The EU, in your opinion, Good or Bad for Ireland?

Mike Funnelly

Whats your opinion on the EU good or bad for the country?

Rabies

Good.
Whats your opinion?

Mike Funnelly

I was reading some of the threads in AH about 'Do you class yourself as a Republican?, and it struck me that although I would class myself as a Republican ie. I believe in the Republic and that we should govern ourselves, we are becoming part of a European "Super-State", but that we are starting to lose some of the advantages that remaining a republic would give us, such as control over Central Bank Interest rates, being obliged to implement laws coming from Brussels which are not in our best interests. That being said there is no denying that we have done extremely well from being part of the EU, but I feel that we should start asking ourselves " is being a member of the EU in the best interest of Ireland as a Republic and us as a people".

Potential-Monke

I honestly think that even though some parts are good for Eire, there are others which are bad, and what i am referring to is the way the law is enforced. Because of EU law's it's getting harder and harder for the law to be enforced without fear of being sued... We should take a leaf from Americas book and use a "Disable first, arrest, question later" approach, and if they're wrong in their arrest, then a simple "oh sorry, off with ya" reply.

cazzy

If we didnt join the EU the Tiger economy would most likely never have happened and we would still be emigrating ourselves.

Whether thats a good thing or not is personal opinion.

ScumLord

I travel allot around Europe so I think it's great.

admiralofthefleet

its great, look at all them hot eastern european birds walking around!

Overheal

Id say its not up to question: before joining the EU Ireland was as Pov' as hell: thanks to EU backing its grown into one of the wealthiest countries on the continent.

NordicDiver

ScumLord wrote: »

I travel allot around Europe so I think it's great.

Been to Norway ?

Agree with Mike Funnelly.

Ireland out of EU!

deecom

Its great! EU is the reason im now living in Slovenia, with all the hot eastern european birds!

cazzy

Yeah all the american and foreign multinationals only came here cause we were in the EU, we then offered tax breaks, we spoke english we were educated. thats where most our money came from - the medical and high tech multinational sector - Intel, Dell, Boston Scientific etc and other medical companies. They wouldnt have come here if we werent in the EU.
Then we got all that money from EU directly to build our roads and infrastructural network .
Without it Ireland would be a very different country today. We gave up a lot to get all this though - maybe it wont be until further into the future that we will regret what we gave up. Did i SEE THAT in a few years the EU will be competing in the olympics as one state and ireland wont have its own green kit but a kit and flag identical to all other EU competitors ?

AlmightyCushion

It has it's good and bad points but mostly good.

ScumLord

NordicDiver wrote: »

Been to Norway ?

Agree with Mike Funnelly.

Ireland out of EU!

Not yet no, Estonia, Latvia and Finland next.

Mike Funnelly

ScumLord wrote: »

I travel allot around Europe so I think it's great.

The EU is fantastic as regards travelling and the open borders, theres no doubt about it,however,

Overheal wrote: »

Id say its not up to question: before joining the EU Ireland was as Pov' as hell: thanks to EU backing its grown into one of the wealthiest countries on the continent.

and as Overheal makes the point, it has made us one of the wealthiest countries on the planet, not just the continent, however. Although we are so well off in appearance, the amount of debt we have is unbelievable, and this is where the EU is and will fail us in the future. Because we don't have control of our interest rates we are totally at the mercy of our European masters, who will undoubtable act in the best interests of the "big" European countries and to hell with the rest of us, that's where being an independent state monetarywise has its advantages, England's the example, the government has control over the interest rate rises and as such has control over inflation.Along with that, the way they are on about restructuring the EU parliament, we may as well pull our pants to our ankles, because we are going to get a much rougher ride in the future. The larger countries will be doing what suits them in the best interest of their people.

Mike Funnelly

Mike Funnelly wrote: »

Although we are so well off in appearance, the amount of debt we have is unbelievable, and this is where the EU is and will fail us in the future. Because we don't have control of our interest rates we are totally at the mercy of our European masters, who will undoubtable act in the best interests of the "big" European countries and to hell with the rest of us.Along with that, the way they are on about restructuring the EU parliament, we may as well pull our pants to our ankles, because we are going to get a much rougher ride in the future. The larger countries will be doing what suits them in the best interest of their people.

One of the main reasons the UK refused to "go all the way" with the EU, much harder to get shafted if you're not a fully integrated member.

But a strong united EU works better in the global economy when trading with the US.

KIVES

I tell you, if hunting of whales ever comes back into fashion we're in the wrong place...but until then, and all things remaining equal, methinks we're in the right place...EU - Although like a previous poster, I too, have a sneaky regard for the UK's 'One Foot in/the other Foot out' position on certain issues...

Thirdfox

Studying EU law right now - it would seem most of my compatriots are wary of further integration with the EU central government system e.g. EU constitution and "reform treaty" referendum we'll have next year.

The EU has expanded widely beyond its original mandate - is that a good thing? We as a small nation would be at the mercy of bigger nations anyway (in fact moreso) than if we were not part of the EU. As long as our goals coincide then we have the clout of 300+ million people behind us on the global stage (economic/political etc). Otherwise - we're just a measly country of 4 million who do not have free trade with our neighbouring countries.

I'm very pro-Euro (the coin!) and pro-freedom of travel. I would be much more wary of tax harmonisation though (a major reason the FDI keeps coming into Ireland even though our wage levels are so high). Bertie's getting paid more than the US president because we earn a lot more than our US compatriots (but I think he gets paid more than enough already).

So European Union - I vote to stay in, definitely. But keep a trace of our sovereignty please.

It's late, I'm writing a legal essay and I don't know why I wasted 5 minutes of my time talking about the EU...

BraziliaNZ

I think it's a good thing, that a little insignificant windy rainy rock like Ireland is involved in something as grand as the EU. Bertie Ahern being EU president ffs, that's the most power any Irish person must ever have had...
Personally I am so effed off with our government, I'd like to see it dissolved and have us run from Brussels or something, at least they know how to run countries on the mainland, e.g. public transport, healthcare etc.
Or would it be possible to outsource our government departments/ministers to contractors? We could get some Germans or Scandinavian pros in to do all the management and organisation, something our shower of money grabbing back-stabbing C**TS can't do to save their lives.

jtsuited

i think it's a good thing simply because i think the politicians of France/Germany/Italy/etc. aren't quite as clueless as to how to run a country as ours are.

Oh and the eastern european women!

Jesus Wept

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I honestly think that even though some parts are good for Eire, there are others which are bad, and what i am referring to is the way the law is enforced. Because of EU law's it's getting harder and harder for the law to be enforced without fear of being sued... We should take a leaf from Americas book and use a "Disable first, arrest, question later" approach, and if they're wrong in their arrest, then a simple "oh sorry, off with ya" reply.

Brilliant. :rolleyes:

leninbenjamin

Thirdfox wrote: »

So European Union - I vote to stay in, definitely. But keep a trace of our sovereignty please.

I agree with this, the EU was the best thing to ever happen to us and in it's current form is still very good for us. however a lot of the new proposals have the potential to undermine a lot of what we have worked for, particularly with the regards the tax harmonization. At the same time, full sovereignty or not, regardless of what happens to us it will still probably be better for us to stay in the EU....

Jumpy

Overheal wrote: »

Id say its not up to question: before joining the EU Ireland was as Pov' as hell: thanks to EU backing its grown into one of the wealthiest countries on the continent.

Why is it still such a hole then?

Terry

Jumpy wrote: »

Why is it still such a hole then?

How many cars are in your driveway?

Come back to me when the shít hits the fan.
Then you'll know what a hole is.

Stephen

We've done fantastically well out of the EU. I like to think of the EU as Bertie's babysitter. He and his dodgy friends can't be trusted to run the country by themselves.

ScumLord

Terry wrote: »

How many cars are in your driveway?

I don't have a driveway to put my car in, what kind of ****ed up country allows something like that to happen?

ferdi

i've always been a little wary of it tbh...unsure of the wiseness of the EUs 'march eastwards' also. i certainly would not like to be part of an EU which included Turkey.

mise_me_fein

Of course it's a good thing.

The reason Norway is rich is because of their North Sea Oil Reserves. They would lose money by joining the EU and instead have special trade agreements - they might still join in the future though.

Anyone know what this new treaty is about? I was listening to some English lad on Newstalk and he was sounding were arrogant and patronizing saying of course we shud vote yes........

I am happy with the EU but there are few things I'm starting not to like......I don't want Turkey in the EU. We let Romania in too early and I don't want to move towards are united states of Europe.

ScumLord

mise_me_fein wrote: »

I am happy with the EU but there are few things I'm starting not to like......I don't want Turkey in the EU.

That's mean. You made Turkey cry.

Terry

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't have a driveway to put my car in, what kind of ****ed up country allows something like that to happen?

The EHCR will sort you out.

mise_me_fein

Ever since Rod Stewart sang about Young Turks I've been against their inclusion.

prendy

ireland would be alot worse place than it is now without the EU...
every major piece of infrastructure built in the last 20 years is part funded by the EU..
we wud still be the s**thole people were fighting to leave in the 80's. The EU has meant alot of jobs in this country...free trade etc.

delta_bravo

NordicDiver wrote: »

Been to Norway ?

That is a rather irrelevant statement. Especially since Norway are not a member of the EU. You should at least educate yourself on the EU before you make an opinion.

Stephen

^^ I think that was his point.

Thirdfox

While Switzerland and Norway are not part of the EU they are ruled in fact if not in principle by the EC due to their proximity to union. I think it's better as a small country to be on the inside with some say than on the outside (where we are still at the mercy of the big countries and without any say).

Also - these countries are all governed by the ECHR too - so legal problems (if you see them as problems) will still remain even if Ireland leaves the EU. We would have to leave the Council of Europe too (an inconceivable idea really).

Overheal

Jumpy wrote: »

Why is it still such a hole then?

Terry wrote: »

How many cars are in your driveway?

Come back to me when the shít hits the fan.
Then you'll know what a hole is.

prendy wrote: »

ireland would be alot worse place than it is now without the EU...
every major piece of infrastructure built in the last 20 years is part funded by the EU..
we wud still be the s**thole people were fighting to leave in the 80's. The EU has meant alot of jobs in this country...free trade etc.

Its a hole for a lot of reasons I suppose, but what are you using as the scope of your question? Its full of little skanger kids? Your house looks like crap cos you dont buy paint? The weather is foul? Crime?

Perhaps you should go visit a "Wealthy Country" besides Ireland and have a proper look around: everywhere has its fair deal of ****e. For instance, just about anywhere you go in the States, its completely fabricated. Architecture? Lol; everythings a box. And you cant buy a house if you sold your spare organs. Education? You'd have to sell cocaine for finance.

The average Irish home has what, 2 cars? 2 Televisions? People go out about once or twice a week? Your neighbours actually talk to you without suspecting you of being a crook or a terrorist? Your skanger kids can get a second chance in cheap-as-hell education schemes? And oh yes, not to mention every public works notice you've seen in the last 10 years has been part-EU funded. Soon enough driving from Limerick to Galway will be a piss, Ennis will be de-strangled, and you'll be able to go from coast to coast on the one motorway (eventually) all thanks to the EU.

I cant bad-mouth the EU: for me its the difference of paying 1,000e a year for my degree instead of paying $35k a year for the same degree in the USA.

whatawaster

The EU has helped make this country what it is today, it's been fantastic and we owe them so much.

That said, I wouldn't be against leaving it now. Any potential economic downturn we go through won't be made any easier by the fact that we have little or no control over monetary policy.

Susannahmia

Of course it is. The Eu was one of the main (if not the number one) catalysts for the Celtic tiger.

constitutionus

Eh, lads. the EEC and later the EC made us what we are.

The EU stuck us with a european central bank that controls our interest rates and is indirectly responsible for the stupid levels of house prices in this country . keeping the rate low helped france and germany to get their act together economically but gave feck all regard to how it affected us hence the housing boom and subsequent 100% loans the banks gave out.

if the irish central bank hadve controled interest rates it'd be well into double digits to control house price inflation. and you could still get a gaff for 3 times your wages or not at all.

remember the ECB only put rates up to control inflation in germany. they'll be quite happy to leave 4 million property fetishes here without their shirts if it benefits the big two.

the EU as it stands is not in the best interests of ireland as thanks to NICE the things barrelling down the road to a superstate. quality majority voting and ehanced co operation essentially setting up a two tier community overturning the union of equals we've had since '73. christ the 10 accession countries are STILL second class citizens now as only 3 countries will allow their people free movement.

to my mind the projects gone far enough and is transforming into something thats not in the national interest of irish citizens. voting yes to the up coming referendum will essentially render the irish constitution redundant as it will take second place to the EU "treaty" (see constitution in eveything but name). and that boys and girls will be the end of our annoying right to vote in referendums on issues.

bertie himself said it last year "this referendum will be the last in a genreation!" and theres only ONE way that can happen.

but hey thats just my opinion

knird evol

Mike Funnelly wrote: »

I was reading some of the threads in AH about 'Do you class yourself as a Republican?, and it struck me that although I would class myself as a Republican ie. I believe in the Republic and that we should govern ourselves, we are becoming part of a European "Super-State", but that we are starting to lose some of the advantages that remaining a republic would give us, such as control over Central Bank Interest rates, being obliged to implement laws coming from Brussels which are not in our best interests. That being said there is no denying that we have done extremely well from being part of the EU, but I feel that we should start asking ourselves " is being a member of the EU in the best interest of Ireland as a Republic and us as a people".

There was no need to type all that, you could just post a link to your sin fein web site

It's been good so far, but I'm unsure if further integration will be of much benefit to us.

Mike Funnelly

knird evol wrote: »

There was no need to type all that, you could just post a link to your sin fein web site

What kind of a post is that, knird evol???

Just because I say I believe in the Republic and that we should govern ourselves, thereby classing myself as a Republican, that automatically makes me a member of Sinn Fein. Sure a couple of years ago, Bertie announced that Fianna Fail are the true Irish Republican party, type "Fianna Fail Irish Republican party" into google and whats the title of the first link returned. Are you therefore implying that every Fianna Fail supporter and member, secretly desires to be a member of Sinn Fein?? This is exactly the type of narrowminded political thinking that dominates this country.
If you had read my post, you would have seen that my opinion is that we are conceding too much of our power and law making to Brussels, to the country's detriment, Brussels only acts in the interests of the Big 2 - France and Germany, especially with regards to Finance.

Your post wasn't even on the topic of the thread, so if you are going to post, post relevantly.
And, if you must know knird evol, I vote for Fine Gael.

Sonnenblumen

Mike Funnelly wrote: »

Whats your opinion on the EU good or bad for the country?

It's like asking someone if they like breathing?

It depends on your outlook, ie, if you want to die stop breathing will get you there. On the otherhand, if you like living, well keep it up as long as possible.

Hard to imagine the country surviving outside the EU. I mean its in a sorrowful state as it is. The island of miseries and this year has been much worse than many before.

RandolphEsq

I would be a huge supporter of the EU, and in particular the ''United States of Europe''. That is the ultimate goal of the Eu; that we shall all live as one nation, as one group of people.
The EU will of course go through highs and lows to achieve this but we have to make sure that people don't jump ship during the bad times. It would be beautiful for humanity if a one world could be achieved. The EU provides a model to attain this.

knird evol

Mike Funnelly wrote: »

What kind of a post is that, knird evol???

Just because I say I believe in the Republic and that we should govern ourselves, thereby classing myself as a Republican, that automatically makes me a member of Sinn Fein. Sure a couple of years ago, Bertie announced that Fianna Fail are the true Irish Republican party, type "Fianna Fail Irish Republican party" into google and whats the title of the first link returned. Are you therefore implying that every Fianna Fail supporter and member, secretly desires to be a member of Sinn Fein?? This is exactly the type of narrowminded political thinking that dominates this country.
If you had read my post, you would have seen that my opinion is that we are conceding too much of our power and law making to Brussels, to the country's detriment, Brussels only acts in the interests of the Big 2 - France and Germany, especially with regards to Finance.

Your post wasn't even on the topic of the thread, so if you are going to post, post relevantly.
And, if you must know knird evol, I vote for Fine Gael.

alright. i owe you an apology then. The view on the EU with be identical to theirs, republic references, incorrect conclusions. If someone did come from that position it would be better if they declared that, nothing necessarily wrong with supporting Sinn Fein.

Capt'n Midnight

NordicDiver wrote: »

Been to Norway ?

Agree with Mike Funnelly.

Ireland out of EU!

Norway , you mean the one with lots of Oil and hydroelectric power and substainable forests. We are one of the most oil dependent economies on the planet. Even with the economic boom of the 60's our main export was people. In the 80's if you didn't know someone or have a top notch degree then there was a good chance you had to emigrate if you wanted a job in your chosen tehcnical field

also I'll say again most of the laws on health and safety and working time have come from the EU
btw: the data protection act came because of the US but it's so watered down

SimpleSam06

cazzy wrote: »

If we didnt join the EU the Tiger economy would most likely never have happened and we would still be emigrating ourselves.

Overheal wrote: »

thanks to EU backing its grown into one of the wealthiest countries on the continent.

cazzy wrote: »

Yeah all the american and foreign multinationals only came here cause we were in the EU, we then offered tax breaks

whatawaster wrote: »

The EU has helped make this country what it is today, it's been fantastic and we owe them so much.

Yeah, just a quick point there folks, the EU had little or nothing to do with the tiger economy. That was caused by historically low interest rates caused by (9-11 / tech stocks crash, take your pick), which enabled us to go on a borrowing spree unseen before or since. Added to that the 10% corporate tax rate, which if tax harmonisation comes into place (an EU intitiative) will be gone, along with about 85% of our industrial base, and we have a not so rosy picture.

Don't get me wrong, the EU is responsible for a lot of good around the country, the disgrace is that very few infrastructural improvements were made without their assistance - Bertie and the boys were too busy feeding at the trough.

whatawaster wrote: »

That said, I wouldn't be against leaving it now. Any potential economic downturn we go through won't be made any easier by the fact that we have little or no control over monetary policy.

Wrong, I'm afraid. If we had control over our interest rates we could reduce them to lessen the blow to the many many people who owe money on mortgages. Instead these people will be sitting at home, not spending money, and driving the country straight into a full blown recession.

xOxSinéadxOx

constitutionus wrote: »

Eh, lads. the EEC and later the EC made us what we are.

The EU stuck us with a european central bank that controls our interest rates and is indirectly responsible for the stupid levels of house prices in this country . keeping the rate low helped france and germany to get their act together economically but gave feck all regard to how it affected us hence the housing boom and subsequent 100% loans the banks gave out.

if the irish central bank hadve controled interest rates it'd be well into double digits to control house price inflation. and you could still get a gaff for 3 times your wages or not at all.

remember the ECB only put rates up to control inflation in germany. they'll be quite happy to leave 4 million property fetishes here without their shirts if it benefits the big two.

the EU as it stands is not in the best interests of ireland as thanks to NICE the things barrelling down the road to a superstate. quality majority voting and ehanced co operation essentially setting up a two tier community overturning the union of equals we've had since '73. christ the 10 accession countries are STILL second class citizens now as only 3 countries will allow their people free movement.

to my mind the projects gone far enough and is transforming into something thats not in the national interest of irish citizens. voting yes to the up coming referendum will essentially render the irish constitution redundant as it will take second place to the EU "treaty" (see constitution in eveything but name). and that boys and girls will be the end of our annoying right to vote in referendums on issues.

bertie himself said it last year "this referendum will be the last in a genreation!" and theres only ONE way that can happen.

but hey thats just my opinion

D
E
A
D

O
N

leninbenjamin

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Yeah, just a quick point there folks, the EU had little or nothing to do with the tiger economy. That was caused by historically low interest rates caused by (9-11 / tech stocks crash, take your pick), which enabled us to go on a borrowing spree unseen before or since. Added to that the 10% corporate tax rate, which if tax harmonisation comes into place (an EU intitiative) will be gone, along with about 85% of our industrial base, and we have a not so rosy picture.

that's such a single minded post....

if i were to answer fully i'd be here all day. but the EU was essential for laying the groundwork for the boom, grants, free trade. also interest rates would never have been as low as they were if we weren't part of the eurozone, the levels of demand were so high... it's the fact we were lumped in with a lagging France and Germany that facilitated this...

liberty 2007

Mike Funnelly wrote: »

What kind of a post is that, knird evol???

Just because I say I believe in the Republic and that we should govern ourselves, thereby classing myself as a Republican, that automatically makes me a member of Sinn Fein. Sure a couple of years ago, Bertie announced that Fianna Fail are the true Irish Republican party, type "Fianna Fail Irish Republican party" into google and whats the title of the first link returned. Are you therefore implying that every Fianna Fail supporter and member, secretly desires to be a member of Sinn Fein?? This is exactly the type of narrowminded political thinking that dominates this country.
If you had read my post, you would have seen that my opinion is that we are conceding too much of our power and law making to Brussels, to the country's detriment, Brussels only acts in the interests of the Big 2 - France and Germany, especially with regards to Finance.

Your post wasn't even on the topic of the thread, so if you are going to post, post relevantly.
And, if you must know knird evol, I vote for Fine Gael.

good for you!

Terry

liberty 2007 wrote: »

good for you!

Shut up.

SimpleSam06

leninbenjamin wrote: »

that's such a single minded post....

How so, I said the EU was responsible for a lot of good. Just not responsible for the "Celtic Tiger".

leninbenjamin wrote: »

if i were to answer fully i'd be here all day. but the EU was essential for laying the groundwork for the boom,

What groundwork, did they send us a few hundred thousand construction workers in anticipation of the boom? Or maybe you are referring to our still third world level infrastructure? And having lived in the third world for quite some time, I know whereof I speak.

leninbenjamin wrote: »

grants

You haven't got the total amount of grant money sent by the EU as a percentage of GNP handy, do you?

leninbenjamin wrote: »

free trade.

If free trade was the only thing that mattered, US companies wouldn't have bothered their arses relocating to Ireland. The main reason they came here was the very low corporate tax rate, which, by the way, annoys the hell out of both the EU and the US government.

leninbenjamin wrote: »

also interest rates would never have been as low as they were if we weren't part of the eurozone, the levels of demand were so high

What levels of demand? What makes you think Ireland would have been excluded from lower interest rates since banking and economics are global systems?