Power Plate versus the imitations?

randomer

I was listening to the radio today and there was a woman being interviewed. She is the woman responsible for bringing in the Power Plate. I remeber seeing one of these about four or five years ago in Westwood Leopardstown, and I thought it was a bit of a gimic.

I did a search on the web, and I found quite a few power plate copies on ebay, at a fraction of the cost. I assume they are using a similar technology.

The power plate my5 (http://ie.powerplate.com/EN/products/personal/my5.aspx) costs more than €5,000.

The "crazy fit massage" (appaling name) (http://cgi.ebay.ie/VIBRATION-POWER-MASSAGE-PLATE-GET-YOUR-DREAM-BODY_W0QQitemZ180178074586QQihZ008QQcategoryZ1521QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting) costs about €420 including delivery to Ireland.

Two questions:

1) Is the power plate any good?

2) Would the cheaper alternative be any use?

Cheers,
Randomer

Boru.

Hmm...that's interesting especially considered it was me and the company I managed at the time that introduced them to the Irish Market...oh well.

The Power Plate was brought up quite recently in a previous thread and you can read my original comments there - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055159350 as well as the objections to the training method.

For my two cents, the Power Plate works, and works very well. I train several clients solely on the plate and consider it an invaluable tool in rehab. That said, it's a very expensive piece of equipment and you can get results in a far cheaper manner - I personally am a big fan of bodyweight and isometric training, which cost's nothing and works just as well.

As for the imitation pieces - they're crap. They don;t work and they break down. The reason they don't work is because the amplitude and speed of vibration is poorly calibrated and not fast enough - they provide NO benefits what so ever. If you are going to get one spend your money on the real deal, or on a weights set or gym membership etc.

randomer

Boru. wrote: »

Hmm...that's interesting especially considered it was me and the company I managed at the time that introduced them to the Irish Market...oh well.

The Power Plate was brought up quite recently in a previous thread and you can read my original comments there - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055159350 as well as the objections to the training method.

For my two cents, the Power Plate works, and works very well. I train several clients solely on the plate and consider it an invaluable tool in rehab. That said, it's a very expensive piece of equipment and you can get results in a far cheaper manner - I personally am a big fan of bodyweight and isometric training, which cost's nothing and works just as well.

As for the imitation pieces - they're crap. They don;t work and they break down. The reason they don't work is because the amplitude and speed of vibration is poorly calibrated and not fast enough - they provide NO benefits what so ever. If you are going to get one spend your money on the real deal, or on a weights set or gym membership etc.

Thanks Boru. I did do Body Pump for a couple of years and had great results. I havent been able to get to the classes for the last 8 months because of work commitments. The classes were great, but at the moment I am not in a position to go to the classes, although I am still paying my membership :eek:

I have a few of the body pump classes on DVD and while they are very good, it is quite easy to quit when nobody is watching you!

I suppose I was looking for a shortcut!

I might go and do a trial with the Power Plate and if it is good I might get the MY3. It is 2k, but my Gym membership is over 900 and if I cancel that ...

randomer

The one thing that annoys me is the difference in price between Ireland and the UK. It is 2k in Ireland, but £1195 (just over €1700) in the uk.

mack1

randomer wrote: »

I might go and do a trial with the Power Plate and if it is good I might get the MY3. It is 2k, but my Gym membership is over 900 and if I cancel that ...

Why would you do that? You KNOW use of the gym works but instead you would rather spend 2k on a machine that you had to post here and ask if it did? and even when the guy who advocates the machine offered you cheaper alternatives you still think it's better to buy one that use the gym?

randomer wrote: »

I suppose I was looking for a shortcut!

what do you mean was?

randomer

mack1 wrote: »

Why would you do that? You KNOW use of the gym works but instead you would rather spend 2k on a machine that you had to post here and ask if it did? and even when the guy who advocates the machine offered you cheaper alternatives you still think it's better to buy one that use the gym?


what do you mean was?

I know going to the gym works, but at the moment I am not in a position to do that. I am short on time.

I have tried following body pump classes from home, but find it much more difficult that when I was going to the gym. The time element is also a factor. If I can do a the equivalent of a 60 minute workout in 15 minutes, that is much more important to me at the present time.

I have done research on the power plate, and my questions here were to get the opinions of some other people who have an interest in the area of fitness.

Boru said "the Power Plate works, and works very well".

He then when on to say that "If you are going to get one spend your money on the real deal, or on a weights set or gym membership etc".

The time element of the exercise is more important to me than the cost. I know of much cheaper ways to exercise too, but at the moment I am looking for a way to buy more time and this could be the solution.

Colm_OReilly

1) Is the power plate any good?

Good for what? I presume you mean good for muscle development and/or core stability.

Do elite level athletes, who's bodies depend on muscle development and core stability use them, no.

If you want core strength, do overhead squats, perfect push ups, shoulder presses, l-sits. Buy some rings (less than €100!) and see how much they help your balance!

Boru.

randomer, you're more than welcome. If you have any specific questions or queries feel free to pm me.

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

Do elite level athletes, who's bodies depend on muscle development and core stability use them, no.

Actually Yes. Yes they do, including Manchester United and Chelsea, the Green Bay Packers, the NBA Chicago Bulls, and a whole lot more as well as being endorsed by the United States Olympic Committee. See Charter 1 - get your facts straight.:p;)

As for a list of what it's good for you know that answer to that it's in the original thread.

At the end of the day there are lots of ways to get fit and be healthy. Some of them are bodyweight, some use weights, some use cross fit and some use a Power Plate. Rather than perhaps constantly attacking people (and Colm this isn't directed at you, it's a general observation of the recent attitude here) we should be celebrating and encouraging people to exercise - to find creative and effective ways of doing so that they find beneficial and fun. Instead people seem bent on gratifying thier own egos by justifying thier own training methods and running down anything that disagrees.

I've said it a dozen times here - there's more than one way to get fit and strong and healthy. Some like crossfit, some like olympic lifting, I like Iso's and randomer seems to like the Power Plate. And you know what the great thing is -we're all right - you're right for you, I'm right for me, and maybe we should let randomer find out if this is right for him.

How about rather then attacking people with different concepts and idea's why don't we ask intelligent questions, ask how it works and how it has benefited that person. We'd all learn a whole lot more and it would be far better than just stroking our own ego's and satisfying ourselves that we do in fact know everything and what's best for other people. And you never know it might, just might benefit us and our training too. /End Rant.

YogiDirra

Do you know of any gym in Ireland that have these Power Plates Boru?

Thanks...I'm looking into them for my gym.

Superstrong

I have to agree with Colm.Where were people before power plates came along?The reason they are in gyms is for the easy way out for people.If most average gym users had the choice of using the power plate or squatting they will obviously take the easy way out.Thats whats wrong with so many modern gyms.They are to busy looking for gimmicks to attract clients.Will the power plate replace physios for rehab aswell Boru?

The FitnessDock

Superstrong wrote: »

Where were people before power plates came along?

Where were people before the Internet came along? Well they were actually doing fine. That doesn't mean that the Internet isn't a brilliant addition to what they already have.

The same goes for supplements. There were supremely healthy people before they came along. You can get fantastic results by eating regular whole foods. Likewise you can also add supplements to your diet to get fantastic results too.

Superstrong wrote: »

Will the power plate replace physios for rehab as well Boru?

Likewise, will supplements replace whole foods? The answer to both questions is NO.

The key point here is choice. If you're happy doing 20 set squats, great - keep it up. If you're getting great results with a Powerplate, all power to you.

As Boru says, there are many different ways to get fit, lose weight and get strong. Find which one suits you best, train hard and get the results you want.

Roper

I believe Bolton Wanderers were the first ones to use them in England when Fat Sam was in charge, they were a fit strong bunch before that though.

I'm always wary of the "next big thing" in exercise and fitness. To be honest, I'm "for" anything that gets people off the couch but I'm also "for" the continued progress of people so they don't go back to the couch! I just think that people get bored of machines, and would be better off being involved in a sport or activity. Maybe then they would use machines to supplement that activity but their interest in a sport or the motivation of their team mates would keep them coming back.

So usually when I see someone say "I'm looking to buy a rowing machine cos I want to get fit" I'd say "go join a canoe club, et fit, meet people, learn a sport, challenge yourself".

dontdoit

YogiDirra wrote: »

Do you know of any gym in Ireland that have these Power Plates Boru?

Thanks...I'm looking into them for my gym.

David Lloyd in Dublin4 have them and think westwood have a few too

Hanley

AFAIK SV Fitness in the IFSC has (had at least) one too.

Vegeta

Roper wrote: »

So usually when I see someone say "I'm looking to buy a rowing machine cos I want to get fit" I'd say "go join a canoe club, et fit, meet people, learn a sport, challenge yourself".

What if people don't want to travel all the way to the canoe club, have enough friends in their lives and are already busy enough without adding the need to learn a sport.

It aint so black and white.

I will also add as someone who trains at home it is much easier to stay motivated. Driving 40 minutes to the gym or walking up stairs. Its a no brainer for me anyway

rubadub

Vegeta wrote: »

What if people don't want to travel all the way to the canoe club, have enough friends in their lives and are already busy enough without adding the need to learn a sport.

It aint so black and white.

Yes, my take on it is that I have no need for cardio specific training machines or time set aside for it. I walk to the shops/mates/pub etc. I cycle to work & back everyday, I have access to a car sometimes but never use it as it takes longer to drive or go by bus. So by getting in actual functional cardio work I end up with even more free time than if I did not cardio at all.

And the motivation is getting to work on time!, if you skip the gym or homeworkout there is no penalty, can't ditch the cycle to work on a rainy day.

I also train at home so if I get the urge to scoff a lot I can get a bit of training in before I do it, so at least some of the excess calories will go to some use.

Vegeta

I envy anyone close enough to work that it allows them to cycle in. At 23 miles its not really an option for me

I live a nice bit away from any gym or sports team so home training is the way for me and i much prefer it to the gym. I was a member of a gym last year but didn't renew my membership this year as it was a waste of money and instead bought all the equipment.

Haven't looked back since

Boru.

Hi YogiDirra,

As the guys have mentioned the above gyms have them and so does Westwood last time I was upper there. There is also a Power Plate Studio out in Star Fitness in Bray, and of course my studio .

Paul, thanks again for saving me the trouble of having to explain myself, it's very much appreciated and I couldn't do a better job. It also has the added benefit of sounding sane, when you say it.

At the end of the day, the Power Plate is a tool, use it or not it's up to you. There are loads of ways to train and each to his own. If you're happy doing what you are doing and getting the results you want in a safe and effective manner, then you're doing the right thing by you and that is what is most important.

Roper

Vegeta wrote: »

What if people don't want to travel all the way to the canoe club, have enough friends in their lives and are already busy enough without adding the need to learn a sport.

It aint so black and white.

I will also add as someone who trains at home it is much easier to stay motivated. Driving 40 minutes to the gym or walking up stairs. Its a no brainer for me anyway

Never said it was black and white, never said "make new friends", said "meet people" which is entirely different, and as for being "busy enough", thats fine, I can relate but we're talking about getting fit so I'd make time for that if I could. The canoe club is an example, everyone has a sports club near them.

But if you're happy enough at home and you can motivate yourself from there, cool. But look at this link
I don't think a treadmill, power plate or any other piece of apparatus for the home is as good as the benefit of sport. The fact that you can train at home does not negate the fact that most people can't or won't.

Vegeta

Roper wrote: »

I don't think a treadmill, power plate or any other piece of apparatus for the home is as good as the benefit of sport.

Why do you think that?

I would not agree at all. In most sports you rely on the person training you for the effectiveness of the session and at best you only become fit for that specific sport.

At home you can train how you want for what you want.

EDIT: I do agree though that a trainer at a sport will usually push you that bit harder than you might push yourself

rubadub

What ever suits the person I suppose. Almost every person I know who does sport has an injury, nearly always some ongoing one, or permanent one, like guys with bad knees who say they cannot do squats. Lads with bad shoulders or hands etc. I avoid running since all I hear about is complaints from mates, and posts here of people with various problems.

Some sports might be less accident prone, like rowing, but I have no such club near me. I also prefer to do it on my own time and terms and not disappoint a team if I cannot turn up. I can stay motivated, as I said I have to cycle to work, or lose my job!

I also might not agree with a trainers methods, I know realise my old PE teacher didnt have a clue, and I wouldnt want to do half the stuff I see the lads doing in my local GAA/Rugby pitch during training.

As for the buyandsell ads- all the better selection for people who will work at home! there will a fresh batch of equipment in feb once the new year resolutionites give up!

BossArky

Vegeta wrote: »

I envy anyone close enough to work that it allows them to cycle in. At 23 miles its not really an option for me

Yes it is an option.

I used to cycled 35km each way to work, which is just about the same as your 23 miles. That was 350km each week, taking under an hour each way in the morning / evening --> about the same as if I went via public transport.

It was a great way to fresher up in the morning and get your cardio in, plus a stress relief at the end of the day.

Vegeta

BossArky wrote: »

Yes it is an option.

I used to cycled 35km each way to work, which is just about the same as your 23 miles. That was 350km each week, taking under an hour each way in the morning / evening --> about the same as if I went via public transport.

It was a great way to fresher up in the morning and get your cardio in, plus a stress relief at the end of the day.

What country was this in?

I'd also definitely need a shower after that type of a cycle and change my clothes. This turns a 30 minute drive into an hour and a half commute each way. That's 3 hours getting to and from work a day. No thanks, I'd rather spend those 2 hours (3 hours to cycle but 1 hour to drive, so 2 hours net) lifting weights, jogging and/or rowing.

rubadub

BossArky wrote: »

Yes it is an option.

I used to cycled 35km each way to work, which is just about the same as your 23 miles. That was 350km each week, taking under an hour each way in the morning / evening --> about the same as if I went via public transport.

It was a great way to fresher up in the morning and get your cardio in, plus a stress relief at the end of the day.

Or just cycle in on a monday, bus home, leave the bike there and cycle home friday evening. Somebody starting out would find it rough, until the fitness level increases. Or else cycle/walk to a train/bus stop (with a good lock!) and once fitness improves go to the next stop.

Roper

Vegeta wrote: »

Why do you think that?

I would not agree at all. In most sports you rely on the person training you for the effectiveness of the session and at best you only become fit for that specific sport.

At home you can train how you want for what you want.

EDIT: I do agree though that a trainer at a sport will usually push you that bit harder than you might push yourself

Yeah being in your living room watching CSI on a cross trainer is far healthier than being with other people in a sports environment.

I love this, suddenly it's "oh no all coaches are rubbish anyway I don't want to rely on them and what about the INJURIES!" Sure there's bad coaching but I would say that even though methods differ and I would disagree with some coaching methods, the majority are good. Injuries come with the territory and I'd sooner be pushing myself to the point where I might get injured than playing it safe in my garage.

Rubadub,

The reason casual runners get injuries is:
Bad footwear,
Poor technique
Running on concrete with bad footwear and poor technique

My bro-in-law runs marathons and says he'd never seen so many Dunnes Stores trainers in one place as in the Dublin Marathon. Either those or Nike Shox! Wear the right shoes, get someone to look at your stride and you'll avoid most of the common running injuries and you'll get something you can do for life, get outdoors, and get fit.

Vegeta

Roper wrote: »

Yeah being in your living room watching CSI on a cross trainer is far healthier than being with other people in a sports environment.

I love this, suddenly it's "oh no all coaches are rubbish anyway I don't want to rely on them and what about the INJURIES!" Sure there's bad coaching but I would say that even though methods differ and I would disagree with some coaching methods, the majority are good. Injuries come with the territory and I'd sooner be pushing myself to the point where I might get injured than playing it safe in my garage.

Rubadub,

The reason casual runners get injuries is:
Bad footwear,
Poor technique
Running on concrete with bad footwear and poor technique

My bro-in-law runs marathons and says he'd never seen so many Dunnes Stores trainers in one place as in the Dublin Marathon. Either those or Nike Shox! Wear the right shoes, get someone to look at your stride and you'll avoid most of the common running injuries and you'll get something you can do for life, get outdoors, and get fit.

Whoa where is this rant coming from, you addressed none of the points I raised dude. Why quote my post and then criticise points I never even made

I never even brought up injuries at all.

You seem to think training for a sport is better than training at home yet have nothing to back it up bar opinion. That's a very narrow minded view. All you have to do is look at some of the crossfit guys and see the potential for training at home.

Roper

Pah...
rather than getting into an I said you said discussion I'll simplify.

• If you are training at home and it suits you, great.
• I would say that for every 1 of you there is 100 people selling the ab-worker 3000 this week
• Of those 100 people, how many would benefit from having coach or a team instead of a credit card and an instructional DVD?
• Sport is good
• Crossfit is fine and dandy, but I bet when someone says they have a "Home Gym", they're talking about the Bodypumpin Automatico Machinerama. (soon to be in a free ads paper near you) not an O-Set and a chinning bar.
• Sport is healthy in more ways than one. It gets you socialising, which people just don't do anymore outside of the pub.

Vegeta

well to avoid a quote-fest starting here, all I'll say is that bad training is exactly that, bad training. This can happen at home on your own and in a hall or pitch with a team.

There is no reason why a sport can make you any fitter than training on your own

BossArky

Vegeta wrote: »

What country was this in?

France (Strasbourg to Haguenau)

Vegeta wrote: »

I'd also definitely need a shower after that type of a cycle and change my clothes. This turns a 30 minute drive into an hour and a half commute each way. That's 3 hours getting to and from work a day. No thanks, I'd rather spend those 2 hours (3 hours to cycle but 1 hour to drive, so 2 hours net) lifting weights, jogging and/or rowing.

Yeah a shower for definite! You don't have to do it every day. Twice a week would be a good aim for the first few months. You can then take a day off in between the cycle and gym.

Hanley

Vegeta wrote: »

There is no reason why a sport can make you any fitter than training on your own

Look at the best in the world. Do they train on their own or as part of a team?

In any sport.

YogiDirra

Boru. wrote: »

Hi YogiDirra,

As the guys have mentioned the above gyms have them and so does Westwood last time I was upper there. There is also a Power Plate Studio out in Star Fitness in Bray, and of course my studio .

Paul, thanks again for saving me the trouble of having to explain myself, it's very much appreciated and I couldn't do a better job. It also has the added benefit of sounding sane, when you say it.

At the end of the day, the Power Plate is a tool, use it or not it's up to you. There are loads of ways to train and each to his own. If you're happy doing what you are doing and getting the results you want in a safe and effective manner, then you're doing the right thing by you and that is what is most important.

Thanks a lot...looking forward to using one and seeing what all the fuss is about! Gonna have to travel up to Portlaoise and Dublin to see some....thanks again.

Vegeta

Hanley wrote: »

Look at the best in the world. Do they train on their own or as part of a team?

In any sport.

So you are saying of the people who participate in sport the best train as part of a team. Fair enough but that's not what we are talking about at all.

We are not talking about the best in the world, we are talking about the complete opposite actually. People who struggle to train at all.

I want to point out there's a large difference between training alone and training at home. Most nights I train there are at least two people (me and my brother) if not 3.

So Hanley lets say your gym, Hercs right? Was in the garage of your very large house and all the guys who train with you call over every time you train. How would you see that, you'd be training just as hard but at home. I cant see how it really makes a difference.

If you have the equipment, motivation and education I cant see how training at home is any disadvantage

Hanley

Vegeta wrote: »

There is no reason why a sport can make you any fitter than training on your own

Vegeta wrote: »

So you are saying of the people who participate in sport the best train as part of a team. Fair enough but that's not what we are talking about at all.

I mus be mistaken then because when you said about there being no reason tha a sport can make you fitter than training at home I obviously thought that to mean you can get as fit at home as with a sport.

If that's the case then why aren't more top leve athletes training on their own?

Maybe because you can't get as fit at home on your own? you can still get to a high level. But I sincerly doubt you can absolutely get to the same fitness level as if you were in a gym with others to push you.

randomer

BossArky wrote: »

Yeah a shower for definite! You don't have to do it every day. Twice a week would be a good aim for the first few months

I would recommend that you shower more than twice a week. Daily would be better.

Vegeta

Hanley wrote: »

I mus be mistaken then because when you said about there being no reason tha a sport can make you fitter than training at home I obviously thought that to mean you can get as fit at home as with a sport.

You have yet to give one solid reason why a sport is better than a home set up ala crossfit. How does moving the equipment and people you train with to your house suddenly lessen the quality of your training?

If that's the case then why aren't more top level athletes training on their own?

Maybe because you can't get as fit at home on your own?

On your own, I'd accept that its harder to train. No spotter, no one to drive you one etc etc but as I said above home training does not equal training on your own. I apologise if i was ambiguous earlier but I have always been thinking about a crossfit style home training when posting. Good equipment, other driven people training and measured results, you don't need a sport for that

you can still get to a high level. But I sincerly doubt you can absolutely get to the same fitness level as if you were in a gym with others to push you.

So Are you honestly telling me if your gym and training partners were suddenly part of your house you'd stop training there because you question its effectiveness. That's just not true dude. You said yourself in another thread that you have more exams and course stuff coming up (fair play for being able to compete at a high level and juggle all that) and that you'd love to train at home.

You can train hard and smart (with others at home) or in a field/track/gym with a team. Just because the latter guys wear the same colour jersey/dobok/gear doesn't make the training any better.

rubadub

Hanley wrote: »

Look at the best in the world. Do they train on their own or as part of a team?

In any sport.

If you are at a very top level you are probably professional, and many sports will have teams, like soccer, or other individuals at that level can afford personal trainers, or a specialist team. It makes sense that they would have a team at a top level.

This whole home vs team/gym. started from this comment

So usually when I see someone say "I'm looking to buy a rowing machine cos I want to get fit" I'd say "go join a canoe club, et fit, meet people, learn a sport, challenge yourself".

Which I take to being a bloke trying to lose a beer gut, rather than a guy trying to be a champion sprinter or powerlifter.

I know guys and sports suits them, they think I am crazy if I walk to a pub, yet will get up at 8 on a sunday to go training. They need the motivation or being on a team, and having to turn up to not "let the side down". I said in other threads about this snobbish attitude some have to functional exercise- they will pay a man to cut the grass and garden or clear rubbish, or have a maid. Then they will pay for the privelege of doing the same amount of cardio work in a gym that could have been done at home, and walking to places. I am just talking of people doing light exercise here, not competeing at any level.

It was me who mentioned injuries like from running, and it can be poor technique/runners etc. I also meant general injuries, my mates have had hands smashed from hurls, and bad tackles etc. It suits them, I personally dont like the risk of it, so avoid it, and have enough self motivation to do my own thing.

Each to their own.

Roper

Vegeta wrote: »

You have yet to give one solid reason why a sport is better than a home set up ala crossfit. How does moving the equipment and people you train with to your house suddenly lessen the quality of your training?

Qualified coaching for one thing can enhance your training experience. Safety standard in gyms are going to be higher. And to take Hanley's gym as an example, there's going to be people around you doing HUGE numbers and you get to walk over and ask them how they got there.

I'm not saying that your home crossfit style gym is useless, or even that you won't get great results there, I'm just saying it's in second place.

Also you've answered yourself.

Vegeta wrote:

How does moving the equipment and people you train with to your house suddenly lessen the quality of your training?

Vegeta wrote:

On your own, I'd accept that its harder to train. No spotter, no one to drive you on

Rubadub wrote:

Which I take to being a bloke trying to lose a beer gut, rather than a guy trying to be a champion sprinter or powerlifter.

Yes, thats the way I meant it. And I stand by it too. If someone has allowed themselves to get into a situation where they have a beer gut, unhealthy diet, sedentary lifestyle, it is going to take a HELL of a lot of motivation to get them out of it. Doing it on your own is going to be a lot harder than doing it with like-minded individuals, or people who are already where you want to be. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm saying it's much, much harder. And maybe if there were more people going to the swimming club rather than looking for an easy out like a home treadmill, power plate, awesome ab machine etc. then we would have a fitter society.

Also, as I've said before, there's the social and community impact of being involved and supporting a sports club. But that one's for the sociology forum

Hanley

Vegeta wrote: »

On your own, I'd accept that its harder to train. No spotter, no one to drive you one etc etc but as I said above home training does not equal training on your own. I apologise if i was ambiguous earlier but I have always been thinking about a crossfit style home training when posting. Good equipment, other driven people training and measured results, you don't need a sport for that

See that to my mind is different. That's just like traiing at home in a private gym.

My argument is that training on your own at home isn't as effective as training in the gym with a group/team. Obviously my point of training in a group being more beneficial exists regardless of where the training occurs, so to that end, yes I do think that if you're training at home in a private facility with a group of people then it wouldn't be a hinderance in getting to the top level of what ever you're trying to do.

It seems we were arguing parrallel points...

Vegeta

Also you've answered yourself.

How?

I said training alone is harder, but again who says training at home = training alone?

Vegeta

Hanley wrote: »

It seems we were arguing parrallel points...

Maybe the 3 of us just like arguing

Roper

Read ALL of my post again, especially the bits about coaching, safety, motivation etc.

I keep giving you those reasons and you keep saying "you've yet to give me a reason".

Dragan

Personally i think training in a public environment has been a large factor in every gain i have made over the last few years.

Whether i know someone in the gym or not, just something about being in one can get my blood going..... i train harder, quicker and smarter when it's on show.

I don't know why.

BossArky

Dragan wrote: »

Whether i know someone in the gym or not, just something about being in one can get my blood going..... i train harder, quicker and smarter when it's on show.

I don't know why.

Same here. If training at home was fun I would say in my bedroom lugging dumbbells around. However, I find it boring.

I prefer cheesy music, mixing with chavs and fighting with people over equipment.

Damn, now that I typed it all out there probably is alot to be said for working out at home. Still, I prefer the gym. It has probably got to do with spending time outside of your usual surroundings.. so when you get back home you can relax more in those same comfy surroundings.

Vegeta

Roper wrote: »

Read ALL of my post again, especially the bits about coaching, safety, motivation etc.

I keep giving you those reasons and you keep saying "you've yet to give me a reason".

Instead of quoting every aspect of your post I pointed out where you were clearly misquoted me (which you have now skipped around again, training at home does not equal training alone) but if you want me to argue with all of it then here we go.

Coaching can go both ways, there is no guarantee that you get a good coach. I have gotten some terrible coaching and some great coaching in my time (Tim Murphy and Debra Donovan from UL are examples)

If I look at the local GAA clubs and sunday league soccer team none of the trainers are qualified. I presume most clubs in the country are in this situation, some obviously would be lucky enough to have proper qualified trainers but they would be in the minority

Safety, saftey of what exactly? Having been a member of a commercial gym for over 2 years the only reason a gym would be safer than my current set up is because they repair broken equipment. The staff never really stop someone when they see them doing an exercise poorly or dangerously. Also lots of team sports are more dangerous by their very nature as they involve body contact. So again safety is not a valid reason to take up a sport over training at home with a small group

Motivation is an individual trait and varies from person to person. For example my brother has played soccer for Limerick 37, Limerick City FC, Sligo Rovers and Galway United. So even though he played at the highest level possible in this country for his sport his motivation was always lacking and as a result his fitness has always been a problem for him. So motivation is not a valid reason why training for a sport makes it better than training at home with like minded people.


Roper I have layed out my arguement very clearly at this stage. I ask you this, take our beer bellied friend who wants to lose his pot and improve his general fitness, most people here would say sort your diet, lift weights and do cardio, would you agree with that?

Now I ask which approach most suits that, a crossfit type approach or your average sunday league soccer team/GAA club?

Dragan

Vegeta wrote: »

Instead of quoting every aspect of your post I pointed out where you were clearly wrong

I think if you change this type of thing to "where i disagree with you" you'll find this thread won't get heated and then locked.

It's not your place to tell anyone they are wrong Vegeta, by all means disagree, but never assume you knolwedge base and opinion is more accurate or valuable than anothers.

Dragan
- no shirts, no shoes

Vegeta

Dragan wrote: »

I think if you change this type of thing to "where i disagree with you" you'll find this thread won't get heated and then locked.

It's not your place to tell anyone they are wrong Vegeta, by all means disagree, but never assume you knolwedge base and opinion is more accurate or valuable than anothers.

Dragan
- no shirts, no shoes

believe me I do not assume/think I know more than Roper and will edit the post

I apologise to anyone I may have offended

G

rubadub

BossArky wrote: »

Same here. If training at home was fun I would say in my bedroom lugging dumbbells around. However, I find it boring.

I prefer cheesy music, mixing with chavs and fighting with people over equipment.

Damn, now that I typed it all out there probably is alot to be said for working out at home. Still, I prefer the gym.

I am pretty much the opposite, so still stick by my "each to their own" comment. In other threads I was saying I was surprised more do not train at home, after reading a lot of negative comments about gyms. I also like my privacy, and not having people waiting in line after me.

I said I have mates who do seem to need to be in a team to be in so they must turn up each sunday to train. Some are just doing it as a way to lose weight. After doing my own research I found what were the best exercises to suit me. These guys do no weight training in the club, which helped me hugely to lose fat. They also do some exercises I would not enjoy, like jogging/running. I prefer to cycle and it is more functional to me, I have no real need to run in daily life, if I need to go somewhere I cycle. These guys are doing situps, I would see squats as time better spent, etc.

Roper

Vegeta wrote: »

Instead of quoting every aspect of your post I pointed out where you were clearly misquoted me (which you have now skipped around again, training at home does not equal training alone) but if you want me to argue with all of it then here we go.

I prefered it when you said I was clearly wrong:D. I didn't skip around it I answered it. If you're training at home with mates, as opposed to in a good gym with good coaches and, for example, experienced lifters to give you advice etc. you will get better more quickly. I really don't see how you can dispute that. To repeat myself, I keep answering and you keep saying I'm not answering.

If I look at the local GAA clubs and sunday league soccer team none of the trainers are qualified. I presume most clubs in the country are in this situation, some obviously would be lucky enough to have proper qualified trainers but they would be in the minority

You'd be wrong at this stage. The GAA have a very good coaching programme for kids and adults, soccer the same. Voluntary sport depends on volunteers though, and I could also say that in canoe clubs for example, every instructor is highly qualified. Of course, qualifications do not equal quality coaching, but thats another argument.

Safety, saftey of what exactly? Having been a member of a commercial gym for over 2 years the only reason a gym would be safer than my current set up is because they repair broken equipment. The staff never really stop someone when they see them doing an exercise poorly or dangerously. Also lots of team sports are more dangerous by their very nature as they involve body contact. So again safety is not a valid reason to take up a sport over training at home with a small group

Well if you go to a commercial big box gym and rely on the trainers there you'll be in trouble straight away. But I'm not talking about going to your Jackie Skelly's or Total Fatness, I'm talking about a sport. If you don't want to play a contact sport then... eh.... don't... do one of the hundreds of non-contact sports! Badminton, tennis etc.

Now I ask which approach most suits that, a crossfit type approach or your average sunday league soccer team/GAA club?

That assumes people in their homes are using crossfit, they're not. They're using Davina McCall's workout DVD, the ab shaper pro and the treadmill they're going to sell next month.

Vegeta

Roper wrote: »

I prefered it when you said I was clearly wrong:D. I didn't skip around it I answered it. If you're training at home with mates, as opposed to in a good gym with good coaches and, for example, experienced lifters to give you advice etc. you will get better more quickly. I really don't see how you can dispute that. To repeat myself, I keep answering and you keep saying I'm not answering.

Well you can have a good gym in your house. Yes a good coach is a benefit, these are rare and I can count how many I've had on 2 fingers of the many sports I've played. Not only that but casual gym training is not a sport, so even if there are coaches and dudes giving you advice its just training and could happen anywhere.

You'd be wrong at this stage. The GAA have a very good coaching programme for kids and adults, soccer the same.

Really considering I know the trainers of all the local teams and in the next parish and the next one over (girlfriends brother plays for them), none of them are trained or qualified. My dad is an inter county GAA ref so I am pretty much brain washed with GAA talk at home.

Yes the GAA has come on leaps and bounds, training and qualification wise but not at the level of average Joe Beer Belly. Junior A or Intermediate. Senior and Inter county are ahead again, local club is Senior.

Well if you go to a commercial big box gym and rely on the trainers there you'll be in trouble straight away. But I'm not talking about going to your Jackie Skelly's or Total Fatness, I'm talking about a sport. If you don't want to play a contact sport then... eh.... don't... do one of the hundreds of non-contact sports! Badminton, tennis etc.

I'm sorry but in my opinion there is no way playing a sport like tennis or badminton will give you the same overall level of fitness as someone who trains strength, flexibility, speed, endurance/stamina etc that is kind of a side arguement and I think your next comment is the crux of it

That assumes people in their homes are using crossfit, they're not. They're using Davina McCall's workout DVD, the ab shaper pro and the treadmill they're going to sell next month.

In honesty you know someone who lifts weights, jogs, sprints, rows, stretches will be in better shape than someone who just does a little more running and some kicking or swinging

I am not training like that, rubadub is not training like that. That's just poor training. You are picking the worst possible training regimes to compare to sport.

My arguement has always been if a person has the education (negates the need for a coach: at the level we are talking about here, obviously at higher levels coaches are valuable tools), drive and equipment (no Davina DVDs need apply) they can achieve very similar if not better results in overall fitness (fitness is not just the ability to run and sprint around a field or court) than someone who just takes up an amatuer sport

Your arguements for your case

Coaches: Generally in a low level sport coaches help more with technique than actual fitness. Not all coaches are of a decent standard and advice can be sought on the wonderful place that is the internet. Training partners will generally tell you if you are training poorly at home anyway. Therefore I think coaches are not a valid reason to say home training is inferior to sport. A coach cant hand you results, you still have to work for them

Safety: No sport or home training is 100% safe so this really is a moot point. Even in the likes of tennis and badminton people get injuries. Any speculation on the % of injuries at home versus in sport is pure BS on both our parts.

Motivation: Again this is a personal trait and some people need it from others some people don't and can self motivate. If you are lazy about training regimes then your returns will be limited no matter what the surroundings.

Look I cant convince you and you cant convince me so there is no point us to continue with our quote fest.

Is it easier for someone grossly out of shape to just turn up at a field twice a week and kick a ball around. OF course it is, he has removed a need to educate himself, he has surrendered his fitness to someone else. Is it better training than if he was at home with decent equipment, education and motivation. Not necessarily and I definitely don't think so

ali.c

Roper wrote: »

and I could also say that in canoe clubs for example, every instructor is highly qualified. Of course, qualifications do not equal quality coaching, but thats another argument.

Yeah they are qualified and need to do re-assessments every couple of years but then its a bit different that playing football with the local team as they also need to have insurance or stuff. They is loads of rules about level of instruction required to bring out types of groups etc. Anyhow its really neither here nor there to be honest, adventure sports are more tightly regimented due to insurance and of course the higher level of risk involved. Also for someone looking to get fit and short on time though its not the best example as in my experience we are talking about almost a full day at the weekend between getting there and getting home etc. Most of the clubs in the dublin area do a full day on the weekend. Great if you have the time and its loads of fun but not ideal for someone looking to purely to lose a few pounds.

Boru.

I'm shocked we still have discussion like this on boards. It's a pointless and circular argument that provides absolutely no benefit and, more importantly is detracting from the original thread - which is certainly not helpful.

The Op asked a question and it was answered and a second related question was asked later on and it too as answered and yet somehow those original questions and answers have been lost in an argument that is asking justification of personal preference that has NO RELEVANCE to either of the Power Plate questions.

Barry, I honestly don't get this. A question was asked and Hanley, dontdoit myself and yourself answered that question. That was a useful contribution.

What is not useful is voicing a personal opinion based solely on your subjective analysis that is unrelated yet undermines the thread and now has resulted in Vegeta and others feeling a need to justify something that requires no justification.

How does that contribute or help anyone?

It doesn't it confuses the issue and those who will look at this thread later will be confused as to what they should do, what the best way to things is and will more than likely suffer paralysis by analysis and end up doing nothing.

At the end of the day there are benefits and drawbacks to training in sports and training on your own or training at a facility or at home - and you know what, they are all equally irrelevant in the face of getting it done or not.

You like sports that's great. Other people don't, and rather than hounding them about that decision and trying to justify why sports are better and thus by implication those who don't train in sports are clearly making a poor decision, perhaps it would be a better approach to realize we are not all the same and that everyone has the right to do that which suits them and that they enjoy. Equally what is the point in arguing against this and being equally obstinate in an inaccurate claim that at home training is superior to team training in a sport - they are entirely separate training methodologies with different goals and attributes.

Please, let's end this as it is not constructive or helpful and either get back to the matter at hand, which I believe has been settled or close the thread and open a new one to pointlessly debate Sports vs At home Training.