Poll concerning SS/WW2 related threads

Lemming

ambro25 wrote: »

Am I the only on to find the idea of WW2 Wehrmacht vs Y2K ACU'd US Army anachronistically wrong? :cool:

What, exactly, would such a scenario 're-enact'?

I recall an 80s (early 90s?) film (I suspect thankfully that it is dire - I only ever picked up the box before putting it back down) with the story that a large nuclear powered US aircraft carrier gets thrown back in time in a storm and finds itself in the pacific on the eve of Pearl Harbour, with the means to stop the attack ....


Just thought I'd provide that wildly off-tangent comment

Mauclerc

It's "The Final Countdown". A 1980 movie (and not very good IMHO).

16airassualt

i cant see how the idea of letting someone dress up as ss or even sa is being entertained by this poll.after the recent bad publicity and public interst in the matter,it seems obvious that the media would jump on this story like marmalade on a pineapple..and can you imagine what kind of butched story a rag like news of the world would make of it??i for one dont want this sport banned because some little minority of low self asteem wierdos feel it nessicary to hide behind an ss uniform once a week to feel big

Gizmodeon

Am I to take it that you are invoking Godwin's law?

Yes I know, the irony of me knowing about Godwin's law yet still mentioning
Nazi's :rolleyes:

I'm not a mad war nut, and I feel it is perfectly ok for someone to pretend to be SS. When they start saluting and growing oddly shaped moustaches, and trying to ethnically cleanse HRTA is when I'll get worried. One of the main things that sets us apart from paintball (sorry to mention paintball in this DIT) is the fact that we wear military attire. I understand if people don't like others wearing it, but I don't think it should be a banned issue from airsoft discussion boards.

Mweelrea

Gizmodeon wrote: »

I'm not a mad war nut, and I feel it is perfectly ok for someone to pretend to be SS. When they start saluting and growing oddly shaped moustaches, and trying to ethnically cleanse HRTA is when I'll get worried.

lol :D:D:D
oddly shaped moustaches would be worrying!

16airassualt

at the moment whatever one person does regarding airsoft,its affects are felt throughout the entire airsoft community..e.g the shady retailers at toys for big boys selling to minors. i just think its selfish that someone would jepordise the sport for the many other players just because they think they have the right to dress up as what they want so they can have their fun.what i say to them is get your head out of your arse who think of the majority of other players you could be affecting

Spetzcong

Gizmodeon wrote: »

When they start saluting and growing oddly shaped moustaches, and trying to ethnically cleanse HRTA is when I'll get worried.

By then it could be too late, first it's all fun and games and before you know it they have us all herded on to trains and off to the death camps! You can't take any chances with the Nazis

This has been an interesting discussion, and I'm coming around to the idea that perhaps we should allow the discussion of the above mentioned issues purely because I've found this thread interesting. I still think wearing SS emblems is going to cause nothing but problems for airsoft, and even just the uniforms could be difficult enough to try and justify to the media, but I don't see why we cant, as reasonable adults, have a discussion about these sorts of things. Within reason though, obviously enough i.e. no posting of pictures and all comments mindful of the sensitive nature of the issues we're discussing (in other words exactly the opposite of my tasteless comment about trains and death camps :eek:)

Spitfire666

not going to post much as gizmo's posts are basically what we where both saying when we read te thread. i voted option 3.

also, now that i have read it again, the question is should ss DISCUSsion be allowed. now personally i see that and think, of coarse it should, why shouldnt it? not talking about it is close to holocaust denial.

There is a difference between discussion and preaching/promoting ideas of the ss.

the wearing of "bad guy" uniforms just gives the british/americans something to shoot at rather then each other which could be higlhy offencive should a serving member of said forces see US/British forces shooting at friendlies?

zero19

Mauclerc wrote: »

It's "The Final Countdown". A 1980 movie (and not very good IMHO).

As the song popped in my head i will hunt down and watch this hilarious sonuding film!!! :D:D

Back to topic it's all down to public perception lads, i don't care if you have SS pyjamas a lot of people WILL be offended, don't forget we have a large amount of the Polish living here these days...

Oh and remember that episode of Father Ted? You guys know the one i mean...lol

Hivemind187

Gizmodeon wrote: »

Yes I know, the irony of me knowing about Godwin's law yet still mentioning
Nazi's :rolleyes:

I'm not a mad war nut, and I feel it is perfectly ok for someone to pretend to be SS. When they start saluting and growing oddly shaped moustaches, and trying to ethnically cleanse HRTA is when I'll get worried. One of the main things that sets us apart from paintball (sorry to mention paintball in this DIT) is the fact that we wear military attire. I understand if people don't like others wearing it, but I don't think it should be a banned issue from airsoft discussion boards.

I usually worry a lot sooner than the ethnic cleansing. Somewhere around mass deportations and the burning of the Reichstag.

As for "military atire" ... dont fall into ION C's trap of thinking they dont. They do. Most of them regularly wear camoufalge. The Paintbal tac-vests are modified assault vests. And THATs in speed ball.

Its still a specific unit or division whose sole reason for fame (infamy) is the horrible things they did. Wearing their kit on the field is associating yourself with that to abosorb some of that notoriety.

Discussion on boards is at the sufferance of the owners lest we forget. Otherwise I wouldnt still be banned from the chrisitianty forum.

Utreg

Uniforms: no problem..
Insignia: no go.. But i wouldn't completely agree with any unit insignia's anyway, so not just SS insignia. Unless its re-enactment, yada, yada...

Arcto

ambro25 wrote: »

Am I the only on to find the idea of WW2 Wehrmacht vs Y2K ACU'd US Army anachronistically wrong? :cool:

What, exactly, would such a scenario 're-enact'?

A team of crack commandos are sent back in time to stop Adolf going on holidays all over europe. To achieve this they must grab a flag and return it to there base.

Historical acuracy is paramount on that one

TerrorFirmer

I voted for regular Wehrmacht but not SS. I have a keen interested actually in German military but again, it's just not wise to accept an image as strikingly associated with war crime and atrocity as the SS. It doesn't matter about actual history, or who was responsible for what - it's all about how the general public would perceive it. If you want my advice, it would be that SS is not an option, period. This isn't a democracy, just because people vote for it doesn't mean that you have to allow it.Notwithstanding the fact that it's the internet, of course you will get people voting for the SS without really caring for even understanding of genuine SS history. It's a bad idea and open to a lot of trouble.

Genghiz Cohen

Everyone saw the women and children American solders bombed to hell in Iraq, to ban the discussion of WWII uniforms, a war that has been over for a long time, and not to ban the discussion of the USMC uniforms is a little odd, I.E. it's okay as long as they win.

Discussion of the US army should be offensive to a lot of people, but it isn't seen as such here.

Voted 3, yes to all TBH.

TerrorFirmer

The different being that the SS has an infamous reputation, owing to the fact that it (certain divisions, but let's not get specific) policed concentration camps and was responsible for some of the worst excesses of the war - that were deliberately perpetrated. Some of the SS were drawn from the Einzatgruppen, killing squads that killed up to 1,000,000 men, women and children through shootings alone. Please tell me about all the thousands of woman and children that the US army executed - and I mean executed, not accidentally killed - in Iraq acting on orders coming from the US Government? Or about the specialist US killing squads that roam Iraq killing undesirables? Hmmm, thought not.

Yes the SS was primarily a military organization with an excellent battle record but they are tarred by the atrocities some of them committed and that is how they are seen by the average person on the street, a criminal organization responsibility for the most vile excesses of the war. Like I said it doesn't matter that some of us know a little more about the Waffen SS, it's about how it'll be seen.

Your comparison really isn't comparing like things.

Genghiz Cohen

If America have bombs and missiles capible of hitting a target, accurate to within 6 meters (the LT-2 Laser Guided Bomb, Chinese but I couldn't find an American one within 5 mins of searching), how could the killings in Iraq possibly have been an accident?

What about the photos of the Iraqi prisoners being tortured?

What about the alleged CIA flights through Shannon carrying prisoners being sent to be tortured?

Hivemind187

*squints* I can almost see the original topic from here

Boston

Christ. we're getting people that don't even post here voting. Tbh moderators should make a yea or nay decision on this, taking into account feedback but not necessary basing the decision on this polls outcome.

kdouglas

Lads, as has already been stated, the current US army and their actions are not in question here, the point is the the SS and any other nazi insignia/uniforms are still very offensive to people from all over the world, regardless of the fact that ww2 was so long ago

kdouglas

Boston wrote: »

Christ. we're getting people that don't even post here voting. Tbh moderators should make a yea or nay decision on this, taking into account feedback but not necessary basing the decision on this polls outcome.

unfortunately it was an afterthought that the poll should have been made public, this would have allowed us to discount the votes that were not from regular members

I'd also like to point out, the poll is merely that, a poll, it is not in any way binding and at the end of the day, the decision will be made between myself and o1s1n, there is also a discussion about this topic going on in the moderator forum so our decision will take on board advice from other sources than just this thread.

JohnReisman

Generally speaking I loathe the idea of censorship. But this aint a general topic. Its quite specific. The ruling out of any representation of the german military that participated in WW2 I think would sound a bit silly. But the special reputation that the SS enjoyed I think should make this a no-brainer. I for one would choose not to skirmish with anyone wearing swastikas or the SS badge. But for comparisson between the different uniforms of the SS, wehrmacht and even some allied forces, I may not be able to tell between them. If someone just wanted to wear german WW2 clothes and play airsoft then as long as their mantra, politics and creed was airsoft then I would be happy to skirmish with them. Anything else then please stay away. From me anyway. And for those that want some more background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzstaffel

Foxy-07

i belive that any kind of ss uniform should be worn when the sport has grown and reinactments are being played until then it is a no go area to use ss uniforms at a skirnish. also i voted that talking about the ss uniforms or airsoft equipment should be aloud .

16airassualt

i dont think that any good could come from wearing ss uniforms,in germany the swastiga symbol is banned totally,because the holocoust and the atrocites that are still fresh in peoples minds.il put it this way,would you enjoy playing with/against someone wearing uvf/uda/orange man attire??well multiply that displeasement about a million times if you are jewish or polish playing airsoft with someone who enjoys as a hobby dressing up as the organisation who commited mass genocide on your race/possibly family

TerrorFirmer

16airassualt wrote: »

i dont think that any good could come from wearing ss uniforms,in germany the swastiga symbol is banned totally,because the holocoust and the atrocites that are still fresh in peoples minds.il put it this way,would you enjoy playing with/against someone wearing uvf/uda/orange man attire??well multiply that displeasement about a million times if you are jewish or polish playing airsoft with someone who enjoys as a hobby dressing up as the organisation who commited mass genocide on your race/possibly family

Actually, that's a good analogy. The phrase 'Sure it's only a uniform' just doesn't really cut in this case.

Evolute

16airassualt wrote: »

i dont think that any good could come from wearing ss uniforms,in germany the swastiga symbol is banned totally,because the holocoust and the atrocites that are still fresh in peoples minds.il put it this way,would you enjoy playing with/against someone wearing uvf/uda/orange man attire??well multiply that displeasement about a million times if you are jewish or polish playing airsoft with someone who enjoys as a hobby dressing up as the organisation who commited mass genocide on your race/possibly family

For once your not stirring it haha.

But yeh u summed it up very nicely maybe people will read it and understand what we have been trying to get them to understand.

MaxForce

16airassualt wrote: »

i dont think that any good could come from wearing SS uniforms,in germany the swastiga symbol is banned totally,because the holocoust and the atrocites that are still fresh in peoples minds.il put it this way,would you enjoy playing with/against someone wearing uvf/uda/orange man attire??well multiply that displeasement about a million times if you are Jewish or polish playing airsoft with someone who enjoys as a hobby dressing up as the organisation who commited mass genocide on your race/possibly family

This is why I voted for WWII uniforms but no extreme groups. Well summed up. Was a bit swayed to wards all WWII uniforms for while but I think the passage above was a reality check.

Stercus Accidit

16airassualt wrote: »

i dont think that any good could come from wearing ss uniforms,in germany the swastiga symbol is banned totally,because the holocoust and the atrocites that are still fresh in peoples minds.il put it this way,would you enjoy playing with/against someone wearing uvf/uda/orange man attire??well multiply that displeasement about a million times if you are jewish or polish playing airsoft with someone who enjoys as a hobby dressing up as the organisation who commited mass genocide on your race/possibly family

Here here,

very well put, I think the best argument so far has been made.

Spitfire666

to be honest, the above post to me is the same line as what i was thinking of when i voted and i still think that all uniforms and markings should be allowed. holocost denial is also against the law over in germany so to be fair, i think banning the swastiga was a bit contradictory to that.

if somebody in "orange" atire was playing, i wouldn't care, thats the beuty of airsoft, there is no political bull relating to it and thats why we can all go up to predator and play with/against everybody else and at the end of the day, it IS just a uniform.

and i understand that we are not talking about american uniforms, but what we are talking about is the banning of something that SOME people are offended by while not banning other things that people are offended by. the point made on another page was a good one, is it only ok to wear the uniform if that military group won?

Hivemind187

wotisthere wrote: »

88

And you have just been reported for that comment.

Buh-bye.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

23 3

bitch