Barbell vs dumbbell Bench Presses

celestial

Hi all,

Right, so I am really into the weight training now and I love it. However, my gym is a bit weird in that the barbell rack is set up incorrectly as the bench is too low for the rack - i.e. you can raise the barbell but you can't lower it to chest level as the bar is too high, and it gets in the way. To get around this you have to lie forward and kinda bring the barbell forward so you can lower it fully. This is kinda awkward and also the area often isn't free so I find it a lot handier to use dumbbells.

Anyway my strength has improved immensely over the past 9 months. In February I would be struggling at 3 sets of 10 reps on the 16 - 20kg dumbbell (as in 8 - 10kg in each hand), now I can bench 36 - 40kg. Firstly, do people rate that as good/average/really good, by the way? I'm 27, 85kg, 5'9".

Also, I feel that doing dumbbells may be slightly better than barbells - I think it might work the peripheral stabiliser muscles more than with barbells (given that the dumbbells don't have the stabilising effect of the bar)?

And if I can bench 36 - 40kg with dumbbells, how much should I be able to do with a barbell? Perhaps twice as much I reckon?

Is benching 40kg dumbbells average/good when compared with most gym-goers do people feel?

Would be good to hear your comments.

JM MARCONI

First off, well done with the progress.
Do you mean 40kg in each hand or two 20kg dumbells?

TerrorFirmer

I would say 40kg is fairly average. But I suppose it would depend on your gym or what your idea of average is. I use 26's for floor presses, and even then would consider myself fairly...average as well for want of a better word. I could do more, but it's the forearms that let me down, trying to lift them up to my chest from the floor In fact, everything I do feels average in comparison to what other people seem to be doing around me in MY gym, and reading this forum. So I guess that's a good motivation. Though it may not necessarily be average.

I don't think you would bench 2x what you can dumbell press, unless your forearms are amazing weak and you can't lift up dumbells, probably you could bench 60-65 if you do 40 with dumbells.

edit: And I assumed you mean 20kg in each hand, if it was 40kg in each hand then by the gods that is not average.

Bo Malicious

Celestial> Hows it going. Im no expert - but I am an enthusiast and enjoy reading forums like these as well as numerous other sites and books etc. As it can be fairly freakin quiet in here at times I thought I might as well offer up what I have gleamed from other sites.

I wont comment on what I think is average or what you should be doing.

(was a little confused by your description using the smith machine but it sounds a little precarious.Perhaps best to ditch this method as you want to have total confidence in your equipment as you weights progress and streghth increases.)Initially if you have just started training I would suggest using an empty barbell or low weights just initially to learn the movement and breathing technique.

After a few sessions having added a bit of weight on the barbell (not a machine press) I would suggest dropping a few kilos what you lift on barbel and moving onto db's. You will probably be slighlty stronger on one side and this will become more noticeable with db bench press as you learn the slightly new way of balancing the weights.

I would suggest db bench because it gives much greater range of motion....and its easier to drop a db without nutting yourself :-)

Hanley

Depedning on whether or not you're talking about 40kg per hand or 40kg total it may or may not be about average.

Dumbbell Press are probably better, to an extent. Tbh I'd consider it more "advanced" than straight up barbell benching. Anyone that I know with a big chest started with barbell benching and still uses it, which is proof enough for me!

Colm_OReilly

Strength Standards

celestial

Hanley wrote: »

Depedning on whether or not you're talking about 40kg per hand or 40kg total it may or may not be about average.

Dumbbell Press are probably better, to an extent. Tbh I'd consider it more "advanced" than straight up barbell benching. Anyone that I know with a big chest started with barbell benching and still uses it, which is proof enough for me!

Hey Hanley, to clarify the above - do you mean anyone you know with a big chest started with barbell pressing - or dumbbell pressing?

Also, I meant I use two 18kg or 20kg dumbbells - one in each hand, so total 36-40kg is what I can lift on dumbbells. Although I have a tendency to go easy on myself so would say I can do more than that - or will very soon. Last time I used barbells I benched 60kg but again, I could have done more I feel. I'm gonna go for the 20kg dumbbells (again one in each hand) next time I press.

thebiggestjim

I find barbell best for results, strength and size. However the dumbell press is good for mixing things up when you find yourself plateauing. I have see results with dumbells also.

dylbert

OP: are you doing any DB flies, I found the helped my strenght big time. In six months I went from bench pressing 35kg to 65kg, can do about 4reps at 70kg (3kg over my body weight ) and DB press went from 30kg to 55kg. I have trouble lifting the 27.5kg DB's to the start possition so I just lift one up using my 2 arms and get somebody else to lift the other for me, I do the same for the shoulder press.

Colm_OReilly

dylbert,

This is not a personal attack but looking at the figures and timescale I'm judging you to be a novice lifter, correct? As such, nearly anything will improve a novice lifter's ability - people experience massive gains early on in weights. Cycling, squatting, running, deadlifting, rowing - all these would have improved your bench in the early stages of adaptation.

So to attribute your gains to flies wouldn't be entirely accurate imho. Unless, of course, you'd plateaued at 35Kg for ages - then introduced flies - in which case my argument isn't valid.

Hanley

thebiggestjim wrote: »

I find barbell best for results, strength and size. However the dumbell press is good for mixing things up when you find yourself plateauing. I have see results with dumbells also.

Agreed.

And as Colm said (albeit it not directly), flys will probably do sweet FA for your bench. I dropped them in favour of dumbbell bench pressing and my bench jumped.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Are the flyes good for visual definition though? I want to work the sides of my pecs and shape them.

celestial

so would say as regards building size and strength in chest/arms, barbells should be the way to go, and then dumbbells to mix it up when needed? I suspect though that neither have any distinct advantage - just depends on your own progress/situation.

Nah I rarely bother with isolation exercises now - bench and squat and maybe military press are my babies. I guess the message for building strength is train and recover, train and recover!!

crotalus667

CJ Marren wrote: »

Are the flyes good for visual definition though? I want to work the sides of my pecs and shape them.

yep , cabel fly's are better

Vegeta

crotalus667 wrote: »

yep , cabel fly's are better

I have to say I do enjoy a good cable fly. At the end of a session if you just want to pump the crap out of your chest throw in a set or two of these

pm.

i find the bar to be much better but then again i also need a spotter as i use free weights, you also use balance muscles too, i was in a gym in mullingar and reached max weight on a lot of the machines then i had to stop training for 6 mts but im back at it since june this time using only free weights, its slower to start with but my strength/size has greatly improved over the fixed weights.

dylbert

Thats OK, I'm a novice all right. For the first few months I was only using the bench press machine but when I moved onto free weights and varied my routine I started to see much better gains. I know flies are not the only reason I improved but as you said anything will improve a novice lifter's ability so why not do them.

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

dylbert,

This is not a personal attack but looking at the figures and timescale I'm judging you to be a novice lifter, correct? As such, nearly anything will improve a novice lifter's ability - people experience massive gains early on in weights. Cycling, squatting, running, deadlifting, rowing - all these would have improved your bench in the early stages of adaptation.

So to attribute your gains to flies wouldn't be entirely accurate imho. Unless, of course, you'd plateaued at 35Kg for ages - then introduced flies - in which case my argument isn't valid.

Colm_OReilly

I know flies are not the only reason I improved but as you said anything will improve a novice lifter's ability so why not do them.

I know this is a rhetorical question, as evidenced by the lack of question mark, but I'm still going to answer.

Why not do them? Because their are more effective and efficient ways of getting stronger than isolating the muscles in one largely esoteric plane as the fly.

Are you squatting heavy? Are you deadlifting heavy? Are you doing push ups, dips and chins? Are you shoulder pressing? Handstand Push Ups? Rowing (short and intense)?

All these exercises would produce a far greater improvement in strengh in your bench as well as an overall improvement in the way your body functions, feels and looks.

So why not do them? Because you've a limited amount of time so you might as well do the most productive work you can. In my opinion, a dumbbell fly is unproductive when compared to the exercises listed above.

BossArky

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

dylbert,

Cycling, squatting, running, deadlifting, rowing - all these would have improved your bench in the early stages of adaptation.

Colm, how would cycling increase your bench? Is that like if I was in the circus lying back on my shoulders, with my feet up in the air, twirling the oly bar around like in a helicopter blade rotation (similar to a clown in the circus supporting a wooden plank with two monkeys dressed up in a sailors outfit on top of it)?

dylbert

As I said, "I'm a novice", so I'm still learning and am grateful to anybody who helps me in the right direction. I do some of the exercises you mentioned and will try work the rest into my workouts, although handstand push-ups sound tricky,

Cheers.

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

I know this is a rhetorical question, as evidenced by the lack of question mark, but I'm still going to answer.

Why not do them? Because their are more effective and efficient ways of getting stronger than isolating the muscles in one largely esoteric plane as the fly.

Are you squatting heavy? Are you deadlifting heavy? Are you doing push ups, dips and chins? Are you shoulder pressing? Handstand Push Ups? Rowing (short and intense)?

All these exercises would produce a far greater improvement in strengh in your bench as well as an overall improvement in the way your body functions, feels and looks.

So why not do them? Because you've a limited amount of time so you might as well do the most productive work you can. In my opinion, a dumbbell fly is unproductive when compared to the exercises listed above.

Hanley

BossArky wrote: »

Colm, how would cycling increase your bench? Is that like if I was in the circus lying back on my shoulders, with my feet up in the air, twirling the oly bar around like in a helicopter blade rotation (similar to a clown in the circus supporting a wooden plank with two monkeys dressed up in a sailors outfit on top of it)?

And how would rowing (i assume you mean on a Concept 2) increase your bench strength?

spiral

I think he means that if your a beginner that basically any compound exercise done intensively will increase your overall strength fairly quickly and that you can train for quite a while adding weight every workout even if its only a kilo or so.

Hanley

spiral wrote: »

I think he means that if your a beginner that basically any compound exercise done intensively will increase your overall strength fairly quickly and that you can train for quite a while adding weight every workout even if its only a kilo or so.

Cycling and rowing aren't compound exercises. But they are major parts of crossfit. So I can only assume the post was intended to say "Crossfit will make your bench stronger".

celestial

Yes exactly, in the case of rowing it works most muscles in the body, e.g. the biceps, so it stands to reason that it will boost the muscles you use for exercises such as the bench press

Hanley

celestial wrote: »

Yes exactly, in the case of rowing it works most muscles in the body, e.g. the biceps, so it stands to reason that it will boost the muscles you use for exercises such as the bench press

By that logic running boosts your squat.

davyjose

BossArky wrote: »

Colm, how would cycling increase your bench? Is that like if I was in the circus lying back on my shoulders, with my feet up in the air, twirling the oly bar around like in a helicopter blade rotation (similar to a clown in the circus supporting a wooden plank with two monkeys dressed up in a sailors outfit on top of it)?

In terms of being a beginner, things such as core strength (as the most obvious example in regards to strength), and a higher level of fitness, can be improved by cycling. This can help (a beginner) with their bench.
Fitness is more than being able to do one thing well.

Colm_OReilly

Regards Cycling: Spiral had it right. As a beginner nearly any exercise will cause a systemic/hormonal response that will improve strength. This quickly fades however as your body adapts to exercise.

Cycling and rowing aren't compound exercises. But they are major parts of crossfit.

Cycling isn't a major part of CrossFit.

Rowing is a compound exercise, based off an aggressive hip extension which isn't too dissimilar from the hip extension you find in a deadlift, squat, power clean, etc. So again we have a systemic response that can improve strength.

Now, to quote a man far more intelligent than me, Mr. Rippetoe, from this thread on strengthmill.net

Chins and pullups heavily work the triceps, as well as all the other upper body muscles one way or another. The rotator cuff muscles and upper back are stabilizers for pressing, and lockout depends on stability. I actually get pec-sore doing high volume chins. If you cannot chin yourself a respectable number of times, you have a strength imbalance that should be addressed.

So it would stand to reason that rowing, a horizontal pulling action would address and imbalance on that plain. Also, we must consider that muscular imbalances will eventually limit progress and could potentially lead to injury.

Funny, but actually this came out of an error in typing on my part. When I said:

All these exercises would produce a far greater improvement in strengh in your bench as well as an overall improvement in the way your body functions, feels and looks.

What I meant to say was: These exercises will produce an overall improvement in your strength and overall body function, which will be reflected in an increase in your bench as well. Well, something between the two statements is what I was trying to get across.

"Crossfit will make your bench stronger"

For a beginner, or someone unaccustomed to strength training, yes, I'd say it would. For a serious bencher, I'd be doubtful, considering the de-emphasis placed on benching. My bench has gone up since startign xfit, but having said that I haven't benched in ages. I would imagine The Shane's bench has gone down, considering he'd a much better developed bench than me pre xfit.

By that logic running boosts your squat.

Squatting boosts your running

johnathan woss

I prefer dumbell bench presses as you can keep your hands in the neutral position (better for your shoulders).

Hanley

johnathan woss wrote: »

I prefer dumbell bench presses as you can keep your hands in the neutral position (better for your shoulders).

Is it?

pm.

johnathan woss wrote: »

I prefer dumbell bench presses as you can keep your hands in the neutral position (better for your shoulders).

no its not, you use your shoulders more benching.

johnathan woss

Hanley;
I think so, because you can keep your thumbs pointing towards your head (best way to describe neutral position) and don't have to internally rotate your humerus. Maybe that is not better for everybody....