UPDATE. Still next to NO physical intimacy in relationship

Dalfiatach

I had a girlfriend like this from 18-20. I eventually left, because as everyone else has been trying to tell you: this girl knows she has you wrapped around her finger. She knows you are a decent and noble old-fashioned gentleman who doesn't want to break up with her over a lack of sex, because that's the kind of thing asshole scumbags do, right? She can, and will, string you along for years. And in the meantime she has a "boyfriend", as in someone to take her out and buy her presents and make her feel good, but she really doesn't have to make any real commitment to the relationship.

After I eventually saw sense and got the hell out of that relationship. And it was only long afterwards that I realised just how false, manipulative, and downright negative a relationship it was for me, for my self-esteem and sense of what a "normal" relationship was.

A few years later me and the lads were having one of those 4am drunken chats and the subject of mad old girlfriends came up, and this particular ex of mine cropped up. Within weeks of us finishing she had slept with at least 3 fellas I knew, including one of the lads there. He was amazed to learn that in the 2 years we were together we'd never had sex - he didn't know that at all at the time he was with her. Nobody knew at the time, because everyone just assumed that a couple in a 2-year relationship were, well, doing all the normal things that long-term couples do.

OP, sorry to say it but you are being used and taken for a mug. Trust me, been there, and you only think you "love" this girl. Yeah, you enjoy spending time with her, but in reality she's just a good friend, not a real girlfriend. And part of it is the fuzzy feeling you get from the sense of noble chivalrous self-sacrifice. Don't get me wrong, it's a generally good thing and the world needs people like us - but you have to learn that some people in this world can spot the old Martyr Complex a mile off and rip the total piss out of it, and you'll be too busy feeling all good about yourself for selflessly helping others to realise what a mug yer being.

End it. Right now. Before you do terminal damage to both your self-esteem, ability to stand up for yourself, and your ability to ever conduct a mature adult relationship with another woman. If you don't, you'll spend the rest of your life being a doormat to a succession of selfish, self-absorbed, out-for-what-they-can-get girlfriends, friends, co-workers and bosses.

Fysh

By all accounts this doesn't sound like a fun situation to be in.

The long and the short of it is, she doesn't particularly want to have sex and you do. Neither of you is "wrong" for this; you're at your peak physically speaking, meaning your hormones are probably shouting and screaming for you to try and stick it in anything that moves while she's got a totally different hormonal issue going on due to the combination of the pill and her anti-depressants.

If you're happy with this situation, then by all meas continue with it. But it's not going to be easy for you - your sexual urges aren't going to go away, and you're going to have to deal with them. You may find yourself starting to think about other girls more often, you may find yourself becoming friendly with girls who are interested in you but don't have the low sex drive of your girlfriend. I'm not encouraging this in the slightest, I'm just pointing out that these are ways that unhappiness with your sex life can manifest themselves, and they're hard enough to deal with when you haven't realised what the problem is - I can't imagine them being any easier to deal with if you know ahead of time what your problem is.

It sounds to me like you need to knock this relationship on the head. It's not wrong to have a sex drive; it's admirable that you feel such strong commitment to your girlfriend and have avoided descending into a blaming match. But fundamentally, you're not happy with your sex life and that is the part of a relationship that distinguishes between a close friend and a lover - if you don't have any physical intimacy or she can't, for whatever reason, commit to the idea of being physically intimate with you then there are going to be certain barriers to emotional commitment and it won't end well.

Another point to consider - sex is not something that's perfect first time round. One of the fun things about it is practising to figure out what works, what doesn't, what you like and what you don't. Are you really willing to postpone learning anything much about sex on the hope that the first time you have sex with your girlfriend, it's enjoyable for you both?

In short, Sleepy got it right - you're basically the fag to her fag hag.

ali.c

Yeah i would be in agreement with most of the people on here. It would be one thing if she realised that she had an issue that was causing you unhappiness and decided to work through it with you, however slowly. Now it may be that she doesnt feel ready for a sexual relationship (not everyone is at that age) but then you shouldnt hang around waiting for her to be ready i think you have been patient enough already.

LegacyUser

I'm going unregged for this as I feel I can somewhat identify with OP's gf. I've been in a fantastic relationsip for almost 5 years and my problem has been that after the initial honeymoon period had worn off I found my sex drive slowing to pretty much zero. I was happy enough going along with things, never having sex and stupidly assumed that my bf must feel the same way.

Obviously, he didn't and we talked about it on a few occasions. It was upsetting, I felt under pressure but I ultimately realised that this is not the kind of problem that will just go away if you don't think about it. Differing sex drives isn't exactly any one person's fault, but having no sex drive whatsoever IS a problem and it was something I needed to work on. It's happened slowly, but things are much better now.

I'm sorry to say, but OP's gf saying that if the problem isn't mentioned and if she doesn't have to think about it, then things will just happen naturally is a complete and utter cop-out. It doesn't work like that. Nothing in this life works like that. Burying your head in the sand and expecting everything to magically sort itself out? No, she needs to work at this. Upsetting as it may be to talk about it, she needs to. You seem like a really genuine, understanding guy so she should know you're not looking for miracles instantly. But unless she's willing to show that she's making some effort, you're headed for trouble.

Also, and I'm sure you've realised this as well OP, she now seems to have you in a position where you'll be made to feel like a monster for ever approaching this subject again. I don't want my advice to be to break up, but ye have a serious problem which she's choosing to ignore, so I don't really know what else you can do.

Good luck!

Bottle_of_Smoke

She sounds manipulative. Did you actually have sex on holiday's? Sounds a bit like she wants to lose her virginity to someone else. Like someone who wouldn't put up with her frigidness. It's a gamble I know.

I'd take note of Dalfiatach's post. Seems to have very similar experience.

One emotion that really speeds things up is jealousy. Can be destructive but if I were you I'd start looking for extrememly good looking female friends.

Galadriel

As she has told you where she stands on the subject and you agreed to stay with her...theres nothing more you can really do, as someone else said you can't really bring it up again (well not for a while anyway) as she was pretty honest with you, but if you are already doubting your decision (so shortly after your talk) it doesn't sound to me like you will be able to put it out of your head and thats understandable, nobody can tell you whether to break up with her or not....you are the only one that can decide that, don't do anything rash and have a good think about it before doing/deciding anything.

Talliesin

How Strange wrote:

Yes, but she is quite happy to talk about their future, go on holidays, get the OP to buy presents for her family, get him to stay in away from his friends.

Why shouldn't she be.

Having an issue with something doesn't obligate you to refuse to talk about your future, go on holidays, etc.

pretty-in-pink

Shes probably scared, and might be playing mind games.
I would thinks shes either a) gonna sleep with some guy who will use her. or b) shes one of those "waiting till I'm married" kind.

Try a little gentle foreplay- start with stroking, massage, feathery kisses etc, build her up, and then leave her hanging. do it a few times, she'll start to really want to take things further, and eventually it will lead to sex. (in theroy, I can't promise anything)

If you love her, and everything else is great, then try it. and 20, thats not to young for a long termer. I was in one, from 18 to 22. and chances are we'll get back together in the near future. don't let some stupid hang-up ruin something you enjoy.

dRNk SAnTA

OP, from reading your two threads it looks like your relationship has actually regressed! you were at least engaging in foreplay before! look, she obviously has some issues that she needs to deal with, it shouldn't be your burden to wait around and buy her presents. Maybe when you break up with her she'll tell you whats really going on - either way get out of there and don't think about coming back until she's got a michael douglas-esque sex drive.

Talliesin

unrollerblades2 wrote:

She was upset/pissed off I had brought it up again. Because she hates talking about it. Apparently she feels it sets her back to square one. She reckons her problem is that she thinks about the sex thing too much and it plays on her mind in a negative way. She thinks that if she can avoid having to even think about for long enough, then it'll happen. Because she won't have been worrying about it.

To me this sounds like running away from the problem then dressing it up as actually attempting to deal with it.

unrollerblades2 wrote:

I guess she thinks it would prove my devotion to or love for her or some **** like that.

I hope not. Crap like that is very dangerous.

You prove your love to people through how you actually get on in your life with them, not through silly tests.

unrollerblades2 wrote:

It'll definitely happen for us. How can it not?

Because this is the real world, and there's nothing certain in your life except for death.

unrollerblades2 wrote:

As of now I don't know how I feel. I know that I no longer have the right to bitch and moan about the lack of physical intimacy we have, because she laid it all right out there for me; told me she probably wasn't going to change anytime soon. And yet I stayed with her. So whatever I'm putting myself through is 100% my own witting doing, now.

Never mind about bitching and moaning - that solves nothing. Do however pay attention to actually doing something.

If she wanted to refrain from certain sexual acts until married then fair enough - you'd know where you stood and could decide how you were going to deal with that.

However, this is all airy-fairy and it isn't going to be anything else until she deals with it.

She claims to want (eventually) a type of relationship that her actions are making impossible. Acting in a way counter to your own desires is about as good definition of pathological behaviour as you can get.

It's not going to all get fixed by magic. It's going to get fixed by her taking action to fix it, or deciding that she wants things to stay as they are forever (at which point she no longer has a problem - she's getting what she wants - and you can just move on).

zoro

cance wrote:

She doesnt want to have it, you do. If you try to convince her into it, or she see's the debate as "its sex, or its over", I'd personally feel like i was taking advantage of the girl.

I think one of his problems at the moment, is that this is exactly what he believes she will think if he keeps bringing the topic up.

Not a nice situation to be in

McGinty

Hi Op

There is some fantastic advice given here, but I am going to give another rather explicit opinion, basically take all the elements you have in your current relationship and combine that with a loving, wholesome, physical relationship.

Imagine that the girl you are with is looking at you with adoring eyes, a mouth that covers every part of your body, who takes delight in the pleasure you give her and the pleasure she recieves from you. Imagine that she desires you and lusts after you and tells you how wonderful she feels after you have made love, making you feel even more of a man. Add whatever desires and fantasies you have and know this right now-
YOU ARE CURRENTLY DENYING YOURSELF THIS PLEASURE AND BEAUTY.

Your girlfriend is being extremely selfish and cruel, and like what Dalfiatach said, it will erode your self esteem. I dated this lovely beautiful man who was formerly married, his wife did not like sex, he provided all like you did but she would not be intimate with him. It destroyed his self esteem, and he was gorgeous. He was so affected by her treatment that he was scared off from a loving, physical relationship. I am glad I gave him a little happiness but he was unable to accept it fully. I think it is important that you ask yourself why are you settling for so little? You are receiving crumbs when you could have a banquet. I don't think you truly know what you are missing, but I hope the day comes that you will experience exquisite physical pleasure in a loving setting, and I hope you choose it soon, don't settle for less.

Kell

unreg girl wrote:

that after the initial honeymoon period had worn off I found my sex drive slowing to pretty much zero. I was happy enough going along with things, never having sex and stupidly assumed that my bf must feel the same way.

He hasnt had a "honeymoon" period, or didnt you read his post.

Now- OP- At that age how the fúck do you have that much patience? Jeebus. You deserver good stars, name in lights, rah rah rah for that.

Look, she seems like a failry normal sort of person and so do you. The snag is she clams up everytime you broach the topic? As I said last time round, she is showing you a blatant lack of respect by showing no inclination for your feelings at all and a huge unwillingness to broach the topic. No sex, maybe, but no fingering, tonguing, sucking, rimming or anything else besides after 11 months (I'll quote myself here) "FÚCK THAT".

Let me tell you a story, one that happened to me. With the now ex three odd years and everything going AOK. So we broach the topic of anal, and yeah cool, after an initial doubt or two, went ahead. Now, roll on several months to the first big argument since the act and guess what? The fact that my partner had willingly engaged in something that she later regretted, exploded in my face with all sorts of tears and accusations leaving me thinking "what sort of immature fúckwit moron am I going out with" and I subsequently dumped her.

Now. Do you want to be in a situaiton x amount of time down the road where your GF feels like you have forced her into something and subsequently blames you for it? The fact that she wont have a conversation with you about it leads me to presume that she wont have the maturity to accept that it was her decision if she goes ahead with it and subsequently blame you, as I have already pointed out.

Dude, harsh as it is, you know her for all of five minutes in the grand scale of things. YOU OWE HER NOTHING AND YOU DESERVE BETTER THAN WHAT YOU ARE GETTING. You must believe this.

I dont understand why you are showing her so much kindness when she hasnt shown you anything at all.

K-

LegacyUser

'Dump here and don't look back!!
To you it sounds cruel now but think about it. Go long term, marry the girl, have one or two kids and then what. Be celibate for the rest of your days? Is that what you choose to have for your life.
Take it from me, if you make a fatal relationship mistake and stick with someone who is giving very little back to you in terms of affection and suffers from depression at such a young age then you deserve all the misery that's coming your way. I don't want to sound cruel but I have been in your situation, but actually had a sex life with the girl.
I married her, was great for a few years, then what you're encountering started. I went 4 years without affection, not even a hug. Same old yarn of not wanting to discuss it, depression was a major cause and I stuck it out because my wonderful woman was ill in my mind and it was my duty to be by her side, in sickness and in health. Finally I decided I couldn't live without affection and began to see someone.....this is not who I wanted to be, I'm not a deceptive person but it was either that or starve emotionally. The biggest step is telling her I want to leave a loveless relationship and move on, as in your case she assumes that no matter how loveless things are that I'm there until the bitter end.
Don't go down a similar road, some people don't see the good in others and see life as something unique to them and you are just a pawn in her life. Get out now, cry your eyes out for a few weeks and move on to someone who deserves you. You may only be here once and don't let someone else ruin it on you !!
And apologies to anyone with depression. My experience of it is one of a personal nightmare to live with and anyone who experiences it has by deepest sympathy, but it has a direct impact on everyone living with the sufferer and I would advise anyone who has a choice to avoid getting involved to do so or end up a babysitter to them for the rest of your days.
A thankless task !!!'

Wibbs

Pretty much what Kell said. Couldn't agree more.

YOU OWE HER NOTHING AND YOU DESERVE BETTER THAN WHAT YOU ARE GETTING. You must believe this.

Agreed. All you owed her, respect and patience you've given her in amounts she'll discover hard to find in another. You're getting nothing back, beyond the guilt trip she's laying on you over asking for a simple explanation of what's going on. May I respectfully add to Kell's advice and say "Fúck that" too.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote:

Pretty much what Kell said. Couldn't agree more. Agreed. All you owed her, respect and patience you've given her in amounts she'll discover hard to find in another. You're getting nothing back, beyond the guilt trip she's laying on you over asking for a simple explanation of what's going on. May I respectfully add to Kell's advice and say "Fúck that" too.

Thirding what Kell said.

Firetrap

Yep. It's looking to me like both partners want different things. The OP obviously loves his girlfriend and wants everything, including a physical relationship. Realistically, all the girlfriend wants (if she's being honest about it) is a very close friend who is conveniently a male, enables her to do couply things and is labelled as a boyfriend.

Either she has some very messed up ideas about sex (perhaps she's in need of counselling), has an extremely low sex drive or she doesn't fancy her boyfriend. She obviously dreads sex in the same way that some of us dread a trip to the dentist.

Unless she does some running for a change, he's going to have to break his heart and dump her. She can't go on running away from the problem forever.

spinandscribble

"are you in or are you out?"

your gf seems to be very blunt when it suits her and like you said she gets what she wants out of a relationship but it sounds like she doesnt give two ****s for what you think.

she has NO sex drive. she doesnt care that you do. if she did she'd be trying to fix it. she sounds like the most selfish girl i've heard of in awhile. expecting expensive gifts. pah! if you love someone you dont need gifts. i got a carebear from a charity shop for my birthday from my bf, its the thought that counts.

you deserve so much better. you sound like such a great bloke. who knows maybe you're right and you'll be 28 someday and marry the girl but she doesnt care enough about you right now. deep down i think this girl knows you should break up as you said she didnt seem too upset by the idea.

LegacyUser

'

Kell wrote:

He hasnt had a "honeymoon" period, or didnt you read his post.

Yes I did read his post and I know he didn't have a "honeymoon" period. I was describing my own situation. Like you did, with your delightful girlfriend-is-a-moron anal sex story.'