Whats your view's in the death penalty for..

Erin Go Brath

I'm for the death penalty.

You take a life, you lose your life. The person who was killed didn't get a choice to live, so why should the killer?

Plus its a good way of eradicating scum who when released from jail could well have it in them to take another life.

Zaph

Muff_Daddy wrote:

It appears to me from reading some of the comments that a lot of you people have empathy with these monsters.

Being against the DP does not necessarily mean that you feel anything for the criminals. I believe they should be locked up for life, never to breath air as a free person again, and they should be deprived of life's little pleasures while they are serving their time. I just fail to see how killing someone solves anything, it's purely revenge IMO.

Muff_Daddy

Scoobydoobydoo wrote:

I totally understand where you're coming from Muff Daddy, and let me say first - I am not a do-gooder by any means, believe me. I am not politically correct in many of my views.
On this subject, I have no pity whatsoever for murderers. I simply don't believe anyone has the right to take life, government or otherwise. I would like to see murderers punished to a far greater degree than what they seem to be getting right now let me tell you, but I believe that killing is wrong.
Another thing that bothers me, is that from time to time, people are wrongly convicted, and obviously, if you execute them before the truth is discovered, then oops, too late! I do not want to live in a country where this is possible, and this is always possible where there is death penalty.

I saw a play in town a while back called The Exonerated which was about real life victims of miscarriages of justice in America, some of whom were exonerated only after they were executed. It's never a good thing for a government to have blood on its hands.

http://www.theexonerated.com/

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

Those pieces look very interesting.....and I'll definitely catch that play if it's out again.

I see what your saying....and like I said anyone accused of these heinous crimes should be given a fair trial.....that goes without saying. If it cannot be proved beyond a reasonable doubt that a person committed a crime, then he/she should not be punished.

humbert

zaph wrote:

Being against the DP does not necessarily mean that you feel anything for the criminals. I believe they should be locked up for life, never to breath air as a free person again, and they should be deprived of life's little pleasures while they are serving their time. I just fail to see how killing someone solves anything, it's purely revenge IMO.

Well it's a much less expensive way too keep them away from society. I'm against it because the legal system is fallible and the death penalty leaves no room for appeal.

Steyr

chucks wrote:

Then the scum come out even more messed up in the head than they were before they went in

Fcuk em, poor excuse for a human.

mikemac

humbert wrote:

I'd say if anything it's worse to kill a civilian. Gardai being killed is more worrying in terms of law and order, but not more deserving of the death penalty, which I'm against.

I disagree. When I read in the paper about some low level drug dealer being shot dead, I feel nothing as that's the life they choose.
If I hear of some innocent bystander being killed then I think it's terrible and I do have confidence in the Gardai to catch the offenders.

But I would put the killing of a garda over the killing of a civilian (yes, I know one life should not be more important than another)
The shooting in the North Strand crossed a very important line and if the offenders are not caught and get their sentances swiftly (and their deserved harsh treatment from prison officers )then I reckon they will be 3+ more shooting of gardai by this time next year.
The same way is if someone ever kills the President then it's more important then the murder of anyone reading this on boards.
But I put more importance in the State than most people I suppose.

I do believe in the death penalty if it's done like it used to be done in Britain. Like the execution is done within 6 weeks instead of 10 years as we often see in America.
Just as the robbers in Lusk PO deserved to die for "attempted murder" imo, then these guys in the North Strand deserve to die.
To attack an offical of the State is the same as attacking us all.

I don't expect anyone else to agree with me, just my opinion

Muff_Daddy

zaph wrote:

Being against the DP does not necessarily mean that you feel anything for the criminals. I believe they should be locked up for life, never to breath air as a free person again, and they should be deprived of life's little pleasures while they are serving their time. I just fail to see how killing someone solves anything, it's purely revenge IMO.

That would work if our judges knew how to sentence these scum properly, but it seems in all liklihood if I killed someone tomorrow and owned up to it, I would be out within 15 years on good behaviour. It's seeing there murderers walking away from prision far too prematurely time and time again that makes me feel the way I do about the DP. It's not about revenge, its just that I don't believe these toerags should ever walk free among civilised people, and the DP is simply the quickest way of eradicating them.

leninbenjamin

dunno how it compares to others of the genre but i found John Grisham's The Innocent Man quite insightful. about Ron Williamson and the state of justice affairs in Oklahoma.

based on reading this i would never even entertain an idea of having a death penalty unless you can be 100% sure that your justice system is foolproof.

biko

Any life in prison >20 year sentence can/should be turned into a death sentence imo
Unless I was framed...

Brian017

I think the death penalty would be too easy for them as they haven't to live with it like the victims families have to. However, the suggestions that Steyr made are spot on imo. Also I believe Life should mean exactly that. It really annoys when I hear people getting life sentences because that isn't the case.

galwayrush

agree, a life sentence should be until death, no privillages, prison should be a place where no one wants to go, and for murder, it should be hard labour for life, not a training school for perps .

johnnyskeleton

kraggy wrote:

As an aside, but still in reference to part of this discussion, who controls what sentences may be handed out for a particular crime.

The legislature in general and the judiciary in particular.

kraggy wrote:

i.e. who can change the rules so that life would mean life and not the sometimes 3/4 years it can be nowadays.

Life does mean life - for the rest of your natural life you can be imprisioned at the pleasure of the minister for justice. If he wants to keep you in mountjoy until you die then he will.

Name one instance of a life sentence being 3/4 years. There might be one or two in extremely special circumstances e.g. politicial crimes, but the average length of time served before first release on licence in Ireland is, I understand, approximately 14 years.

If they commit further offences they can be returned to prison without trial.

And in the specific circumstances of murdering a garda (capital murder) the minimum time that must be served prior to release on licence is 40 years.

kraggy wrote:

does the minister change the sentencing structure or do judges or who?

Only the legislature (i.e. both houses of the oireachtas) can change the sentence structure - maximum, minimum, mandatory and presumptive sentences - and generally sentencing policy is governed by the decisions of the Court of Criminal Appeal and the Supreme Court.

Muff_Daddy wrote:

That would work if our judges knew how to sentence these scum properly, but it seems in all liklihood if I killed someone tomorrow and owned up to it, I would be out within 15 years on good behaviour. It's seeing there murderers walking away from prision far too prematurely time and time again that makes me feel the way I do about the DP.

I don't think that 15 years is a short time in prison. It's an eternity. You go in when you're 20, you're out when youre 35. You could go in being a cold merciless killer, and go out wishing you hadn't wasted your life. Imagine the best years of your life were spent tucked up with your chamberpot and only the occasional rape by an AIDS infected junkie to keep you company.

Muff_Daddy wrote:

It's not about revenge, its just that I don't believe these toerags should ever walk free among civilised people, and the DP is simply the quickest way of eradicating them

To be honest, that sounds a lot like facism.

Steyr

Brian017 wrote:

I think the death penalty would be too easy for them as they haven't to live with it like the victims families have to. However, the suggestions that Steyr made are spot on imo. Also I believe Life should mean exactly that. It really annoys when I hear people getting life sentences because that isn't the case.

Can i be Minister For Justice now please? Il bring em cnuts to order! And how. Justice for all.

Steyr

The Gardai should have bullet proof vests and there should be some amount of unmarked cars WITH armed Gardai in every City/Town/Village who are non-uniformed at the ready to fight fire with fire, if those scum are ready to take innocent peoples lives and have no care for life or the laws of this State which we live in then we in this state should empower OUR state forces to take them out if they pose a serious threat to the immediate society.

Zaph

humbert wrote:

Well it's a much less expensive way too keep them away from society.

In America, due to the protracted appeals system they have, it actually costs less to keep a prisoner in jail for the rest of their life than it does to execute them.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Terry wrote:

Add to that -
Single cells without tv and no natural light.
Books only.
As little interaction with other prisoners as possible.

No to the death penalty.
Nobody has or should have the right to take the life of another.

That's worse than death, so pretty hypocritical considering you're preaching about no one having the right to take the life of another

bunny shooter

Hard labour, american style, busting rocks for no other reason that they need busting

Black Swan

Capital punishment kills the one offender, but does not deter future criminals. Some states in the US have capital punishment, others don't. Over the long run, there is no statistical difference between the two types of states in terms of the reduction of violent crime. Besides, the rich are treated different than the poor in terms of capital punishment rates. The rich can hire "dream team" defense attorneys, while the poor only have public defenders. "Money talks, and OJ walks!"

rossie1977

this is an excellent piece on the death penalty http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/27677/Penn_Teller_Bullsh_t_The_Death_Penalty.html

my favourite bit is a quote from the professor near the end when she talks about the PARADOX OF THE DEATH PENALTY:

"If you support the death penalty, and only one single innocent person is killed, and killing an innocent person is murder, then you are a murderer, so you deserve to be killed"

DonJose

johnnyskeleton wrote:

I don't think that 15 years is a short time in prison. It's an eternity. You go in when you're 20, you're out when youre 35. You could go in being a cold merciless killer, and go out wishing you hadn't wasted your life. Imagine the best years of your life were spent tucked up with your chamberpot and only the occasional rape by an AIDS infected junkie to keep you company.

The family of the murder victim have a life sentence, 15 years is nothing. Life should mean life. I've read stories of scumbags getting off with murder and getting a couple years for manslaughter. Only to be locked up again for murder at a later stage.

SimpleSam06

rossie1977 wrote:

my favourite bit is a quote from the professor near the end when she talks about the PARADOX OF THE DEATH PENALTY:

"If you support the death penalty, and only one single innocent person is killed, and killing an innocent person is murder, then you are a murderer, so you deserve to be killed"

All emotional / right to life arguments aside, there is a very simple reason why the death penalty should not be enacted. The legal system and the courts are not infallible, they do make mistakes. If someone is in prison, they can be subsequently freed and perhaps compensated. If someone has been executed, can you bring them back to life?

tallus

Victor wrote:

But who is going to prepare that food, clean the prison ....

Presumably not everybody in prison is there for capital murder. Let the other scum clean the cells.
I'm against the death penalty. All it takes is one innocent person to be put to death. No system is foolproof. Let them rot with absolutely no privelidges.

beans

I agree with those who denounce the DP on all circumstances, but as for this 23.5-hour celltime, breaking rocks for the rest of their lives thing... what a waste of potential.

If someone falls into the category of 'lifer', rather than just letting them sit in their cells reading, or digging a big hole, put them to some kind of use - maintaining the prison, sweatshop assembly-work, that kind of thing.

No parole, life-long sentences, with a measurable amount of useful output to show for it. Best outcome I would say. Let them earn their keep.

cjt156

I have to say that I, too, support the death penalty where appropriate. I think we earn our rights by exercising responsibility. If you abuse the rights of others you forfeit your rights, including the right to life.
Of course our flawed and subjective justice system would have to be overhauled.
I don't think the US should be held up as an example either; year after year of appeals creating a cult of celebrity for murderers while victims are forgotten and their families are ignored by whinging liberal do-gooders.

I heard it quoted that a gang member from South Central Los Angeles has a longer life expectancy on death row than on the street. F*cked up.

Colonel Sanders

I don't really agree with the death penalty but am all for stiffer sentences.

I think they used to have a system in France during the 80's (they possibly still do) where criminals were made pay for their upkeep in prison. Those who couldn't had to do hard labour to 'pay' for their prison space. I think thats a great idea.

HammerHeadGym

Kill em.

It's not like we're running low on scumbags in that country. And yes, there should definitely be a stiffer penalty for injuring the guardians of our society, they are the thin blue line between order and anarchy. Woe betide Ireland if the scum think they can kill the gardai and the PDF. They already consider themselves untouchable and have no fear of the justice system whatsoever.
I currently live in a country witha death penalty and let me tell you there isn't much messing going on when armed cops turn up asking for sa bit of peace and quiet.

And as for the life in prisonment, let us examine the econmics;
cost of keeping a prisoner locked up= c. 100k$ a year x 40 or 50 years.
cost of 6 bullets = c. 4$

(forgive the dollar signs, my puter doesn't have a butoon for europes.)

SimpleSam06

HammerHeadGym wrote:

cost of 6 bullets = c. 4$

Brilliant idea! And when you're done, you can send the bill for the bullets to their families! :rolleyes:

ROCKMAN

Death Penalty for uniform people ie Garda killed in line of duty? not sure they are more important had your average joe soap just because of a uniform!

However DEATH PENALTY FOR CHILD KILLERS OR CHILD RAPIST

HELL YES

Terry

HammerHeadGym wrote:

(forgive the dollar signs, my puter doesn't have a butoon for europes.)

Try alt gr + 4

biko

I think we should try a zero tolerance for maybe the year 2008.
Any crime that will give any prison time is turned into a death sentence.