Considering IT Carlow

SeattleBlue

Hello. I'm a 30 y/o American planning on moving to Ireland to finally get myself a computer science degree. I was looking at mostly Dublin IT's until my ex-girlfriend suggested IT Carlow. What is a realistic estimate for cost of living as a student in Carlow? Would you say the students and locals are pretty friendly? Since it looks like there isn't a whole lot to do about town, is there a gamer culture at the school or other somewhat social geeky activities going on?

Thanks,
Rob

Ivan

I spent 4 years in Carlow and Carlow IT.

There are some definite advantages to Carlow IT compared to dublin IT's, the first most obvious is cost of living. Its been 2 years since I was living there but I could live very comfortably on about €250 per week. Including rent. That works out at about $360 at todays conversion rate. Thats for decent accommadation, good food assuming you take advantage of the many special offers available at the local butchers and the aldi etc. and avoid eating in the college too often.

Some of the lecturers are absolutely fantastic people, not only to learn from but also to hear their stories about the subject you are learning. Keep in mind though that there will obviously be some lecturers that you wont get on with that well or that you can have difficulty learning the subject from. This can be overcome by some solid work on your part though and shouldnt really affect your decision much as you'll find this pretty much anywhere you go.

The facilities, compared to most IT's in Ireland are very good. The computer labs and services are pretty top notch too, at least when I was there. Although from what I've heard of American colleges they might pale in comparison but I presume you would be aware of this if you are planning on moving to Ireland to do Computer Science.

Another issue which you would face and I hate to say it, is that there will be a certain amount of prejudice that you will face, not only in Carlow but in Ireland as a whole. The longstanding ties between Ireland and America have almost faded away and there is a very healthy anti-American attitude with most of todays youth. On the whole this shouldnt be too noticeable, but be prepared to defend your country and its foreign policies on many the drunken night

I know its a cliché but Irish people are generally nice people and I think no matter where you go, you will have good craic there. Though dublin is definitely more multicultural than Carlow but this can be a negative too.

As for a gaming culture, I think there is a pretty mainstream gaming culture throughout most of Ireland especially in Galway and Dublin and if you visit Boards.ie regularly you shouldnt have much issue keeping aware of whats going on. In addition to that, 2 years before I went to Carlow some very industrious people set up a computer Society called Compsoc, which is basically just a formalised society for playing computer games within the IT at designated times. There is usually something for everyone but I believe the majority of gameplay these days is limited to FPS games on PC's. I'd expect the current Compsoc admin to be along and disagree/add more to this any day now

Speaking from experience, my time in Carlow and Carlow IT was some of the best times of my life, the people there were all a helluva lot of fun and I have made some definite lifelong friendships its only a shame I never managed to finish my degree as perhaps a bit too much fun was had

Your experiences may vary, considering your age difference compared to when I was there and your nationality as I already stated.

Hoped this answered some of your questions and if you have any others, dont hesitate to ask.

SeattleBlue

Ivan, Thank you for the quick and detailed response. You hit some very good points. My ex-girlfriend grew up in Carlow and I've spent several months around Kilkenny and Dublin the past 6 years so I have a good idea what's in store for me as an American. I have a unique perspective on the world that disarms most people but I do notice people keep some distance from me until we've had the politics conversation, which usually comes up pretty quick thankfully. I anticipate that being freakishly old for a college student would be a far greater challenge.

I'm glad to hear Carlow IT has good staff and facilities. I've worked at Microsoft for the past 10 years and have been programming for 6 or those so the degree is more about the life experience than the actual eduction, though polishing up the fundamentals will do me good.

I'm waiting on a response from my application and if I get accepted I'll probably have more questions.

Thanks again!

Overheal

well i guess you've already considered the costs involved: As far as im aware ITC does not fall under the list of approved institutions for the United States student loans scheme - im fairly sure only 5 universities (Trinity, UCC, UCD, NUIG, UL) qualify.

Why in the hell would you displace yourself from Seattle all the way to Ireland for a computing degree? I'm getting deja vu...

SeattleBlue

Overheal, Luckily I've accumulated enough assests to do this without loans but will be a bit tight so Carlow IT looks like a very good choice for me economically.

The reasons why I want to move 8 times zones away to a foreign country to study computer science when there are excellent local schools here are a bit involved and would most likely derail this thread but might make good conversation. If you are truly interested drop me a pm and we can have this discussion offline or I can start a new thread in a more appropriate category if anyone else has any interest.

Ivan

I know I'd be interested in knowing your reasons too and since you have no issue with sharing them then feel free to do so.

This thread is about you expressing an interest in going to Carlow IT and asking a few questions about the place, understanding your reasons for wanting to attend an IT in Ireland might help people answer some of your questions in a manner more specific to your circumstances or help people answer questions you might not even have considered.

So feel free to reply in this thread, if you wish

SeattleBlue

I guess the best place to start is my first trip to Ireland in 2001. I was 24 at the time and George Bush had just recently stolen the presidency. I went over to meet a girl that I had been talking to for a great while that I met on a Yahoo chat board where she was slumming in one of the Seattle channels. I arrived and she turned out to be completely psycho but her friend kicked ass so her friend (we’ll call her Mary) and I ended up hitting it off instead. Most of the trip was me spending a month doing typical touristy stuff and even though I enjoyed my visit I went home with no real desire to ever move there.

So about a year later when Mary was done with school she came to Seattle and stayed for about 3- 4 months where I was indoctrinated with Irish politics, culture, and social structure. I never realized until then how progressive and socially responsible Ireland was and then became obsessed with my own country’s politics, culture, etc. I eventually came to the realization that it’s time for me to leave and contribute to a country that is moving forward not backward. Returning to Ireland to visit in 2004 for another month sold me on Ireland and I started scheming to move there.

One big problem, no college degree. I tried to work around it with a transfer to Microsoft Dublin but that fell through. I eventually shelved my Ireland plans for various reasons until a few months ago when I was telling Mary how I’m thinking about starting up part time college over here to get my degree since it’s getting harder to compete for programming jobs without one and how it is also limiting my ability to leave the country. She suggested maybe I should just go to college in Ireland. This was a perfect idea. I get a college degree and get to sample Ireland for 4 years all in one shot.

So here I am. Biggest challenge now will be getting accepted to a computer science program since I hear that admission is tight over there and I was a terrible slacker most of high school and Carlow IT in particular wanted to see my grades from 11 years ago. I couldn’t get a clear answer but it sounds like the mature student application process may not be available to foreign students.

wheres me jumpa

Spent five years at Carlow, went from Certificate to Diploma to Degree, all in the IT field. While there, I enjoyed my time immensely and came out with a decent education which has opened many doors for me.

However there are a few things to point out. Firstly, admissions to computer science courses are not tight in terms of competition, they may be in terms of your visa(i dont know) but admissions to these courses have fell dramatically in recent years.

Because it is now so easy to enter these courses, I found a large percentage of the class are people who just end up in IT. They dont have any desire or particular interest in IT, it just seems a handy little number. In my time there, I was a slacker but I had a genuine interest in the field. Im not sure if its the same in other colleges, but be prepared to come in contact with people who, one, wont finish the course, or two, will finish the course with a close pass will only worsen the impression of IT grads.

In terms of the facilities, they were fine for me. We got stuck in some horrible rooms over the years but again this is probably the same in other colleges. Its a small campus, so it has a small library, small gym and small car park. When I was leaving, volume was becoming an issue, Im not sure if there was any improvements.

In terms of the lecturers, it was a mixed bag. Some excellent lecturers, some terrible lecturers. The bad lecturers were so bad, it was impossible to comprehend how they earned a salary. The standard of some of our classes was crazy. There were very few classes in my time there, that needed 100% attendance to get a good mark. Be prepared to endure a lot of filler classes.

Socially, its all drinking and crazyness...which I loved. But at 30 years of age your social options might be limited. In all my classes there was a very clear divide between the young students and the mature students.

Carlow town itself is not the most eventful of places. Its very much a commuter town now with little industry and limited entertainment. It is improving however but compared to say Dublin, there is very little choice in Carlow.

So in terms of getting a degree, Carlow is fine. It will be a cheap option for you, academically it wont be tough for someone with your experience. But in terms of getting a highly respected degree from a resource plenty college where you worked your a** off for x amount of years, Im not sure if Carlow is the right option.

SeattleBlue

Thanks everyone for your advice. If I get accepted I'm sure I'll have more questions of you.

Thanks again.

The_B_Man

sure i was good buddys with 1 mature US student. hes 40. thru him i also met all the other mature students. they had a laugh and had their own social scene on top of the mainstream one (there's a mature students society). I also knew another mature american student (who was with a girl called mary funnily enough....another psycho) but he didnt like the whole social scene of goin out gettin drunk every night, as it can be fairly energetic. he did like the college tho, as far as i know.

theres also a compsoc (computer society) that meet once/twice a weekl to play games...tho they officially state that they look into other computer related stuff, like unix and networking etc etc.....mostly CS:Source tho!

aynon

that sounds good, keep us up to date, we hope you get accepted!

mrDuke

Great college, brillant services, good craic, great student atmosphere, safe and if you can get the apartments along the river bank there sweet.

Camo1725

I'm thinking about the computer games course there. I hope it is comprehensive and not just a few modules thrown together, but it has links to microsoft so fingers crossed

Ivan

From what I heard from the second years, after it had just started when I was still there; they said that first year was an absolute blast but that second year was scarily difficult. Read into that what you will

Overheal

Camo1725 wrote: »

I'm thinking about the computer games course there. I hope it is comprehensive and not just a few modules thrown together, but it has links to microsoft so fingers crossed

Yeah those links to Microsoft are a bit of a Joke bud. They vouched for some Alienware PCs and all that hullaballoo but to be fair they aren't that knit with the course in the slightest. Don't expect free T-shirts or anything.

But the course is decent and still regarded as one of the better, even by international regard. Your employment opportunities locally may be a bit jaded however. Me being a foreign national could give a damn but for most people thats a bother.

It is comprehensive: Programming, Data Structures, 3D and Graphics Theory and Application, Audio, Human Computer Interaction study, Software Engineering principles, 6 month industry placement, etc.

Expect to be required to study some moderate to complex (to brain numbing) math and physics, be decent with learning a new language (programming but still a valid point), and be a strong logical thinker as most of your time is spent working in steps and iterations over a long period of time. Typing skills also useful

ONLY A VERY SMALL PORTION OF THE COURSE IS FOCUSED ON THE DESIGN ASPECT OF GAMES. THERE IS LITTLE TIME SPENT PLAYING GAMES.

The course provides you all the skills and talents you will need to build a game. You'll learn a little bit about game balancing and design and all that but the main focus is about the development process. Imagine being taught how to hold a pencil and how to draw lines and shade - they arent too pushed about teaching you how to sketch a masterpiece or anything. Only yourself and your own practise are going to do that. Dont expect to graduate and be thrown straight into Bungie Studios to be the lead design on the next Halo Killer: you're going to be a code monkey for a couple years before you (or I) ever get a real chance as a design lead.

The rewarding aspect is you really are given the expertise to create cames from the ground up. Some kids are happy playing in their moms basement with the Starcraft Map Editor - others prefer to make Starcraft.

EDIT: Riverbank apartments arent bad to be honest. You could really have a bitch fest about the internet restrictions in place there and the size of the apartments but they aren't all the bad and especially good for first years.

Genghiz Cohen

Overheal wrote: »

Yeah those links to Microsoft are a bit of a Joke bud. They vouched for some Alienware PCs

Which are badly dated at this stage.

Overheal wrote: »

ONLY A VERY SMALL PORTION OF THE COURSE IS FOCUSED ON THE DESIGN ASPECT OF GAMES. THERE IS LITTLE TIME SPENT PLAYING GAMES.

The course provides you all the skills and talents you will need to build a game. You'll learn a little bit about game balancing and design and all that but the main focus is about the development process. Imagine being taught how to hold a pencil and how to draw lines and shade - they arent too pushed about teaching you how to sketch a masterpiece or anything. Only yourself and your own practise are going to do that. Dont expect to graduate and be thrown straight into Bungie Studios to be the lead design on the next Halo Killer: you're going to be a code monkey for a couple years before you (or I) ever get a real chance as a design lead.

^ Very important bit, people came in in 1st year expecting to be modeling and building levels, I have done only a couple of weeks of that so far in 3rd year and, while I like it, it's not very central to the course. So we had 55ish people in 1st year, that dropped to about 40 for second year, we now have 15ish people, so you can probably guess that it gets hard in 2nd year.

Be good with physics, (differentiation and integration) and you will have more time to study data structures(all the bacon in the world can't prepare you for that), you should be OK to pass 2nd year then.

Overheal

Ditto on the Data Structures I already need some remedial work

Moonbeam

Not sure if you know this but -
We get free college and uni fees in this country but a an international student you probably won't so do check the fees for the course,they can be very steep sometimes.

Rach

Overheal

Oh thats very true. I was freaked about those, being from seattle originally myself. I qualify under some scheme though where Im treated as Irish for fees: because I've lived in the country 3 of the last 5 years and paid taxes for those years (actually ive lived 8 straight but thats the policy) or something along those lines.

So I pay 800 euro like any other irish student. If I wanted to do my course otherwise it would cost me in the region of 15,000 euro to register. You will want to get a hold of ITC and ask for your particular course though - it varies. Software courses I think the variance is in what software licenses they provide for you and expertise and all that bull.

gosimeon

Hi there

I'm currently studying Communications and PR here in Carlow. There is a girl from America in my class, and she is doing fine, hasn't had any big problems.

The IT itself is small compared to most American colleges - it has less than 3000 students. IT facilities are excellent though and I have a few friends doing various IT courses and they all find them challenging, interesting and enjoyable.

Oh and on your "geeky" things to do issue - there is a Compsoc here and also an Anime Society.

Carlow is fun enough - good night life and all.

Hope it works out for you mate!

SeattleBlue

I got email today stating that I have been accepted to the honours computer science program at IT Carlow. Now comes the fun part, getting my affairs in order and selling my house.

Overheal

yay! meet you at the pub.

Genghiz Cohen

Overheal wrote: »

yay! meet you at the pub.

+1

conzy

This is a cool thread! Hope everything works out..

btw, there is a pretty good Gaming scene in Ireland, There are large lan parties every few months and some good online communities too..

Did you post on Unreal.ie recently?

SeattleBlue

Haven't posted anything to Unreal.ie. I'm more of an RTS guy with exception of a few console shooters like Call of Duty 4 and the obligatory Halo 3. Is there a fair amount of people on xbox live in Ireland?

Genghiz Cohen

SeattleBlue wrote: »

Haven't posted anything to Unreal.ie. I'm more of an RTS guy with exception of a few console shooters like Call of Duty 4 and the obligatory Halo 3. Is there a fair amount of people on xbox live in Ireland?

Yup.

conzy

check out the games forum and start adding people!

aynon

join compsoc! we have a server this year!

Ivan

For the record aynon, I'll give you the same headsup I gave the over-zealous Netsoc crowd, computers are great, societies are great and giving your computer/society a nod here or there is fine, but purposefully lamenting the existence of said computer related society for no other reason other than to promote it is spam.

Spam of any sort is not tolerated on boards and may result in action being taken against your account. Be forewarned, check the charter(s) if you are unsure and consult a Mod through PMs if you are still not completely sure of where you stand.

Because ultimately, I dont care if you get banned, it needed to be said

SeattleBlue

On to more practical matters. What bank and broadband company do people recommend?

ShayK1

whichever one is giving the most free stuff to join at the time.

I'm with AIB and Clearwire. No complaints with either

aynon

im with AIB also, no complaints, eircom BB, meh....

s4dd

There's also something to be said about the relatively smaller class sizes than some of the larger institutes in the country - there tends to be more "one on one" attention, which tends to be a Good Thing.


(tends to be)

Ivan

I 3rd the vote for AIB, though I'm almost at the end of the gravy train it was a helluva ride. That and the fact that there is (was) an AIB within the college goes a long way. At the very least there'll be an AIB atm there which will allow you to check your balance regularly, vital for any college student!

tom_ass19

4th for AIB but maybe the broadband discussion could be taken to the broadband section coz honestly this could go on for ages about which bb is better

Genghiz Cohen

Don't touch Ice broadband either way. Unlimited download cap is great, but being able to actually use the connection would be better.

ShayK1

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Don't touch Ice broadband either way. Unlimited download cap is great, but being able to actually use the connection would be better.

Agreed. My brother has it. NIGHTMARE!!!

aynon

so to go away from bb. when are you moving on over here? is it for the sept semister?

wheres me jumpa

AIB served me well also. Just got switched off my student account two weeks ago, memories.

SeattleBlue

I should be there sometime in August and will be based in Kildare for a brief period until I find suitable housing in Carlow.

Now a question about part-time jobs in Carlow. Depending on how much I get for my house and how fast the dollar drops before then its possible I'll run out of cash by the end of my third year. I'm looking into the possibility of three month contracts during my summer breaks in the States but that can be hit or miss. Being a small town and having a lot of college students are part-time jobs hard to come by? And what types of work do they usually consist of?

aynon

right you are asking an unusally question in a usual way. part time work is fleeting. at present 3 factories closed in carlow. so there are alot of workers floating. but if you try hard enough and have a car a job can be hard but with a bit of effort not too hard.
apparently there is a computer company opening on the out skirts of carlow. dont know when and what will be available. homebase(british hardware store) is also opening up, which i have an interview for tomorrow. alot of part time work these days in carlow consists of shelf packin, etc. other then that i dont know.

SeattleBlue

That's what I figured. I should be fine but I always plan for the worst case scenario. If the sky does decide to fall I can also take a year off school to work in the states and come back.

aynon

worst comes to worst you can commute to dubin to work....

Overheal

I've been looking around for part time work this year and for the great extent it just isnt there: positions that do open up must be getting filled by non-students (damn you polish!), some positions have even started to edit their signs with 'not suitable for students'.. blarg. The sky is falling.....

SeattleBlue

I got my bill the other day so I'm wiring my tuition money over on Monday. I'm so excited it's finally going to happen. I started relieving myself of possesions a couple days ago and it's now starting to sink in that this is actually happening.

I would just like to thank everyone for being so awesome and helpful. You've all helped me be much more confident about my decision to move over there and go to school. I appreciate the straight-forward and honest discussion about the good the bad and the ugly.

--Rob

experiMental

Overheal wrote: »

I've been looking around for part time work this year and for the great extent it just isnt there: positions that do open up must be getting filled by non-students (damn you polish!), some positions have even started to edit their signs with 'not suitable for students'.. blarg. The sky is falling.....

QFT, mate. Especially concerning the polish people who are taking most student jobs. Some of those people are either: rejects from the Polish job market OR people who want to buy new cars, expensive gifts for their boy/gorlfriends or just greedy and want more money. I know this for a fact because many Ukrainian people from the area where I used to live are working in Poland. The competition for work was high. They got jobs there because they are better qualified and more experienced than the native workers were.

aynon

how does that relate to ireland and this thread? i know alot of polish ppl over here are here to stay. they are married here and the such. even in student jobs.
its down basicly, to what you want to degrade yourself to. if you dont mind working in mcdonalds or supermacs, you'll fly.
if its specially computer jobs you want, keep trying

Overheal

ha. right - I DID actually get an interview at cantec in october. turns out im not really "salesman" material (ie. not having the heart to tell someone about OpenOffice.org - i will instead push a 300 euro copy of MS Office on them? How harsh!)

as for McD: oh trust - I've applied. have my housemate working there and all. according to him its full of foreigners. why? I dont ****ing know. They just like hiring foreigners. And not the GOOD kind of foreigners like me either.

Ivan

Guys, keep it on topic please and away from the distinctly racist overtones that I see on the horizon...

SeattleBlue

What are some good websites where I can price electronics? I want to see what's worth shipping and what's better to be purchased over there.

aynon

in america-buy.com
in ireland-komplett.ie dabs.ie
those are the ones that are used mostly over here(in ireland line). and to say about the racist overtones. i definitely know one irish person who works in ther. if you feel that they are hiring foreign workers over equally or higher qualified cadidates from ireand(or america, overheal), make a good old fashioned call to the equality commission, they will investigate as a third party.