Whats your view's in the death penalty for..

arybvtcw0eolkf

The killers of our uniformed services, ie Garda's, soldiers, prison officers and paramedics (including fire fighters)?.

In light of yesterdays shooting of the garda in Dublin and the debate as to arming the police or not.

I'm including members of the Defence Forces, Prison officers & paramedics since they're all aids to the civil powers (garda).

Lets try stick with these services.

My views, as a serving member of the defence forces is ... ... I'm against the death penalty, period.

monkeyfudge

The state has no more right to murder people than these scumbags do.

humbert

I'd say if anything it's worse to kill a civilian. Gardai being killed is more worrying in terms of law and order, but not more deserving of the death penalty, which I'm against.

DonJose

Since Oglaigh na h-Eireann disbanded the only threat to the police force is from armed criminals. The courts need to hand out stiffer sentences for those caught in possession of firearms.

dotsman

Against the death penalty being carried out to a prisoner, but if a scumbag was to bite a bullet while attacking an innocent person or guard/medic etc, then I'm not going to bat an eyelid.

Steyr

Here is my idea:
( 1 ) 23.5 hour lockdown. ( serve food through the cell etc )

( 2 ) Life should mean life for a sentence.

( 3 ) No Parole for any reason whatsoever.

( 4 ) Only one visit to prisoner every 6 months no exceptions.

See how the scum like it now.

Steyr

DonJose wrote:

Since Oglaigh na h-Eireann disbanded

They havent gone away you know....

petes

What, so people in the uniformed services are more important than civilians??

Terry

Steyr wrote:

Here is my idea:
( 1 ) 23.5 hour lockdown. ( serve food through the cell etc )

( 2 ) Life should mean life for a sentence.

( 3 ) No Parole for any reason whatsoever.

( 4 ) Only one visit to prisoner every 6 months no exceptions.

See how the scum like it now.

Add to that -
Single cells without tv and no natural light.
Books only.
As little interaction with other prisoners as possible.

No to the death penalty.
Nobody has or should have the right to take the life of another.

Steyr

petes wrote:

What so people in the uniformed services are more important than civilians??

Certainely not and i think Mairt has this applied to civvies too but these are people who do extraordinary work that the majority of people never see or even know about, they deserve our respect especially for doing jobs that most of us would never do.

Steyr

Terry wrote:

Add to that -
Single cells without tv and no natural light.
Books only.
As little interaction with other prisoners as possible.

No to the death penalty.
Nobody has or should have the right to take the life of another.

You just did!:)

petes

Steyr wrote:

Certainely not and i think Mairt has this applied to civvies too but these are people who do extraordinary work that the majority of people never see or even know about, they deserve our respect especially for doing jobs that most of us would never do.

Thats fine, but I won't put someone on a pedastool just because they choose to do something I wouldn't.

bronte

Yeah, I have to say..i think the death penalty sends out the wrong message.

monkeyfudge

Can the thread title be fixed please? It hurts my brain....

Naikon

I don't agree with the death penalty at all.
For example, It's an easy way out for some criminals that are facing years upon years in Prison to suddenly be slipped into death instead of rotting in a cell.

admiralofthefleet

im totally against it, like terry said nobody should have the right to take another's life, besides didnt we vote in a refferendum to outlaw the death penalty in any circumstances. wasnt it the same time as the vote to modify articles 2 and 3 of the constitution?

Scoobydoobydoo

Against the death penalty, as everyone has the right to life, and it would be appalling if we lived in a country where the government displays little regard for life by taking it - nobody has the authority to take life.
However, I do think a life sentence should do what it says on the tin, and also make life a little more miserable for inmates depending on the severity of their crime.

petes

monkeyfudge wrote:

Can the thread title be fixed please? It hurts my brain....

In my half drunken idiocy I never even noticed. Thanks for hurting my brain too.

kraggy

As an aside, but still in reference to part of this discussion, who controls what sentences may be handed out for a particular crime.

i.e. who can change the rules so that life would mean life and not the sometimes 3/4 years it can be nowadays.

does the minister change the sentencing structure or do judges or who?

k.

Zaph

I'm with others on this - lock them up in the most basic cell with as few comforts as possible and throw away the key. Re-open the cell when it's time to bury them in 40 or 50 years. State sanctioned murder is no better than murder perpetrated by a criminal.

cooperguy

How can you justify killing somebody as punishment for killing somebody!!!

monkeyfudge

petes wrote:

In my half drunken idiocy I never even noticed. Thanks for hurting my brain too.

Yep... forget about the death penalty... That's a harsh sentence up there!

Victor

Steyr wrote:

( 1 ) 23.5 hour lockdown. ( serve food through the cell etc )

But who is going to prepare that food, clean the prison ....

aidan24326

There is no justification for the death penalty in any circumstances. Tougher jail sentences would be the way to go. The gangland scum in this country can do whatever the fcuk they like, knowing that even if they're convicted of a crime, unless it's something very serious they're likely to get no more than a short jail term. And even some of the sentences for more serious crimes are a bit of a joke. But the death penalty is just state sponsored murder and most modern civilised countries have done away with it.

Muff_Daddy

I'm a long time surfer of boards.ie....but this topic has encouraged me to make my first post, as I have very strong views on the matter. Now.....I am for the death penality, but I stress, only if it is a suitable punishemnt for the crime involved - i.e. a deliberate murder of an innocent person - or any act directly resulting to murder, and some forms of rape. I'm not saying we should hang a gurrier who robs a loaf of bread from Tesco etc.

I actually can't believe every person who has posted in this thread is against the death penality. To say that for the state to kill a murdering scumbag is equal to same murdering scumbag killing an innocent person is so inaccurate its almost insane! These pyscopaths do not derseve to live amongst civilised people. I'll put it another way - we are all born into this world with a right to life, but if some madman took it amongst himself to end the live of some poor unfortunate, then the said madman WAIVERS his right to life, in my opinion. Why should a murderer be entitled to rely on the arguement of the right to life? Where was that scrout's regard for the concept when he committed the crime?

It appears to me from reading some of the comments that a lot of you people have empathy with these monsters. Why should anyone feel the slightest bit of sympathy for these poor excuses for human beings? The only entitlement a murderer (or child abuser) should be given is a fair trial, and if found guilty, to be killed humainly. Its probably still a fairer deal then what their victim got.

Rant Over.

ircoha

Scoobydoobydoo wrote:

Against the death penalty, as everyone has the right to life, and it would be appalling if we lived in a country where the government displays little regard for life by taking it - nobody has the authority to take life.
However, I do think a life sentence should do what it says on the tin, and also make life a little more miserable for inmates depending on the severity of their crime.

The State is already doing this by:
little or no enforcement on the roads
the tax take from alcohol sales
the drug problem.

The only problem I have with the DP is that innocent people will be executed eg the crooked cops in Donegal etc so not having it at least covers off that risk.
However if the evidence is clear, eg a drunk driver car wreck: the execution should be before they sober up: just do it.

ryanairzer

I don't support the death penalty at all.

I don't think prison should exist to make people suffer either per se.

It's like when your dog pisses on the floor and you punish it so it will realise that pissing on the floor = bad things will happen.

The idea of prison sentences should be to stop people from doing the crime again.

Obviously they shouldn't enjoy prison, but the ultimate goal should be for them to emerge from prison eventually as functioning members of society.

IF they cannot be rehabilitated, then yes they should be seperated from the wider public. BUT, I think they should just be allowed to consent to death instead of serving a pointless life sentence. I mean, if we decide that someone can't participate in our society, then christ let's not force them to stay alive for no good reason only for them to suffer.

Steyr

ircoha wrote:

The State is already doing this by:
little or no enforcement on the roads
the tax take from alcohol sales
the drug problem.

I feel as though i must side with you on this bit as i believe our Gardai,Troops/Sailors/Airmen deserve the best of the best to tackle these issues IE we have 2 Maritime Patrol Aircraft for a huge volume of Ocean that is ours to patrol yet we can not do it even our Navy is small and has a vast area to patrol and even then some of the Types we operate have to be inshore during storms or overnight at a port as they dont have the range/capacity etc its a akin to having one squad car to patrol Ireland, its a disgrace even Gardai cars dont have rolls bars like come on in a high speed chase and something happens then its a state burial.....:(

ryanairzer

ircoha wrote:

The State is already doing this by:
little or no enforcement on the roads
the tax take from alcohol sales
the drug problem.

The only problem I have with the DP is that innocent people will be executed eg the crooked cops in Donegal etc so not having it at least covers off that risk.
However if the evidence is clear, eg a drunk driver car wreck: the execution should be before they sober up: just do it.

When I was 15 I had clinical depression and was on a heavy dosage of medication which really I was too young to be taking. Anyway so the side effects were pretty bad for me, especially the drowsiness. So one day on the way home from school and I fell asleep while cycling and got slapped off the footpath. I mean I could have been 3 years older and driving a car.

The lesson here is, you don't FúCKING EXECUTE PEOPLE WITHOUT KNOWING THE CIRCUMSTANCES. I mean, I'm against DP full stop but holy christ. How do you know what the driver is going through right now? They could be a schizo or anything and you just want to kill them. I mean you probably support DP for rapists too but the guy diving the car while drunk could have been gang raped that morning. YOU DONT KNOW.

Christ, the idea of actually killing somebody without a trial even. Madness!

Scoobydoobydoo

I totally understand where you're coming from Muff Daddy, and let me say first - I am not a do-gooder by any means, believe me. I am not politically correct in many of my views.
On this subject, I have no pity whatsoever for murderers. I simply don't believe anyone has the right to take life, government or otherwise. I would like to see murderers punished to a far greater degree than what they seem to be getting right now let me tell you, but I believe that killing is wrong.
Another thing that bothers me, is that from time to time, people are wrongly convicted, and obviously, if you execute them before the truth is discovered, then oops, too late! I do not want to live in a country where this is possible, and this is always possible where there is death penalty.

I saw a play in town a while back called The Exonerated which was about real life victims of miscarriages of justice in America, some of whom were exonerated only after they were executed. It's never a good thing for a government to have blood on its hands.

http://www.theexonerated.com/

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

chucks

Steyr wrote:

Here is my idea:
( 1 ) 23.5 hour lockdown. ( serve food through the cell etc )

( 2 ) Life should mean life for a sentence.

( 3 ) No Parole for any reason whatsoever.

( 4 ) Only one visit to prisoner every 6 months no exceptions.

See how the scum like it now.

Then the scum come out even more messed up in the head than they were before they went in

Erin Go Brath

I'm for the death penalty.

You take a life, you lose your life. The person who was killed didn't get a choice to live, so why should the killer?

Plus its a good way of eradicating scum who when released from jail could well have it in them to take another life.

Zaph

Muff_Daddy wrote:

It appears to me from reading some of the comments that a lot of you people have empathy with these monsters.

Being against the DP does not necessarily mean that you feel anything for the criminals. I believe they should be locked up for life, never to breath air as a free person again, and they should be deprived of life's little pleasures while they are serving their time. I just fail to see how killing someone solves anything, it's purely revenge IMO.

Muff_Daddy

Scoobydoobydoo wrote:

I totally understand where you're coming from Muff Daddy, and let me say first - I am not a do-gooder by any means, believe me. I am not politically correct in many of my views.
On this subject, I have no pity whatsoever for murderers. I simply don't believe anyone has the right to take life, government or otherwise. I would like to see murderers punished to a far greater degree than what they seem to be getting right now let me tell you, but I believe that killing is wrong.
Another thing that bothers me, is that from time to time, people are wrongly convicted, and obviously, if you execute them before the truth is discovered, then oops, too late! I do not want to live in a country where this is possible, and this is always possible where there is death penalty.

I saw a play in town a while back called The Exonerated which was about real life victims of miscarriages of justice in America, some of whom were exonerated only after they were executed. It's never a good thing for a government to have blood on its hands.

http://www.theexonerated.com/

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

Those pieces look very interesting.....and I'll definitely catch that play if it's out again.

I see what your saying....and like I said anyone accused of these heinous crimes should be given a fair trial.....that goes without saying. If it cannot be proved beyond a reasonable doubt that a person committed a crime, then he/she should not be punished.

humbert

zaph wrote:

Being against the DP does not necessarily mean that you feel anything for the criminals. I believe they should be locked up for life, never to breath air as a free person again, and they should be deprived of life's little pleasures while they are serving their time. I just fail to see how killing someone solves anything, it's purely revenge IMO.

Well it's a much less expensive way too keep them away from society. I'm against it because the legal system is fallible and the death penalty leaves no room for appeal.

Steyr

chucks wrote:

Then the scum come out even more messed up in the head than they were before they went in

Fcuk em, poor excuse for a human.

mikemac

humbert wrote:

I'd say if anything it's worse to kill a civilian. Gardai being killed is more worrying in terms of law and order, but not more deserving of the death penalty, which I'm against.

I disagree. When I read in the paper about some low level drug dealer being shot dead, I feel nothing as that's the life they choose.
If I hear of some innocent bystander being killed then I think it's terrible and I do have confidence in the Gardai to catch the offenders.

But I would put the killing of a garda over the killing of a civilian (yes, I know one life should not be more important than another)
The shooting in the North Strand crossed a very important line and if the offenders are not caught and get their sentances swiftly (and their deserved harsh treatment from prison officers )then I reckon they will be 3+ more shooting of gardai by this time next year.
The same way is if someone ever kills the President then it's more important then the murder of anyone reading this on boards.
But I put more importance in the State than most people I suppose.

I do believe in the death penalty if it's done like it used to be done in Britain. Like the execution is done within 6 weeks instead of 10 years as we often see in America.
Just as the robbers in Lusk PO deserved to die for "attempted murder" imo, then these guys in the North Strand deserve to die.
To attack an offical of the State is the same as attacking us all.

I don't expect anyone else to agree with me, just my opinion

Muff_Daddy

zaph wrote:

Being against the DP does not necessarily mean that you feel anything for the criminals. I believe they should be locked up for life, never to breath air as a free person again, and they should be deprived of life's little pleasures while they are serving their time. I just fail to see how killing someone solves anything, it's purely revenge IMO.

That would work if our judges knew how to sentence these scum properly, but it seems in all liklihood if I killed someone tomorrow and owned up to it, I would be out within 15 years on good behaviour. It's seeing there murderers walking away from prision far too prematurely time and time again that makes me feel the way I do about the DP. It's not about revenge, its just that I don't believe these toerags should ever walk free among civilised people, and the DP is simply the quickest way of eradicating them.

leninbenjamin

dunno how it compares to others of the genre but i found John Grisham's The Innocent Man quite insightful. about Ron Williamson and the state of justice affairs in Oklahoma.

based on reading this i would never even entertain an idea of having a death penalty unless you can be 100% sure that your justice system is foolproof.

biko

Any life in prison >20 year sentence can/should be turned into a death sentence imo
Unless I was framed...

Brian017

I think the death penalty would be too easy for them as they haven't to live with it like the victims families have to. However, the suggestions that Steyr made are spot on imo. Also I believe Life should mean exactly that. It really annoys when I hear people getting life sentences because that isn't the case.

galwayrush

agree, a life sentence should be until death, no privillages, prison should be a place where no one wants to go, and for murder, it should be hard labour for life, not a training school for perps .

johnnyskeleton

kraggy wrote:

As an aside, but still in reference to part of this discussion, who controls what sentences may be handed out for a particular crime.

The legislature in general and the judiciary in particular.

kraggy wrote:

i.e. who can change the rules so that life would mean life and not the sometimes 3/4 years it can be nowadays.

Life does mean life - for the rest of your natural life you can be imprisioned at the pleasure of the minister for justice. If he wants to keep you in mountjoy until you die then he will.

Name one instance of a life sentence being 3/4 years. There might be one or two in extremely special circumstances e.g. politicial crimes, but the average length of time served before first release on licence in Ireland is, I understand, approximately 14 years.

If they commit further offences they can be returned to prison without trial.

And in the specific circumstances of murdering a garda (capital murder) the minimum time that must be served prior to release on licence is 40 years.

kraggy wrote:

does the minister change the sentencing structure or do judges or who?

Only the legislature (i.e. both houses of the oireachtas) can change the sentence structure - maximum, minimum, mandatory and presumptive sentences - and generally sentencing policy is governed by the decisions of the Court of Criminal Appeal and the Supreme Court.

Muff_Daddy wrote:

That would work if our judges knew how to sentence these scum properly, but it seems in all liklihood if I killed someone tomorrow and owned up to it, I would be out within 15 years on good behaviour. It's seeing there murderers walking away from prision far too prematurely time and time again that makes me feel the way I do about the DP.

I don't think that 15 years is a short time in prison. It's an eternity. You go in when you're 20, you're out when youre 35. You could go in being a cold merciless killer, and go out wishing you hadn't wasted your life. Imagine the best years of your life were spent tucked up with your chamberpot and only the occasional rape by an AIDS infected junkie to keep you company.

Muff_Daddy wrote:

It's not about revenge, its just that I don't believe these toerags should ever walk free among civilised people, and the DP is simply the quickest way of eradicating them

To be honest, that sounds a lot like facism.

Steyr

Brian017 wrote:

I think the death penalty would be too easy for them as they haven't to live with it like the victims families have to. However, the suggestions that Steyr made are spot on imo. Also I believe Life should mean exactly that. It really annoys when I hear people getting life sentences because that isn't the case.

Can i be Minister For Justice now please? Il bring em cnuts to order! And how. Justice for all.

Steyr

The Gardai should have bullet proof vests and there should be some amount of unmarked cars WITH armed Gardai in every City/Town/Village who are non-uniformed at the ready to fight fire with fire, if those scum are ready to take innocent peoples lives and have no care for life or the laws of this State which we live in then we in this state should empower OUR state forces to take them out if they pose a serious threat to the immediate society.

Zaph

humbert wrote:

Well it's a much less expensive way too keep them away from society.

In America, due to the protracted appeals system they have, it actually costs less to keep a prisoner in jail for the rest of their life than it does to execute them.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Terry wrote:

Add to that -
Single cells without tv and no natural light.
Books only.
As little interaction with other prisoners as possible.

No to the death penalty.
Nobody has or should have the right to take the life of another.

That's worse than death, so pretty hypocritical considering you're preaching about no one having the right to take the life of another

bunny shooter

Hard labour, american style, busting rocks for no other reason that they need busting

Black Swan

Capital punishment kills the one offender, but does not deter future criminals. Some states in the US have capital punishment, others don't. Over the long run, there is no statistical difference between the two types of states in terms of the reduction of violent crime. Besides, the rich are treated different than the poor in terms of capital punishment rates. The rich can hire "dream team" defense attorneys, while the poor only have public defenders. "Money talks, and OJ walks!"

rossie1977

this is an excellent piece on the death penalty http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/27677/Penn_Teller_Bullsh_t_The_Death_Penalty.html

my favourite bit is a quote from the professor near the end when she talks about the PARADOX OF THE DEATH PENALTY:

"If you support the death penalty, and only one single innocent person is killed, and killing an innocent person is murder, then you are a murderer, so you deserve to be killed"

DonJose

johnnyskeleton wrote:

I don't think that 15 years is a short time in prison. It's an eternity. You go in when you're 20, you're out when youre 35. You could go in being a cold merciless killer, and go out wishing you hadn't wasted your life. Imagine the best years of your life were spent tucked up with your chamberpot and only the occasional rape by an AIDS infected junkie to keep you company.

The family of the murder victim have a life sentence, 15 years is nothing. Life should mean life. I've read stories of scumbags getting off with murder and getting a couple years for manslaughter. Only to be locked up again for murder at a later stage.