Spat Over Pobalscoil Corca Duibhne

Sponge Bob

I had heard from a journalist who is au fait with this story that the case was far from resolved .

It erupted with a vengeance today

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1015/andaingean.html

100 students boycott An Daingean school

Monday, 15 October 2007 17:47 Over 100 students from the new secondary school in An Daingean, Co Kerry, refused to go into their classrooms today.
The students remained outside Pobalscoil Chorca Dhuibhne throughout the day in protest at the school's all-Irish policy.
The students claim that their education is suffering because some of them are not fully competent in the Irish language.
The principal of the school, Padraig Firtéar, said today that he was very disappointed with the students' action and that only a few had approached him on the issue in advance.
The controversial policy has been the subject of several heated public meetings in the town.
Attempts are being made to resolve the matter, but meanwhile the students say that they will continue their protest tomorrow.

The students are quite correct in their stance . The problem is the bit that has been left out of that sentence

"some of them are not fully competent in the Irish language...SB insert..despite having attended Gaeltacht schools all their lives

But according to the Dept of Education they did attend Gaeltacht schools all their lives and the Department can prove that .

The teachers in those schools claimed a special allowance , currently €3000 a year, for the onerous task of teaching in a gaeltacht school through Irish.

It appears that as the Dept does not want to review what went on in primary and secondary schools in certain ' Gaeltachts ' for years....ie systemic teaching only through english ....they refuse to go there.

They do not want awkward questions about what was seen by their own 'inspectors' on the ground for example ....or for how long.

The Unions whose members knowingly made false pay claims , in some cases for decades, are not going there either.

The parents have apparently been advised to get the Government Auditor on the case and to audit these schools to find out whether the state money was disbursed on false pretences ...and most importantly to PROVE that their children were always taught through English and are therefore entitled to continue to do so.

They are currently preparing a collective appeal to the Comptroller and Auditor General to do just this

That will be fun

The role of the Office is to

• audit and report on the accounts of public bodies
• establish that transactions of public bodies are in accordance with the legal authoritiesgoverning them and that funds are applied for the purposes intended
• provide assurance on the system of internal financial control put in place by each body
• examine whether each body administers its resources economically and efficiently and has mechanisms in place to evaluate the effectiveness of operations
• authorise the release of funds from the Exchequer for purposes permitted by law

Its a supreme irony that a bunch of accountants in Dublin are the only ones who can and will prove that the parents and the striking children are correct. The department is sticking to its guns, for now.

mike65

Surprised this is'nt in After Hours! It would be a busy thread I suspect.

I was listening to the articulate pupils on the radio this morning and could'nt find any flaw in thier position. How can one learn fully if not able to speaka da lingo in the first place?

The point raised about failure to teach through Irish looks like a barrel of worms alright, in a sense its should'nt surprise, after all how many citizens are genuinely au fait with the langauge, if the teaching through Irish was true and successful then numbers would be higher than I suspect they are.

As for the money, I get the impression that there are grants for all sorts of things if you just happen to live/work in a Gaeltacht area.

Mike.

Trotter

Hmmmm! My memories of the Gaeltacht are of the locals often speaking English in the shops until they saw a visitor from one of the Gaelscoils arriving and they'd switch to Irish


Moved to AH!

FlutterinBantam

Lets see now lets, see now.

I always like the challenge of breaking down a seemingly complex problem into a sentence or two.
lets see how i get on with this one.

Ok school in the gaeltacht and pupils want to be taught through English even though this could fcuk up all the attached grants the taxpayers have been showering on the area for yonks,and also screw the geezers who have been milking the system and paying lip service to the "teanga" but trousering all the benefits attached to its use"

How far off the mark am I on that one Sir???

mikemac

How do you live in the Gaelteacht and attend a Gaelscoil and still manage to have a poor level of Irish?

And how have the students a valid point? That's a bit like me attending a school in France and then striking as they won't teach me in English. Surely they know how a Gaelscoil operates.

And what about the students who have fluent Irish and are enthuastic about the teanga? Does majority rule and some poor students lose out on Irish despite going to a Gaelscoil.

Ok so, let them have their way.
Strip the school off it's Gaelscoil status and stop paying the teachers extra grants.

seamus

micmclo wrote: »

How do you live in the Gaelteacht and attend a Gaelscoil and still manage to have a poor level of Irish?

And how have the students a valid point? That's a bit like me attending a school in France and then striking as they won't teach me in English. Surely they know how a Gaelscoil operates.

And what about the students who have fluent Irish and are enthuastic about the teanga? Does majority rule and some poor students lose out on Irish despite going to a Gaelscoil.

Ok so, let them have their way.
Strip the school off it's Gaelscoil status and stop paying the teachers extra grants.

One problem here is that an English-speaking school was shut down and the only other option was this Gael scoil. An English woman was on Newstalk last week saying that her Irish-exempt daughter was in the English school since they moved here. Then they closed it and she has to attend a Gael scoil despite having little if no Irish. She won "Student of the year" in her last year in the English school and is now struggling in all her subjects. The closest English speaking school is 40-odd miles away.

The Dept. of Education shut down the English speaking school and then failed to provide provision for those students who didn't have sufficient Irish to be schooled in the Gael Scoil.

You can go on about, "It's in the Gaeltacht", but the English speaking school was there, so the expectation/requirement was created. You can't just remove that.

mikemac

Fair point Seamus and I actually heard some of that interview on the radio but didn't learn the location.

But still I find it harsh that the existing students of the Gaelscoil could have that status taken away as the new students cannot manage.
How many threads do we see about immigrants to Ireland need to learn English and integrate. Same principle here as the students especially as they are in the Gaelteacht region.

I'm guessing most pupils that were in the English speaking school are Irish. Therefore they have studied Irish for years and should have a good competancy. Sink or swim time I'm afraid.

The English girl is a different case and yes it will be tough for her.
At the same time, are you saying the Gaelscoil should be shut and reopened as a ordinary school just to suit her? No way imo.

randylonghorn

micmclo wrote: »

How do you live in the Gaelteacht and attend a Gaelscoil and still manage to have a poor level of Irish?

1. because not every pupil going to Dingle for secondary school live in the Gaeltacht, in a practical sense anyway, whatever the arbitrary lines on a map might say.

2. for that matter, with people moving back into the area over the last few years, and indeed families from the UK / Germany / Holland etc. who have moved to the area, many of the teenagers who now do live within the practical Gaeltacht boundary did not necessarily attend Gaelscoileanna as primary pupils.

micmclo wrote: »

And how have the students a valid point? That's a bit like me attending a school in France and then striking as they won't teach me in English. Surely they know how a Gaelscoil operates.

This is the new Community School made up of an amalgamation of the previous second-level schools in the town. To the best of my knowledge, it is not a case of these pupils having opted for a Gaelscoil and then objecting to being taught through Irish ... this is the only choice available.

EDIT: got delayed and Séamus got in first with similar points. Micmclo, the major part of the true Gaeltacht is to the west of Dingle town. Many families within the ambit of this school have the same level of Irish as if they lived in Meath, Kilkenny or Laois.

This kind of forcing is what has traditionally engendered so much hatred of the Irish language among so many school-leavers; it is counter-productive.

seamus

micmclo wrote: »

But still I find it harsh that the existing students of the Gaelscoil could have that status taken away as the new students cannot manage.
How many threads do we see about immigrants to Ireland need to learn English and integrate. Same principle here as the students especially as they are in the Gaelteacht region.

It's not exactly the same though. You're not asking a school in a foreign country to teach a foreign language. You're asking a school to provide facilities for a subset of students who will only be there for a couple of years - facilities which are not extraordinary considering that the language primarily spoken in this country is English. The number of Irish-only speakers in this country is negligble. Fact is, anyone who speaks Irish can speak English too, so they're not asking for anything exceptional. English is not a foreign language, even in the Gaeltacht.

I wouldn't advocate changing the school to English, just providing for the students who don't have enough Irish to function. They only have to maintain this for four or five years - new students coming in should be taught solely through Irish.

I'm guessing most pupils that were in the English speaking school are Irish. Therefore they have studied Irish for years and should have a good competancy. Sink or swim time I'm afraid.

I don't accept that. If the students haven't been taught properly or otherwise don't have the knowledge, you can't suddenly make it appear in their heads. Imagine giving someone a job as an accountant even if you knew they failed foundation maths? Would you expect them to "pick it up", or would you expect them to fail? And whose fault would it be when they failed?

Unshelved

Some pupils are exempt from Irish. If you haven't been taught Irish by the time you're - I think - twelve, because you've lived in another country, you're exempt from learning Irish. These pupils attended a school in Dingle which taught through English. This school has been amalgamated into the new Community School where it has been decided to teach everything through Irish.

It's very unfair on the pupils from the school where everything has up until now been taught through English, to switch to learning in another language. Especially if a child is going into fifth year and is entering the Leaving Cert cycle.

There is a case to be answered. But unfortunately, when it comes to the Irish language, logic gets thrown out the window.

cance

having started in an irish secondary school with pigeon irish and finished with honours. i'd have to say pull up your socks you little shítes and get on with it.

but thats just me,

seamus

cance wrote: »

having started in an irish secondary school with pigeon irish and finished with honours. i'd have to say pull up your socks you little shítes and get on with it.

but thats just me,

You're right you know. And just to illustrate the point, I've signed you up to sit seven subjects in the Leaving Cert in June '09. All of the classes are in Mandarin.

Best of luck

cance

seamus wrote: »

You're right you know. And just to illustrate the point, I've signed you up to sit seven subjects in the Leaving Cert in June '09. All of the classes are in Mandarin.

Best of luck

theres a huge difference between mandarin and irish, so theres no comparison.

this country is just too fúcking liberal these days, who gave teenagers voices? and who started listening?

seamus

cance wrote: »

theres a huge difference between mandarin and irish, so theres no comparison.

Grand then. Pick any european language you're not familiar with. Portugeuse?

mike65

Irish is more incompreshensible than Manderin! Irish is one of the most difficult languages to learn unless you've been 'born' to it as it has little or nothing in common with the Greco-Roman and subsequent Germanic families.

Mike.

TheDriver

I like the reasoning that its your right to eduaction in English etc. I totally agree, exact same as pupils have a right to:
equality especially having some kids in class of 30 and others in classes of 3.
comfort: I just love the mould running down the walls and those primary schools with the outside toilets still
lots and lots more. Its our eduaction system and needs lots more money and lots of rights but unfortunately theres lots and lots more kids being hard done by on other things too.

randylonghorn

I doubt if anyone will disagree with your basic point, TheDriver.

I doubt, however, that you are arguing that it is ok for these kids to be penalised by a policy born of a small but vocal number of overly-fanatical Gaelgeoiri, simply because other kids are being penalised in other ways for very different reasons?

That would be a bit like arguing that because some people in the world do not have enough to eat, we should actively seek to ensure that nobody in the world has enough to eat. I'm sure you would agree that the more logical policy is to seek to ensure that everybody has enough to eat, regardless of what different reasons there may be underlying their hunger.

syklops

cance wrote: »

having started in an irish secondary school with pigeon irish and finished with honours. i'd have to say pull up your socks you little shítes and get on with it.

but thats just me,

Thats very helpful that is. Thanks for that. So they neglect their english and concentrate on Irish, and end up passing. And then they go onto college, where they discover they do not know the english words for half their Math/Science classes, and then have to pull their socks even tighter?


In case you have not noticed I am 100% against the compulsory teaching of irish in school, 100% against the use of it in the Defence Forces, and other government areas. I do not want to the ban the language, but forcing the language on everyone puts one more nail in its coffin.

Maybe polish should be compulsary in school. Because lets face it, there are about 1000's more people in Ireland who are fluent in that, than in Irish.

JC 2K3

syklops wrote: »

Thats very helpful that is. Thanks for that. So they neglect their english and concentrate on Irish, and end up passing. And then they go onto college, where they discover they do not know the english words for half their Math/Science classes, and then have to pull their socks even tighter?

Yeah because when you learn maths/science subjects through Irish in Secondary school you're not taught the English words also. And there are no English classes in Gaelscoileanna. :rolleyes:

Big Ears

cance wrote: »

having started in an irish secondary school with pigeon irish and finished with honours. i'd have to say pull up your socks you little shítes and get on with it.

but thats just me,

and those who have just gone into 6th year ? , surely you hardly expect them to be successful if they are not used to being thought in Irish .

mise_me_fein

Quote from Rambo III "Fcuk em"

For the good of the country we need to start teaching in Irish again. I seen some Russian girl giving out about this story in the paper saying she had to travel 30 miles to go to an English speaking school.....Last I heard Russia was not in the EU. Irish and English have the same rights in this country.

WTF was she complaining about. Maybe the family should fcuk back to Russia and see how they like it there.

Yeah this country is too liberal.

knightmare

mise_me_fein wrote: »

Quote from Rambo III "Fcuk em"

For the good of the country we need to start teaching in Irish again. I seen some Russian girl giving out about this story in the paper saying she had to travel 30 miles to go to an English speaking school.....Last I heard Russia was not in the EU. Irish and English have the same rights in this country.

WTF was she complaining about. Maybe the family should fcuk back to Russia and see how they like it there.

Yeah this country is too liberal.

I agree 100%. Whole country is gone too bloody PC, bending over backwards to accomodate newcomers. Why da Feck don't these people p*ss off into tralee or killarney if they need english so badly. Polish only schools opening in waterford, cork and limerick yet none of the irish are giving out about it... just get on with it & stop your whinging

seamus

knightmare wrote: »

I agree 100%. Whole country is gone too bloody PC, bending over backwards to accomodate newcomers. Why da Feck don't these people p*ss off into tralee or killarney if they need english so badly. Polish only schools opening in waterford, cork and limerick yet none of the irish are giving out about it... just get on with it & stop your whinging

Have you even read the thread? Nobody is suggesting that we supply english schools in the Gaeltacht. Just accomodate that handful of students who have been forced out of their english-speaking school. Nothing more.

Or is this just some xenophobic, "Out with the forigners" crap?

knightmare

seamus wrote: »

Have you even read the thread? Nobody is suggesting that we supply english schools in the Gaeltacht. Just accomodate that handful of students who have been forced out of their english-speaking school. Nothing more.

Or is this just some xenophobic, "Out with the forigners" crap?

Pity about them! Just accomodate a handful of students--give me a break thats how it always starts.
Why should the policy of the school change to accomodate a small few? Stand firm I say.....fck em

seamus

knightmare wrote: »

Pity about them! Just accomodate a handful of students--give me a break thats how it always starts.
Why should the policy of the school change to accomodate a small few? Stand firm I say.....fck em

Because the school policy effectively changed to disadvantage these students in the first place. Again, do you even understand what this is about or are you just foaming at the mouth for the sake of it. These are mostly Irish kids, who have been taught in English all their lives, now being forced to learn in Irish.

knightmare

seamus wrote: »

Because the school policy effectively changed to disadvantage these students in the first place. Again, do you even understand what this is about or are you just foaming at the mouth for the sake of it. These are mostly Irish kids, who have been taught in English all their lives, now being forced to learn in Irish.

Irish Kids or not it is a gaelscoil, can you understand that much a ..gaelscoil. So either adapt or p*ss off. A handful with loud voices expecting the fundamental principles of a school to change just because they are inconvenienced.....Again pity about em.

bohsman

Unshelved wrote: »

Some pupils are exempt from Irish. If you haven't been taught Irish by the time you're - I think - twelve, because you've lived in another country, you're exempt from learning Irish. These pupils attended a school in Dingle which taught through English. This school has been amalgamated into the new Community School where it has been decided to teach everything through Irish.

I was born in Sweden but moved to Ireland when I was 4, did all my schooling in Ireland, found out in 6th year that I didnt need to pass Irish to get my LC.

seamus

knightmare wrote: »

Irish Kids or not it is a gaelscoil, can you understand that much a ..gaelscoil. So either adapt or p*ss off. A handful with loud voices expecting the fundamental principles of a school to change just because they are inconvenienced.....Again pity about em.

No, they expect to be accomodated by the Government for a short period of time until they finish their schooling, they're not asking the Gaelscoil to change. It's not just a matter of being "inconvenienced". They don't speak the language, making it effectively impossible for them to be taught. The local government has deprived these kids of their right to an education over some bull**** politics about a floundering unused language. There is absolutely no harm in providing schooling in English for these kids until they finish. Then the local politicians can go back to their insular ways.

"Adapt or piss off"? Grand so, I've signed you up for the leaving cert in 09 too. In Mandarin. I say the best strategy will be to become fluent in Mandarin in a year and then covers two years' worth of material in one year. You can adapt to that right? Easy.

knightmare

seamus wrote: »

No, they expect to be accomodated by the Government for a short period of time until they finish their schooling, they're not asking the Gaelscoil to change. It's not just a matter of being "inconvenienced". They don't speak the language, making it effectively impossible for them to be taught. The local government has deprived these kids of their right to an education over some bull**** politics about a floundering unused language. There is absolutely no harm in providing schooling in English for these kids until they finish. Then the local politicians can go back to their insular ways.

"Adapt or piss off"? Grand so, I've signed you up for the leaving cert in 09 too. In Mandarin. I say the best strategy will be to become fluent in Mandarin in a year and then covers two years' worth of material in one year. You can adapt to that right? Easy.

Mandarin--If I have too yes. Sink or swim buddy, sink or swim!

seamus

Best of luck so.

Your student number is 09256341. Let us know how you get on.

knightmare

seamus wrote: »

Best of luck so.

Your student number is 09256341. Let us know how you get on.

Grand Job so, any tips for the Oral?

Terry

knightmare wrote: »

Grand Job so, any tips for the Oral?

No, but I do have a tip for this forum.
Stop trolling or I'll ban you.

Pete4779

I think if you move to a dedicated Irish-speaking area, then you have to be prepared for things like this i.e., you might not have the same expectation of facilities in other areas.

I cannot demand in Dame Street that the bloke from India in the Spar speaks to me in Irish, and likewise, if he moved to a Dingle-area Gaeltacht, he shouldn't expect that everything fit to suit an English-only speaker (this is just an example).

There is a German school in Dublin called St. Killians. So, if you want to attend a German school, you have to go there. Likewise, I am sure there are English schools in Germany, probably in big cities, but if you found one in the arse end of Badem-Wuerttemberg and then it shut down with only a German-speakingschool left, well, you ****ing decided to move to the arse end of the country and are now free to move somewhere where you can get what services you want.

IS the state obliged to provide proper services? - Yes!
Is the state obliged to provide them all within walking distance of your home? NO!

What's next, no university on the Aran Islands?

No Polish-speaking school in Lahinch - because you like to surf but your child doesn't speak English?

There's no airport within 20 km of me - I demand I be given one - OR, I can simply decide that this is a choice I made and when I need services, I have to travel for some of them to other areas in the country.

seamus

You're still missing the point here. They're not demanding services that didn't exist. They're asking for previously existing services to be temporarily re-instated, after the service was removed despite the service being used and in demand. This isn't a case of people moving into the area and demanding the area change to suit them.

kelle

mike65 wrote: »

As for the money, I get the impression that there are grants for all sorts of things if you just happen to live/work in a Gaeltacht area.

Mike.

Yes, you can get grants but an inspector calls round to interview you through Irish and ensures Irish is the main language spoken in the house.

Sponge Bob

You now get a double grant for speaking Polish at home as well as Irish , it would be discrimatory not to pay out on the double for double the effort

mise_me_fein

I understand what some people are saying here but the end justifies the means here for me.

I applaud anyone for having the guts to make these tough decisions that will benefit us in the long term.

konawi

last I heard the 5th and 6th years were allowed to do their subjects in either English or Irish.

The school also put on extra irish courses for kids before the school term began and for god's sake - this school has been in the plans for years and has been a long time being built.

but it's just ridiculous that people don't have the choice to do it in English or Irish.
If people start being afraid to move to the gaeltacht cos theyt hink they have to do everything through Irish it'd be a disaster. Loads of English people run B&Bs, there are the chinese and indian restaurants and how many Irish people are happy to be the ones to do all the business/shop cleaning last thing at night? lets face it, all these jobs are going to the foreign nationals.

and anyway, it's mainly the local parents from the area that are complaining not hte foreign nationals. I feel sorry for those russians who have been targeted cos it's not like they made a big fuss about having to go to Tralee - it's the newspapers that targeted them and now foreign nationals are being made a scapegoat for the fuss behind a lot of this. do we not remember all the excitement with dingle/daingean??? don't remember any russians etc being too bothered with all that!

layke

cance wrote: »

theres a huge difference between mandarin and irish, so theres no comparison.

this country is just too fúcking liberal these days, who gave teenagers voices? and who started listening?

I WISH! I don't speak a word of Irish, the government tried to force it on me for years but I stood my ground. Years later I have absolutely no regrets about my decision. If only I could have spent my time doing some other subject I enjoyed rather then getting that crap rammed down my throat which I have absolutely no interest in.
There are some of us who see learning Irish as pointless, who are not interested in our heritage and lack a nationalist view on things.

I'm not sure how the population see it as a whole. I mean is Irish supported by the majority or the minority? I'm sure there's a load of people in the middle with the 'I don't really care tbh' which is fine I suppose.

Now, my point English is the common language we share. As long as we are advertising for foreigners to come into this country and work here we need to cater for them or they'll **** off home. End of.

mise_me_fein wrote: »

I understand what some people are saying here but the end justifies the means here for me.

I applaud anyone for having the guts to make these tough decisions that will benefit us in the long term.

Which benefits? Surely ****ing up someone's education is not going to benefit the country? If you mean Irish as the benefit, I fail to see any benefit in learning that other then for the hell of it.

Sam Vimes

micmclo wrote: »

How do you live in the Gaelteacht and attend a Gaelscoil and still manage to have a poor level of Irish?

by being foreign or by teachers not actually teaching through irish like they were supposed to

micmclo wrote: »

And how have the students a valid point? That's a bit like me attending a school in France and then striking as they won't teach me in English. Surely they know how a Gaelscoil operates.

its not really like that. some were supposed to be taught through irish through primary level and weren't, some were exempt from irish. now its the only school in the area. their educations will suffer needlessly

micmclo wrote: »

And what about the students who have fluent Irish and are enthuastic about the teanga? Does majority rule and some poor students lose out on Irish despite going to a Gaelscoil.

well we do live in a democracy. go to iraq if you want the minority to rule

cance wrote: »

theres a huge difference between mandarin and irish, so theres no comparison.

there is no difference whatsoever if you're being asked to go through school in a language that you don't speak

cance wrote: »

theres a huge difference between mandarin and irish,
this country is just too fúcking liberal these days, who gave teenagers voices? and who started listening?

please tell me you're joking, or do you want to join micmclo in iraq?

Sam Vimes

knightmare wrote: »

Irish Kids or not it is a gaelscoil, can you understand that much a ..gaelscoil. So either adapt or p*ss off. A handful with loud voices expecting the fundamental principles of a school to change just because they are inconvenienced.....Again pity about em.

for god's sake, there is no other school for them because it was closed. they are entitled to an education and government cutbacks should not deny them that right.

if they chose to move to france and then wanted to be taught in english i'd tell them to f*ck off but they have been forced into this situation by bertie and his pack of retards. what if the only school in your area was one of those all-polish schools? would you tell your kids to adapt or piss off?

Sam Vimes

layke wrote: »

Which benefits? Surely ****ing up someone's education is not going to benefit the country? If you mean Irish as the benefit, I fail to see any benefit in learning that other then for the hell of it.

the only benefit i have ever found for irish is that when you go abroad you can have conversations that no one around understands. the problem with that is usually my friends don't understand what i'm saying either

baztard

Commander Vimes wrote: »

for god's sake, there is no other school for them because it was closed. they are entitled to an education and government cutbacks should not deny them that right.

Your dead right, but I don't see why the present Gaelsciol should suffer. Can the department not say...

# Use the Gaelscoil building but
# Get in temporary teachers to teach through English for each subject for the new 5th and 6th years
# And force everybody in 1st - 4th year to be taught through Irish, whilst providing them with catch up classes

randylonghorn

Pete4779 wrote: »

I cannot demand in Dame Street that the bloke from India in the Spar speaks to me in Irish, and likewise, if he moved to a Dingle-area Gaeltacht, he shouldn't expect that everything fit to suit an English-only speaker

But no matter how the more extreme Irish language fanatics prefer to ignore the fact, the reality is that for most people in Dingle town and to the east of the town, English is their first language. Many would have better Irish than the average Irish person, but English is their first language. And I am talking about locals, not people who have moved there.

Choice has been available up to now ... it has been taken away for no good educational reason, but because of pressure politics.

knightmare wrote: »

Irish Kids or not it is a gaelscoil, can you understand that much a ..gaelscoil. So either adapt or p*ss off. A handful with loud voices expecting the fundamental principles of a school to change just because they are inconvenienced.....Again pity about em.

See my response to Pete above. Do you even know the area? I do ... very well.

And a "fundamental principle" in the Constitution of this country is to treat all the children of the state equally ... or don't you like those kind of principles?

Disadvantaging a large number of children in the area in order to push the Irish language agenda does not constitute equal treatment.

konawi wrote: »

but it's just ridiculous that people don't have the choice to do it in English or Irish.

and anyway, it's mainly the local parents from the area that are complaining not the foreign nationals.

Exactly ... for the reasons I mention above.

bunker

Radio Kerry News
The Chairman of Colaisti Chorca Dhuibhne Teo in Dingle is denying pressure is being put on women providing accommodation for students on Irish language summer courses to support the secondary school's Irish language policy. Colaistí Chorca Dhuibhne Teo, of Ballyferriter, which runs the courses, has written to about 50 mná tí asking them to sign a letter backing the Dingle school's all-Irish policy. A two day protest was held at the school last week by students want a bi lingual policy introduced. The signed letters are being sent to Education Minister Mary Hanafin and Gaeltacht Minister Eamon Ó Cuív.

Chairman Gearoid O Brosnachain says they were not asked to write the letter by the school. He denies they are applying pressure on the women to support their stance on the issue. Tom Geaney, of the Concerned Parents group claims some of the women, who are not in favour of the all-Irish policy say they have no option but to sign the letter because they fear students won't be sent to them again if they don't. About 2,600 students attend the summer language courses, which are reckoned to be worth about €2 million to the area, annually.

The principal of Pobalscoil just happens to be the manager/principal of this during the summer which is a nice nixer to his salary.

ThE_IVIAcIVIAIV

i know a few ex students from that school and they said the teachers always talked through irish but just gave out handouts in irish to the pupils who wanted to do subjects through irish which wasn't a big amount to be honest. there is alot of students there without irish parents, as one of the previous posters said there is alot of uk german etc families around. this school is brand new and previously there was 2 schools in the town, 1 for males 1 for females. not mixed like it is now. the girls school put more effort into doing things through irish but the current principal who was the principal of the boys school didn't have such effect on his pupils and teachers as irish wasn't spoken much outside of irish class.This same school was burnt down 3 years ago i think

Scoobydoobydoo

syklops wrote: »

So they neglect their english and concentrate on Irish, and end up passing. And then they go onto college, where they discover they do not know the english words for half their Math/Science classes, and then have to pull their socks even tighter?

This happened to me, in reverse. I had to move, in the middle of secondary school from a Gaelscoil to an English speaking school - and I really did struggle with maths and science etc. - all the terms I'd used till then were all as Gaeilge, then I hadn't a clue what they were talking about in English - BUT........
do you think I could have asked them to teach me in Irish or made allowances for me? NO, I think not. How could I? Why should they? Am I missing something because I don't get it. I did struggle also, for the very same reason, but I didn't ask the school to start teaching me in another language!!

randylonghorn

Scoobydoobydoo wrote: »

Am I missing something because I don't get it. I did struggle also, for the very same reason, but I didn't ask the school to start teaching me in another language!!

I think you are, if I'm reading your post correctly. You had to move from a Gaelscoil to an English-speaking school .. one person, presumably because your family moved or something like that? And I am presuming that your English was of a high proficiency, even if I accept fully that having to re-learn scientific terms etc. in English would have been a serious nuisance. Still, useful to have for the future ... like when going to college, or interacting with the vast majority of people in the workplace, here or abroad.

In this case, two schools which offered teaching through English as well as Irish closed, to be replaced by one school offering teaching only through Irish ... without agreement from an awful lot of the families concerned.

Seems slightly different to me, certainly?

jimmycrackcorm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

IThe teachers in those schools claimed a special allowance , currently €3000 a year, for the onerous task of teaching in a gaeltacht school through Irish.

It appears that as the Dept does not want to review what went on in primary and secondary schools in certain ' Gaeltachts ' for years....ie systemic teaching only through english ....they refuse to go there.

They do not want awkward questions about what was seen by their own 'inspectors' on the ground for example ....or for how long.

The Unions whose members knowingly made false pay claims , in some cases for decades, are not going there either.
.

But we all know that you can't sack a teacher so why bother.

Scoobydoobydoo

randylonghorn wrote: »

I think you are, if I'm reading your post correctly. You had to move from a Gaelscoil to an English-speaking school .. one person, presumably because your family moved or something like that? And I am presuming that your English was of a high proficiency, even if I accept fully that having to re-learn scientific terms etc. in English would have been a serious nuisance. Still, useful to have for the future ... like when going to college, or interacting with the vast majority of people in the workplace, here or abroad.

In this case, two schools which offered teaching through English as well as Irish closed, to be replaced by one school offering teaching only through Irish ... without agreement from an awful lot of the families concerned.

Seems slightly different to me, certainly?

Yes, I understand what you mean, and yes it was just me alone, but I understand how hard it is because even though obviously I have always spoken English, I learned absolutely everything till that point in Irish, so it actually pretty much was like learning in a foreign language! I know that's hard to believe maybe but it was a huge obstacle for me...

So I understand how difficult it must be for these students, and if my child were in this situation, yes I'd feel rightly stuck, it's just awful. The department have a lot to answer for to leave these poor kids in this desperate situation.
However, I just don't feel it's fair to expect a Gaelscoil to teach a certain amount of students through English. A Gaelscoil should be allowed to be just that, but maybe the department should have prioritised an English school in this particular area.
I just don't think it's the school's fault or problem to solve.

randylonghorn

Scoobydoobydoo wrote: »

Yes, I understand what you mean, and yes it was just me alone, but I understand how hard it is because even though obviously I have always spoken English, I learned absolutely everything till that point in Irish, so it actually pretty much was like learning in a foreign language! I know that's hard to believe maybe but it was a huge obstacle for me....

No, it's not at all hard to believe, tbh.

Scoobydoobydoo wrote: »

So I understand how difficult it must be for these students, and if my child were in this situation, yes I'd feel rightly stuck, it's just awful. The department have a lot to answer for to leave these poor kids in this desperate situation.
However, I just don't feel it's fair to expect a Gaelscoil to teach a certain amount of students through English. A Gaelscoil should be allowed to be just that, but maybe the department should have prioritised an English school in this particular area.
I just don't think it's the school's fault or problem to solve.

The problem is that it's not that simple ... there would be a strong vocal minority with a lot of clout, including local councillors, the local PP (who is a retired Professor of Irish) and, I suspect, the principal of the school, if he's the guy I'm thinking of, who have railroaded this through without proper consultation, and to an extent have sold the Department a dummy, with assurances that everyone was behind this, etc. They pushed for the Community School to be all-Irish, against the wishes of many in the area. A Gaelscoil which is set up to be a Gaelscoil is one thing; a Community School / Pobalscoil which is hijacked and made into a Gaelscoil against the wishes of many in the area ... an area where there is now no choice ... is something else again.

And many of these people grew up with my mother, and were her friends, though she would disagree with many of them on this issue. Despite loving Irish, her own first language, and teaching it all her life, she always maintained, as I would, that forcing it down peoples throats does far more harm than good.

And unfortunately that is what is happening yet again in this instance.