Archbishop unleashes attack on recreational drug use... that means YOU, scumbag!!!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

i've never taken crack, but I don't think doing the jitterbug is the first,or even seventh thing that comes to mind after taking it..

Red Hand

True. It is hard to beat the Foxtrot, isn't it?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

funny story, my dad picked up two american hitchikers (girls) years ago on the way from dublin. he asked them where they were going, they answered clare and he replied 'ah, the craic is great down there'

he said there was a silence for a while, then one of them said 'uh... we don't do drugs'

Red Hand

Funny story! Reminds me of Father Ted when Mrs Doyle gets raisens and crack mixed up.:D And, that series was shot in Clare.

Hellm0

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I'd listen to his view if he was an archmage.

Wheres Gandalf when you need him eh?

humanji

Can we not just link to the (many hundreds of) old threads that rehash these arguments over and over? It'd save a whole load of time and we can get back to the important topics such as Magick's morning Terminator shower routine, or whether toilet seats should be up or down.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

or maddy mcann

I think we should have a prohibition of children, it's the only way to deal with the paedophilia crisis.

Red Hand

Hellm0 wrote: »

Wheres Gandalf when you need him eh?

Getting high off of weed and blowing pyschedilic smoke ships from his pipe like in The Fellowship of the Ring, methinks.;)

humanji

Or we could give paedophiles free orphans, and thus stop them stealing our ones

cooperguy

He's right. If you buy drugs then you are putting money into the hands of drug trafficers and this is what they are fighting for. How can people not see this?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

if the government legalised drugs, people other than criminals would produce them and we'd buy form them. How can you people not see this?

humanji

Well you have to take into account that the government will want their cut and will screw over the consumer. Then criminals aren't going to give up just like that, it just means that now they have less to worry about.

Rob_l

I'd still buy my drugs from the criminals if they were legalised it wouldn't seem as cool to get a score bag if you bought it in a shop

Outer Bongolia

http://www.gargaro.com/drugs.html

Argument 4: "Legalizing Drugs Will Reduce Crime.."

Crime will also not be reduced by drug legalization. Studies show a correlation between drug use and crime - violent crimes such as homicides, assaults and domestic violence. Why is this? It's quite simple - drugs cause violent behavior.

Has anyone considered that the reason that people committed a crime was because they were ON drugs in the first place - legal or not? That they weren't necessarily committing a crime to get illegal drugs, but the drugs themselves caused a violent behavior (which would not magically go away if the drugs were legal) which lead them to committing a crime - something that would not have happened if they had not TAKEN drugs? In actuality, crime will rise when drugs are legal because more people will be taking drugs. Crime is high in high-drug use areas not because people are committing a crime to get drugs, but the influence of the drugs made them more inclined to commit a crime. For instance:

A report in the Journal of the American Medical Association (7/6/94) reports that cocaine use is linked to high rates of homicide in New York City and that "homicide victims may have provoked violence through irritability, paranoid thinking or verbal and physical aggression which are known to be pharmacologic effects of cocaine."

Data from the National Institute of Justice (U.S. Department of Justice) Drug Use Forecasting (DUF) program underscore the crime-drugs link. Of a sample of males arrested in 23 U.S. cities in 1993, the percent testing positive for at least one drug in the DUF survey ranged from 54% in Omaha to 81% in Chicago. Among female arrestees, the percent testing positive for any drug in 20 cities ranged from 42% in San Antonio to 83% in Manhattan.

The violent behavior caused by drugs won't magically stop because the drugs are legal. Legal PCP isn't going to make a person less violent than illegally purchased PCP. So, crimes committed because of drugs will increase as the number of drug users increase with the legalization of drugs. The psychopathic behavior that drugs cause will not somehow magically stop because drugs are legal.

Legalization proponents ignore the fact that the people committing violent crimes are career criminals who will not stop their illegal activities once drugs are legalized; they will instead seek new sources of illicit revenue.

I am not denying that some of the present crime is due to the profit motive behind illegal drugs. I admit that causes crime. However, if drugs were legal, not only would there be an increased crime rate due to the increased number of people who were taking drugs, but there would still be a "black market" and profit motive, which brings me to my next point..The Black Market.

Many argue that the element of profit would be eliminated. If drugs were legal, it is suggested that they would be sold at regulated government stores. Or according to economist Milton Friedman, at "ordinary retail outlets." Other legalizers say that drugs would be given out to the poor addicts who could not afford them.

William F. Buckley believes prices would be low enough to wipe out the black market. Buyers would, however, be heavily taxed to pay for drug education programs and rehabilitation centers.

Yet the tax would make it possible for criminals to undercut the official price and continue to rake in profits. So then what does the government do? Make prices so low that a second-grader with a few pennies can afford it and leave them no revenue for the proposed program? And think about this: drug related crimes are the highest where crack is the cheapest.

In addition to the official price being undercut, there are drugs that even most legalizers agree are too dangerous to make legal, such as crack and PCP. So guess what! Unless we legalize crack, PCP, and heroin, the black market will still exist for the more dangerous drugs. Now, let me stress this again - even if drugs are legalized, there will still be a black market for them. I stress this because people continue to write to me wailing "But legal drugs will get rid of the black market!" The black market argument is old, unfounded, and not logical. And even if legalization eliminated the black market, does this mean we legalize everything to avoid a black market? Let's legalize stealing - after all, then these poor robbers won't have to sneak around, and possible harm someone out of fright. See, we can cut down on deaths by legalizing robbery! Sound silly? Exactly.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

humanji wrote: »

Well you have to take into account that the government will want their cut and will screw over the consumer. Then criminals aren't going to give up just like that, it just means that now they have less to worry about.

drugs *should* be taxed.. heavily.

i don't mind paying top euro if it means quality control.

AngryBadger

Either legalise Marijuana, or make alcohol illegal, then I'll consider listening to the rants of a guy that is essentially a well-dressed bottom feeder.

rubadub

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

Whats the equivalent of a speakeasy these days?

Pubs & clubs with illegal "beergardens", i.e. smoking rooms. I also reckon a few speakeasy type operations are probably in place, probably all mates pooling money but could be technically illegal- e.g. a mate who has a bar setup in the house so mates can come & smoke, unless they bring their own drink I think it is illegal to sell to them in there.

The smoking ban is a good example of recent prohibition which many did not think was right, and so some continue to do. BUT they still can enjoy their smoke, albeit many doing it in illegal beergardens. In my local there are 2 sections and all older people are in one and smoke inside- it is a small little room that exits to the street.

Well you have to take into account that the government will want their cut and will screw over the consumer. Then criminals aren't going to give up just like that, it just means that now they have less to worry about.

Of course they will tax it well. Just like tobacco and alcohol. And of course some will still buy tobacoo, poitin, counterfeit vodka from gangs. At least people have the option to buy from shops and not be concerned with lining criminals pockets AND not be concerned with getting substances other than what they really wanted.
In amsterdam grass is sold on the streets, but nobody I know ever got it there, why would you when you can be a bit more sure what you are getting in a coffeeshop.

Hellm0

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

Getting high off of weed and blowing pyschedilic smoke ships from his pipe like in The Fellowship of the Ring, methinks.;)

And you KNOW he smokes nuthin but the finest!

SpAcEd OuT

Outer Bongolia wrote: »

http://www.gargaro.com/drugs.html

Argument 4: "Legalizing Drugs Will Reduce Crime.."

Crime will also not be reduced by drug legalization. Studies show a correlation between drug use and crime - violent crimes such as homicides, assaults and domestic violence. Why is this? It's quite simple - drugs cause violent behavior.

Has anyone considered that the reason that people committed a crime was because they were ON drugs in the first place - legal or not? That they weren't necessarily committing a crime to get illegal drugs, but the drugs themselves caused a violent behavior (which would not magically go away if the drugs were legal) which lead them to committing a crime - something that would not have happened if they had not TAKEN drugs? In actuality, crime will rise when drugs are legal because more people will be taking drugs. Crime is high in high-drug use areas not because people are committing a crime to get drugs, but the influence of the drugs made them more inclined to commit a crime. For instance:

A report in the Journal of the American Medical Association (7/6/94) reports that cocaine use is linked to high rates of homicide in New York City and that "homicide victims may have provoked violence through irritability, paranoid thinking or verbal and physical aggression which are known to be pharmacologic effects of cocaine."

Data from the National Institute of Justice (U.S. Department of Justice) Drug Use Forecasting (DUF) program underscore the crime-drugs link. Of a sample of males arrested in 23 U.S. cities in 1993, the percent testing positive for at least one drug in the DUF survey ranged from 54% in Omaha to 81% in Chicago. Among female arrestees, the percent testing positive for any drug in 20 cities ranged from 42% in San Antonio to 83% in Manhattan.

The violent behavior caused by drugs won't magically stop because the drugs are legal. Legal PCP isn't going to make a person less violent than illegally purchased PCP. So, crimes committed because of drugs will increase as the number of drug users increase with the legalization of drugs. The psychopathic behavior that drugs cause will not somehow magically stop because drugs are legal.

Legalization proponents ignore the fact that the people committing violent crimes are career criminals who will not stop their illegal activities once drugs are legalized; they will instead seek new sources of illicit revenue.

I am not denying that some of the present crime is due to the profit motive behind illegal drugs. I admit that causes crime. However, if drugs were legal, not only would there be an increased crime rate due to the increased number of people who were taking drugs, but there would still be a "black market" and profit motive, which brings me to my next point..The Black Market.

Many argue that the element of profit would be eliminated. If drugs were legal, it is suggested that they would be sold at regulated government stores. Or according to economist Milton Friedman, at "ordinary retail outlets." Other legalizers say that drugs would be given out to the poor addicts who could not afford them.

William F. Buckley believes prices would be low enough to wipe out the black market. Buyers would, however, be heavily taxed to pay for drug education programs and rehabilitation centers.

Yet the tax would make it possible for criminals to undercut the official price and continue to rake in profits. So then what does the government do? Make prices so low that a second-grader with a few pennies can afford it and leave them no revenue for the proposed program? And think about this: drug related crimes are the highest where crack is the cheapest.

In addition to the official price being undercut, there are drugs that even most legalizers agree are too dangerous to make legal, such as crack and PCP. So guess what! Unless we legalize crack, PCP, and heroin, the black market will still exist for the more dangerous drugs. Now, let me stress this again - even if drugs are legalized, there will still be a black market for them. I stress this because people continue to write to me wailing "But legal drugs will get rid of the black market!" The black market argument is old, unfounded, and not logical. And even if legalization eliminated the black market, does this mean we legalize everything to avoid a black market? Let's legalize stealing - after all, then these poor robbers won't have to sneak around, and possible harm someone out of fright. See, we can cut down on deaths by legalizing robbery! Sound silly? Exactly.

According to the link posted in the previous page on statistics of the areas mentioned in Switzerland, Germany and Holland that is all a load of ****.

Oh and the point in bold are absolutely ridiculous and idiotic.

out of interest did you read the thread or did you just decide to copy and paste someone else's work

Outer Bongolia

SpAcEd OuT wrote: »

According to the link posted in the previous page on statistics of the areas mentioned in Switzerland, Germany and Holland that is all a load of ****.

Oh and the point in bold are absolutely ridiculous and idiotic.

out of interest did you read the thread or did you just decide to copy and paste someone else's work

Regardless of figures from Switzerland and Germany, I agree with the points he makes about different drugs and crime rates.
Actually, no I don't think it's a load of bullsh-t, which is why I posted it, because I agree with a lot of it. And I posted it as it agreed with the last two posts made by humanji and Mordeth.

As for the copying someone's work, there's no problem in quoting something you agree with. You'd swear I passed it off as my own. Get over yourself.

Wertz

meditraitor wrote: »

...we all know just legalising so called harmless drugs(cannabis) does not have the effect of reducing drug related crime.
Amsterdam is proof of that,

What exactly is the drug related crime relating to cannabis?
...and what is Amsterdam proof of in that regard?

People don't steal or mug other people to fund their cannabis habit either here or in Holland.

Ninja_scrotum

Cannabis makes you think. And laugh. One of the most famous astronomers of our time smoked and enjoyed cannabis regularly. Carl Sagan anyone?

Unfortunately the cannabis available in Ireland is usually 90% car tires and tesco shopping bags, so it is really terrible for you. Fcuks your head and health up.

There are ways of cutting out the middle man i.e. scum. So if I cut out the middleman/scum, what would the bishop think then?

Tar.Aldarion

Hellm0 wrote: »

Wheres Gandalf when you need him eh?

He might be a high mage, but he is certainly no archmage. Gandalf the grey indeed...

Terry

humanji wrote: »

Can we not just link to the (many hundreds of) old threads that rehash these arguments over and over? It'd save a whole load of time and we can get back to the important topics such as Magick's morning Terminator shower routine, or whether toilet seats should be up or down.

Angry stoners in legalise drugs aruguement shocker.
More at 11.

Where are the junkies going to get the money to pay for their legal drugs?

How many more people are going to take drugs when the stigma of illegality is removed?

And who will answer the question posed by Meditraitor?

Rob_l

Terry wrote: »

Angry stoners in legalise drugs aruguement shocker.
More at 11.

Where are the junkies going to get the money to pay for their legal drugs?

How many more people are going to take drugs when the stigma of illegality is removed?

And who will answer the question posed by Meditraitor?

In relation to this point
"In sum, there is little evidence that decriminalization of marijuana use necessarily leads to a substantial increase in marijuana use."
National Academy of Sciences, Institute of Medicine (IOM). 1999.

and is from this source
http://www.nap.edu/readingroom/books/marimed/

Rob_l

meditraitor wrote: »

Can you say for sure that legalizing drug Sale/Use would make society a better place?

And by drug use I mean all drugs because as we all know just legalising so called harmless drugs(cannabis) does not have the effect of reducing drug related crime.
Amsterdam is proof of that,

Mark

DeJa-vu

Making the drugs legal or illegal does not reduce drug related crime either way the addict will still need his money, but if this is a reason from criminilising something surely the same bar could be used to criminalise many other facets of modern life.


In that people will rob and commit crimes for money for either drugs or any other wanted goods bought with the proceeds of crime.

stewie01

Where are the junkies going to get the money to pay for their legal drugs?
probably where they get the money for there illegal drugs ie work. not all ''junkies'' are homeless scum, im sure if you work in an office theres alot of ''junkies'' there.

How many more people are going to take drugs when the stigma of illegality is removed?
lots, in fact statisticly every1 you know. and then they'll die.

educate every1 over the next five years in schools them legalise it. make sure every1 and any1 knows wat there doing and the risks and then let them get on with it.

i never touched a drug til i was 19 after a little education and a trip the the dam i know what i like and dont and wat i will try and wat il never go near(coke ,heroin)

SpAcEd OuT

not getting involved in this debate but legalising it will control the prices so cocaine will cost as little as a packet of ciggarettes [Do you know how ridiculous amount a mark up dealers make even with govt. taxes cocaine would come NOWHERE NEAR the price dealers can charge]

Now I have never heard of a jobless person robbing to support their ciggarette habit

Terry

stewie01 wrote: »

Where are the junkies going to get the money to pay for their legal drugs?
probably where they get the money for there illegal drugs ie work. not all ''junkies'' are homeless scum, im sure if you work in an office theres alot of ''junkies'' there.

How many more people are going to take drugs when the stigma of illegality is removed?
lots, in fact statisticly every1 you know. and then they'll die.

educate every1 over the next five years in schools them legalise it. make sure every1 and any1 knows wat there doing and the risks and then let them get on with it.

i never touched a drug til i was 19 after a little education and a trip the the dam i know what i like and dont and wat i will try and wat il never go near(coke ,heroin)

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Please don't use text speak.

Ciaran500

stewie01 wrote: »

in fact statisticly every1 you know. and then they'll die.

lol!