Arm the Gardai?

Dave!

Hey folks,

this topic has been cropping up quite alot lately, with the increase in gang activity and murders.

Wouldn't mind getting the opinion of the people on the front line, so to speak!

Gardai - do ye WANT to be armed? what about your fellow Gardai, have they indicated that they want to be armed, or would they prefer the rank and file to be unarmed?

Other police - same questions if ye are not armed If ye are (I think the PSNI are), does it make you feel safer? Ever had to use it?

Should be interesting to hear what ye have to say.

Fellow civvies, feel free to chip in with your opinion

Dr Strange

Well, coming from a country where police is armed I would say yes, they should be armed nowadays. I found it quite interesting to see that the Gardai have to face a sawn-off shotgun during a robbery with their night-stick.

However, I do believe this can only be done if there is disciplined and committed firearms training. I have been over here quite some years now and came across cases were a Garda got killed/injured by another Garda's firearm.

Regular firearms training should be a must if the Gardai are to be armed. Strict conduct and adherence to safety rules etc. Maybe start with building a purpose-built firearms range for the Gardai first though.

kaimera

Heh, actually had this conversation with some friends over the weekend.

Only problem is that it was after a night out so I honestly couldn't tell you what the consensus was

Dave!

Ahh boo-urns kaimera :mad: If those thoughts become a bit clearer, feel free to post them

metman

Next year I'm moving to a unit that has an armed capability, so yes I wish to work armed. However I don't think routine arming of the Gardai or the Police here is necessary as yet, besides we all know people we wouldn't trust with a sharpened pencil let alone a Glock or MP5.

While I have come across firearms on duty I have never felt that I need a firearm to do my job as a response officer. On the other hand, routine arming with taser would be ideal. On occasion I, like most officers, have struggled with very violent suspects off their faces on crack/alcohol/other/all of the above, that have proven all but impervious to pain compliance techniques...where you wind up bundling on a load of old bill and trussing the suspect up like a turkey with cuffs and leg restraints. Last time round, I got kicked in the head, my colleague got headbutted and another had his nose broken as we tried to get the slag into the van, all the while the suspect spat mouthfuls of his own blood (he'd been bottled in a club after being racially abusive) at us as a crowd gathered and started shouting "police brutality"! Taser would sort this kind of individual out sharpish giving officers the chance to gain compliance quickly and effectively.

Time Magazine

Enough Gardaí are armed.

cold_filter

metman wrote: »

Next year I'm moving to a unit that has an armed capability, so yes I wish to work armed. However I don't think routine arming of the Gardai or the Police here is necessary as yet, besides we all know people we wouldn't trust with a sharpened pencil let alone a Glock or MP5.

While I have come across firearms on duty I have never felt that I need a firearm to do my job as a response officer. On the other hand, routine arming with taser would be ideal. On occasion I, like most officers, have struggled with very violent suspects off their faces on crack/alcohol/other/all of the above, that have proven all but impervious to pain compliance techniques...where you wind up bundling on a load of old bill and trussing the suspect up like a turkey with cuffs and leg restraints. Last time round, I got kicked in the head, my colleague got headbutted and another had his nose broken as we tried to get the slag into the van, all the while the suspect spat mouthfuls of his own blood (he'd been bottled in a club after being racially abusive) at us as a crowd gathered and started shouting "police brutality"! Taser would sort this kind of individual out sharpish giving officers the chance to gain compliance quickly and effectively.

As a joe soap, i think gardai should have tasers.

timmywex

an interesting idea here thanks to the garda inspectorate;

Under the plan members of the second
tier armed response unit would be
established regionally and would be
issued with specially customised patrol
vehicles which would carry arms
in secure locked strongboxes. The
members would patrol normally and
carry out standard garda duties in
standard uniform. On being called
to an incident the members would
change into a uniform similar to that
of the ERU and proceed to the scene
where they would provide an armed
resource for the on-scene commander.

cp251

There is still resistance to it but I think it will come. The current crop of gangsters have no qualms about shooting a Garda. Eventually a couple of Garda will be executed by one of these guys. A hitman covering his tracks or whatever. Then it will get serious. The old style criminals usually avoided shooting Garda even when chased by them. Not the new mob. The very idea of unarmed officers chasing down and armed gunman is insane.

There is a considerable mystique about guns in the this country. Look, they are nothing more than tools to be used as neccessary. The Commisioner said that he wanted to keep the good relationship the Gardai have with the public at large so he was against arming them. I'm not sure how the sight of a gun impacts the publics perception. It doesn't anywhere in the rest of Europe. Besides with the new uniforms and equipment, sometimes there is a decidedly paramilitary look about the Garda. Everything but the gun.

ex_infantry man

coming from military backround i must say yes and agree that the gardai should have some form of extra protection i.e.tazer or handguns as todays criminals are better armed than even the army don,t know about the training but there better armed anyway and the gardai are at greater risk nowadays of getting shot at in there line of work than 20 or 30 years ago

Dave!

timmywex wrote: »

an interesting idea here thanks to the garda inspectorate;

Under the plan members of the second
tier armed response unit would be
established regionally and would be
issued with specially customised patrol
vehicles which would carry arms
in secure locked strongboxes. The
members would patrol normally and
carry out standard garda duties in
standard uniform. On being called
to an incident the members would
change into a uniform similar to that
of the ERU and proceed to the scene
where they would provide an armed
resource for the on-scene commander.

I don't see much merit in that suggestion TBH... I thought the idea of arming them was to protect the Gardaí against things like what happened recently, where a Garda on a motorbike stopped a car only to be shot from point blank range with a sawn off shotgun. Wouldn't be much point in having a gun in a secure box in that circumstance!

steveland?

As a member of the public myself I'd agree that Gardai should be armed in principal.

I was held up at gunpoint once and it wasn't a fun experience. The Gardai eventually caught the guy and it turned out to be a fake gun (a proper replica now, not a toy... I'm not that stupid ). I know I'd feel safer (in principal) if the Gardai were equally armed as the pricks that go around shooting and maiming people.

However, I'd think there'd need to be some serious psychological vetting of each Garda before they get a gun. I mean no offense here and have great respect for the Gardai but the few bad apples around, the nutters you find in every line of work, could make any plan to arm the Gardai very messy.

I also don't agree with the traffic corps and certain other branches being armed. I know the case of the guy pulling over the car and getting shot point blank shows that everyone's in the line of fire but I don't see it being necessary to arm every Gard as a matter of course.

If everyone who could potentially be shot at was carrying a gun for defence then all of us would have a gloc down our cacks and we'd turn into the gun totin' USA fairly quickly

eroo

personally,i think the solution lies w/ ARV's(Armed Response Vehicles).Down here in Limerick the Gardai have FINALLY gotten a full-time armed response unit(http://www.independent.ie/national-news/new-armed-garda-squad-to-take-on-city-gang--bosses-1085425.html)
and there is plans to have ARV's in every district;http://www.independent.ie/national-news/new-garda-swat-squads-to-combat-gang-crime-1166272.html
I always believed that ARV's were absolutely essential as they would act as a deterent and as a preventitive measure.I live beside Limerick City and its only when things got bad that they used to bring down the ERU...a reactive measure!
It was obvious that the ERU/SDU could not act as armed patrol units in every flashpoint in the country simply because they do not have manpower and these units are not designed for that.So ARV's,IMO, would allow Gardai in districts outside of Dublin feel much safer as they know that if needed,they can get back-up off of SPECIALIST armed units and not the local DDU who are swamped w/ work as it is..
In Dublin you have SDU,ERU,NBCI/OCU and NSU as well as countless DDU's to back you up if necessary.Whereas in cities like Cork and Limerick,specially trained firearms teams are hard to get...well until recently for Limerick.
Basically,if we operate a system similiar to CO19 in London in each City/District then there is no need to arm uniform Gardai as they would have sufficient armed back-up if needed...
Well,thats just my 2cents on it!

BTW,metman and JonAnderton,how do ye feel about ARV's?i.e. are they sufficient back-up,do you feel safer knowing they are only a few mins away at any given time,and have you ever had to call on them?

eroo

eroo

oh yes,slightly off-topic but,am i the only one who thinks Limerick should get a permanent Garda Heli??This could also cover Cork..

timmywex

eroo wrote: »

and there is plans to have ARV's in every district;http://www.independent.ie/national-news/new-garda-swat-squads-to-combat-gang-crime-1166272.html
I always believed that ARV's were absolutely essential as they would act as a deterent and as a preventitive measure.I live beside Limerick City and its only when things got bad that they used to bring down the ERU...a reactive measure!

eroo

thats the article i was looking for re my post above, i like the idea personally, but think it should be every county eventually, it can take a while to getaround some areas, but it could nearly be sorted when these new divisons come in.

eroo

Well,the only problem w/ having units in every county is that it could be a waste...For example look at Co.Roscommon or Co.Kerry.These counties are mainly rural so the units would have to cover a vast area where there is,most of the time,little or no armed crime.The ERU are designed to deploy to these areas for op's but there is never any need for them to be deployed to 'saturate' a flashpoint simply because flashpoints do not exist in these 2 example counties.There may be high levels of crime in certain towns but nothing local units w/ local DDU shouldn't be able to handle.
I mean,if you are part of a 3 man team in an ARV tasked with patrolling Tralee I would imagine you would;either get bored fairly quickly and realise you will be lucky to get 2 or 3 call outs A YEAR;OR carry out mainly uniform unit activities..

timmywex

eroo wrote: »

Well,the only problem w/ having units in every county is that it could be a waste...For example look at Co.Roscommon or Co.Kerry.These counties are mainly rural so the units would have to cover a vast area where there is,most of the time,little or no armed crime.The ERU are designed to deploy to these areas for op's but there is never any need for them to be deployed to 'saturate' a flashpoint simply because flashpoints do not exist in these 2 example counties.There may be high levels of crime in certain towns but nothing local units w/ local DDU shouldn't be able to handle.
I mean,if you are part of a 3 man team in an ARV tasked with patrolling Tralee I would imagine you would;either get bored fairly quickly and realise you will be lucky to get 2 or 3 call outs A YEAR;OR carry out mainly uniform unit activities..

yeh, good point actualy, didnt think of them counties!

CLADA

eroo wrote: »

personally,i think the solution lies w/ ARV's(Armed Response Vehicles).Down here in Limerick the Gardai have FINALLY gotten a full-time armed response unit(http://www.independent.ie/national-news/new-armed-garda-squad-to-take-on-city-gang--bosses-1085425.html)
and there is plans to have ARV's in every district;http://www.independent.ie/national-news/new-garda-swat-squads-to-combat-gang-crime-1166272.html

Hello eroo, just to let you know article number 2 is pretty much what Timmywex posted earlier. These are kathleen O Tooles recommendations as contained in the Garda Inspectorates report.
It is envisaged that a dedicated armed response team will operate in each Garda region.

When you consider selection of personnel, training etc... it will be well into next year before any of these units are up and running and that includes the Limerick unit.

I'm sure Ms O Toole will be amused to read how the idea for an armed response team came from Limerick citys regeneration committee.

eroo

Hi CLADA,what do you think of ARV's??

Remmy

I think this arv idea would be very good!

Is it in the pipeline to happen or just an idea?

Anyone wonder what the selection process will be like as far as joining up once your in the uniformed ranks?Also are they set to mirror the ERU as far as equipment and tactics?

eroo

I think they are going to be 'pilot projects' first...

Well,they would have same firearms training and vehicle training as ERU but their tactics would probably be no where near as specialised..but I could be wrong

CLADA

eroo wrote: »

Hi CLADA,what do you think of ARV's??

I think they are long overdue.

However I'm not sure about having to change into the superman gear and unlocking the safe if they get a call.:rolleyes:

civdef

There's also the issue that ARV's are rarely on scene when they're at their most needed, as the (separate) cases of PC's Ian Broadhhurst and Sharon Beshenivsky in West Yorkshire showed in recent years.

CLADA

civdef wrote: »

There's also the issue that ARV's are rarely on scene when they're at their most needed, as the (separate) cases of PC's Ian Broadhhurst and Sharon Beshenivsky in West Yorkshire showed in recent years.

mmmmmm We shall have to look into the omnipresent tactic:D

the locust

Im for arming the Gardai rank and file. We need to get with the rest of europe, the world, is becoming a worse place.

At present we have armed Gardai but no one can see them cause there in plain clothes, i think this has more disadvantages than advantages.

We need them rank and file as a visual deterant, like in the North. Most countries (exclude the US cause they are nuts) that have armed uniformed police rarely have to use them (most of EU).

It would improve the authority and respect of the individual Guard big time as well as reducing organised crime level

TheNog

Remmy wrote: »

I think this arv idea would be very good!

Is it in the pipeline to happen or just an idea?

Anyone wonder what the selection process will be like as far as joining up once your in the uniformed ranks?Also are they set to mirror the ERU as far as equipment and tactics?

I believe arv's are in the pipeline.

I have heard the selection is 2 yrs minimum service and the training/selection will be on par with eru selection.

TheNog

timmywex wrote: »

an interesting idea here thanks to the garda inspectorate;

Under the plan members of the second
tier armed response unit would be
established regionally and would be
issued with specially customised patrol
vehicles which would carry arms
in secure locked strongboxes. The
members would patrol normally and
carry out standard garda duties in
standard uniform. On being called
to an incident the members would
change into a uniform similar to that
of the ERU and proceed to the scene
where they would provide an armed
resource for the on-scene commander.

does anyone else think the arv would be used in hostage situations only?

The key here is the number of arv members in each division. It is no good to have say 2 arv members patrol new division Meath. Six armed members would be sufficient 24hrs a day.

Black Swan

Why do people think that guns are the solution to fighting crime? If guns are the solution, let's give the gardai a huge tactical advantage over the bad guys? How about giving them sub and heavy machine guns, RPG's, T-70 tanks, howitzers, and flight cover with armed helos and fighter jets? If any innocent bystanders get caught in the spray of bullets or blasts, no problem. The news media dehumanizes innocent victims by labeling them collateral damage.

Orrrrrrrr... as an alternative, we could consider several non-gun solutions to fighting crime? Community policing might be a start, where gardai are increasely integrated within our communities? Neighborhood education and watch, were citizens start taking responsibility for their communities? Better clearing of immigrants to Ireland in terms of background checks? Offering rewards and incentives to citizens to buy and reduce the number of guns on the street? Providing better pay, benefits, and training to gardai, so that it becomes a profession that competes better with other occupations in public and private sector?

JonAnderton

Thats sounds very similar to how our ARV's started out.

Back in the day, the model 10's would be carried unloaded in the safe along with two MP5's. There were three authority levels:

Trojan Alpha: Go to the scene and assess
Trojan Delta: Prepare to deploy firearms

Both needed the authority of a Commander or controller of the Incident Room.

Officers were allowed to self arm if they came across something direct.

I know of one story where the on call comander would not give permission to the ARV unit to tool up when chasing an armed suspect because on a previous occasion when he was on call the ARV had self armed without his permission.

over the years, the ARV's evolved with the handguns being stored loaded and made ready, then being overtly carried. Nowadays, although permission is technically still required to initiate a firearms incident, trojan allways deploy with 'appropriate' means.

I work in an armed unit and although we don't repsond to the run of the mill calls, we have our own responsibilities and are always getting flagged down by people in the street to deal with one thing or another, so often do deal with routine police work. Most of the time, the public have no idea they are dealing with an armed officer unless it's pointed out to them.

It was drilled into us from the beginning to be aware that we've got a firearm. They don't like mixing firearms and public order so we don't get called to any fights or the like unless it's an urgent assistance. You've also got to remember that armed officers are still a bit of a novelty so people tend to watch you a bit more and be more curious about what you're doing.

I don't think that the answer is to blanket arm everbody with firearms, it would change the way we (and I include the gards throughout this post) would Police.
I think an increase in the Garda's armed capability and possibly the arming of Garda vehicles with the crews firearms trained (at least to a level to do an initial containment).

As mentioned, numbers is an important factor as well. Without going into too much detail, although you only need two poeple to put in a containment, you'd need at least two crews to be most efficient. Also, as a side note. PSNI , while routinly armed, are only begining to start proper ARV style training. There's a difference between being a normal offcier who happens to be armed, and being in an ARV or protection role.

Tasers would be more benifical to the gard on the beat

metman

eroo wrote: »

Basically,if we operate a system similiar to CO19 in London in each City/District then there is no need to arm uniform Gardai as they would have sufficient armed back-up if needed...
Well,thats just my 2cents on it!

BTW,metman and JonAnderton,how do ye feel about ARV's?i.e. are they sufficient back-up,do you feel safer knowing they are only a few mins away at any given time,and have you ever had to call on them?

eroo

I have been involved in a number of firearms jobs over the years and have see ARV crews do their thing. They're a professional outfit and generally scare the **** out of the villains on the receiving end. In London armed back up is never far away and imo the system in place works well. The standard of training for the crews is high as is their competence, whereas were we to routinely arm officers it would be difficult to achieve and maintain such high standards across the board....some coppers I know struggle to pass the basic fitness test, let alone a firearms one :rolleyes:

I think adopting the ARV model would suit the Garda as well. Have units based regionally with decent motors, out patrolling or training. For those that want to see their tax euro at work; the county constabulary model of dual role ARV/Traffic vehicle would also work. These officers function as traffic officers with the additonal function or arv if required. This makes sense as traffic generally don't attend local calls, have good motors, are advanced drivers and have access to anpr on board cameras etc.

Mutz

I strongly disagree with the armament of uniform Gardai with pistols. Its not that bad in ireland (or dublin) yet. Fair enough there's been a few bad incidents in the recent months, but thank god no deaths.

I could say most uniform Guards wouldn't want one. As I've said before its a massive ordeal when you draw and use your baton - Imagine discharging a firearm! You'd be writing paper for years to come and would probably be prosecuted by the Ombudsman!

It sounds like that poor traffic guard who got shot in the North Inner City wouldn't even have had the time to draw a gun, had he been issued with one.

Armed response units is the way to go. At least put an armed element that will always compliment the District regular uniform units (24 hour/7Days - always and no exceptions).

Armed assistance is usually short on the ground and its always when they're not around the **** hits the fan in a big way.

the locust

Good points, i'd argue for arming Gardai ethier with glocks or taser or whatever. Not because we live in a warzone, we dont live in South African slums or in Basra, obviously. We do have billions of euros of drugs going through our country and serious enough criminals

I think police should be armed, because they are police. Their badge and uniform is thier authority and a weapon is a physical reminder of their power, whether they use it or not.

Again, most cops that carry guns have never had to fire them.

Its the psychological presence of a law enforcer carrying a weapon. Regardless if its a firearm or a less lethal weapon.

Sounds a bit mad, but I love the impact submachine guns have on a airport - people know not to mess and people know they are safe.

Same impact the Taser has when its drawn, (as reported by merseyside cops) - the red cross/dot has a psychological effect on someone who its pointed at, cause they know they are about to 'get tased' and back down.

John Kimble

cp251 wrote: »

There is still resistance to it but I think it will come. The current crop of gangsters have no qualms about shooting a Garda. Eventually a couple of Garda will be executed by one of these guys. A hitman covering his tracks or whatever. Then it will get serious. The old style criminals usually avoided shooting Garda even when chased by them. Not the new mob. The very idea of unarmed officers chasing down and armed gunman is insane.

I don't think that's a particularly compelling argument. I haven't got exact figures to hand but as far as I know, more Gardai were killed on duty during the 1980s (about 8 I think), due to the amount of armed robberies at the time, than in the following two decades. If there wasn't sufficent reason to arm them back then, then why now?

eroo

Just for anyone who does not know much about ARV's or anyone who would like to know more about ARV's,may I suggest picking up this book?Great read,as JonAnderton tipped on,it has the origins of ARV's and more..
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Armed-Response-Inside-Scotland-Yards/dp/0753510499/ref=pd_bbs_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197994083&sr=1-3

eroo

TheNog wrote: »

I believe arv's are in the pipeline.

I have heard the selection is 2 yrs minimum service and the training/selection will be on par with eru selection.

Forgive me for sounding like an absolute Walt,but what exactly is their selection like?I mean I have read a lot about ARW selection but ERU/ARV's...

purple'n'gold

the locust wrote: »

Good points, i'd argue for arming Gardai ethier with glocks or taser or whatever. Not because we live in a warzone, we dont live in South African slums or in Basra, obviously. We do have billions of euros of drugs going through our country and serious enough criminals

I think police should be armed, because they are police. Their badge and uniform is thier authority and a weapon is a physical reminder of their power, whether they use it or not.

Again, most cops that carry guns have never had to fire them.

Its the psychological presence of a law enforcer carrying a weapon. Regardless if its a firearm or a less lethal weapon.

Sounds a bit mad, but I love the impact submachine guns have on a airport - people know not to mess and people know they are safe.

Same impact the Taser has when its drawn, (as reported by merseyside cops) - the red cross/dot has a psychological effect on someone who its pointed at, cause they know they are about to 'get tased' and back down.

Check out the link below and see what a Taser does in the hands of a sadistic cowboy cop.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1297437,00.html

mox54

there are armed Garda on the streets every day and most half intelligent crooks know this and don't bother their arses taking on certain crimes because they know armed units are available or there already, we also have plenty of arms and capability available if ever needed so I see no need to arm every Garda, this may give rise to stupid addicts having a pop and getting a bullet in the belly rather than a kick in the arse, I think the current situation is fine as is, the Garda are a very cute and well informed lot and can handle the current situation given time and resources!:cool:

TheNog

eroo wrote: »

Forgive me for sounding like an absolute Walt,but what exactly is their selection like?I mean I have read a lot about ARW selection but ERU/ARV's...

TBH I don't have the full facts on it but did hear in the college that they go on runs with 50lbs (i think) rucksacks on the backs, go on 3-4 day hikes and I did see them practice using sniper rifles on the college grounds. Now when i say practice they didn't shoot cos there is no range in the college but they seemed to be getting used to holding them properly and using the weapon sights. I tried to talk to a few of them but some just ignored me and others politely told me the **** off. They must have to keep the training secret or else they just didnt like students

metman

purplengold wrote: »

Check out the link below and see what a Taser does in the hands of a sadistic cowboy cop.

Well at least you're keeping an open mind about the investigation :rolleyes:

Taser records when its fired and how many times to assist any post-incident investigation into misuse or to counter any malicious allegations.

Spyral

gardi with guns... no thanks... air tasers would probably be better. But they would probably be over used. Like if some bellend gardai decides that he's had enough arguing with a drunk ZAAPP as opposed to old fashioned policing.

eroo

http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/other_information/corporate/so19_introduction.pdf

Basic info on CO19 ARV's

eroo

TheNog wrote: »

TBH I don't have the full facts on it but did hear in the college that they go on runs with 50lbs (i think) rucksacks on the backs, go on 3-4 day hikes and I did see them practice using sniper rifles on the college grounds. Now when i say practice they didn't shoot cos there is no range in the college but they seemed to be getting used to holding them properly and using the weapon sights. I tried to talk to a few of them but some just ignored me and others politely told me the **** off. They must have to keep the training secret or else they just didnt like students

ya i heard it is pretty rough alright..i missed the guys in the Tactical Training Unit by a few mins when i was down there last time(a tour,not in there yet!).they said if they were around they'd talk to me about PT but..was not to be..pity as i like my PT so they could have given some solid advice!

eroo

Spyral wrote: »

gardi with guns... no thanks... air tasers would probably be better. But they would probably be over used. Like if some bellend gardai decides that he's had enough arguing with a drunk ZAAPP as opposed to old fashioned policing.

'old fashioned policing'?suppose they try and arrest him and then he pulls a knife...what now??

At the moment Gardai do not overuse their batons/ASP's s why do you think they would start if they got TASERS?

civdef

There's a fair bit of ****e starting to creep onto this thread, posters should remind themselves that this ain't AH.

metman

Some stuff on ARV training here for those who haven't caught this on Sky.

JonAnderton

with regards the training. the met provide two main types of course. the full ARV and an initial AFO (what i've done). both are tough and the prinicpals are the same except the ARV's go deeper into it. the initial couse has over a 50%. I know plenty of fella's who have passed the ARV course and said it was one of the best courses they ever done.

Anyone really interested in the area of armed police shoild read Michael (mike) Waldrons book 'armed police'. it covers the UK, mainly the Met's, use of firearms from 1945 until the present day. it goes through everything including the setting up of the ARV unit and all the problems, policies and procdures throughout that time. Waldren was himself a firearms officer and ended up head of SO19

Roger greys book 'armed response' mentioned above is a terrific insight in ARV life. I cuurently work with a Bloke who's mentioned in the book and was one of Grey's PC's. he said he loved it but in the beginning they got a lot of flack off the powers that be...

eroo

civdef wrote: »

There's a fair bit of ****e starting to creep onto this thread, posters should remind themselves that this ain't AH.

But I don't see anything that doesn't fit in this thread,it is all ES related and on topic..

eroo

JonAnderton wrote: »

but in the beginning they got a lot of flack off the powers that be...

you can bet the Gardai will have all of that ahead of them!

JonAnderton,how do you feel about being armed?Do you feel safer? or in even greater danger due to the fact that you could be frontline response to armed incidents?
Just that if we were to arm all Gardai,every single Garda would have to realise they could be the first response to an armed robbery..

eroo

Hagar

Civdef has given a polite nudge to keep things as they should be.

Please do not dispute mod directions/decisions on thread. Thank you.

JonAnderton

i think any police officer or gard could be the frontline response to an armed incident.. and they usually are.

i work in a protection department and am often out in vehicles. It's more fraustraing not being able to be assigned to a call, eg two males fighting, because of the public order aspect. It used to annoy me when a vehicle you checked out required a firearms stop and your nearest ARV was 10 minutes away.Whilst we have our own resonsabilities, we still monitor local radio channels and if something comes across that we can assist with, most of us will jump at the chance.. we didnt do the course for nothing.

What also should be remembered is that currently, all firearms officers volunteer to carry. if you fully arm the service, theres going to be a lot of people who dont want to be armed. always better to have a volunteer than a pressed man

eroo

Thanks JonAnderton,nice to have someone speaking from experience w/ firearms