i want legal action against irish rail!

Calina

kearnsr wrote:

Surly where you work has a realtion as to where you live? The vast majority of people live with a 20 mile radius of were they work (I dont have an extact figure but it came up in a recent town planning thing I read).

In some respects, distance is irrelevant, particularly in the Dublin area given the vagaries of the bus routing system which compells you - in most cases - to travel via town if you're not on direct bus routes. It is the ease of getting there. Ultimately, I know people who commute in from Naas to north County Dublin. The appropriate choice might - roadworks on J8 of the m50 and along the M50 not withstanding - be to drive rather than go via public transport depending on the where in north County Dublin.

That's not without its disadvantages though and is a model we should be moving from.

popebenny16

Thirdly, personal abuse is against the charter of this forum and so you won't be in here for two weeks.

who got banned?

markpb

popebenny16 wrote:

who got banned?

I'm guessing it was something to do with the quote in this post?

popebenny16

markpb wrote:

I'm guessing it was something to do with the quote in this post?

Ah, I see. Some newbie falls into the old C&T trap whereby smart-arses nit pick your spelling, grammer and then post smart-arse replies untill the o/p, who is stressed out enough as it is, explodes and gets banned. But sure that's C&T for you, full of keyboard warriors who would never have the balls to say the things they say to you here to your face.

godtabh

popebenny16 wrote:

Ah, I see. Some newbie falls into the old C&T trap whereby smart-arses nit pick your spelling, grammer and then post smart-arse replies untill the o/p, who is stressed out enough as it is, explodes and gets banned. But sure that's C&T for you, full of keyboard warriors who would never have the balls to say the things they say to you here to your face.

Where is all that coming from?

Calina wrote:

That's not without its disadvantages though and is a model we should be moving from.

In the good old days before we thought out solutions this was the norm i.e build roads to get people from home to jobs.

Now its have them central located i.e massive mixed use developments.

Peoblem is we cant get any of it to work

popebenny16

kearnsr wrote:

Where is all that coming from?

Your post last night, it was rude and nasty and caused her to explode. Dont like that? Get a life.

murphaph

Calina wrote:

I have to say that while people are entitled to their opinion on certain things - the point is the Phoenix Park tunnel - which I've been through a couple of times when trains have been routed into Connolly rather than Heuston - is not a cure all to everyone's problems.

The issue relates to choosing to live outside Dublin. You could say in her particular case, the issue is not public transport, but the property market. Ultimately, I don't see why people should have to move every time they change job - by the same token, while I think she may have valid complaints about overcrowding and punctuality - as all rail users do - I do feel that she was not compelled to move to Sallins in the first place. There is - at the end of the day, still a certain contributory factor there.

There are certain disadvantages to working and living in Dublin. To some extent, if you are pragmatic, you will find a way of working around them. I live ten minutes from work as it happens, and I'm fortunate in some ways, but I also recognise how much I contributed to that fortune.

The issue I would have is there is now no point in complaining about what was not done in the past - it is not constructive, although it is a feature of living in this country - we would be better placed to move forward. That being said, I thought that the original post was excessive, and requests for class action against IR are fairly unconstructive in my view. I still - however - say that most people with any common sense - working in north Dublin would not choose to live somewhere like Sallins. The truth is people in this country have been making decisions based on where can I afford to buy rather than where can I afford to live. There are key differences. Whether the public transport network was adequate or not does not change this.

There are issues with public transport in Dublin - I will give you that. The OP's modus postus up top will not improve things. Flailing out achieves nothing.

Moving forward, I am not convinced that the Phoenix Park tunnel will fix everything or even all that much. I see it as a stop gap measure at best. The issue is that transport planning in Dublin - in particular - is confrontational, based on rail versus tram versus car versus bus versus publicly owned versus privately operated and practical needs are systematically at the bottom of the pile when it comes to consideration. Ultimately there needs to be some recognition that all these options should be working in tandem rather than competing against one another. Making it territorial only puts the backs of each party up and is hugely counterproductive.

An excessive number of people in the Dublin area are compelled to commute in comparison to other cities. While public transport needs to be ramped up, I think it should be part of a joined up thinking approach that would perhaps either move jobs out of Dublin - which is never going to happen unless they disappear - or moving people back into the city centre in the medium to long term. In other words, public transport cannot be looked at in isolation from residential planning.

Stop gap measure or not, it would allow commuters from the Kildare line to reach a much more central location than the relatively remote Heuston. Any other country would have built an interchange station at East Wall Junction-we allowed a developer to build apartments there. It's all political as I said before.

Stop gap measures are also generally implemented quickly with a view to replacement with a more permanent fix. The PPT remains out of use to passenger services and totally untried as a means of improving people's lives.

popebenny16

murphaph wrote:

Stop gap measure or not, it would allow commuters from the Kildare line to reach a much more central location than the relatively remote Heuston. Any other country would have built an interchange station at East Wall Junction-we allowed a developer to build apartments there. It's all political as I said before.

Stop gap measures are also generally implemented quickly with a view to replacement with a more permanent fix. The PPT remains out of use to passenger services and totally untried as a means of improving people's lives.

Yes, of course, its all the commuters fault for living there, not the fault of anyone else for failing to provide a service to them. CIE long ago wanted to provide passenger services through the PPT. They even planned stations at Blackhorse and Cabra. We have also had the farce that is the DART extenstion - it was supposed to go to Salins, not anymore. Funny, but if IE had been let by the DoT to go ahead with their original plans our O/P could see some light at the end of the tunnell (sorry).

As it is, the service from Portlaoise inwards is a disgrace. We all know it. CIE trotted out several lies for not using the PPT - it was a works tunnel, or there are no slots in Connolly. Well, after this week we can nail that last lie once and for all. IE managment told the local group that they could have a service through the tunnel, then did nothing on it. They said that to do it would cause confusion. Sure would. I'd be awfully confused too if I knew that despite unprecidented levels of investment, literally billions of euro, my train still leaves me in the middle of bloody nowhere when it can take me right into the city centre but for a little bit of work up at Glasneven and Liffey Junctions. Even without that work, it can be done.

If the guys running the sevice got off their backsides and tackled the issue head on, instead of burying their heads in the sand and creating little diversions (hello Broadstone) to buy themselves more room for creating excuses we could get these things sorted.

Calina

popebenny16 wrote:

Your post last night, it was rude and nasty and caused her to explode. Dont like that? Get a life.

And you, if you didn't like that post, could have reported it. As it happens nobody did. Despite that, I've been cleaning out reported posts from my inbox most of the morning courtesy of the OP.

I think your generalisation about C&T and its users is somewhat unfair. The vast majority of people are generally critical of public transport as it is offered in this country - it's not an army of apologists for the System which rises up in fury should anyone dare to criticise the System. I personally like well thought out reasoned posts. My opinion - and I offer this guardedly - is that the OP's opening salvo amounted to a rant and a whinge. It is not a constructive way of getting what you want.

Most people who are regulars here would probably say that in general, I have a very light hand in here, in fact, apart from a couple of thread locks last week they probably didn't even know I was still mod.

The above is taking you close to a C&T ban - take it as a warning to cool down and discuss the matter of public transport in commuter counties rather than heckling other posters.

In other words, I am issuing a general suggestion to all parties on this thread to keep remotely on topic or I will take some sort of action, be it bans or thread locks. I don't like doing this, but occasionally needs must and all that.

______________________________________

Back on topic:

the issue I have with stopgap measures in this country is that traditionally, they become the full measures as in "ah sure, we did that and its working fine now", sort of thing.

I don't spend too much time around the rail system in the city centre any more seeing as I too work in north County Dublin, however, I've always understood that one of the key issues with routing trains to Connolly is a lack of platform capacity there. Is this still the case? Genuine question.

Zoney

Seriously, are people trying to make out that folks who have long commutes have only themselves to blame? I would entirely agree that it's not the best predicament to get oneself into, but I hardly think it is remotely fair to suggest people aren't thinking straight when they do.

It's not even just down to home-owning. Finding rented accommodation is frequently disasterous in terms of cost or the condition of the property. It isn't just home-owners who have nasty commutes. Changing from one place to another is a hideous undertaking costing quite a bit of money, even worse if you're a home-owner trying to get similar property elsewhere in the country.

Yet we're supposed to go where the jobs are rather than whinge about under-development of the regions? It's pretty awkward to get a job of any sort of remotely relevant nature near where one already lives, even if in Dublin already. Conversely if you get the job first, and look to live somewhere handy it's usually similarly well-nigh impossible to get suitable accommodation. Sure some people are fortunate. They should be gracious enough to allow those who aren't to complain.

No wonder the government can get away with dismissing opponents as "whingers" when the members of the public take the attitude that people are getting what they deserve. I've encountered people who take a personal dislike to members of the opposition, because they point out what's wrong all the time. For crying out loud, that's their job!!! (In fact one of the reasons they aren't more effective is their fear of being seen as too "negative" by the public)

Anyone who's ended up doing a hideous commute has every right to complain and indeed be listened to. It's not some kind of mental deficiency that causes people to be in such a situation.

popebenny16

Calina wrote:

.

The above is taking you close to a C&T ban - take it as a warning to cool down and discuss the matter of public transport in commuter counties rather than heckling other posters.


the issue I have with stopgap measures in this country is that traditionally, they become the full measures as in "ah sure, we did that and its working fine now", sort of thing.

I don't spend too much time around the rail system in the city centre any more seeing as I too work in north County Dublin, however, I've always understood that one of the key issues with routing trains to Connolly is a lack of platform capacity there. Is this still the case? Genuine question.

The above you quoted is a comment, on a post, not a poster, that was posted last night on this thread. I'm entitled to comment on it, and the effect it had on the O/P. You can go right ahead with the ban for me if you like, but even a cursory glance at the posts from last night reveal that they contained words and phrases which were flaming. As I said, this is a common practice from some posters on this forum which is to rile up other posters who get banned whilst the flamers walk away. I'm not the only poster who has more or less given up on posting here because of it. Now that I have poited out this problem perhaps you might want to look into it, but if you dont, that's up to you.

As regarding your point about capacity in Connolly, there is capacity. We pointed this out to IE years ago, they denied it. They denied there was capacity when they met the local groups, then accepted there was, then said that having trains to Pearse (for example) at weekends would confuse people. There is capacity, any examination of the morning timetable will tell you that.

As for the o/p... well, she comes home, shattered perhaps, tired, sure she has a rant. Is that against the rules of this forum? She is a paying customer. She was looking for advice. Advise about what, if anythig she can do about the train situation. Posts such as "move house" "work somewhere else" are patronising, childish and flaming. But if that's your standards, fine.

godtabh

Calina wrote:

the issue I have with stopgap measures in this country is that traditionally, they become the full measures as in "ah sure, we did that and its working fine now", sort of thing.

I don't spend too much time around the rail system in the city centre any more seeing as I too work in north County Dublin, however, I've always understood that one of the key issues with routing trains to Connolly is a lack of platform capacity there. Is this still the case? Genuine question.

As you said temporary measures here tend to lead to permanent solutions. Any time I talked to any one about the Docklands station seemed to say that it was the future but on reading its PP yesterday its for 10 years only the reason being was to ease capacity problems in Connolly.

markpb

Calina wrote:

the issue I have with stopgap measures in this country is that traditionally, they become the full measures as in "ah sure, we did that and its working fine now", sort of thing.

I think that's a very realistic fear. At it's extreme I could point to the Dart. I agree it was amazing for it's time (and limited funding) but the very stop-gap/kludge nature of building a metro system on shared IC lines, means it's pretty poor these days. My girlfriend, who started commuting from Coolock to Ballsbridge last week, wants to know why two buses are faster than a feeder and the Dart? It'd a valid question....

I don't spend too much time around the rail system in the city centre any more seeing as I too work in north County Dublin, however, I've always understood that one of the key issues with routing trains to Connolly is a lack of platform capacity there. Is this still the case? Genuine question.

My understanding is that IR claim Connolly is full and can't take any more trains. P11 (RUI) have always claimed that if the timetable was re-organised, new slots could be found. This week when there was a problem with the Docklands station, IR "found" slots in Connolly to let Maynooth trains terminate there, suggesting perhaps that P11 have been right all along.

godtabh

markpb wrote:

My understanding is that IR claim Connolly is full and can't take any more trains. P11 (RUI) have always claimed that if the timetable was re-organised, new slots could be found. This week when there was a problem with the Docklands station, IR "found" slots in Connolly to let Maynooth trains terminate there, suggesting perhaps that P11 have been right all along.

Some maynooth trains terminate there normally. No Maynooth train goes to the Docklands station. It starts at Clonsilla (AFAIK)

popebenny16

kearnsr wrote:

Some maynooth trains terminate there normally. No Maynooth train goes to the Docklands station. It starts at Clonsilla (AFAIK)

Clonsilla - Docklands trains were divered into Connolly because Docklands was closed. It was closed because Deco couldnt be bothered to turn up for work and Paddy wasnt arsed to go from Connolly to open up. They found the slots because they are there, even though they have denied they are there.

mrbatman

It is only recently i have signed up to boards.ie and as a commmuter myself i would keep an eye out for the topics in here. needless to say i won't bother asking any questions now as quite frankly it looks like a bunch of little hitlers who want to feel good about themselves.
Seriously! what help are comments like "move house" or "no one forced you to buy a house"?
it is comlete ignorance to give answer's like that. what is a person supposed to do?, pay 400k for a shoebox in Dublin or 100k less for a house down the train tracks?
Perahps if a the smart posters took a closer look at the op's post they night notice that she typed "closer" in inverted comma's. (methinks it was a joke, perhaps about it's proximity to dublin and the journey time lenght).

I have to say good on you popebenny and murphaph, at least some people still have a bit of decency

godtabh

popebenny16 wrote:

Clonsilla - Docklands trains were divered into Connolly because Docklands was closed. It was closed because Deco couldnt be bothered to turn up for work and Paddy wasnt arsed to go from Connolly to open up. They found the slots because they are there, even though they have denied they are there.

That wasn't the point I was making.

As I said in the previous thread a train could have been delayed to let the train drop these passengers to get out. Its not difficult to do this. The system is relatively flexible.

And how do you know Deco and Paddy weren't bothered to turn up?

popebenny16

markpb wrote:

I At it's extreme I could point to the Dart. I agree it was amazing for it's time (and limited funding)

Sorry Mark, but it wasn't at all amazing. Dont forget that DART 2 was shelved. Every political party wanted it stopped altogether, the managment in CIE were the heros at the time, they got it despite opposition from every quater. The sacrifice was DART to Tallaght.

The other sacrifice was that the DARTS were made overseas and not in Inchicore and as a consequence the Unions in the Core got a nasty surprise in the shape of redundancies when the Mark3's were finished. They could have held out under different conditions till the early 90's and we could have seen all of our rolling stock made in Dublin. We didnt, and it was a shame, because the expertise in there was staggering - a legacy that lives on. When CAF went to make the 29000's a team from CIE went over and oversaw the entire operation. That didnt happen with the Mark 4's. You can see the results.

godtabh

mrbatman wrote:

it is comlete ignorance to give answer's like that. what is a person supposed to do?, pay 400k for a shoebox in Dublin or 100k less for a house down the train tracks?

Its a big decision to pay 400k or 100k less for a home.

But if you buy the cheaper home you have to deal with the consequences. A 300k home does not entitle you to a better way of life. It means you get more for your money but a the price of being further away from work. That's the trade off you have to make and deal with. You knew from the off that this is what you would have to deal with if you bought the house.

So I dont believe answers like that are ignorant

murphaph

kearnsr wrote:

Some maynooth trains terminate there normally. No Maynooth train goes to the Docklands station. It starts at Clonsilla (AFAIK)

Correct. But the point Markpb made still stands. They 'found' slots in the morning rush for trains from Clonsilla out of thin air. Docklands was built to allow the housing developments in Hansfield to proceed, no other reason. Connoly could have been modified cheaper (not necessarily easier mind) to accept trains up the Newcommen curve into P7-exactly what happened this week. IE are a lying pack of sh!tes as are their political masters. Nobody is willing to stick their well paid heads over the parapet.

markf909

kearnsr wrote:

That wasn't the point I was making.

And how do you know Deco and Paddy weren't bothered to turn up?

The fact that the station wasn't opened might be a clue.

popebenny16

kearnsr wrote:

As I said in the previous thread a train could have been delayed to let the train drop these passengers to get out. Its not difficult to do this. The system is relatively flexible.

Whilst I loath to rely on IE for any information I could point out that there were no such reported delays of other trains. Even if there was, as you say, it shows there is flexability in the system. A flexability that IE have denied exists and has now been proven to exist.

paulm17781

kearnsr wrote:

As I said in the previous thread a train could have been delayed to let the train drop these passengers to get out. Its not difficult to do this. The system is relatively flexible.

I said this is unlikely and the system is not relatively flexible. If it was, they would have more trains going to Connolly.

Mr. Batman. You're much better going to http://forum.platform11.org for advice. They won't attack you for buying a house in Kildare.

the_syco

sabrina99 wrote:

€34 for the train, i still have to pay for the dart then.

A tran&dart ticket could save you money. I save €10 a week on a bus&rail ticket, so you may save. Ask at the office.

Oh, and I can usually get a deat, but only if I get onto the train first, and run over to it. A seat is not my right, it's a privilage.

popebenny16

paulm17781 wrote:

I said this is unlikely and the system is not relatively flexible. If it was, they would have more trains going to Connolly.

Mr. Batman. You're much better going to http://forum.platform11.org for advice. They won't attack you for buying a house in Kildare.

(Cough) Paul... www.railusersireland.org now...(cough)

popebenny16

the_syco wrote:

Oh, and I can usually get a seat, but only if I get onto the train first, and run over to it. A seat is not my right, it's a privilage.

correct and right, and pointed out in a nice way.

Calina

murphaph wrote:

They 'found' slots in the morning rush for trains from Clonsilla out of thin air.

I would say a certain amount of redundancy is necessary for events such as these to be honest. If they couldn't have, I'd have been ploughing my way through a bundle of complaints about those too.

mrbatman

I have read back through this whole thread again and noticed this in the first post-
"b) sue them for a refund of my travel costs (only the last 3 weeks and counting) as i am not greedy and did once get a seat on the train a long long time ago...

It seems to me that by this the girl is implying that she does not expect a seat every morning. Merely that it would be nice to get one every now and again.

Pity other people can't read a post properly before jumping in ready to abuse!

godtabh

murphaph wrote:

Correct. But the point Markpb made still stands. They 'found' slots in the morning rush for trains from Clonsilla out of thin air.

If the system was rigid as it seems to be suggested here and any train was late the whole system would go to pot if the slightest delay occurred.

I'm suggesting that there is flexible slot that can be used in eventualities like this but wouldn't be practical to use on a day to day basis.

popebenny16 wrote:

Whilst I loath to rely on IE for any information I could point out that there were no such reported delays of other trains. Even if there was, as you say, it shows there is flexability in the system. A flexability that IE have denied exists and has now been proven to exist.

Thats my point the flexibility in the system allows for this. See above.

popebenny16

kearnsr wrote:

If the system was rigid as it seems to be suggested here and any train was late the whole system would go to pot if the slightest delay occurred.

I'm suggesting that there is flexible slot that can be used in eventualities like this but wouldn't be practical to use on a day to day basis.

Thats my point the flexibility in the system allows for this. See above.

Have to re-edit this post as I issed that bit I bolded. There is flexibility in the system, and IE have denied it is there. What is not there is a gap purposefully put in to allow for Docklands to be left unopened. We have seen the real timetable, not the one you get to see, and we have worked out that there are enough gaps for these services ab initio. Like I said, i am making a different point than you, my point is that for years IE say there was no such gaps, no capacity at all. We knew there was, now you know it too.