up to the 17th century and may still yet fall apart . Our nationhood is a lot longer established than theirs and will most likely outlast thiers .



[SIZE=-1]

[SIZE=-1]The north had free education, an NHS and social security system the south had gulags for unmarried Mothers.[/SIZE]

[/SIZE]

the south had free education and a social security system also . what is your point ? are you still trying to maintain the place wasnt a bitterly sectarian kip held together with draconian legislation and local orange militias ?

[SIZE=-1]

[SIZE=-1]Yes, the Normans went native, that does not mean Gaelic culture was superior, infact the Gaels never built a city or building of note.[/SIZE]

[/SIZE]

Normans arriving on this island kept adopting its cultural traditions and language in preference to their own over a period of centuries . For the dominant power to do this as opposed to a subjugated people being forced to adopt a foreign culture means the culture they encountered was superior to their own , so they adopted it as their own . Ruler after ruler over hundreds of years . The gaelic way of life was not concerned with building cities , which simply were not necessary to that lifestyle . Simply because it was different did not make it inferior

[SIZE=-1]

[SIZE=-1]Claiming Irelands heritage is just Gaelic is a nonsense[/SIZE]

, [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Irelands heritage is predominantly gaelic [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]

[SIZE=-1]most of us have ancestors were also Viking, Saxon and Norman.....thats the reality and all are just as legit as Gaelic culture.[/SIZE]

[/SIZE]

all adopted gaelic culture as their own . The modern gaelic revivial even was spurred on by Presbyterians , protestant businessmen and academics and the Anglo Irish .

McArmalite

Pathfinder wrote: »

[SIZE=-1] infact the Gaels never built a city or building of note.

[/SIZE]

Newgrange - Originally built between c.3300-2900 BC according to Carbon-14 dates, it is more than 500 years older than the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt. Designated a World Heritage Site by UNESCO because of it's outstanding cultural legacy.

We'll declare a national holiday when he makes a decent posting. :rolleyes: I must say though, you really know how to impress and endear yourself to the Irish. Without the britpack, ( you, dolanbaker, Fred ), my job would be so much more difficult

Fratton Fred

kreuzberger wrote: »

this is rubbish . The hiberno Norse power base had been broken during the time of Boru . The hiberno norse then fully assimilated into the local culture . The normans were invited in by Diarmuid Mac Murrough . Their mission was a papal one , to convert the Irish nation to Roman catholicisim with the backing of a papal Bull Lauditer . Invasion was authorised by the pope against our country . Rory OConnor submitted to norman rule , after military defeat , in exchange for being allowed retain land ownership .

Britain was still a series of warring kingdoms with different languages right up to the 17th century and may still yet fall apart . Our nationhood is a lot longer established than theirs and will most likely outlast thiers .

Err, that's wrong.

McArmalite

McArmalite wrote: »

Newgrange - Originally built between c.3300-2900 BC according to Carbon-14 dates, it is more than 500 years older than the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt. Designated a World Heritage Site by UNESCO because of it's outstanding cultural legacy.

Northern Europe is dotted with such prehistoric structures, wtf has that to do with modern history.

Fratton Fred

Deleted User wrote: »

Northern Europe is dotted with such prehistoric structures, wtf has that to do with modern history.

And like most buildings in this country, it was probably built by the Polish anyway

Fratton Fred

Fratton Fred wrote: »

And like most buildings in this country, it was probably built by the Polish anyway

Nah! it was the same firm that built stonehenge, as it was they could probably have walked across between the two building sites without getting their feet wet!

PS I can't be arsed to verify when the Irish sea was formed.

PDN

Pathfinder wrote: »

Northern Ireland was such a terrible place for Catholics, thousands left the south in the 40s, 50s and 60s,to move there, because it had a free NHS, social security, work and was not run by men in dog collars.

After the war both the Northern Irish and the Republicś economy was pretty crap. However, the existence of the NHS in the North was a strong disincentive for removing the border, particularly since the Catholic Church was determined to block any similar initiative in the Republic. Also, the North benefited from more economic assistance from the UK.

For most people economy trumps ideology every time. Lemass and others recognised that reunification would be impossible while the Republic's living standards were much lower than those in the North. Today the situation is reversed.

McArmalite

Deleted User wrote: »

Northern Europe is dotted with such prehistoric structures, wtf has that to do with modern history.

It was your fellow brit Pathfinder who raised the issue " infact the Gaels never built a city or building of note. " ya clown

McArmalite

McArmalite wrote: »

It was your fellow brit Pathfinder who raised the issue " infact the Gaels never built a city or building of note. " ya clown

How childish!

McArmalite

Deleted User wrote: »

How childish!

No, worse again, your british :rolleyes:

Fratton Fred

McArmalite wrote: »

No, worse again, your british :rolleyes:

careful, you are showing your true colours.

McArmalite

McArmalite wrote: »

No, worse again, your british :rolleyes:

My British what?

Pathfinder

kreuzberger wrote: »

Pathfinder wrote: »

kreuzberger wrote: »

this is rubbish . The hiberno Norse power base had been broken during the time of Boru . The hiberno norse then fully assimilated into the local culture . The normans were invited in by Diarmuid Mac Murrough . Their mission was a papal one , to convert the Irish nation to Roman catholicisim with the backing of a papal Bull Lauditer . Invasion was authorised by the pope against our country . Rory OConnor submitted to norman rule , after military defeat , in exchange for being allowed retain land ownership .

Britain was still a series of warring kingdoms with different languages right up to the 17th century and may still yet fall apart . Our nationhood is a lot longer established than theirs and will most likely outlast thiers .





the south had free education and a social security system also . what is your point ? are you still trying to maintain the place wasnt a bitterly sectarian kip held together with draconian legislation and local orange militias ?



Normans arriving on this island kept adopting its cultural traditions and language in preference to their own over a period of centuries . For the dominant power to do this as opposed to a subjugated people being forced to adopt a foreign culture means the culture they encountered was superior to their own , so they adopted it as their own . Ruler after ruler over hundreds of years . The gaelic way of life was not concerned with building cities , which simply were not necessary to that lifestyle . Simply because it was different did not make it inferior

[SIZE=-1], [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Irelands heritage is predominantly gaelic [/SIZE]



all adopted gaelic culture as their own . The modern gaelic revivial even was spurred on by Presbyterians , protestant businessmen and academics and the Anglo Irish .

Not true the Norse still ruled Dublin.


How was Ireland one country :
After losing the protection of Tyrone Chief, Muirchertach MacLochlainn, High King of Ireland, who died in 1166, Dermot MacMurrough (Irish Diarmait Mac Murchada) , was forcibly exiled by a confederation of Irish forces under the new High King, Ruairí O'Connor.
Diarmait fled first to Bristol and then to Normandy. He sought and obtained permission from Henry II of England to use the latter's subjects to regain his kingdom. By 1167 MacMurrough had obtained the services of Maurice Fitz Gerald and later persuaded Rhys ap Gruffydd Prince of Deheubarth to release Maurice's half-brother Robert Fitz-Stephen from captivity to take part in the expedition. Most importantly he obtained the support of the Earl of Pembroke Richard de Clare, known as Strongbow.
The first Norman knight to land in Ireland was Richard fitz Godbert de Roche in 1167, but it was not until 1169 that the main forces of Normans, Welsh and Flemings landed in Wexford. Within a short time Leinster was regained, Waterford and Dublin were under Diarmait's control, and he had Strongbow as a son-in-law, and named him as heir to his kingdom. This latter development caused consternation to King Henry II of England, who feared the establishment of a rival Norman state in Ireland.
Hasculf Thorgillsson



last Viking King in Ireland. The Norse power base was broken by Norman invasion.

......................The Norse even spoke their own language and worshipped their own Gods, how were they fully assimilated ? (d. 1171) was the last Norse King of Dublin. His fortress is believed to have stood on the modern site of Dublin Castle. After the 1171 invasion under Strongbow, Hasculf's Kingdom was captured by Anglo-Norman mercenaries allied with King Dermot MacMurrough. He was forced to flee to the Scottish Highlands, where he raised an army among his relations there. When he returned and attempted to regain his Kingdom by force, he was defeated and killed. The Annals of the Four Masters state that he was killed in battle.




QUOTE :

Irelands heritage is predominantly gaelic


................Another Irish nationalist myth,Norman influence has been far greater then Gaelic for nearly 1000 years, from the legal system to our modern language and culture and many other things.

If anyone in England claimed England's heritage and cultural development was predominantly Saxon they would be laughed at.

Shutuplaura

Pathfinder wrote: »

kreuzberger wrote: »

Pathfinder wrote: »

Not true the Norse still ruled Dublin.


How was Ireland one country :
After losing the protection of Tyrone Chief, Muirchertach MacLochlainn, High King of Ireland, who died in 1166, Dermot MacMurrough (Irish Diarmait Mac Murchada) , was forcibly exiled by a confederation of Irish forces under the new High King, Ruairí O'Connor.
Diarmait fled first to Bristol and then to Normandy. He sought and obtained permission from Henry II of England to use the latter's subjects to regain his kingdom. By 1167 MacMurrough had obtained the services of Maurice Fitz Gerald and later persuaded Rhys ap Gruffydd Prince of Deheubarth to release Maurice's half-brother Robert Fitz-Stephen from captivity to take part in the expedition. Most importantly he obtained the support of the Earl of Pembroke Richard de Clare, known as Strongbow.
The first Norman knight to land in Ireland was Richard fitz Godbert de Roche in 1167, but it was not until 1169 that the main forces of Normans, Welsh and Flemings landed in Wexford. Within a short time Leinster was regained, Waterford and Dublin were under Diarmait's control, and he had Strongbow as a son-in-law, and named him as heir to his kingdom. This latter development caused consternation to King Henry II of England, who feared the establishment of a rival Norman state in Ireland.
Hasculf Thorgillsson



last Viking King in Ireland. The Norse power base was broken by Norman invasion.

......................The Norse even spoke their own language and worshipped their own Gods, how were they fully assimilated ? (d. 1171) was the last Norse King of Dublin. His fortress is believed to have stood on the modern site of Dublin Castle. After the 1171 invasion under Strongbow, Hasculf's Kingdom was captured by Anglo-Norman mercenaries allied with King Dermot MacMurrough. He was forced to flee to the Scottish Highlands, where he raised an army among his relations there. When he returned and attempted to regain his Kingdom by force, he was defeated and killed. The Annals of the Four Masters state that he was killed in battle.




QUOTE :

Irelands heritage is predominantly gaelic


................Another Irish nationalist myth,Norman influence has been far greater then Gaelic for nearly 1000 years, from the legal system to our modern language and culture and many other things.

If anyone in England claimed England's heritage and cultural development was predominantly Saxon they would be laughed at.

Charles, hows your son getting on in the Royal Marines? How are your weekend yomping trips up the Knockmealdowns going this weather? How come you stopped trolling in Politics.ie? I quite enjoyed your contributions there.

Regarding Ireland not being one unified country - what the hell does that have to do with anything - besides being a bit dubious...the irish word for province is fifth - ie one fifth of a whole, so clearly there was some thinking of the Ireland as a unified body by peoples at the time. Ditto not having our own cities? What has that got to do with anything?
The Norman Invasion of Ireland was considered a most unwelcome event by most people who lived in the country at the time, so these are red just herrings and plain insults. Anyway the Kings of England were given authority to intervene in Ireland by the Pope (who was also English) and its from that fact they derived the supposed legality of their rule here so Dermot MacMurrough's invitation was irrelavant. And also, by your logic, as King of part of Leinster, his invitation would only have applied there and not to the rest of the Island. Strange then didn't keep to the confines of his realms. Underland holding laws in Gaelic Ireland his promises were illegal anyway - he didn't own his kingdom feudal style but governed it on behlaf of his tribe. Far more equitable it sounds to me. Pity the barbaric tinker's ****es that invaded set equality back a few hundred years when they introduced backward feudal common law to Ireland.

McArmalite

Shutuplaura wrote: »

Charles, hows your son getting on in the Royal Marines? How are your weekend yomping trips up the Knockmealdowns going this weather? How come you stopped trolling in Politics.ie? I quite enjoyed your contributions there.

Gotta admit, I do enjoy his contributions here

kreuzberger

Shutuplaura wrote: »

Pathfinder wrote: »

kreuzberger wrote: »

Charles, hows your son getting on in the Royal Marines? How are your weekend yomping trips up the Knockmealdowns going this weather? How come you stopped trolling in Politics.ie? I quite enjoyed your contributions there.

Regarding Ireland not being one unified country - what the hell does that have to do with anything - besides being a bit dubious...the irish word for province is fifth - ie one fifth of a whole, so clearly there was some thinking of the Ireland as a unified body by peoples at the time. Ditto not having our own cities? What has that got to do with anything?
The Norman Invasion of Ireland was considered a most unwelcome event by most people who lived in the country at the time, so these are red just herrings and plain insults. Anyway the Kings of England were given authority to intervene in Ireland by the Pope (who was also English) and its from that fact they derived the supposed legality of their rule here so Dermot MacMurrough's invitation was irrelavant. And also, by your logic, as King of part of Leinster, his invitation would only have applied there and not to the rest of the Island. Strange then didn't keep to the confines of his realms. Underland holding laws in Gaelic Ireland his promises were illegal anyway - he didn't own his kingdom feudal style but governed it on behlaf of his tribe. Far more equitable it sounds to me. Pity the barbaric tinker's ****es that invaded set equality back a few hundred years when they introduced backward feudal common law to Ireland.

unbelievably yer man has set out to prove ireland wasnt a united country by pointing out how Mr Mac Murrough was expelled from Ireland by a unified Irish force under command of the huigh king of Ireland and had to tour around outisde of the country in order to find allies . He also points to the seemingly unassimilated viking king who went to the gaelic speaking scottish highlands to have a yarn with his relatives .