Q+A on Import Duty+Tax [Do Not Ask How to Avoid!]

Puteq

Yesterday I received a letter from some company called 'Avance' who were contacting me on behalf of 'Federal Express Europe Inc' threatening to 'commence formal proceedings' against me unless I paid 40 quid into a bank account in Dublin.

Sounded like the usual spam garbage to me, but I tried calling the 1800 number in the letter just in case, and of course it didn’t work. So today I phoned FedEx to let them know some spammers were using their name to scam people - only to find it is apparently real! I had bought RAM from the crucial.com website in July, and apparently FedEx had to pay the customs and imports tax on it or something, so now they were after me to pay them. I asked why they were sending debt collectors instead of just writing to me and asking me to pay themselves and they told me thats what they usually do and maybe the letter was lost in the post or something - sounds a bit unlikely to me.

Now pls note - I know the rules here and I am NOT looking for a way to avoid tax or anything like that, but whats the story here - I previously bought from crucial a few times in the past and never had this. Is this some new thing, or is every online purchase subject to this but customs only randomly check a few things or what? I am wondering because this would influence my decision to buy online in future, if I had to pay this much cost on top of the price on the site then the net is suddenly not a very attractive option at all…

PS: the original cost of what I got (I don’t remember exactly) was about 100 quid so I find 40 quid quite high

Beano

we really need a sticky on the whole duty and vat thing.

Everything brought into the country from outside the country is liable for duty and vat. The amount is (purchase price + shipping cost) + duty (anything from 0 to 13.5% depending on the item) + VAT of 21% on all of this. There is also a handling charge levied by the courier company/An Post. This charge can vary from €5 to €15.

It is random wether you get charged or not. Only so many parcels can be inspected. Anecdotal evidence would suggest that certain courier tend to attract duty and vat more than others. UPS are particularly bad. Deliveries via An Post are usually quite good at avoiding charges.

Our man in Havana

Basically all the major couriers (DHL, FedEX, UPS etc) will sell you out to the tax man. They simply calculate the cost from the declared value and send this to the tax man. Every package is "inspected".

An Post is the least likely to get caught.

Puteq

I wonder is there any element of 'hey, you cant charge me money i didnt agree to pay' kind of argument, cos i only signed on and agreed to pay what crucial.com presented to me on their website. Or is there some small print somewhere i missed that makes it my tough luck?

jor el

Beano wrote: »

Everything brought into the country from outside the country is liable for duty and vat.

Anything imported from outside the EU is liable for VAT and duty, anything within the EU should already have it paid so is not liable. The values and charges you mentioned are correct though. The biggest con is the courier is allowed to charge up to €15 admin fee for paying for you. Why don't you have the option to pay it yourself and avoid this ridiculous fee. It can sometimes be larger than the VAT itself.

Puteq wrote: »

I wonder is there any element of 'hey, you cant charge me money i didnt agree to pay' kind of argument, cos i only signed on and agreed to pay what crucial.com presented to me on their website. Or is there some small print somewhere i missed that makes it my tough luck?

Strange you had to pay anything at all. Any time I've ordered from Crucial it came from France. Did you leave the currency in $ or the country as USA? You can change it to Europe and the charge in € and send from within the EU so you're not liable for any further charges. Something to note in future.

FedEx should really have contacted you about the charge instead of sending the hired goons in. It is possible that this got lost in the post, and also possible it never left their offices.

Unfortunately no way around this, you accepted the goods and now you have to pay.

311

Crucial have a european site ,you don't pay vat on goods bought in the EU.
I've used them a few times.

Beano

jor el wrote: »

Anything imported from outside the EU is liable for VAT and duty, anything within the EU should already have it paid so is not liable. ...

correct. i really need to preview before i post.

quazzy

Hi folks,

I want to know how much extras I will be required to pay if ordering a Jacket from the USA.

The jackets costs $250.

Is it just 21% or x% customs and then 21% on the total.

Any linkies would be appreciated?

Regards,

jor el

From the horse's mouth, so to speak. There are PDF leaflets and other documentation here. Have a look around the rest of revenue.ie for more info if needed.

Customs is charged on the total of the delivery, this is the item value plus the shipping value. For clothing, I believe it's 12%. VAT at 21% is applied on top of all this and then an administration charge of up to €15 may be applied by the carrier. An Post generally charge €5 here, others will charge the full €15 allowed.

There's a question about customs and VAT every other day so I think I'll sticky this for a while.

BobTheBeat

As regards second hand items, is the buyer still liable for full taxes and duties relating to same?

Drazhar

Is there anything official about this, like is there an "i dont know what a tracker mortgage" type site anywhere that covers this?

jor el

I've merged in two posts from another thread as they relate to VAT and import too. On that thread, I linked a page on www.revenue.ie that shows the tax liability for imports. No mention 2nd hand, but I believe that if you're buying it from outside the EU then VAT is still due on it. There may be more information around that site.

ow2h7nft1me9i4

[Do Not Ask How to Avoid!]

I am sure "avoiding" tax is perfectly legal and its only tax evasion that is illegal?? Maybe you should change the thread title;)
Im feeling rather cheeky this evening

Our man in Havana

I agree with you 100%. Avoidance of tax is legal, evasion of tax is not. They are not the same thing.

jor el

Them's the rulez though. Asking about tax avoision (it's a word) is equally as barred as tax evasion.

I think the idea is basically that people don't ask for ways to avoid paying a bill they've been presented by customs or a delivery agent. At this point, your parcel has already been inspected, valued and taxed. Also, asking how best to bring something in from outside the EU so as to maximise the possibility of avoision (still a word), is also not allowed. You are free to answer along the lines of "Get it sent through post (not a courier) and there's a good chance your parcel won't be inspected. If it is though, you must pay up".

I'm not sure if it's illegal or not to avoid paying VAT and import duty, though I think it might be.

Our man in Havana

Fair enough so.

It's the guys that say, get the sender to stick $30 value on a package worth $300 that annoy me most. It's that sort of thing that should be banned from being discussed.

You are free to answer along the lines of "Get it sent through post (not a courier) and there's a good chance your parcel won't be inspected. If it is though, you must pay up".

I have no problem with that.

TweekeewT

Apologies if this counts as asking how to avoid duty & tax, but a question presents itself. As stated on that page on Revenue.ie:

Consignments not exceeding a total value of €22 may be imported without payment of Customs Duty and VAT

However, does anyone know what exchange rates the Revenue uses at any given point to calculate if something is over or under the limit?

TweekeewT

That would certainly be the logical answer

However, the UK's Revenue & Customs, for example, officially picks its rates at the beginning of each month, and applies them in its calculations for the whole of that month.

I was wondering if our guys did anything similar.

12bore

I am looking to buy something from Germany, they say if I give them a VAT number, they wont charge me VAT. I am VAT registered here, so I can give them a number, will save me about €100.

How does that work? Am I breaking some law here? I think we did something similar in a sports club I am in, saved about €300 by giving someone's vat number when buying something from England.

If this is a dodgy question, feel free to delete it.

jor el

I am looking to buy something from Germany, they say if I give them a VAT number, they wont charge me VAT. I am VAT registered here, so I can give them a number, will save me about €100.

If you or your company are VAT registered and the items you are buying are for your business and being paid for by the business, then you can supply the VAT number as business don't pay VAT. If this is something for yourself and being paid for by your own money, then you can't. Doing so is illegal, and if your business is audited you'll be heavily fined and possibly face a prison sentence.

How does that work? Am I breaking some law here? I think we did something similar in a sports club I am in, saved about €300 by giving someone's vat number when buying something from England.

Someone's VAT number sounds like it was done illegally. If the sports club has a VAT number (not sure if clubs can do this), then they can use their own, but can't use someone else's. Perhaps if that someone's business owns the club, then the business VAT number could be used.

If this is a dodgy question, feel free to delete it.

The question is fine.

Mr Velo

Guys,

I just bought an iPod touch from the US, cost me €274.00 including delivery. (€250 + €24 delivery).

The current status is that it's in Customs in PortLaoise. It's going to be delivered by An Post (in a few days i guess). Anyone have any idea what i'm going to be charged in Customs Tax etc?

jor el

At a rough estimate, I'd say about 100 euro.

Mr Velo

jor el wrote: »

At a rough estimate, I'd say about 100 euro.

Thanks jor el

Do u mind me asking how u made that up? (rough as it may be).

jor el

First is import duty. This varies, depending on what you buy. I think for electronics though it's about 10-12%. On €274 this is about €28 making the total no just over €300. 21% VAT on this then is 63 bringing you up to €363 and then An Post will add €5 usually as an admin fee, though they're allowed to charge up to €15. So if this is now up to €368, that's not far off €100 above what you paid.

Of course, this all depends on whether the value was actually displayed on the outside of the package. If it wasn't, then the customs officials will value to iPod themselves, at the full Irish price, and do the calculation based on this value. That would cost you even more then.

Mr Velo

Just phoned customs. Package has gone back to An Post with a €77 charge stuck on it. Not as bad as i thought - but disappointing all the same.

prodigal_son

jor el wrote: »

I'm not sure if it's illegal or not to avoid paying VAT and import duty, though I think it might be.

Tax avosion is legal, it basically means following the letter of the law to pay as little tax as possible. You avoid paying the tax, because you dont have to.

Problem is, its hard to discuss avoision without discussing evasion which is illegal. You evade the tax, although youre supposed to pay it.

A perfect example is, ordering something from the EU, by doing so you have avoided tax that would apply to ordering something from the US. 100% acceptable.

I do have a question about this whole carrier doing the taxation though.

I got a present, someone bought it online for me from america, I got hit with a tax bill a couple of weeks later.. I dont really want to pay 40 quid for the item, and i would rather send it back than pay that for it.. I have no idea where i stand though, any help would be appreciated, but i also understand that people might not be able to answer me..

jor el

prodigal_son wrote: »

A perfect example is, ordering something from the EU, by doing so you have avoided tax that would apply to ordering something from the US. 100% acceptable.

But buying within the EU means that the tax has been paid, just maybe at a cheaper rate than you would here. Buying alcohol or cigarettes here is expensive because of the tax levied on them by the Irish government. If you buy them in Spain, for example. you pay less as they don't put as much tax on. You haven't avoided the tax, just the higher rate of tax.

I got a present, someone bought it online for me from america, I got hit with a tax bill a couple of weeks later.. I dont really want to pay 40 quid for the item, and i would rather send it back than pay that for it.. I have no idea where i stand though, any help would be appreciated, but i also understand that people might not be able to answer me..

That's a good one, and I'd like to know if anyone knows the answer to it. I think, that once you accept the parcel then there's nothing you can do. You must now pay the charge. It's a bit crap though that they don't tell you about the charge when you accept the parcel and you only find out when a bill arrives in the post. I guess you'd be best querying this with Revenue to see what the real answer is. If you send it back, will the tax liability be gone? I don't know.

Our man in Havana

The liability only goes if you refuse the package at the door and it is returned to sender immediately. Once accepted the liability remains and will need to be paid. Sending it back at this stage will not work.

coxy123

Folks,

Can someone clarify something for me(maybe I missed it somewhere). I received goods+delivery this week which came to $400 and this amt. was evident on the sales docket. Fed-ex delivered the parcel. What I would like to know is what is my tax liability here and how am a billed for this and who will it come from??Tks.

BTW - Product originated in US.

Mint Sauce

could some one please clarify this for me, if i buy something from play, total value of products, almost e300, firstly, i'm asumeing their EU, secondly, i'm asuming, because of this, delevery wont be delayed and tax applied, please correct me if wrong on any of above

this is not a question on avoiding it, would just like clafication on weather i'm likely to be charged or not,

jor el

irish-stew wrote: »

firstly, i'm asumeing their EU,

They are not. Play.com is based in Jersey, outside the EU and no VAT applies. Anything valued at over €25 would be VAT liable. Play do ship all items separately, and in most cases there's no problem.

There's no hard and fast answer to this one. If you do, you do. If you don't, you don't.

Mint Sauce

jor el wrote: »

They are not. Play.com is based in Jersey, outside the EU and no VAT applies.

thanx for reply, just seen it on their website just after i posted

Brethitmanhart

Hi,
I am a company with a valid VAT number, I know from previously ordering items myself (for my own use) that when it comes through UPS they actually charge you as much as they can (they actually estimated a shipping charge to be double what it actually was when it said the real shipping charge on the box).

I'm ordering a product from HongKong, for company use and I have a VAT number, What I'm wondering is do I give the HK company a VAT number (as you would inside EU) or do I send it through and deal with UPS (which I really dont want to do as they are liars and give you false charges).

Also what charges would I still be liable to pay?

Thanks

longshanks

depending on what you order, (i sometimes order fishing and outdoor gear) if you get the sender to mark it repairs, you shouldn't have to pay any import charges

sweetie

TweekeewT wrote: »

Apologies if this counts as asking how to avoid duty & tax, but a question presents itself. As stated on that page on Revenue.ie:

However, does anyone know what exchange rates the Revenue uses at any given point to calculate if something is over or under the limit?

Customs guy told me today that they get a montly rate

ball ox

are you charged on second hand items? i.e. stuff from ebay

shayser

How close to real world figures would xe.com be? It's quoting me AU$35 : €20.39. Cutting it close for the €22 cut-off point.

Edit: What would I owe in tax for €35 worth of DVDs (inc. post/package/ins).

Thanks.

studiorat

ball ox wrote: »

are you charged on second hand items? i.e. stuff from ebay

Yes, from the states anyway. Once again it depends on how it's shipped(see above). Best factor it in to yer budget anyway.

shayser

What's the import tax % on DVDs (or is it the same for all imported products)? Looking at some box sets from aussie?

kerash

Ordered a camera from the US for $999,dhl arrived this morning looking for e249. He had no bill with him and said i should have heard from customs about it, so he's comin back with the print out tomor. Its stil cheaper that what i'd buy in Ireland, but I would have rather not have paid it. Bad times:(

The Failed God

i bought something on ebay from the states. Package was shipped 12 business days ago, and delivery was ment to have been made in 3-5 days. Its a fairly bulky item so im pretty sure i will be charged customs. My question is, is it normal for customs to hold an item, as im gettin worried the item has been lost in transit?

Canonfan

Hi all,

I bought a digital camera on ebay from the states, it was delivered this morning by An post and I paid €34.61 (Vat €29.61 + Post office clearance €5).

I bought a few things from the states and I expect to pay duty, Vat etc.

My question is why no duty was charged this time.

Thanks.

jor el

I've never seen a duty charge on anything coming through An Post, only ever seen VAT and An Post handling charge. Maybe they aren't too bothered about it, as long as they get the VAT.

Abelloid

Does anyone know what the situation with Fedex etc. charging and additional €10 (plus 21%) "admin" on top of the Duty and VAT?

They are charging for a service (paying the fees) you didn't ask for - I know this is being successfully contested with Parcelforce in UK now, but why do we have to pay this extra charge?
When you buy something online you are given a shipping total that you agree to, but then they can simply add to it when the item arrives!?

Why aren't we given the option to pay the fees and avoid this extra charge?

Hero Of College

Deacon Helpless Windstorm wrote: »

I am sure "avoiding" tax is perfectly legal and its only tax evasion that is illegal?? Maybe you should change the thread title;)
Im feeling rather cheeky this evening

Bang on.

shayser

If I buy something in the EU I just pay the VAT rate of that country, right? There's no "balancing" of the VAT rate up to the Irish rate, or anything like that? e.g. from UK I just pay the 17.5% at the point of sale and that's it?

As the sale is to Ireland is it the done thing that the seller will charge the Irish rate and not their country's rate?

blastman

I just got hit with a bill from Fedex for 32 Euro on an item that cost $75 (approx 50 Euro, for the sake of argument). I think that's crazy. Although there was a shipping charge, I don't think it was included in the figures (VAT figure is given as being around 17 Euro)

What infuriates me off is that Fedex have charged a tenner, so one third of the amount is free money for them, and that after adding duty (which was a small amount admittedly), VAT and the admin fee together, VAT is charged AGAIN on this amount. It's a complete rip, really taking this p!ss!! :mad: :mad:

Silver Serpent

Hi,

I've just purchased a component cable from the States. The total value was $50 (postage included), which is roughly 33 euro.

It was sent via USPS, so will be delivered by An Post here I presume.

Do you think I'll get away without a customs charge (as it's not too far away from the 22 euro limit), and if not, how much do you think I'd have to pay?


Thanks in advance.

Our man in Havana

You should be fine. Low value items sent thru USPS tend to slip thru the net.

invincibleirish

Am i mad to consider buying a $300 item (a beanbag) off a US site? reading through the posts it seems to be roughly a third of total price charged by customs so am i right in adding $100 to the total cost?

jor el

25-30% would be a good guess alright, so it all depends on how much it would cost here. If it's going to work out cheaper overall, then import it if you're going to get it anyway.