Spat Over Pobalscoil Corca Duibhne

Terry

knightmare wrote: »

Grand Job so, any tips for the Oral?

No, but I do have a tip for this forum.
Stop trolling or I'll ban you.

Pete4779

I think if you move to a dedicated Irish-speaking area, then you have to be prepared for things like this i.e., you might not have the same expectation of facilities in other areas.

I cannot demand in Dame Street that the bloke from India in the Spar speaks to me in Irish, and likewise, if he moved to a Dingle-area Gaeltacht, he shouldn't expect that everything fit to suit an English-only speaker (this is just an example).

There is a German school in Dublin called St. Killians. So, if you want to attend a German school, you have to go there. Likewise, I am sure there are English schools in Germany, probably in big cities, but if you found one in the arse end of Badem-Wuerttemberg and then it shut down with only a German-speakingschool left, well, you ****ing decided to move to the arse end of the country and are now free to move somewhere where you can get what services you want.

IS the state obliged to provide proper services? - Yes!
Is the state obliged to provide them all within walking distance of your home? NO!

What's next, no university on the Aran Islands?

No Polish-speaking school in Lahinch - because you like to surf but your child doesn't speak English?

There's no airport within 20 km of me - I demand I be given one - OR, I can simply decide that this is a choice I made and when I need services, I have to travel for some of them to other areas in the country.

seamus

You're still missing the point here. They're not demanding services that didn't exist. They're asking for previously existing services to be temporarily re-instated, after the service was removed despite the service being used and in demand. This isn't a case of people moving into the area and demanding the area change to suit them.

kelle

mike65 wrote: »

As for the money, I get the impression that there are grants for all sorts of things if you just happen to live/work in a Gaeltacht area.

Mike.

Yes, you can get grants but an inspector calls round to interview you through Irish and ensures Irish is the main language spoken in the house.

Sponge Bob

You now get a double grant for speaking Polish at home as well as Irish , it would be discrimatory not to pay out on the double for double the effort

mise_me_fein

I understand what some people are saying here but the end justifies the means here for me.

I applaud anyone for having the guts to make these tough decisions that will benefit us in the long term.

konawi

last I heard the 5th and 6th years were allowed to do their subjects in either English or Irish.

The school also put on extra irish courses for kids before the school term began and for god's sake - this school has been in the plans for years and has been a long time being built.

but it's just ridiculous that people don't have the choice to do it in English or Irish.
If people start being afraid to move to the gaeltacht cos theyt hink they have to do everything through Irish it'd be a disaster. Loads of English people run B&Bs, there are the chinese and indian restaurants and how many Irish people are happy to be the ones to do all the business/shop cleaning last thing at night? lets face it, all these jobs are going to the foreign nationals.

and anyway, it's mainly the local parents from the area that are complaining not hte foreign nationals. I feel sorry for those russians who have been targeted cos it's not like they made a big fuss about having to go to Tralee - it's the newspapers that targeted them and now foreign nationals are being made a scapegoat for the fuss behind a lot of this. do we not remember all the excitement with dingle/daingean??? don't remember any russians etc being too bothered with all that!

layke

cance wrote: »

theres a huge difference between mandarin and irish, so theres no comparison.

this country is just too fúcking liberal these days, who gave teenagers voices? and who started listening?

I WISH! I don't speak a word of Irish, the government tried to force it on me for years but I stood my ground. Years later I have absolutely no regrets about my decision. If only I could have spent my time doing some other subject I enjoyed rather then getting that crap rammed down my throat which I have absolutely no interest in.
There are some of us who see learning Irish as pointless, who are not interested in our heritage and lack a nationalist view on things.

I'm not sure how the population see it as a whole. I mean is Irish supported by the majority or the minority? I'm sure there's a load of people in the middle with the 'I don't really care tbh' which is fine I suppose.

Now, my point English is the common language we share. As long as we are advertising for foreigners to come into this country and work here we need to cater for them or they'll **** off home. End of.

mise_me_fein wrote: »

I understand what some people are saying here but the end justifies the means here for me.

I applaud anyone for having the guts to make these tough decisions that will benefit us in the long term.

Which benefits? Surely ****ing up someone's education is not going to benefit the country? If you mean Irish as the benefit, I fail to see any benefit in learning that other then for the hell of it.

Sam Vimes

micmclo wrote: »

How do you live in the Gaelteacht and attend a Gaelscoil and still manage to have a poor level of Irish?

by being foreign or by teachers not actually teaching through irish like they were supposed to

micmclo wrote: »

And how have the students a valid point? That's a bit like me attending a school in France and then striking as they won't teach me in English. Surely they know how a Gaelscoil operates.

its not really like that. some were supposed to be taught through irish through primary level and weren't, some were exempt from irish. now its the only school in the area. their educations will suffer needlessly

micmclo wrote: »

And what about the students who have fluent Irish and are enthuastic about the teanga? Does majority rule and some poor students lose out on Irish despite going to a Gaelscoil.

well we do live in a democracy. go to iraq if you want the minority to rule

cance wrote: »

theres a huge difference between mandarin and irish, so theres no comparison.

there is no difference whatsoever if you're being asked to go through school in a language that you don't speak

cance wrote: »

theres a huge difference between mandarin and irish,
this country is just too fúcking liberal these days, who gave teenagers voices? and who started listening?

please tell me you're joking, or do you want to join micmclo in iraq?

Sam Vimes

knightmare wrote: »

Irish Kids or not it is a gaelscoil, can you understand that much a ..gaelscoil. So either adapt or p*ss off. A handful with loud voices expecting the fundamental principles of a school to change just because they are inconvenienced.....Again pity about em.

for god's sake, there is no other school for them because it was closed. they are entitled to an education and government cutbacks should not deny them that right.

if they chose to move to france and then wanted to be taught in english i'd tell them to f*ck off but they have been forced into this situation by bertie and his pack of retards. what if the only school in your area was one of those all-polish schools? would you tell your kids to adapt or piss off?

Sam Vimes

layke wrote: »

Which benefits? Surely ****ing up someone's education is not going to benefit the country? If you mean Irish as the benefit, I fail to see any benefit in learning that other then for the hell of it.

the only benefit i have ever found for irish is that when you go abroad you can have conversations that no one around understands. the problem with that is usually my friends don't understand what i'm saying either

baztard

Commander Vimes wrote: »

for god's sake, there is no other school for them because it was closed. they are entitled to an education and government cutbacks should not deny them that right.

Your dead right, but I don't see why the present Gaelsciol should suffer. Can the department not say...

# Use the Gaelscoil building but
# Get in temporary teachers to teach through English for each subject for the new 5th and 6th years
# And force everybody in 1st - 4th year to be taught through Irish, whilst providing them with catch up classes

randylonghorn

Pete4779 wrote: »

I cannot demand in Dame Street that the bloke from India in the Spar speaks to me in Irish, and likewise, if he moved to a Dingle-area Gaeltacht, he shouldn't expect that everything fit to suit an English-only speaker

But no matter how the more extreme Irish language fanatics prefer to ignore the fact, the reality is that for most people in Dingle town and to the east of the town, English is their first language. Many would have better Irish than the average Irish person, but English is their first language. And I am talking about locals, not people who have moved there.

Choice has been available up to now ... it has been taken away for no good educational reason, but because of pressure politics.

knightmare wrote: »

Irish Kids or not it is a gaelscoil, can you understand that much a ..gaelscoil. So either adapt or p*ss off. A handful with loud voices expecting the fundamental principles of a school to change just because they are inconvenienced.....Again pity about em.

See my response to Pete above. Do you even know the area? I do ... very well.

And a "fundamental principle" in the Constitution of this country is to treat all the children of the state equally ... or don't you like those kind of principles?

Disadvantaging a large number of children in the area in order to push the Irish language agenda does not constitute equal treatment.

konawi wrote: »

but it's just ridiculous that people don't have the choice to do it in English or Irish.

and anyway, it's mainly the local parents from the area that are complaining not the foreign nationals.

Exactly ... for the reasons I mention above.

bunker

Radio Kerry News
The Chairman of Colaisti Chorca Dhuibhne Teo in Dingle is denying pressure is being put on women providing accommodation for students on Irish language summer courses to support the secondary school's Irish language policy. Colaistí Chorca Dhuibhne Teo, of Ballyferriter, which runs the courses, has written to about 50 mná tí asking them to sign a letter backing the Dingle school's all-Irish policy. A two day protest was held at the school last week by students want a bi lingual policy introduced. The signed letters are being sent to Education Minister Mary Hanafin and Gaeltacht Minister Eamon Ó Cuív.

Chairman Gearoid O Brosnachain says they were not asked to write the letter by the school. He denies they are applying pressure on the women to support their stance on the issue. Tom Geaney, of the Concerned Parents group claims some of the women, who are not in favour of the all-Irish policy say they have no option but to sign the letter because they fear students won't be sent to them again if they don't. About 2,600 students attend the summer language courses, which are reckoned to be worth about €2 million to the area, annually.

The principal of Pobalscoil just happens to be the manager/principal of this during the summer which is a nice nixer to his salary.

ThE_IVIAcIVIAIV

i know a few ex students from that school and they said the teachers always talked through irish but just gave out handouts in irish to the pupils who wanted to do subjects through irish which wasn't a big amount to be honest. there is alot of students there without irish parents, as one of the previous posters said there is alot of uk german etc families around. this school is brand new and previously there was 2 schools in the town, 1 for males 1 for females. not mixed like it is now. the girls school put more effort into doing things through irish but the current principal who was the principal of the boys school didn't have such effect on his pupils and teachers as irish wasn't spoken much outside of irish class.This same school was burnt down 3 years ago i think

Scoobydoobydoo

syklops wrote: »

So they neglect their english and concentrate on Irish, and end up passing. And then they go onto college, where they discover they do not know the english words for half their Math/Science classes, and then have to pull their socks even tighter?

This happened to me, in reverse. I had to move, in the middle of secondary school from a Gaelscoil to an English speaking school - and I really did struggle with maths and science etc. - all the terms I'd used till then were all as Gaeilge, then I hadn't a clue what they were talking about in English - BUT........
do you think I could have asked them to teach me in Irish or made allowances for me? NO, I think not. How could I? Why should they? Am I missing something because I don't get it. I did struggle also, for the very same reason, but I didn't ask the school to start teaching me in another language!!

randylonghorn

Scoobydoobydoo wrote: »

Am I missing something because I don't get it. I did struggle also, for the very same reason, but I didn't ask the school to start teaching me in another language!!

I think you are, if I'm reading your post correctly. You had to move from a Gaelscoil to an English-speaking school .. one person, presumably because your family moved or something like that? And I am presuming that your English was of a high proficiency, even if I accept fully that having to re-learn scientific terms etc. in English would have been a serious nuisance. Still, useful to have for the future ... like when going to college, or interacting with the vast majority of people in the workplace, here or abroad.

In this case, two schools which offered teaching through English as well as Irish closed, to be replaced by one school offering teaching only through Irish ... without agreement from an awful lot of the families concerned.

Seems slightly different to me, certainly?

jimmycrackcorm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

IThe teachers in those schools claimed a special allowance , currently €3000 a year, for the onerous task of teaching in a gaeltacht school through Irish.

It appears that as the Dept does not want to review what went on in primary and secondary schools in certain ' Gaeltachts ' for years....ie systemic teaching only through english ....they refuse to go there.

They do not want awkward questions about what was seen by their own 'inspectors' on the ground for example ....or for how long.

The Unions whose members knowingly made false pay claims , in some cases for decades, are not going there either.
.

But we all know that you can't sack a teacher so why bother.

Scoobydoobydoo

randylonghorn wrote: »

I think you are, if I'm reading your post correctly. You had to move from a Gaelscoil to an English-speaking school .. one person, presumably because your family moved or something like that? And I am presuming that your English was of a high proficiency, even if I accept fully that having to re-learn scientific terms etc. in English would have been a serious nuisance. Still, useful to have for the future ... like when going to college, or interacting with the vast majority of people in the workplace, here or abroad.

In this case, two schools which offered teaching through English as well as Irish closed, to be replaced by one school offering teaching only through Irish ... without agreement from an awful lot of the families concerned.

Seems slightly different to me, certainly?

Yes, I understand what you mean, and yes it was just me alone, but I understand how hard it is because even though obviously I have always spoken English, I learned absolutely everything till that point in Irish, so it actually pretty much was like learning in a foreign language! I know that's hard to believe maybe but it was a huge obstacle for me...

So I understand how difficult it must be for these students, and if my child were in this situation, yes I'd feel rightly stuck, it's just awful. The department have a lot to answer for to leave these poor kids in this desperate situation.
However, I just don't feel it's fair to expect a Gaelscoil to teach a certain amount of students through English. A Gaelscoil should be allowed to be just that, but maybe the department should have prioritised an English school in this particular area.
I just don't think it's the school's fault or problem to solve.

randylonghorn

Scoobydoobydoo wrote: »

Yes, I understand what you mean, and yes it was just me alone, but I understand how hard it is because even though obviously I have always spoken English, I learned absolutely everything till that point in Irish, so it actually pretty much was like learning in a foreign language! I know that's hard to believe maybe but it was a huge obstacle for me....

No, it's not at all hard to believe, tbh.

Scoobydoobydoo wrote: »

So I understand how difficult it must be for these students, and if my child were in this situation, yes I'd feel rightly stuck, it's just awful. The department have a lot to answer for to leave these poor kids in this desperate situation.
However, I just don't feel it's fair to expect a Gaelscoil to teach a certain amount of students through English. A Gaelscoil should be allowed to be just that, but maybe the department should have prioritised an English school in this particular area.
I just don't think it's the school's fault or problem to solve.

The problem is that it's not that simple ... there would be a strong vocal minority with a lot of clout, including local councillors, the local PP (who is a retired Professor of Irish) and, I suspect, the principal of the school, if he's the guy I'm thinking of, who have railroaded this through without proper consultation, and to an extent have sold the Department a dummy, with assurances that everyone was behind this, etc. They pushed for the Community School to be all-Irish, against the wishes of many in the area. A Gaelscoil which is set up to be a Gaelscoil is one thing; a Community School / Pobalscoil which is hijacked and made into a Gaelscoil against the wishes of many in the area ... an area where there is now no choice ... is something else again.

And many of these people grew up with my mother, and were her friends, though she would disagree with many of them on this issue. Despite loving Irish, her own first language, and teaching it all her life, she always maintained, as I would, that forcing it down peoples throats does far more harm than good.

And unfortunately that is what is happening yet again in this instance.

Stilla Mellis

I think this is all a storm in a tea-cup. Children in "an ordinary primary school" or "an English-medium secondary school" learn Irish. They learn it as a subject. Those teachers in schools throughout Ireland who teach Irish well and succeed in imparting a knowledge and appreciation of the language to their pupils often use Irish outside the Irish class. It is no big deal. Children who hear the language learn it.

The community on the Dingle Peninsula aka Corca Dhuibhne have had a long relationship with the two languages. Those speaking Irish have been on the back-foot for centuries. "English" has dominated the Irish-speaking communities and families forcing them to keep their Irish to themselves and speak English in shops, markets, courts, churches, and all public administration offices. By "English" I mean "people who speak English only and refuse to learn the language of the "other people" -- the Irish? This problem did not originate in the foundation of Pobalscoil Chorca Dhuibhne. It is part of history. It happened everywhere in Ireland. In Clare, Sligo, Cavan, Tipperary, Louth, and all those counties where Irish was spoken as a community language within living memory. "English" is merciless when it encounters another autochthonous language.

In Ireland as a whole especially in the 26 counties the historic progress of English as a world language suffered a setback. The Irish rebelled and introduced their own language, An Ghaeilge, into education. Good for them, I say.

As for the "storm in a teacup" idea. The difference between a good English-medium school in Ireland where all subjects including Irish are taught well and a Gaelscoil is probably miniscule. The Gaelscoil will seek to educate the children in their care bilingually. They will teach English as a subject. Just as a good English-medium school will use Irish outside the classroom and ensure their pupils learn it well the Gaelscoil will use English as necessary to ensure their pupils follow the particular topic and the children will aquire the two languages imperceptibly. Within a very short period of time students in a total-immersion situation aquire an adequate command of the second language and soon find no difficulty with dealing with two languages.

What a pity the people of this area were so misled and misguided as to follow those who did not really understand the nature of a Gaelscoil. All education is about providing the best care and assistance to all students in developing their powers and aquiring whatever cultural baggage society expects of them (manners, morality, history of their own community, the languages in their own community.

What a pity such a fuss was raised when the middle way was always available.

As I said above however "English" in its progress to world dominance is merciless and I hope the people of An Daingean / Dingle / Daingean Uí Chúis find a win-win solution which will allow the wounds inflicted to heal.
Does anyone have the list of families opposed to the Irish-language policy published a week or two ago by FOINSE?

dr.bollocko

2 years ago called asking for its thread back.

javaboy

dr.bollocko wrote: »

2 years ago called asking for its thread back.

Warn it about the recession will ya? Tell it the exact score of the Wimbledon 2007 finals so it will know you're really from the future.

dr.bollocko

Lets tell them to buy stocks in Bear Stearns. People from the past are a-holes.

javaboy

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Lets tell them to buy stocks in Bear Stearns. People from the past are a-holes.

Tell them to stick it all in Fannie Mae.