I'm a level 39 hunter.

dlofnep

I'm pretty much the daddy here now. Anyone who needs advice on how to kill murlocs, just ask.

Joseph

dlofnep wrote: »

I'm pretty much the daddy here now. Anyone who needs advice on how to kill murlocs, just ask.

Win

Anti

dlofnep wrote: »

I'm pretty much the daddy here now. Anyone who needs advice on how to kill murlocs, just ask.

Fooking savage

dlofnep

I think you'll all be pleased I have now reached the epic level of 40. I am now skilled in the arts of wearing mail and riding steeds.

Joseph

dlofnep wrote: »

I think you'll all be pleased I have now reached the epic level of 40. I am now skilled in the arts of wearing mail and riding steeds.

Win + 1

dlofnep

I survived STV and all I got was a lousy repair bill.

Joseph

PVP server?

dlofnep

But of course. Anything else would be outrageous!

Joseph

PvP servers ftl, the game is orintated arond PvE. PvP is only a sideline attraction

Faylum

Deaddude wrote: »

PvP servers ftl, the game is orintated arond PvE. PvP is only a sideline attraction

W0T?

PvP FTW!

copeyhagen

pve = ghey
pvp = ftw

Joseph

IMO, people who say that, are just saying it because they aren't good enough for PvE. The organisation and skill it takes. Plus all the extra time it takes to progress in PvE

Faylum

Oh yea the skill of constantly doing the same thing which at first is hard but once the same tactic is mapped in the peoples heads this skill you talk about turns into something of a joke. True skill is the people that go into these instances without reading info on the mobs or bosses, people that never watched any videos or waited for others to show them how to do things. You and all the people that follow up in these peoples shadows are useless. Skill-less people because all you do is stick to the same plan as the people that map'd it out before you! The game is based around PvE because i dont think any server can handle an all out war in PvP sad to say. But also because to make the game feel like your in the World Of Warcraft you have to role play your way into some sort of storyline. But there was two sides created for a reason, Horde and the Alliance were created so that the game was about a PvP struggle. One side being better than the other, so saying PvP is a sideline is a joke considering the two factions have been at war since the start. Maybe at times siding together to defeat things but always returning to war. So you see PvP is as important as PvE, without PvP in the game i dont think this game would have much staying power for a good few million at all. Infact i think the game would never have reached the millions of people its at, atm. A good game needs conflict and any online game that is one sided would sink faster than the titanic!

So plz Deaddude, eat your own words for me and youtube it!!

Dr_Teeth

I used to be very much "PVP FTW" but after 3 years of play I think I'll move to a PVE server if I resub again. There's very little joy to be had in world PVP unless you're a ganker with a gank class.. BG/Arena PVP/Duels is enough fun for me.

BadCharlie

I my self like PvE. I think you have it all on that kind of server. There are even guilds on our server that have the rule that if your in there guild your PvP is always set to enabled!

I my self have done allot of PvP. The Guild im in goes raiding SW or Ironforge everone 2 weeks or so. Also i have 23k kills in the bg's. Yet i love going to kara, gruul and other places.

I think if i was only to do one of them i would get tired of the game well fast.

Dustaz

Faylum wrote: »

The game is based around PvE because i dont think any server can handle an all out war in PvP sad to say.blahblahblahblah

The game is based around PVE because its a pve game. Its a PvE Game with pvp elements. not vice versa. It wasnt designed with battlegrounds, arenas, pvp objectives or even any sort of pvp kill system. These ALL came later. Addons to the main PvE game.

We can discuss the merits of PvP all we want, but thats something that needs to be understood about the game.

dlofnep

PVE'rs are our sworn enemy. However, we cannot punish them for their crimes. A conundrum if you will..

Faylum

Good point Dustaz but i was refering to the lore of Warcraft. The game is an adaptation of the old lore, but had to be somewhat changed so to create a world of warcraft rather than a war in warcraft. The purpose of the PvE section is to create a feel to the game and to involve you in the lore as much as possible, that i agree, but the lore has equal effect on the PvP aspects. The lore does start with the Alliance, horde apearing later on. But the purpose of the horde was to add a conflict complex to the game and the lore. You cant say PvP is secondary to PvE and you cant say PvE is secondary to PvP. They are both nessasary to the games past and future. So i was merly saying that when the Self-Righteous Fart Snifers of the PvE aspect to the game say PvP is pointless, they are actually wrong. I will state it again, i never said PvE was pointless i merly defended the PvP aspect of the game from being looked down upon like it always has.

If i am wrong then sorry, i just don't understand why two opposing factions would be created, to serve no purpose for a game based around wars of various kinds. And if you say its not a war game then im afraid you need to read the lore and look very carefully at your game!

Joseph

Faylum wrote: »

Oh yea the skill of constantly doing the same thing which at first is hard but once the same tactic is mapped in the peoples heads this skill you talk about turns into something of a joke. True skill is the people that go into these instances without reading info on the mobs or bosses, people that never watched any videos or waited for others to show them how to do things. You and all the people that follow up in these peoples shadows are useless. Skill-less people because all you do is stick to the same plan as the people that map'd it out before you! The game is based around PvE because i dont think any server can handle an all out war in PvP sad to say. But also because to make the game feel like your in the World Of Warcraft you have to role play your way into some sort of storyline. But there was two sides created for a reason, Horde and the Alliance were created so that the game was about a PvP struggle. One side being better than the other, so saying PvP is a sideline is a joke considering the two factions have been at war since the start. Maybe at times siding together to defeat things but always returning to war. So you see PvP is as important as PvE, without PvP in the game i dont think this game would have much staying power for a good few million at all. Infact i think the game would never have reached the millions of people its at, atm. A good game needs conflict and any online game that is one sided would sink faster than the titanic!

So plz Deaddude, eat your own words for me and youtube it!!

You've obviously never properly raided, or you would know that it isn't the same tactic for every boss. If that we're the case you'd have every nub in the whole gaming getting epics.

There are COUNTLESS PvP videos of people doing the same thing, OVER, and OVER again. If you really want a 'challenge' then yes, learn boss tactics and try to complete them without wiping you raid. Every class has its jobs in a raid.

Don't talk to be about there being a PvP struggle with Alliance and Horde. Just look at Shattrath city for Gods sake! We're practically brothers and sisters in that place.

PvP is just a distraction is WoW. Lets face it, when you take all the people that are just in the game for PvP. They probably aren't skilled enough to PvE, in most cases anyway.

Yes, I agree MMORPGs do need PvP. Just like WoW has PvP, but PvP in WoW IS only a sideline attraction as I've said before.

ZorbaTehZ

I've no problem with PvE tbh. But those RP'ers...

Faylum

Deaddude wrote: »

You've obviously never properly raided, or you would know that it isn't the same tactic for every boss. If that we're the case you'd have every nub in the whole gaming getting epics.

There are COUNTLESS PvP videos of people doing the same thing, OVER, and OVER again. If you really want a 'challenge' then yes, learn boss tactics and try to complete them without wiping you raid. Every class has its jobs in a raid.

Don't talk to be about there being a PvP struggle with Alliance and Horde. Just look at Shattrath city for Gods sake! We're practically brothers and sisters in that place.

PvP is just a distraction is WoW. Lets face it, when you take all the people that are just in the game for PvP. They probably aren't skilled enough to PvE, in most cases anyway.

Yes, I agree MMORPGs do need PvP. Just like WoW has PvP, but PvP in WoW IS only a sideline attraction as I've said before.

Yes i have raided, not so much in outland as i decided PvP was what i enjoyed doing most. And im not saying im the best PvPer on the planet im just saying i enjoy the ever changing scenario's. PvP is always changing, you never play the same game twice because the people change therfor the fighting styles change and so in one game you could be top dog but in another you could be completly owned and hidding in the corner.
But your wrong the bosses in each instance obviously since MC have changed, there is different boss fights in each instance and maybe ten different ways to do them, but the fact still remains. Once you map out what to do for that boss you rarely need to change the way you tank him, or dps him. You work out the best way to kill him, usually thru looking at another BETTER guild doing it first and the copy it over to suit your guild, you wipe and wipe untill you get it right. Name one boss in Outland that changes every week to something completly different, so that your tactics too must change? I know of one and thats in Azeroth, in BWL i think a dragon changes its moves from fire to frost or something like that. But other than that i know of none! I raided ZG and MC, a lil of BWL and Kara, and what i found most annoying was the fact that either my gear never dropped for me, that i spent more time wiping than progressing since there was only 10 bosses to master, or the one thing i hated most of all, being outbidded on iteams. All this just to get some gear to make my character look good was boring and useless since i relised i enjoyed PvPing more. And just to point out, every nub in the game is getting epics as we speak since TBC. I know pug raids doing SSC and the likes and if you can recall SSC got a nerf so it can be more accessable to more guilds.

Technically in a PvP raid every class has its job too, but since BG is really about proving your worth in battle no one really gives a toss. Problem with all BG to date is the fact that they are PvP bg's with PvE objectives. PvPing in all BG's is relatively small no big major battles since the old days of AV. Nowadays its all about easy honour and skipping anything that can slow you down, not to mention leechers or Afker's pissing around with the teams. The real PvP battles are actually just small skirmishes held around waste lands with no objective. Like in WSG under the GY's, In Ab the flags are used to draw people to them so you can just do battle (how many times have you seen people leaving flags cap'd by opposing factions just so they can kill) and in AV and EotS they are spread out lil battles and skirmishes. PvP has not yet been given a PvP only bg where killing and team work is all thats needed. Unless ofc you think of arena where the max number of players is 5 v 5. Which again is a small skirmish. After seeing Outland, my servers, bi alliance raid on Saturday last i noticed that the game just can't handle big open battles without objectives to split up the bulk of the fighting. PvP BG's will remain a PvE focused battle. Because why would blizzard spend money on the servers when they can do nothing and continue to make money?!
If you look around at PvP videos yes you will see the same thing, killing but you will see different forms of it, no person makes exactly the same video and each persons video will show maybe 1 small thing different to help you deal with something, no video is pointless because they are Player vs Player therfor something new is always happening, the battlefield, the player, the class, the positions everything changes the viewing of the fight. Where as PvE videos are exactly the same thing done by different guilds with maybe one or two videos at the most showing a new form of tactic but still using the main server accept way of taking down that boss. Let me ask you, did your guild do any boss from Outland on your own, or did you ask for advise, read info or watch a film? Yea thaught so, very few guilds dont and altho they progress slower atleast the deserve the title of GOOD PvE Guilds. Unlike all you tacticless numbskulls progressing only because you copy someone elses achievments!

Oh and the Idea of shattrah is stupid but im sure they did it because of all the people that found ways of ganking in neutral cities like Gadgetzen and winterspring, and they would be forever trying to create a safe environment for the PvE orientated people. Other thing is it never said much about shattrah in the lore so they can pritty much do what they want. Another reason i would asume they did it was because, the people you quest for are made up of the two factions who had to team together so to fight off the scourge! Mutual benifit i suppose, quite like what the horde and alliance did to fight off the scourge in easter pleagulands, but maybe we will turn on each other, never know since the horde and alliance turned on each other a good few years after. Also if you haven't noticed in Shattrah we ain't brothers and sisters because the two factions Aldor and Scryers are made up of the Draeni and Blood Elfs. You do have the choice to work with them but there is two factions one horde, one alliance that truly hate eachother.

As regards to your stupid comment about PvP people not being able to do PvE i really do think your wrong. Exactly what did all these people do to level up their characters? PvP, well then they'd only just be dinging 70 now if they started in the beta days. How retarded are you, these are people that have level'd up and grown sick of questing, or people that have no time to be on during a specific time due to work or to personal complications, so they PvP when they can because anything else could take too long to organize. Another thing that draws people to PvP is that pvp is constantly changing, it is a fresh new experience each time, they play and altho some games end out with the same result it is the 1 on 1 or 1 on 3 that attracts them to it and makes them wana continue. PvP people are no less than PvE or RP'ers they just like their own form of relief from a hard days work, school, collage or just from life itself. Ofc they would be geared for pvp more than pve, but that doesn't stop Season 2 geared people from doing SSC, or even BT. They can do it, only its harder for them via mana or spell hit. But i would say once they get their head around what needs to be done they would pick it up the same as anyone else. Another thing to mention is people that PvP have a better reaction speed to a crisis and are usually people that can adapt to a changing enviroment rather than soul PvE heads that are told what to expect and never able to think for themselves should something completly change the plan or tactic. And thus you wipe due to inexperienced nubs that are in a guild where a raid leader and their helpers think for you. Any working on your own is regarded as a no no, where as PvP is souly based around using your own strengths to help others and obtain a common team goal. And altho public raids are usually every man for themselves at times there is still alot more people trying to make it work for the team, like holy sepc people, druids in most cases, rogues for capping objectives and to say that these people are crap at PvE without actually thinking about it is a pathetic statement.
I personally enjoy ganking, altho i try to deny it so i wont get a slagging i will state now that i f***ing love it, not because i feel great about killing a low level but because eventually it will catch up and bite me in the ass. Outdoor pvp is completly random, fighting that is not dictate by a BG map, it is everywhere and anywhere and therefor you cud be attacked from any direction on the boarders of two countries or even from up in trees. Its totally new, everytime you do it. Thats why some guilds i know just raid IF and SW all day everyday, cause its a constantly changing battlefield, somedays you win others you lose, horrible.

And Btw just to let you know if pvp is such a sideline attraction why is there more PvP servers than PvE? lol you spanner, theres more PvP RP servers than RP. Because without the mix and the PvP content in the game it would just be soooooo terrible boring. As most PvE and RP people would even agree that PvP is the way to go, rather than just RP and PvE which can get extremly boring. Go check out the Suggestion forums on WoW-europe.com and read how many PvE people talk about making a mistake dedicating themselves to a PvE only server. They want to come to a PvP/PvE server but cant and there is hundreds of threads!!

All in all my passionet reply is basically to inform you that PvP, PvE and RP are all equal without any of them in the game content, this game would have died long ago! Taking one out of the structer would end the rise of this great building, that has taken so many people above the clouds of reality!!

Ivan

OMFG... so much wrong with this post too, but I'm not letting this slide!

First of all, regarding your previous post... the lore was not changed to remove or lower the amount of PvP in World of Warcraft. World of Warcraft continues on after Warcraft 3. Which, as you may or may not be aware, Medivh worked to get the opposing factions of Humans and Orcs to work together to defeat the Burning Legion/Scourge. That is essentially what they are doing in World of Warcraft, but the bonds are not as strong as they used to be so skirmishes and petty quabbles appear across the world.

Yes i have raided, not so much in outland as i decided PvP was what i enjoyed doing most. And im not saying im the best PvPer on the planet im just saying i enjoy the ever changing scenario's. PvP is always changing, you never play the same game twice because the people change therfor the fighting styles change and so in one game you

Categorically untrue. You never play the same game the same way, fair point, but you always play Eye of the Storm, Warsong Gulch, Arathi Basin, Alterac Valley or Arenas, over and over and over again. At least PvE has had some worthy additions. In fact in the time that WoW has received 5 additional staging areas for PvP it has received close to 15+ new PvE instances. What does that tell you about the majority of players playing WoW and their expectations of the game?

But your wrong the bosses in each instance obviously since MC have changed, there is different boss fights in each instance and maybe ten different ways to do them, but the fact still remains. Once you map out what to do for that boss you rarely need to change the way you tank him, or dps him. You work out the best way to kill him, usually thru looking at another BETTER guild doing it first and the copy it over to suit your guild,

Well lets see, where to start. First of all, yes pretty much the majority of all end game raiding guilds will look at strategies to help them through encounters. Because the alternative is banging your head against a wall for hours on end just to figure out the basic concepts of the fight. My guild just started doing Archimonde now and even with a solid understanding of the bosses abilities and strategies we have still wiped repeatedly for 3 nights. He is not an easy boss. The fight is very unforgiving of mistakes and any single mistake by any player can lead to a chain effect that wipes the whole raid.

Similar to an arena except with alot more riding on it. If you were to make a mistake and cost your team a game, well what have you lost. 2-3 minutes work?

you wipe and wipe untill you get it right. Name one boss in Outland that changes every week to something completly different, so that your tactics too must change? I know of one and thats in Azeroth, in BWL i think a dragon changes its moves from fire to frost or something like that. But other than that i know of none! I raided ZG and MC, a lil of BWL and Kara, and what i found most annoying was the fact that either my gear never dropped for me, that i spent more time wiping than progressing since there was only 10 bosses to master, or the one thing i hated most of all, being outbidded on iteams.

How many battlegrounds change? In WSG, in nearly every single game (except for twink games ) horde run up their graveyard side and alliance run up theirs. Both sides get each others flags and then zerg back down midfield while trying to kill the opponents flag carrier. The winner gets the point. That never changes, it is always the same. Yes, you can say that after that point the fight becomes very fluid and is dependant on the players interactions with one another as to what happens next... but then, the very same can be said about PvE and a boss encounter.

As for "10 bosses to master", thats Karazhan... there are tons of other PvE raid instances after that!

All this just to get some gear to make my character look good was boring and useless since i relised i enjoyed PvPing more. And just to point out, every nub in the game is getting epics as we speak since TBC. I know pug raids doing SSC and the likes and if you can recall SSC got a nerf so it can be more accessable to more guilds.

Unequivocally false. Every "nub" in the game is getting epics because of Arenas and BG's opening up the world of Epics to the average, Joe schmooh casual gamer. I can state this for a fact, by virtue of the fact that just before TBC hit when pretty much every guild got heavily into PvP to get the free epix! I did too. My guild were only a bit of a way into Naxx and the ease at which we were able to slaughter the majority of players as they just didnt have gear to match our own.

Well its the same deal now. Most players dont raid past karazhan, maybe gruuls lair. I'm sure some of them are getting to the stage where they are starting SSC but there is no doubt in my mind that no PUG SSC has ever been successful there.

On the other hand. It takes roughly 1 hour to play your 10 arena games every week and collect your 500 points from your 1700 rating team, or 300 points if you suck and are stuck at 1500 (3v3 higher if you have a 5v5) and so it takes you 2-4 weeks to pick up 1 piece of epic gear of the highest level available to PvE'ers. Plus you are missing out on all the pain and anguish of repeatedly fighting those "boring instances" over and over again and going through wipe after wipe...

Technically in a PvP raid every class has its job too, but since BG is really about proving your worth in battle no one really gives a toss. Problem with all BG to date is the fact that they are PvP bg's with PvE objectives. PvPing in all BG's is relatively small no big major battles since the old days of AV. Nowadays its all about easy honour and skipping anything that can slow you down, not to mention leechers or Afker's pissing around with the teams. The real PvP battles are actually just small skirmishes held around waste lands with no objective. Like in WSG under the GY's, In Ab the flags are used to draw people to them so you can just do battle (how many times have you seen people leaving flags cap'd by opposing factions just so they can kill) and in AV and EotS they are spread out lil battles and skirmishes.

First of all I'd like for you to explain to me what the PvE objectives are in Warsong gulch, Arathi Basin and Eye of the Storm. I mean, how does capturing flags in anyway represent PvE gameplay.

And these "real PvP battles" around gy's in WSG etc. are nothing but "honor farming" and is exactly what is wrong with the pvp system. People are happy to just kill the same people over and over again, no contest, no skill. Just kill them for points and buy shiny new epics. That is one of the fundamental issues with wow PvP. Try DAoC pvp to see what I mean. Yes, you get points for killing players that you can use to buy items. Yes, you gain experience for killing players (quite alot too) though you can turn the option off, if you want to. Yes, you gain an additional type of experience that advances your PvP rank which you can then use to go on and buy additional spells or abilities unique to your PvP rank and class. There is just so much to do with the system, so many rewards for killing players but it is not the retarded campfest as you get in some wow BG's. Yes, there are patrols, raving gangs of 8 people who instantly gank anyone they see. But they dont stand there and wait to kill them again as you get in WoW. Yes there are stealthers who camp bridges waiting to pick off the loan unsuspecting player, but it doesnt feel as empty as being jumped by 2-3 rogues while guarding a flag in AB..

Anyways... I'm bored now, cant be bothered reading let alone replying to the rest of your statements...

I am a hardcore PvE'er, I'm up to Archimonde with my protection paladin :rolleyes: even though according to your previous statements in the other thread, they are frowned upon...

But I also PvP quite alot. My mage is a stone guard pre-TBC, that means rank 9. My paladin is a Rival, that is the 3rd highest arena title from last season. My mage is on a 1700 rating Arena team and is equipped with Battleground epics.

Which did I have more fun with, my Paladin in PvE or my mage in PvP...?

The answer is both, equally, but the difference is it was the PvE aspect that was first here. In fact it was the PvE aspect that was all that was here until some time in April or May of 2005.

Joseph

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Faylum

Im sorry i really couldn't read your crap, no offense. It just sounds exactly like what a person from PvE would say to defend himself. And that usually means make PvP seem unimportant. I hear what your saying about PvE, i agree on some accounts but to say PvP is the same thing over and over is just stupid. And yes they are BG's with PvE objectives. Even the attempts of outdoor pvp has all had pve objectives. If you cant see this then look again, you can't miss it! Sure AV is prime example, if you say it isn't then i will point and laugh at you! Yes the objectives are the same in BG's but the people make the experience different!

TBH like yourself i cant continue this talk, since its just PvE vs PvP all over again. And i hate when you guys try to make it like you are so superior on every level compared to us. And since there is more PvE ppl on the forums i have no chance of even explaining my point since you just wont hear of it! Ta-Ta :P

BadCharlie

I don't think anyone here can say which one is better (PvP or PvE). Its all up to each person and what they like.

For me PvP after a few hours gets so boring. While PvE is so much more fun.

And someone to call anyone Skill-less cause they do PvE ( & not PvP which the poster does ) well its just a stupid statemet.


Also taking from your last post
"It just sounds exactly like what a person from PvE would say"
same could be said about your early post ^^

pedro ferio-vti

Yeah why does it always have to be this same stupid argument, PvP vs PvE...? Can we not just like both? I enjoy both aspects equally, just as Ivan has too and pointed out in case you missed it? It was yourself Faylum that was dealing in absolutes and calling PvE people nubs and not the other way around from what I can see? Unless i'm missing something.

Dustaz

Ivans post was SO good, and feylum missed the point of it so much that i thought i should point out one thing.

Ivan is higher rated on both chars in arena than feylum is on his Hardcore PvPer :P

ZorbaTehZ

PVP in wow is such a pile of **** imo when you compare it to pvp in most other mainstream mmo's. Thankfully though, the pvE is awesome.

dlofnep

I have a ram. Me and him, we're like cheese and ham we are..

Ivan

Faylum wrote: »

Im sorry i really couldn't read your crap, no offense. It just sounds exactly like what a person from PvE would say to defend himself. And that usually means make PvP seem unimportant. I hear what your saying about PvE, i agree on some accounts but to say PvP is the same thing over and over is just stupid. And yes they are BG's with PvE objectives. Even the attempts of outdoor pvp has all had pve objectives. If you cant see this then look again, you can't miss it! Sure AV is prime example, if you say it isn't then i will point and laugh at you! Yes the objectives are the same in BG's but the people make the experience different!

TBH like yourself i cant continue this talk, since its just PvE vs PvP all over again. And i hate when you guys try to make it like you are so superior on every level compared to us. And since there is more PvE ppl on the forums i have no chance of even explaining my point since you just wont hear of it! Ta-Ta :P

I started on Bladefist, a PvP server on the day of the european launch. I started out with a mage and reached 60 in a few months. Then started a druid on the same server and had fun running around ganking people in STV for quite some time.

When free transfers came up between Bladefist and Outland I moved, with the rest of my guild. When TBC was launched I moved from Outland to Hellscream, a PvE server, because I figured there was very little difference to being on a PvP server and a PvE one. And I stand by that.

You can keep your holier than thou attitude to yourself, but by virtue of the fact that we have only seen you posting here fairly recently I'm going to go ahead and assume that you have only started playing the game in the last few months.

So think what you want, the rest of us will continue to go on knowing we are right and believing that you are a bit of a twit who cannot be convinced that his opinion is anything other than that, an opinion.

pedro ferio-vti

I've been considering a move off Darkspear since last week. I'm coming up to 70 now and going to hopefully start getting geared up and attuned for raiding and there appears to be a lack of End Game, not completely but there's only 1 or 2 guilds on the server with the members geared up and capable and they both guilds seem like they're populated by egotistical w@nkers.

Also, was part of a 40 man raid on emeriss I think her name was, the world boss in Duskwood that my guild was organising. And the amount of kids that turned up in the raid was shocking.

I mean, I don't have a problem with kids playing the game, but when they go on spamming the raid channel when we're trying organise crap after being repeatedly told to stfu was really annoying. After asking they openly admitted to being 14 years old, which probably meant they were like 10 or 11 years old in reality.

Ok fair enough, you could blame the guy that organised the raid for letting the nubs in and not kicking them but we thought, Hey maybe they just have big mouths and will be able to play to some remotely average standard and we can just down this thing.

Needless to say we all got owned lol. So I supposed, i'm wondering have any of you noticed or been on any servers with a distinct low average age or whatever? Is it handy enough to transfer my character off to another server and given what i've said above, which one would you receommend? I'm not totally opposed to RP servers, wouldn't be into it myself but would put up with it if the standard of play was good and that.