gas for HFC M9

Masada

just wondering what other gases i can use with this pistol, the green gas is pretty hopeless in this cold so im wondering if i can use anything else like red gas, 134a or whatever other ones there is.,?

(is red and 134a the same thing?)

cheers,

Shiva

134a is even lower pressure than green, so it'd be worse.

Propane will give you in and around the same results as green, possibly very slightly better.

I don't know enough about red to say either way - it all depends on how much more powerful it is. I wouldn't risk it myself, unless its extremely cold.

Even if it does work, be careful about pushing the power up over the limit.

vtec wrote: »

just wondering what other gases i can use with this pistol, the green gas is pretty hopeless in this cold so im wondering if i can use anything else like red gas, 134a or whatever other ones there is.,?

(is red and 134a the same thing?)

cheers,

Masada

oh so 134a is lower and red is a lot more powerful then., do you sell the red gas then tony? might try it out on the bell and if its ok use it on the hfc.,

zero19

How bout the mystical black gas? lol Supposedly the strongest of all gases

Masada

black gas? what the hells that? darth vaders breath?
lol.,

Shiva

vtec wrote: »

oh so 134a is lower and red is a lot more powerful then., do you sell the red gas then tony? might try it out on the bell and if its ok use it on the hfc.,

Nah, I don't sell it. I don't think I've ever noticed it on an airsoft site actually. But I haven't been looking.

kdouglas

read somewhere before that black gas is an airsoft urban myth

haven't tried red gas but in this weather, it might be ok

Masada

might give the red a go then, its not gonna get warm enough for green until about may anyway.,lol,
cheers everyone.,

Gatling

elvis is alive and invented black gas,

i heard (now correct me if im wrong) not all guns are designed to use red gas ,most are made specificly for green, il check the AI gas article to see what it says

kdouglas

yes, but they are made for green gas pressure at 20 degrees celsius, it was only about 5 degrees out there yesterday...

Best thing to do is find a comparison of pressures of red and green gas at 20 degrees and then see if you can find out the pressure at 5 or 10 degrees

ED E

Get this monts, or was it last months AI. Had a whole article on gasses and why they do what they do.:)

kdouglas

Knew i saw it somewhere, thought it was online, ill dig out the pressures from last month's AI mag when I get home

Masada

nice one KD., the green is just usless in this cold, a lot of the time the pressure isnt good enough to throw the slide back and the gas all spurts out of the mag then.,

Gatling

have AI infront of me ,red gas is only reccomended for heavily metalised moded GBB and only on exceptionly cold days , propane seems to be recommended over red gas, Kd page 32 the fps comparisments over nbb and gbb , might be worth a chrono test one of saturdays , vtec -green gas at 20 degree 115 psi red gas at 20 degrees 180 psi

kdouglas

ah but the question is, what's the pressure of red gas at 5 degrees.... think it's hfc22, ill go look it up

Shiva

kdouglas wrote: »

ah but the question is, what's the pressure of red gas at 5 degrees.... think it's hfc22, ill go look it up

HFC 22 is green gas, isnt it ?

kdouglas

yea, found that out pretty quick

so it's hfc143a > green gas (hfc22) /propane > red gas

but what hfc is red gas?


Edit: according to http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/index.php?showtopic=86059 red gas is hfc22 or Chlorodifluoromethane

just had a look at that wiki page, that stuff is seriously harmful to the environment and humans, probably shouldn't be using it

but then again, airsplat have red gas for sale in a red can with a sticker on the front which says green gas here:

kdouglas

Redwolf have some red gas: http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/ProductDetail?prodID=8706

If green gas really is propane, then it wouldn't have a HFC number, right?

So if that's the case HFC22 is red gas

From a bit of searching any mention of black gas seems to be that it is actually co2 because co2 canisters are generally black

Edit: Success! From http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=1441&highlight=red+gas

Shiva

Has anyone ever called you an overachiever ?

kdouglas

Oh it gets better:

kdouglas

Decided to throw all the info I found above into a post on my blog: http://www.airsofthacks.com/2007/12/got-gas-airsoft-gas-whats-what/

o1s1n

kdouglas wrote: »

Decided to throw all the info I found above into a post on my blog: http://www.airsofthacks.com/2007/12/got-gas-airsoft-gas-whats-what/

That's some pretty useful information. Addition to a sticky maybe?

bullets

The Article on this months AI was great. I loved the way they mentioned
the bit about peoples fear of overfilling etc and damaging the seals.
(ie they siad you cant over fill, the gas mag)

One thing, and I think it may have been mentioned on the AI article too.
134a may be less powerful and work poorer in Low Temperatures
and Propane works better but you get more shots out of the 134a
at better temps than you do with the propane.

as far as I can tell from Shooting all three gas' during the summer time (or a few months ago) or whenever I got my KJ P226.

I got nearly two mags of BB's (roughly 40 shots) with one fill of 134a gas.
I got about a mag and a 1/4 - 1/2 mag half (30 maybe) from Green gas.
I got a full mag but sometimes less out of a fill of propane.

If Green Gas is supposedly the Same as Propane I thought I would
be getting more similar results but then again it could be anything as
the mags may have been used too much before switching gas etc and
not exactly at the same temp.

May get different results with different mags too as the Mac11
fires flawlessly with all 3 gas's I tried.


~B

Gatling

so is there a major differance between 134a and green gas on a cold day ,preformance wise , has anyone used both to compare.

kdouglas

well according to the figures, 134a at 20 degrees would give about the same as green at 8 degrees....

should work fine in plastic bodied gbb's, but metal ones might have a hard time cycling

zero19

Suppose this is where owning an AEP is useful, thank you cyma lol and that's post number 500 wow

kdouglas

must dust off my aep actually....

[--SC(+)PE--]

i need to sell mine

Masada

i rigged a 9.6 to my cyma 030 the other day, the rof is insane.,lol, i stripped it and gave it a good oiling aswell and shes firing nicely now.,

what AEP you got scope? im after another one, was either another g18c or one of the MP7s from tony.,
as far as the gas temperature goes, i got about 8-10 shots out of a full mag in the m9 at hrta the other day but if i fill the mag cold and then but it beside the heater for a minute or 2 i can get 86, yep!, 86 shots out of a mag, i got tired of counting them and that was at 12degrees, never thought id get that much out of it,., the green gas doesnt seem to be any good below around 8degrees..,

some good info there KD, nice one man., does anyone know of anywhere selling red gas over here?

the m9 is full metal so in theory id say that the red gas will work without causing any damage at the average temperatures were having at the moment. i cant imagine it would be over the limit in this cold, though id have to chrono it to be sure.,
so does anyone know what exactly red gas is if its not propane like the green?.,

[--SC(+)PE--]

Got a cyma 030 glock but the lowerframe and grip have been painted khaki which takes some getting used to , basically i used it once when duel wielding it and one of my berretta's and i just dont find em fun especially when i had a Gbb in me other hand to compare to it, i also find glocks ugly as sin
I dont have pics of it and well i would say most people would dislike the paintscheme as it is different so if i can get some pics or meet someone in person at g-tac or somthing then id sell it.

Masada

id be interested in it., paint dont matter to me.,
drop me a PM if you want to sell it on..,

[--SC(+)PE--]

Pm'd, its funny i bought it for this time of year when my Gbb's are struggling but i just cant stand glocks

On topic is anyone considering getting some red gas? might be worth a few people going parts on a canister or 2 for use in the winter months.

Masada

im gonna give the red gas a bash, ill use it in the bell before i try the HFC though.,lol,

[--SC(+)PE--]

Wise,
let us know how it goes [i just basically want to use my hfc's reliably all year round] were ya getting the gas?

Masada

i havent really looked into getting it yet., im gonna check it out now., i dont think any of the irish retailers have it so looks like its searching online again for me.,

kdouglas

might put in an order from redwolf next week for some if anyone wants to go in on it? probably take a few weeks to get here by surface mail though

kdouglas

vtec wrote: »

so does anyone know what exactly red gas is if its not propane like the green?.,

all that info i posted and you still didn't read it!!! bah!

red gas is hfc22 or Chlorodifluoromethane

Gatling

kdouglas wrote: »

might put in an order from redwolf next week for some if anyone wants to go in on it? probably take a few weeks to get here by surface mail though

il go in on it ,would be ok to order a metal upgrade kit for my glock with the order ,anit putting red in with out proper mods

Masada

kdouglas wrote: »

all that info i posted and you still didn't read it!!! bah!

red gas is hfc22 or Chlorodifluoromethane

lol.,sorry K it got a little confusing but i know someone who understands all this chemistry jargon so im gonna take your info and bleed his brain a little to see if i can learn something usefull.,:D.,
Ill go in on the order wth ya also,;)

edit:gatling, dont metalise a glock, its a sin.,lol, and you have a metal slide on it dont you? i think the body will take the increase easily.,

Gatling

ive no choice if im going to use red gas ,the slide is polymer and the barrel is aluminun i think,

Masada

oh right., i thought it was metal, i was looking at a few different glocks that day.,

zero19

The 030 is a lovely piece, i have a jieke M93R AEP it's almost as good

Gatling

it looks metal alright ,it will be soon enough ,even if its ajust a slide conversion will help the G18C last longer

Masada

it has the same internals doesnt it? there way better than GBB in my opinion, there not as powerful but thats the point, you can hit someone with it at close range without them getting pissed off about it.,

Edit: go for one with glock trade marks gatling, they look class,. id go for the silver one aswell because the paint eventually comes off the painted metal ones where as you can just polish the metal one if its gets roughed up a bit.,

zero19

Yeah i think so, accurate enough too plus full auto is always good lol

Masada

zero19 wrote: »

Yeah i think so, accurate enough too plus full auto is always good lol

yeah and with a 9.6 i think it beats my M4, G36c and MP5 on rate of fire.,:D

kdouglas

Gatling wrote: »

il go in on it ,would be ok to order a metal upgrade kit for my glock with the order ,anit putting red in with out proper mods

the gas will be shipped by surface mail whereas the metal slide for the glock would be air mail, so there's no saving to be made there on shipping, this order will be for cans of red gas only, nothing else

kdouglas

Gatling wrote: »

it looks metal alright ,it will be soon enough ,even if its ajust a slide conversion will help the G18C last longer

no one makes a metal body for a glock, the real thing doesn't have one

some glock models in real steel do have a metal slide however, hence the reason why a metal slide is available for airsoft version

Gatling

Bahumbug

Stercus Accidit

Someone mentioned wondering if green is propane, what is red?

Could it be ethane?

Thats the next step down the alkane list, and I know butane sort of works but doesnt, but is less powerful.

Red could be a mix of propane and ethane but I'm wondering if this would work?

I havent done chemistry in a while, but theres my half assed theory!

Edit: difluoromonochloromethane, looks like I mashed the keyboard. Try and get that in a hardware. They use it in air conditioners in the US anyway.

kdouglas

Motosam wrote: »

Someone mentioned wondering if green is propane, what is red?

Could it be ethane?

Thats the next step down the alkane list, and I know butane sort of works but doesnt, but is less powerful.

Red could be a mix of propane and ethane but I'm wondering if this would work?

I havent done chemistry in a while, but theres my half assed theory!

Edit: difluoromonochloromethane, looks like I mashed the keyboard. Try and get that in a hardware. They use it in air conditioners in the US anyway.

Yet again, all that info I posted and nobody read it!!!