Archbishop unleashes attack on recreational drug use... that means YOU, scumbag!!!

Dave!

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhmhojkfmhoj/rss2/

Archbishop unleashes rage at recreational drug users
04/11/2007 - 19:59:53

Archbishop Diarmuid Martin today unleashed a scathing attack on recreational drug users, accusing of them of being inherently connected to gangland violence.

The most senior Catholic churchman in the country insisted anyone taking illegal substances could not sanitise their role in spiralling gun crime and murder that has gripped the state.

“Violence and the drug trade belong intrinsically together,” he told an active citizenship service, led by his Church of Ireland counterpart Dr John Neill, in Dublin’s Christ Church Cathedral.

In what will be viewed as a thinly-veiled reference to the growing culture of cocaine use by Irish middle-classes, Dr Martin was adamant there could be no moral ambiguity about involvement with the drugs trade. “Illicit drug consumption cannot be sanitised out of that equation,” he said.

“I find it particularly difficult to understand how in a society which rightly abhors any expression of double-standards in public life, there are those who attempt to make germ-free the bond between the sordid network of drug trafficking and violence and the socially accepted use of certain drugs as ’recreational’.”

He added: “Double standard about the drug trade can never be made politically correct. It is certainly not socially correct. It is not correct for society.”

Dr Martin said society as a whole needed to take a stand against the gangland and drug culture.

“That is what citizenship is about. There is no room to be complacent in the face of wanton disregard for human life,” he told the congregation.

“Too many lives have been lost. Violence is a blind alley that in the long term achieves only grief. Vengeance only rebounds on those who practice it.

“The drug trade is in its own right violence, a trafficking in death and the ruination of lives, many of them young and vulnerable.”

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That's right, another one lines up to take a shot at drug users! He was probably sipping on a Guinness as he made those remarks.

“Double standard about the drug trade can never be made politically correct. It is certainly not socially correct. It is not correct for society.”

What a gem.

longshanks

i'm eating peanuts

Trojan911

wrote:

“I find it particularly difficult to understand how in a society which rightly abhors any expression of double-standards in public life, there are those who attempt to make germ-free the bond between the sordid network of drug trafficking and violence and the socially accepted use of certain drugs as ’recreational’.

And there are those who practice paedophilia and those who cover up for their colleagues.... Double standards.... Hmmmmmm

Outer Bongolia

We all need to take up arms and rid Ireland of the bishops

RoyalMarine

and instead of spending our money on drugs, lets go to church on sunday's and make over large donations!

robinph

He is of course correct in what he says, he just forgot the bit about legaliseing the drugs to remove the criminals from the situation. Only problem then is that we would all be too out of it to be bothered turning up to watch him on a sunday morning.

alleepally

Regardless of what ones opinion is of the church or of the person making the statement, it's a 100% valid point and has been made by many others before.

Lads.He is correct in what he is saying!

Driver 8

Let's not miss an opportunity to lay into the church though?

He makes some valid points. Yes, the medium may dilute the message in your eyes, but still.

TPD

Legalise. Cannabis dealing is a gateway into dealing stronger things. Legalise cannabis and them pesky kids wont start dealing it.

PS God sucks

JC 2K3

It's mainly the fault of the law tbh. People use drugs and will continue to do so regardless of their legal status, anti-drug campaigners should get over it. As long as they're illegal, gangsterism will prevail, and due to the highly illogical nature of our drug laws, I place very little blame on drug users.

Steyr

He is right though, and i dont go to Church unless its a Wedding, Funeral etc.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

he's shooting himself in the foot though, people are way more open to bull****r when they are out of their mind on drugs... attendance on sunday would sky rocket if they had a smoking/shooting up area.

projectmayhem

Mordeth wrote: »

he's shooting himself in the foot though, people are way more open to bull****r when they are out of their mind on drugs... attendance on sunday would sky rocket if they had a smoking/shooting up area.

hey if holy bread was xtc i'd be there in a shot, as long as organ music was replaced by 2manydj's or something

Kernel

Yep, I also say he is 100% correct. Go on the Catholics!

boss^is^dead

robinph wrote: »

He is of course correct in what he says, he just forgot the bit about legaliseing the drugs to remove the criminals from the situation. Only problem then is that we would all be too out of it to be bothered turning up to watch him on a sunday morning.

haha true true! Legalizing certain drugs would hit them really hard.But heroin would need to stay outside of that little deal methinks!

_blank_

He's right.

And I was pilloried from pillar to post and had a mod destroy a thread with idiotic YouTube videos when I was saying it on here a few weeks ago.

Jesus Wept

Bishops are bad mmmkay.

Terry

JC 2K3 wrote: »

It's mainly the fault of the law tbh. People use drugs and will continue to do so regardless of their legal status, anti-drug campaigners should get over it. As long as they're illegal, gangsterism will prevail, and due to the highly illogical nature of our drug laws, I place very little blame on drug users.

Are you for real?

You put little blame on the drug users?
They're the ones using the drugs. How the fúck are they not to blame?

Also, DaveMcG, I see what you did there with the title.
Play on the bad name the church has in order to garner support for your side of the arguement.

togster

Archbishop or mot he is right.

rubadub

DaveMcG wrote: »

“Double standard about the drug trade

So he is allowed use a recreational drug as a "sacrament" in his ceremonies while anybody else wishing to use other drugs for spiritual purposes is thrown in jail.


Oh, I forgot, anybody who uses illegal drugs always takes them to excess, ruins their lives & ruins society.

You put little blame on the drug users?
They're the ones using the drugs. How the fúck are they not to blame?

Yes, they are as much to blame as drinkers were during prohibition lawlessness.

lisbon_lions

The Cleric is correct. Like it or no, recreational drug use paints the blood red skies over gangland.

And you thought you were doing no harm having yer pinch of charles whilst on leave from your sporting pals in Doneybrook loike !

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

if the government want's to stopthe criminal gangs having a monopoly on drugs they should just decriminalise it. Two birds, one lovely stone.

BlitzKrieg

The Cleric is correct. Like it or no, recreational drug use paints the blood red skies over gangland.

completely off topic but...what?

connundrum

While what he says makes sense, will it have any affect at all?

Are recreational drug users going to say 'Hey, the guy in the big hat reckons I've contibuted to many deaths. I should stop dabbling and take up GAA again... or go to mass'?

I don't think so.

Well meaning, but falling on partially deaf/partially cynical ears.

c0rk3r

Forget about cannabis its a playground drug aimed at 15-20 year old students. The real source of wealth and power comes from cocaine. Every corner of society dabbles in this drug at the weekend. everyone is bloody at it.

Of course what the bishop said is true but it a bit rich coming from a member of the church. No one will listens. Politicians are always harping on about the links between drug users at ground level and those at the top. No one listens. Gardai are continuely providing evidence that gangs get there power from / wealth cocaine sales. No one listens. Grieving mothers, family members stories are flashed all over the papers when innocent people are killied from members of these gangs. No one listens.

What will it take? What needs to happen? Who will people listen to?

Legalise cocaine, ketamine, extacy, heroin ? I dont know. If it did happen it wont be long before some idiot mixes every drug together and dies. It'll be easy to make it ilegal again.

Dave!

Terry wrote: »

Also, DaveMcG, I see what you did there with the title.
Play on the bad name the church has in order to garner support for your side of the arguement.

Damn, you got me!

ORRR, I paraphrased the header used in the article, which iiiiiisssssssss.....

Archbishop unleashes rage at recreational drug users

Are they trying to garner support for my side of the argument too?

The article is about the Archbishop condemning recreational drug use, why would I not use his position (and/or name) in the title of the thread?

I think you need to stay out of the conspiracy theory forum. It'll f*ck with your head.

c0rk3r wrote: »

Legalise cocaine, ketamine, extacy, heroin ? I dont know. If it did happen it wont be long before some idiot mixes every drug together and dies. It'll be easy to make it ilegal again.

They already do that mate... Speedball. Makes no difference that it's illegal.

delta_bravo

Diarmuid Martin is completely right. I think he should get some praise for his public stance on issues. He isnt afraid to speak out against drug use and gangland killings

Terry

rubadub wrote: »

So he is allowed use a recreational drug as a "sacrament" in his ceremonies while anybody else wishing to use other drugs for spiritual purposes is thrown in jail.


Oh, I forgot, anybody who uses illegal drugs always takes them to excess, ruins their lives & ruins society.


Yes, they are as much to blame as drinkers were during prohibition lawlessness.

Ooh. Didn't see that one coming.

Watch out tea and coffee drinkers. You're next.

DaveMcG wrote:

ORRR, I paraphrased the header used in the article, which iiiiiisssssssss.....

Archbishop unleashes rage at recreational drug users

Nah.
You did whatever it was I said.

DaveMcG wrote:

I think you need to stay out of the conspiracy theory forum. It'll f*ck with your head.

Haven't set foot in it in years.

is_that_so

connundrum wrote: »

While what he says makes sense, will it have any affect at all?

Are recreational drug users going to say 'Hey, the guy in the big hat reckons I've contibuted to many deaths. I should stop dabbling and take up GAA again... or go to mass'?

I don't think so.

Well meaning, but falling on partially deaf/partially cynical ears.

Agreed , although a few well-heeled recreational users banged up in the Joy for a weekend or two might change their perspective.

Dave!

Terry wrote: »

Ooh. Didn't see that one coming.

Watch out tea and coffee drinkers. You're next.

Is it not a valid point?

Here's an exercise... finish the paragraph:

Alcohol is a drug used recreationally. Marijuana is a drug used recreationally. Both are bad for you. Alcohol is directly responsible for more deaths. Marijuana is illegal because __________________________________ .

Terry wrote: »

Nah.
You did whatever it was I said.


Haven't set foot in it in years.

Excellent.

is_that_so

DaveMcG wrote: »

Is it not a valid point?

Here's an exercise... finish the paragraph:

Alcohol is a drug used recreationally. Marijuana is a drug used recreationally. Both are bad for you. Alcohol is directly responsible for more deaths. Marijuana is illegal because __________________________________ .

The Sindo says so.

lisbon_lions

DaveMcG wrote: »

Is it not a valid point?

Here's an exercise... finish the paragraph:

Alcohol is a drug used recreationally. Marijuana is a drug used recreationally. Both are bad for you. Alcohol is directly responsible for more deaths. Marijuana is illegal because __________________________________ .

Prolonged use frys your brain. If youve ever found yourself standing in a room wondering what it was you came in to the room to look for in the first place- youre there. Oh thats right, it was the bong (but was it really this room?)

Terry

DaveMcG wrote: »

Is it not a valid point?

Here's an exercise... finish the paragraph:

Alcohol is a drug used recreationally. Marijuana is a drug used recreationally. Both are bad for you. Alcohol is directly responsible for more deaths. Marijuana is illegal because I'm a stoner and couldn't be bothered finishing it myself.

That ok?

Dave!

is_that_so wrote: »

The Sindo says so.

Drugs are more damaging to young people than adults, shock-horror! Wouldn't surprise me in the least, but regardless, this crowd say the exact opposite.

Either way, "because it's bad for us" is not the reason for it being illegal, or else alcohol and cigarettes would definitely be illegal.

Terry wrote: »

That ok?

Terry, debater extraordinaire.

Terry

DaveMcG wrote: »

Drugs are more damaging to young people than adults, shock-horror! Wouldn't surprise me in the least, but regardless, this crowd say the exact opposite.

Either way, "because it's bad for us" is not the reason for it being illegal, or else alcohol and cigarettes would definitely be illegal.



Terry, debater extraordinaire.

I am a master.

Let's get back to the topic at hand though.

Do you believe what the bishop said is true?

Dave!

Terry wrote: »

I am a master.

Let's get back to the topic at hand though.

Do you believe what the bishop said is true?

Of course I do. If something is illegal, then the only place to get it is from dodgey characters who get their drugs from more big-time criminals who often end up shooting each other. Al Capone made millions from alcohol during prohibition in the USA, and John Gilligan made millions from cannabis in recent times.

rubadub

Terry wrote: »

Ooh. Didn't see that one coming.

Watch out tea and coffee drinkers. You're next.

If tea & coffee were made illegal then some users would still go on to buy it from dealers, thereby funding killings in the exact same manner. Thats the point I and others are getting at.

Many people buy tobacco from dealers on the street, these people know they might be funding gangs too, at least other users have a choice and can go into a shop and buy their harmful drug of choice over a counter, where it has at least gone under some quality control, and the majority of the cost is being paid back to the government rather than some criminal. Same goes for copied DVDs etc.

You put little blame on the drug users?
They're the ones using the drugs. How the fúck are they not to blame?

I totally agree with you. Trading in illegal goods funds criminals, not really headline news.

Tar.Aldarion

I'd listen to his view if he was an archmage.

Wertz

Kiddie fiddling protectionist society in moral outrage against anything else that can paint them in a positive light-shocker.
This is the exact same tired argument that Mc Aleese made a few months back....it wasn't a groundbreaking theory then and it still isn't.
When are the church going to realise that no-one really cares what they have to say? Just keep marrying/christening/burying us, but stay out of our lives otherwise...

meditraitor

rubadub wrote: »

If tea & coffee were made illegal then some users would still go on to buy it from dealers, thereby funding killings in the exact same manner. Thats the point I and others are getting at.

Many people buy tobacco from dealers on the street, these people know they might be funding gangs too, at least other users have a choice and can go into a shop and buy their harmful drug of choice over a counter, where it has at least gone under some quality control, and the majority of the cost is being paid back to the government rather than some criminal. Same goes for copied DVDs etc.




I totally agree with you. Trading in illegal goods funds criminals, not really headline news.

Can you say for sure that legalizing drug Sale/Use would make society a better place?

And by drug use I mean all drugs because as we all know just legalising so called harmless drugs(cannabis) does not have the effect of reducing drug related crime.
Amsterdam is proof of that,

Mark

DeJa-vu

Earthhorse

c0rk3r wrote: »

What will it take? What needs to happen? Who will people listen to?

Dave McG should start a thread on After Hours about it. Everybody will listen to him.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Can you say for sure that legalizing drug Sale/Use would make society a better place?

has banning them done anything for society other than fund criminal gangs? people want their drugs, and they're not entirely pushed about where itcomes from so long as they don't have to watch someone being shot or beaten up while they're purchasing.

How many people do you know that wear clothes made in sweatshops? Coffee that isn't 'fair trade', etc.
Life sucks, we suck, it all sucks. Just smoke a joint.

Dave!

Earthhorse wrote: »

Dave McG should start a thread on After Hours about it. Everybody will listen to him.

Way ahead of you Earthhorse!

Earthhorse

DaveMcG wrote: »

Way ahead of you Earthhorse!

Whoa! So stoned I didn't even notice.

Mordeth wrote: »

has banning them done anything for society other than fund criminal gangs?

It's prevented people who otherwise would try them from doing so and limited the supply for those who do.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

rofl

you clearly don't take drugs

limited supply

hahahahahahahaha

Dragan

Mordeth wrote: »

Life sucks, we suck, it all sucks. Just smoke a joint.

Bingo.

meditraitor

Mordeth wrote: »

has banning them done anything for society other than fund criminal gangs? people want their drugs, and they're not entirely pushed about where itcomes from so long as they don't have to watch someone being shot or beaten up while they're purchasing.

How many people do you know that wear clothes made in sweatshops? Coffee that isn't 'fair trade', etc.
Life sucks, we suck, it all sucks. Just smoke a joint.

Thats a valid point but you still didnt answer my question!

Can you say for sure that legalizing drug Sale/Use would make society a better place?

If so, can you explain it in detail so I might be swayed from my opinion that it will not......

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Nope, it won't make society a better place. Drugs can't do that, people do that. It would probably reduce crime, and reduce the level of cashflow towards the criminals. It would also free up the legal system, who wouldn't be wasting hours and thousands of euro on johnny who was caught with two e's, and a quarter of hash.. or heaven forbid "herbal cannabis".

Also, just as a side issue.. and probably not very likely to happen, there is the tiny chance that cannabis may help ireland get off alcohol. I think if you've gotta pick a drug for a country to over indulge in, cannabis has def. gotta be the way to go. I'd love to see the streets of Ireland on a saturday night of smoking, with light drinking... one giant love fest.
Except for the one or two idiots freaking out, but the rest of uis would be so stoned we'd just laugh.

Earthhorse

Mordeth wrote: »

you clearly don't take drugs

limited supply

I don't, but know plenty of people that do. Do you honestly think that if we were to reintroduce prohibition you'd have the same supply of alcohol in place? Of course you'd still be able to get your hands on it but not in the same amounts or with the same degree of ease.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

but it would still be around, and very easy to get. Moving from 'really really ****ing easy' to 'very easy' isn't really worth the hassle of prohibition. It just does not work as a strategy.