If not why not ?

Nevyn

Would you call yourself a feminist ?
If not why not ?

I suppose i am

Silverfish

No.

I don't believe men and women are equal, physically or mentally. Not worse, or better, just different.





(Cos men are stupid)

Femelade

I wouldnt think i am either, there are somethings a man can do that women cant...there are things that i would expect my boyfriend to do, but wouldnt dream of doing it myself..

Dinxminx

Yes and no. Like Femmy there are certain things I expect boys to do that girls don't have to, but at the same time I do think women are just as capable as men and there's no reason why we should be tied to the kitchen sink...

Slow Motion

I tend to think women are different but equal (being a man I am more equal ) But I have to say I cannot stand feminazis, you know the ones who hate men and everything to do with them. There was an interesting article on the radio last week about a guy who has written a book after resigining from on of the womens charities because he said of sexual discrimination (could have been rape crisis or a womens shelter can't remember which one), but it provided an interesting perspective. Sorry if I have gone OT but I have been thinking about it since.

Nevyn

I didn't say anything about equality or the equal rights movement I asked about feminism.

Slow Motion

Thaedydal wrote: »

I didn't say anything about equality or the equal rights movement I asked about feminism.

Then I suppose you should give a (or your) definition !

fits

Yes I dont really know what you mean either.

I think its unfortunate that feminism has become a bit of a dirty word... Theres still a long way to go in women's rights around the world.

biko

Feminism is the radical notion that women are people. So yeah, I guess I'm a feminist.

I'm for women's rights (equal opportunities and pay).
Male btw

Oryx

I understood feminism to mean the fight to be regarded to equal as men. So in that regard I dont see myself as a feminist, because I think that battle is over. (Ok, there are still factions fighting it out, but in the main). My own opinion is that men and women are balanced out in our differences.

So what did you mean as feminist, Thaedydal?

fits

KtK wrote: »

I understood feminism to mean the fight to be regarded to equal as men. So in that regard I dont see myself as a feminist, because I think that battle is over.

Maybe its over in Ireland but it certainly isnt over for the majority of the worlds' population.

WindSock

I would call myself a Feminist, but not to a huge extent. I haven't read all the great writings out there, but I do intend to someday. I couldn't tell you much about history and Womens Movements, I have only gone by what is my personal understanding and experiences. I don't go on protest marches or anything, but then again I never was one for chanting moronically. I like to point out inequalities and unfairness to Women, but I don't ignore when this happens to Men either.
It's funny that the word Feminist seems to hold a bit of scary female empowerment in it, yet when the word Chauvanist is used, it seems only to imply Sexism.

Catari Jaguar

I think Women and Men are equal. So I'm pro both and want equality. Though I prefer and respect men in general...

I'm not all anti shaving and bras but I'm passionate about some issues

I hate people saying women should be in the home or just having kids.
I hate how Muslim women are treated. I've been in a Islamic country and I hated being forced to cover up in 90 degree weather and being made feel wrong or dirty. They're sleazy perverts, why should I compromise?
I am all for Women's education and equal paying jobs.
I'm completely against forced marriages and female circumsion.
I hate that the media is portraying women to be size 0 with huge boobs to be sexy.
I'm totally disgusted and offended by celebrity women that pose in FHM etc. Hollyoaks sluts, i'm looking in your direction. I have no respect for that. I have talents other than my breasts thank you.
I want a daughter to be stong, opinianated, educated and no man's doormat.

JC 2K3

Femmy wrote: »

I wouldnt think i am either, there are somethings a man can do that women cant...there are things that i would expect my boyfriend to do, but wouldnt dream of doing it myself..

Dinxminx wrote: »

Yes and no. Like Femmy there are certain things I expect boys to do that girls don't have to

Such as?

Dirk Gently

Dinxminx wrote:

there are certain things I expect boys to do that girls don't have to

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Such as?

accept responsibility? :eek:

Jesus Wept

WindSock wrote: »

I would call myself a Feminist, but not to a huge extent. I haven't read all the great writings out there

Won't take long.

star-pants

I agree with a few other posters, the word feminist has been distorted and used to cover a multitude of traits - so perhaps a definition of what it's being classed as would be better, so as we can answer the question better

WindSock

The-Rigger wrote: »

Won't take long.

Why, 'cause I'm a super fast reader with a large dolphin like brain?

Jesus Wept

WindSock wrote: »

Why, 'cause I'm a super fast reader with a large dolphin like brain?

Got it in one.

With that said Dolphins are like really really dumb humans, so actually, no.

Femelade

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Such as?

well, i know my dad, brother and boyfriend are alot stronger than i....so if there was something that needed moving..i would get one of them to do it or at least help me with it...theres a piece of furniture here, that i could not for the life of me move on my own..i would ask one of them to help me with it...
they can prob open a few jars that i cant..even of i do use a rubber glove or whatever other tips...
My dad knocked down a wall in our house a few months back with a sledge hammer, i took a few wacks off it myself and barely hit the plaster off....

I know not ALL women are weaklings like me though, so each to their own...

Just cos i believe that there are somethings a man can do that i cant. it doesnt really mean that i think women are not equal to men...i mean we have the same rights and responsibilites when it comes to everyday things..even like house work, a man can vacuum and iron too! i dont doubt that for a second..

WindSock

The-Rigger wrote: »

With that said Dolphins are like really really dumb humans, so actually, no.

Do Dolphins wear Burberry Caps now?

Nevyn

A feminist is a person believes in feminism.

If you think you should have the right to determine what you want to do with your life and that all people should have the same rights and opportunities to do and that gender should not be a factor in that,
then you are a feminist.

How women have gone about making sure that they can do this by
the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.

WindSock I would suggest starting here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

The self determining is a big part, which is why there are many types of feminism, we can't tell people in other countries and cultures how to self determine but we can support them as they work towards getting the rights they want.

Feminists are a very diverse lot, which I don't think is contradictory as women are diverse and hold many differing views on differing things. Choice is the whole point that a person's gender should not limit their choices in life or restrict them from opportunities.

Feminism's many forms

* 3.1 Liberal feminism
* 3.2 Radical feminism
* 3.3 Individualist feminism
* 3.4 Black feminism
* 3.5 Socialist and Marxist feminisms
* 3.6 Post-structural feminism and postmodern feminism
* 3.7 Postcolonial feminism and third-world feminism
* 3.8 Ecofeminism


And while we do have the vote for the last 79 years it took women in the UK
( which we were a part of then ) 90 years to achieve it, so we don't have it as long as it took to fight to get it. Funny how many women don't know that.

A lot of the backlash and incorrect ideas about what a feminist is and that all feminists are feminazis and man haters comes from a reaction to Radical Feminism in the usa in the 1970s.

fits

Good post.

I'd call myself a feminist so. I think most women would.

Jules

On that defination i would call myself a feminist.

David Michael

fits wrote: »

Good post.

I'd call myself a feminist so. I think most women would.

Me too. and I'm a bloke.

think about it.

Nightwish

No I'm not a feminist. Men and women arent equal. Women shouldnt get equal pay if they are out every second day because of little Davids earache or little Niamh's gymnastics.

Nevyn

Nightwish wrote: »

No I'm not a feminist. Men and women arent equal. Women shouldnt get equal pay if they are out every second day because of little Davids earache or little Niamh's gymnastics.

So what you are saying is parents should not get equal pay to non parents ?

Nightwish

no...parents should get paid for the hours they actually work.

Nevyn

I think you need to look up 'parental leave'.

Maple

i believe tha women should have the same rights as men and that an individual should not be prejudiced against because of their gender.

however i am extremely opposed to the radical and extremist form of bra burning feminism. this sort of men hating nonsense actually undoes any progress fro the womens movement.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

her point is that parental leave is bollox though.. and I agree with it to a point. Why should the people that hired you have to pay for you to *not work* just because you spit out a child?

Nevyn

Parental leave is unpaid.

Nevyn

maple wrote: »

i believe tha women should have the same rights as men and that an individual should not be prejudiced against because of their gender.

however i am extremely opposed to the radical and extremist form of bra burning feminism. this sort of men hating nonsense actually undoes any progress fro the womens movement.

Like I said there are many types of feminism and I too have issues with the radical kind and people at assume that I am a radical feminist who hates men,
I have some wonderful men in my life and thank the gods for them.

JC 2K3

Femmy wrote: »

well, i know my dad, brother and boyfriend are alot stronger than i....so if there was something that needed moving..i would get one of them to do it or at least help me with it...theres a piece of furniture here, that i could not for the life of me move on my own..i would ask one of them to help me with it...
they can prob open a few jars that i cant..even of i do use a rubber glove or whatever other tips...
My dad knocked down a wall in our house a few months back with a sledge hammer, i took a few wacks off it myself and barely hit the plaster off....

If it's just a physical strength thing, then why do you specifically say "there are some things a man can do that a woman can't" as opposed to "there are some things strong people can do that weaker people can't"? Just because, on average, men are stronger than women, doesn't mean you should make the distinction based on gender. And also, feminism has nothing to do with making weaker people do jobs they're not capable of doing, so I'm puzzled as to why you brought this point up in the first place.

Dudess

I consider myself a feminist but a certain amount of being pissed off with behaviour by particular women comes with that.
For example: bitchiness, judging of appearance (men are the ones who always seem to get accused of body fascism) and all that sh*t women have to listen to when they reach certain ages - they should have a husband/potential husband and kids by their early 30s and if they don't they'll be "left on the shelf" (do men get that crap? No), they shouldn't wear particular types of clothes at particular ages (that has always baffled me - if a 45-year-old woman has great legs why shouldn't she wear that short skirt?!)
A lot of that crap is propagated by women themselves - this lack of "sisterhood" really disappoints me.

spurious

Yes I would consider myself a feminist and I think most of the really effective opposition to the advancement of women has been from other women.

**edit** perhaps not 'opposition', more 'undermining'.

WindSock

Dudess wrote: »

A lot of that crap is propagated by women themselves - this lack of "sisterhood" really disappoints me.

That's quite true. We are are own worst enemies.

Dudess

Well in fairness, I'm only talking about some women.

And the way some women just comply - in particular with the whole being-left-on-the-shelf thing in your 30s. Instead of dismissing that myth as the load of sexist, ageist bollocks it is, they panic and fall into line - by agreeing with the sentiment and desperately trying to find any guy who'll tick a few boxes, and letting it take over and ruin their lives.

Maple

Dudess wrote: »

Yep, and the way some women just comply - in particular the whole being left on the shelf thing in your 30s. Instead of dismissing that myth as the load of sexist, ageist, bollocks it is, they panic and fall into line.

:eek: you mean its not true? **climbs down off shelf** :rolleyes:

but yes that sort of thinking beggars belief. i had a housemate once who is with the most ignorant selfish man alive, but according to her she was lucky to have him as she was 31 and it just wasn't going to happen for her if she didn't stick with him.

i'm extremely lucky to have 4 sisters who are the epitome of sisterhood. we constantly encourage and support the others in all aspects of life, love and career. when we go out at night together, its an event, we're encouraged to look our best and to have confidence, there is no hiding our lights under bushels or any of that manipulating bs trying to dress the other unflatteringly.

i've proably painted a picture of teh Waltons and its just not true, we fight like cats but growing up with them has been empowering. You don't have to slate other women to get ahead. solidarity is the way forward.

**climbs down off soapbox**:o

Thaedydal

Thaedydal wrote: »

If you think you should have the right to determine what you want to do with your life and that all people should have the same rights and opportunities to do and that gender should not be a factor in that, then you are a feminist.

I'm not a feminist, I am an equalitarian.
Focusing on the furthuring the rights of one group, by limiting the rights of the others if needs be, just isn't fair in my book.

metrovelvet

Philosophically yes, actively no, as I don't do anything about it.

We are different but equal and I believe for some very good reasons and that you have to let a woman be a woman and a man be a man.

I think also there is a global crisis in masculinity which is given rise to more misogyny.

On the other hand, I recently had a baby and am glad it's a boy because if it were a girl I would have no idea how to prepare her for the crap she would have to put up with. [And also all the fairy princess **** would get on my nerves.]

You just have to take a look at human resource departments to see its women who screw over other women.

JC 2K3

metrovelvet wrote: »

On the other hand, I recently had a baby and am glad it's a boy because if it were a girl I would have no idea how to prepare her for the crap she would have to put up with.

You think guys don't have to put up with any crap?

I think the idea that girls' lives are so much more complicated than guys' lives and that guys don't have to deal with half the crap that girls have to deal with is a complete myth. You'd think that the alarmingly high rate of male suicide would make it plainly obvious that this is the case, but evidently not.

I have to ask those of you who claim to be feminists on the basis of being opposed to the societal standards/pressures imposed on women, why not just take a stance against societal standards/pressures in general rather than a gender specific stance?

Maple

JC 2K3 wrote: »

You think guys don't have to put up with any crap?

I think the idea that girls' lives are so much more complicated than guys' lives and that guys don't have to deal with half the crap that girls have to deal with is a complete myth. You'd think that the alarmingly high rate of male suicide would make it plainly obvious that this is the case, but evidently not.

I have to ask those of you who claim to be feminists on the basis of being opposed to the societal standards/pressures imposed on women, why not just take a stance against societal standards/pressures in general rather than a gender specific stance?

If you read the thread you'll find that most of us do and, are opposed to discrimination against a person because of their gender irrespective of them being male/female.

And I do agree that men have just as much sh1t to deal with as women, i actually think that i am lucky to be a woman because its deemed socially acceptable for me to talk about my feelings whereas in a man/boy its perceived as weak. Yes we may say that times are changing but imo they are not changing fast enough.

The Corinthian

I'm not a Feminist. Feminism as a movement is essentially the gender equivalent of a trade union so being a man it makes as much sense in my being a Feminist as it does a commuter to be a member of the bus drivers union.

Mr. CooL ICE

Double standards do exist, but they work both ways. Fair nuff, the whole "woman sleeps with man. therefore woman is slut but man is legend" debate exists, but there are issues such as male guardianship and male rape victims where discrimination exists. Without bothering to list them, I personally believe there is an equal amount of equality issues apparent in western society.

But as Thaed pointed out, this is about feminism and not just equality. I'm with Moonbaby on this one in that I would be more of an equilatarian. As for the initial feminist issues such as suffrage and equal pay, very few people would be against these, and I can't think of a single argument as to why they would be.

Unfortunately for any feminist arguments, they would be better suited to fall under another 'ism', such as liberalism, secularism, etc. Very few Irish people would be for burkhas, but that would be more of a secularism/religious/humanitarian argument than feminist argument. IMHO, if a woman objects to FHM models baring all, it is not because they are a feminist, but they are conservative or merely have a conservative streak. Some women don't object to it, and it doesn't bother me when the next six-pack-exposing boy band video is released; the cynical twat in me just mutters the word "fag" in my head and I switch channel.

panda100

David Michael wrote: »

Me too. and I'm a bloke.
.

Of course men can and should be feminists too

I would definatly consider myself a feminist in the traditional sense that women should be equal to men. At the moment in Ireland I believe we are far from being equal to men.
There was a very good article in Marie Claire last month about rebranding feminism for the 21st century.Did anyone else read it?

Nevyn

metrovelvet wrote: »

Philosophically yes, actively no, as I don't do anything about it.

Why ?
and what would you consider to be being active ?

metrovelvet wrote: »

I think also there is a global crisis in masculinity which is given rise to more misogyny.

I agree, but I think that education has a part to play in this and modren histroy covering the shift in gender roles has not been taught in school.

metrovelvet wrote: »

On the other hand, I recently had a baby and am glad it's a boy because if it were a girl I would have no idea how to prepare her for the crap she would have to put up with.

Wow just wow, you acknowledge that there are problems and challeneges to the extent you don't want a daughter because you think her lot in this world is worse then a sons would be but you say you would not do anything about it.

metrovelvet wrote: »

[And also all the fairy princess **** would get on my nerves.]

That you can get a handle on, I have managed.

TheB

I've read the definition.. still not sure if I'm a feminist or not.

I think that women should have no less and no more rights than men..and vice versa.. but..

I'm not one for the "boy" jobs in life.. he can chop wood, get all manky fixing the car, hit things with hammers etc etc..

I'll happily stack the dishwasher and stick some jeans in the wash to not have to do stuff with concrete and mini diggers..

There is definite divides in life - just because of physical and mental differences and I'm reasonably happy with them.. can't see the boys having a Cosmo & SATC night in.. or me getting hammered and singing rugby songs while arguing the forward pass decision of the 54th minute..

But thats just me..
I'm FAR from the giggly girlie sort .. and wouldn't put up with different treatment in the work place or anywhere else.. I'm also not very delicate either .. .. not exactly the swooning heroine sort.. I just don't like doing some things I consider "boy" stuff.. thats why I have one

After that probably totally unclear ramble I'm off to arrange some flowers.. :cool:

JC 2K3

TheB wrote: »

can't see the boys having a Cosmo & SATC night in.. or me getting hammered and singing rugby songs while arguing the forward pass decision of the 54th minute..

Nice stereotyping.

TheB wrote: »

I'm not one for the "boy" jobs in life.. he can chop wood, get all manky fixing the car, hit things with hammers etc etc..

I'll happily stack the dishwasher and stick some jeans in the wash to not have to do stuff with concrete and mini diggers..

...

I just don't like doing some things I consider "boy" stuff..

Why must you associate certain activities with gender? Everyone has things they like and dislike doing. It's not because they fit into a certain stereotype based on gender, it's because individuals are different.

pretty-in-pink

Yes, and no

We are equal but different, and full equality has not been reached. It really boils my blood to see how a lot of countries treat their women though. Particularily the Islamic ones. Barbaric doesn't begin to cover it- the way they treat rape cases in Saudi for example. Its disgraceful. It also annoys me when people give out about certain subtle differences here (guys buying the drinks, girls get a rep easier, wage difference)yes, all valid points, however when there is such brutality in other countries, it makes our issues look petty. If we are all born free and equal- then why the heck aren't the people who have the real power doing something about the way other countries/cultures treat their women?

*I feel a rant comin on, so I will stop typing for now