Atheists using phrases with God in them

rubadub

clown bag wrote: »

I'm an atheist and I do use phrases like "God only knows"

Thats a smart term for an atheist to use though- as in "nobody knows".

monkeyfudge

tech77 wrote: »

So then we move onto those reared atheist:
Semantically God/Heaven etc would have no meaning for them from the outset so i guess they would still not use phrases with religious terms in them even if the pervasive culture around them was religious

Of course they would. You emulate the language and phrases you hear on a day to day basis. And these phrases are used a lot by people and in television and movies.

Hellm0

tech77 wrote: »

No, wasn't intended that way at all TBH.

I'm just interested in the connections between religious belief/atheism, culture and cognition/language.

What i've gathered is:
Many posters here who were raised catholic (but later became atheist) say, it's a habitual thing only.
In other words ingrained through culture growing up and retained in language albeit only semantically vestigial (ie without any real meaning for them).

So then we move onto those reared atheist:
Semantically God/Heaven etc would have no meaning for them from the outset so i guess they would still not use phrases with religious terms in them even if the pervasive culture around them was religious

I'm still waiting to hear their view to confirm this.
But If they did start using religious terms, It'd be a bit like a Christian using phrases with Allah etc in them after spending time in a Muslim country wouldn't it?

The use of language is heavily based upon context and culture, not to mention the dialect and idiolect of the peoples communicating. I really dont think that religion enter's into it for the most part, the meaning of such expressions as "oh my god" or "jesus h christ" is more of an explative or to express suprise rather than in any way a reference to the local cultural deity. Perhaps this is different in other cultures, IE would you say "holy f*ck thats a big hat" to the pope? Context and culture are key.

thelordofcheese

Hellm0 wrote: »

Perhaps this is different in other cultures, IE would you say "holy f*ck thats a big hat" to the pope?

Well, i would now.
If i ever meet the pope thats the first thing i'm going to say to him.

neuro-praxis

I don't use any of the above phrases. But I was raised in a pretty atheistic environment and every second expletive out of my father's mouth was "Jesus Christ!"

I had to train myself to stop using them. Now I only talk about God when I'm talking about God.

Useless fact! "goodbye" is a shortened version of "god be with you".

It's just a habit to use common sayings without any thought to their true meanings (unless your're very PC of course, can't offend athiests with a phrase with the word god in it! :rolleyes:).

ferdi

JIZZLORD wrote: »

well holy god!

chopperbyrne wrote: »

I'm a big fan of using a Miley inspired and in thick accent "O Holy God!"

just what i was thinking!

Dave!

It's irrelevent whether you're raised an atheist or raised a Christian. If you grow up in Ireland, expressions like "for gods sake!", "god bless", "for the love of jayzis!", etc., are all heard every day, dozens of times. A child growing up with those expressions being used regularly is always going to pick up on them and start using them theirselves. It's not a mystery really. By the way, they're often used by Christians who aren't supposed to take the lord's name in vain........

If god-fearing Christians don't give it much thought to use these expressions, you can bet that atheists, who don't believe in any gods, REALLY don't care that they're used.

Science H. Logic, move on with your lives!

Tar.Aldarion

I use instant classics like 'Oh my Einstein' and 'For Newton's sake'.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

can you say hello in Irish without referencing God?

monkeyfudge

What you Hawking about?

Dord

Mordeth wrote: »

can you say hello in Irish without referencing God?

Thats one thing that pissed me off about the language!

Does anyone know if this is possible though??

Stephen

DaveMcG wrote: »

Science H. Logic, move on with your lives!

Science H. Logic is always a great crowd pleaser
I'm an atheist. The only religious based phrase I find myself using much is jesus christ/jaysus. I try to avoid such things as much as possible. I was raised a catholic though, so I guess its built in to me by now.

echosound

Raised catholic, now atheist. I'd be guilty of using phrases such as jaysus h christ or christ on a bike in exasperation alright, purely out of habit, but I have mixed it up a bit by referencing other deities. Eg "in the name of Zeus what are you doing" or "Oh - your - actual - god" (thank you bender) or "for allah's sake" etc.
Don't tend to do it very often however, don't know who you might offend, and I have plenty other words that can offend all people equally, which I tend to go for in times of exasperation in the name of equality for all.



As to saying hello in Irish, don't think there is any official way to say hello, unless you use a profoundly wandering sentiment, or just go the way of "irish-ing" up the english version, like "bhuel, a chara, conas a ta tu" (sorry stupid keyboard won't let me do fadas) etc.

Joe Robot

Joe Robot wrote: »

Thats one thing that pissed me off about the language!

Does anyone know if this is possible though??

"Hi, conas tá cúrsaí!" "Hi, hows it going" perhaps..

Dord

Deleted User wrote: »

"Hi, conas tá cúrsaí!" "Hi, hows it going" perhaps..

I guess that'd work. Thanks!

Kipperhell

tech77 wrote: »

No, wasn't intended that way at all TBH.

I'm just interested in the connections between religious belief/atheism, culture and cognition/language.
Blah blah...

You are starting with an assumption and trying to find somebody to tell you are right!
Many secular friends of mine use expressions referring to religion as it it is just common language and expression. I suggest you watch Pen and Teller's Bull****! about foul language. It might clear up a few of your views.
Atheists tend to generally accept history and religions imagery around them as part of life. All the reference to how they would object to the names of the week and any reference to God is set for the fanatical that tend to exist in a lot less numbers as there is no real set doctrine to follow.
Just because you don't belong to a religion mean little in using the imagery and storied. Leonard Cohen often refers to Jesus yet he is Jewish and lived as a monk for many years. I have a cool 3d Jesus clock because it is kitsch

I would generally say many people using sayings they don't even understand them such as "mind you Ps and Qs" and "wet your whistle".

tech77

Kipperhell wrote: »

You are starting with an assumption and trying to find somebody to tell you are right!
Many secular friends of mine use expressions referring to religion as it it is just common language and expression. I suggest you watch Pen and Teller's Bull****! about foul language. It might clear up a few of your views.
Atheists tend to generally accept history and religions imagery around them as part of life. All the reference to how they would object to the names of the week and any reference to God is set for the fanatical that tend to exist in a lot less numbers as there is no real set doctrine to follow.
Just because you don't belong to a religion mean little in using the imagery and storied. Leonard Cohen often refers to Jesus yet he is Jewish and lived as a monk for many years. I have a cool 3d Jesus clock because it is kitsch

I would generally say many people using sayings they don't even understand them such as "mind you Ps and Qs" and "wet your whistle".

No.
Don't know why people are getting so testy about this TBH.

Would a reared atheist using religious phrases in a religious culture not be akin to a reared Christian using Muslim phrases in a Muslim culture like Alayhis Salam and others found here
Maybe Christians in Muslim countries do use these phrases, i don't know.

It has to be admitted though the quotes below and others do attest to some unease/conflict among atheists between their beliefs and the prevailing language.

Stephen wrote: »

Science H. Logic is always a great crowd pleaser
I'm an atheist. The only religious based phrase I find myself using much is jesus christ/jaysus. I try to avoid such things as much as possible. I was raised a catholic though, so I guess its built in to me by now.

Joe Robot wrote: »

Thats one thing that pissed me off about the language!

Does anyone know if this is possible though??

echosound wrote: »

Raised catholic, now atheist. I'd be guilty of using phrases such as jaysus h christ or christ on a bike in exasperation alright, purely out of habit, but I have mixed it up a bit by referencing other deities. Eg "in the name of Zeus what are you doing" or "Oh - your - actual - god" (thank you bender) or "for allah's sake" etc.
Don't tend to do it very often however, don't know who you might offend, and I have plenty other words that can offend all people equally, which I tend to go for in times of exasperation in the name of equality for all.

As to saying hello in Irish, don't think there is any official way to say hello, unless you use a profoundly wandering sentiment, or just go the way of "irish-ing" up the english version, like "bhuel, a chara, conas a ta tu" (sorry stupid keyboard won't let me do fadas) etc.

So whatever about using something for kitch value as with the Jesus clock, in the case of language, it's a bit different.
Some expressions are more than just turns of phrase and do carry genuine sentiment (especially when wishing someone well etc). If these sentiments however need to employ religious terms every time they are expressed you might think this would jar with an atheist's thinking after a while.

I can't help feeling people would be better atheists if they didn't have all this religious phraseology pollluting their thinking.

Red Hand

Better atheist? Lol!:p It's not like atheism is a movement or something-it's just a term used to describe someone who is lacking the religious memoplex.;)

tech77

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

Better atheist? Lol!:p It's not like atheism is a movement or something-it's just a term used to describe someone who is lacking the religious memoplex.;)

Well yeah I know it sounds funny but i'm guessing there are degrees of atheistic devoutedness (devotion sounds a bit misplaced) which i'm guessing are characterised by use of language among other things.

Better atheist = atheist more assured in their confirmation of the non-existence of God = Someone who would have greater difficulty incorporating religious terms into speech (especially if they used language judiciously which i'm sure a lot of atheists would and in the case of phrases which carry a lot of sentiment).

Hellm0

tech77 wrote: »

Well yeah I know it sounds funny but i'm guessing there are degrees of atheistic devoutedness (devotion sounds a bit misplaced) which i'm guessing are characterised by use of language among other things.

Better atheist = atheist more assured in their confirmation of the non-existence of God = Someone who would have greater difficulty incorporating religious terms into speech (especially if they used language judiciously which i'm sure a lot of atheists would and in the case of phrases which carry a lot of sentiment).

Dude, the use of "religious language" is in fact just a cultural register, it has nothing to do with faith. Its similar in a way to the use of Phatic Language in that people barely know their using it.

I think your anylising athiesm through the goggles of a dogmatic religion. There is no need for "confirmation" of the non existance of god in athiesm, it is the default assumption and not something to be thought about overly. There is no "Dogma" to adhere to, aside from a shared lack of beleif, the degree's of which are a personal matter.

The Chessplayer

Jesus Christ what a load of old sh!te this thread is.

The Chessplayer

I'd probably be an agnost myself.

What religion were Luke Skywalker and OB1 Kanobi? What did OB1 mean when he said: "the force is strong in you young Skywalker."

Hellm0

The Chessplayer wrote: »

I'd probably be an agnost myself.

What religion were Luke Skywalker and OB1 Kanobi? What did OB1 mean when he said: "the force is strong in you young Skywalker."

Clearly they were Rastafarian

tech77

Do Christians adopt uniquely Muslim phrases with religious terms in them if they are brought up in Muslim culture or vice versa .

Or Jews adopt uniquely Christian phrases etc.
(if they do, well fair enough).

But why do atheists adopt religious terms in their language (I concede the phrases are stripped as much as possible of original meaning but still..).

I hate this excuse of culture TBH.
Culture is nothing more than a reflection of attitudes/behaviours etc expressed through appropriate language.

Why not have an ATHEISTIC CULTURE then with its own alternative phrases instead of borrowing them from a religious one.

I wonder does Richard Dawkins pepper his speech with many OMGs.

tech77

Do Christians adopt uniquely Muslim phrases with religious terms in them if they are brought up in Muslim culture or vice versa .

Or Jews adopt uniquely Christian phrases etc.
(if they do, well fair enough).

But why do atheists adopt religious terms in their language (I concede the phrases are stripped as much as possible of original meaning but still..).

I hate this excuse of culture TBH.
Culture is nothing more than a reflection of attitudes/behaviours etc expressed through appropriate language.

Why not have an ATHEISTIC CULTURE then with its own alternative phrases instead of borrowing them from a religious one.

I wonder does Richard Dawkins pepper his speech with many OMGs.

Hellm0

tech77 wrote: »

Do Christians adopt uniquely Muslim phrases with religious terms in them if they are brought up in Muslim culture or vice versa .

Or Jews adopt uniquely Christian phrases etc.
(if they do, well fair enough).

People use the dialect they are brought up in, however this changes depending upon the social context. I will use different language in professional situations than I will with my friends. Certain words, phrases and ritualistic uses of language are native to different situations.

tech77 wrote: »

But why do atheists adopt religious terms in their language (I concede the phrases are stripped as much as possible of original meaning but still..).

Read the above.

tech77 wrote: »

I hate this excuse of culture TBH.
Culture is nothing more than a reflection of attitudes/behaviours etc expressed through appropriate language.

Culture is much much more than this and you should read up on the subject of communication before making statements like that.

tech77 wrote: »

Why not have an ATHEISTIC CULTURE then with its own alternative phrases instead of borrowing them from a religious one.

Athiest's have a culture and a lexicon of terms to go with that, however people are social animals and hence interact with people of many other cultures and creeds. Also, just because you dont beleive in god does not mean you have to divorce yourself completely from every other linguistic culture just because it may be religious when taken in a different context. When I use "jesus christ" as an explative around my mates I'm not talking about the biblical JC, I'm saying "I'm suprised!"

tech77 wrote: »

I wonder does Richard Dawkins pepper his speech with many OMGs.

Who gives a damn, form your own opinions.

Dave!

tech77 wrote: »

Well yeah I know it sounds funny but i'm guessing there are degrees of atheistic devoutedness (devotion sounds a bit misplaced) which i'm guessing are characterised by use of language among other things.

Better atheist = atheist more assured in their confirmation of the non-existence of God = Someone who would have greater difficulty incorporating religious terms into speech (especially if they used language judiciously which i'm sure a lot of atheists would and in the case of phrases which carry a lot of sentiment).

No. Just no. Stop reading so much into this. There are CULTURAL and societal reasons why those kinds of phrases are prevalent in Irish society, and why people pick them up when they're young. It has nothing to do with how religious someone is. I'm sure some atheists make the effort not to say them, but the vast majority don't give a sh*t about it, because they don't believe it is of any importance whatsoever that they say "bless you" when someone sneezes.

rainbow kirby

Force of habit more than anything else.

Jack Sheehan

For f***s sake has kind of replaced for gods sake for me. Which is a little crude admittedly but at least I'm not saying 'Science damn you!