UPDATE. Still next to NO physical intimacy in relationship

LegacyUser

4 months ago, I posted this.

So we were on holidays since during the summer and had sex. Once, just barely. We got about as far as penetration (yes, yes, it's not the be-all end-all, I know penetration isn't/shouldn't be the sole focus of "sex"), at which point she decided she'd prefer to take a shower together. Which was fun and all, but not as much went on.

We've had basically no physical contact beyond kissing, hugging since then (June). This is not for lack of me trying, believe me.

We have a pretty good relationship, all other things considered. We have great trust, too. We have fun and do enjoy being together. So there's just this one or two things that bother me.

I wouldn't mind half as much if it was just a case of her wanting to take everything slow. But here we are in this otherwise full-blown relationship in which she talks openly about our "future" together and expects me to do long-term BF stuff like come/stay home from my friends or a party just to call her to say goodnight. I stay in her house with her family all the time. I splashed out (with her fully expecting me to) on many presents for her for her birthday. Basically gave her everything she wanted. Sadly, sex and physical intimacy don't seem to be things she wants. Which leaves me wanting.

Things actually don't even show a trend of improvement. They've only gotten worse as times gone on. I can't remember the last time we had any heightened physical contact. Probably june. Despite it all, I love the girl dearly. She's beautiful, sweet and I know she's someone I can trust completely.

I'm not looking for an instant turn-around into some high-octane, intercourse-filled relationship. Instead just a small step or two in the right direction would keep me sane. If I could just see the slightest trend of our sex-life improving...

I've brought it up again once or twice since this drought has lasted. She hates talking about it because she feels it's her fault and that I blame her. TBH it's getting harder and harder to honestly assure her I don't blame her. For 10 months now I've been doing my best, trying to be as patient as possible.



So it's about time I raised the issue with her once more. As usual I'm unsure as to how to put it, though. I believe that once someone says a break-up is potentially on the cards then it's game-over, regardless. If the other partner can't feel completely secure in the relationship subsequently then there's no point going out at all. So I'm looking for a way to tell her how desperate I feel about the whole thing without making it an ultimatum... any advice??
Thanks loads, ppl

Marksie

How did you broach the situation after your last thread, or did you wait until the holiday?.

king_of_inismac

You shouldn't feel guilty for wanting a normal sex life.

There are SO many reasons as to why she doesn't initiate sex, and everyone here could probably suggest a different one.

You obviously love and care for your girlfriend a lot. You NEED to sit down and talk to her about it. Not in a confrontational manner, blaming her for the lack of sex in your relationship, but at the same time you do need to emphasize that you NEED some level of physical intimacy in the relationship.

It's not an issue to let lie because its not going to get easier for you. The longer it goes on the more you will resent her for it, and the worse it will be for both of you.

Just be supportive and understanding, and be prepared to listen. The difference between good and bad relationships is not whether or not you have problems but rather how you deal with them.


Maybe approach it as follows: I love you, and I love spending time together. I want this relationship to work, but I'm a bit worried about the sex thing. I just want us to sit down ad talk about it for a while. If there's a problem I want us to work together to resolve it. etc

DublinWriter

unrollerblades2 wrote:

I've brought it up again once or twice since this drought has lasted. She hates talking about it because she feels it's her fault and that I blame her. TBH it's getting harder and harder to honestly assure her I don't blame her. For 10 months now I've been doing my best, trying to be as patient as possible.

I know what you mean. It's easy for people just to say "talk to her about it" but initially broaching the subject can be next to impossible.

There is no best opportune moment to do this; the best moment is always now in these types of situations.

From your post, it's obvious that she has a fairly low sex drive. If she really wanted to have sex, she would. It's one of the hardest things to try any make someone fundamentally change in this regard, and even if you do, you are faced with the further problem of you having to ask yourself "is she just doing it to please me only?".

I'm not sure how you two mix socially, but if you do break up over this then be prepared for her possibly to spread it around that the reason was because you just wanted sex all the time.

Best of luck.

Zillah

unrollerblades2 wrote:

She hates talking about it because she feels it's her fault and that I blame her. TBH it's getting harder and harder to honestly assure her I don't blame her.

Uh...it is her fault. You should blame her. If she's in love with you and wants to spend her future with you, but doesn't want sex of any sort with you, then there is something very wrong in her head. Maybe she was abused when she was younger and physical intimacy freaks her out, who knows. Stop acting like everything is ok; she's being completely unreasonable.

The point is, you're totally kidding yourself if you think that after all this time that a conversation will fix this. She doesn't want to sleep with you. Best case scenario is that you manage to guilt her into it.

You need to decide if you want this sexless relationship for the rest of your life. If the answer is no then break up with her, she's crazy.

Wibbs

unrollerblades2 wrote:

She hates talking about it because she feels it's her fault and that I blame her.

I may get slated for this, but it is her fault(Zillah got there before me. Curses! ). Not the sexual part per se, but the lack of engagement with you about the subject. If she doesn't start talking about this it will only get worse. It could really be any problem in a relationship, it just happens to be sexual in this case. If the communication breaks down or she keeps trotting out the excuse that you blame her then there will be trouble ahead. And it is an excuse. It's a simple way to emotionally blackmail you into avoiding the subject. Clearly it's working too, but not in the way she may want it to.

TBH it's getting harder and harder to honestly assure her I don't blame her.

The thing is no matter what you say or how often you say it, if she doesn't believe that, then you're wasting your time saying it. As I said I think it's an excuse anyway to avoid the issue.

For 10 months now I've been doing my best, trying to be as patient as possible.

If you've been acting the way you say you've been acting I think at this stage you have been very patient. I see you noted that intercourse is not the be all and end all and that's true, but that angle of thinking is a tad overdone by some. Yes it's good not to be fixated on that aspect of sex and it will make you a more considerate lover if you don't get fixated, but baby with the bathwater here. Let's be honest from a purely physical standpoint heterosexual intercourse is the endpoint of the sex act(for obvious biological reasons). If you're with a person you love all aspects including intercourse should be on the plate all things being equal. The fact that she can switch off even with foreplay is not a good sign.

I honestly think you need to be more strident about making your feelings known about this and trying to get to the bottom of what ails her. Don't take the emotional blackmail excuse either. This is for her sake as well.

Knockoff Nige

Maybe I missed it but how old are you both?

Sleepy

Mate, wake up, you don't have a girlfriend. You have a girl you play gay best friend to.

Ickle Magoo

Knockoff Nige, previous post says they are both 19...

OP, I'm failing to see how this issue isn't of your gf making as well...not only is she the one stone-walling your attempts at intimacy, she is refusing to discuss the problem she has with it.

You sound like you are breaking your back bending over to accommodate her lack of intimacy - that doesn't sound like much fun to me. You say sex isn't the be be-all & end-all of a relationship but I think it can be a relationship breaker. Everyone has needs and wants whether they be physical or emotional & they are no less important than their partners wants or needs. Most important is the ability or discuss each others differing needs & wants & compromise to meet somewhere in the middle.

Your gf has to discuss this with you, it's just not fair to expect anyone to tag along with a long-term relationship not knowing why their partner doesn't want to have sex with them. Your gf may well have deeper seated issues that she is refusing to confront or she may not be comfortable with sex before marriage or a whole heap of other things but refusing to discuss her reason is not fair on you. Having sex is normal part of the majority of peoples sex lives, you deserve an explanation why it isn't part of yours so you know if this is a permanent arangement or one that will evaporate with help or over time.

I think ultimately it's a case of getting your gf to acknowledge you are not happy with things they way they are & discussing how you (as a couple) can can move forward. You also have to consider she will not discuss or change & you will have to live with the status quo or start looking for another partner who shares your wants, needs & ability for intimacy. Best of luck.

rgunning

You seem to be putting a hell of a lot of work into this relationship responding to her needs and she isn't doing the same. A good relationship requires both people to work at it, and that ain't happening here. The important thing to identify here is if she thinks there is anything wrong with a long term relationship with no physical intimacy. there are a few scenarios here then

1) She thinks everything is hunky-dory as is, and doesn't want to change her attitude to sex. That's grand, fair play to her for sticking to her guns. However, it is painfully obvious that you are not okay with things this way. Net result: you ain't getting any from this relationship.

2) She has some genuine phobia to sex for whatever reason. If she wants to work through it, get professional help and stand by her. Things should get better.

3) If she doesn't, well - she doesn't want to put any work in to your relationship, which is not good.

One thing is for certain, playing mind games, begging for sex, or just plain waiting it out isn't going to solve anything. Talk to her. If she doesn't want to talk about issues that are important to you - well, that's almost a textbook example of a bad relationship.

TBH - and I'm probably going to get it in the neck for this - I really see this going to a break-up. Not, and I repeat, NOT over the sex, but over the fact that there is no good lines of communication between the two of you over the sticky issues. My tips for this - once you decide, do it. If she says she will change, etc. - don't reverse your decision. That is brinkmanship, threatening a break-up to get sex. And it will define your relationship from then on.

But before you decide on that - definitely give her a chance to talk . State clearly that this is important to you - not to have sex, but to have a good discussion about it that explains things and leaves you both feeling better about it.

If she doesn't want to do that - my advice: Dump (softly)

K-9

You have a very patient attitude.

It looks like there're other issues at play here. Intimacy, sexuality, low sex drive or maybe even a history of abuse.

Also, what age are you and is there a chance the girl is a virgin?

I take it though you've already asked her that. It's time for some communication now and if she's not willing to open up! soon (not just in that way) well it looks like you've invested enough time in this relationship.

king_of_inismac

The point is nobody knows why she's shying away from intimacy here. Maybe she has a low sex drive, maybe she was abused, maybe she find it painful, maybe she has trust issues. Who knows? Its not an easy thing to talk about for anyone, so you need to broach the issue carefully...

This guy doesn't want to cut and leave, he wants to fix the problem. Telling him to move on isn't healthy. If we all did that when we encountered a problem in a relationship, we'd all be single!

Sure, she's the reason that there is a problem with sex, but blaming her, condemning her etc is not going to fix the problem.

If you love her, give her a chance. Work through it with her. If she does have a very low sex drive, or some other issue that can't be changed, then at least you can leave her knowing you tried your best!

cance

Sleepy wrote:

Mate, wake up, you don't have a girlfriend. You have a girl you play gay best friend to.

exactly,

OP I've been there, save yourself some time here and get straight to the problem with her.

let me guess, you approach the subject with her as nice as possible but she gets pissed off/upset for being "blamed", rather than discussing it in a intelligent manner? so the evening ends in cuddles, i love you's and the subject is forgotten the next day?

find yourself a new partner, you shouldnt be made feel like a pervert for expecting sexual gratification in a relationship, if she has issues and refuses to discuss them, so be it, dont make them your issues by being led on.

Galadriel

I know its very hard to bring it up knowing its going to upset her, but the alternative is that you remain upset, it will only become more frustrating as time goes by; you need to sit her down and make her realise you HAVE to have this conversation, that you aren't doing it to make her feel bad but that the problem affects BOTH of you.

Tell her how you feel, tell her everything you have said here, no matter what things will not be fixed over night but if she agrees to maybe work towards becoming more intimate with you (and not just for a few weeks and then back to square one) that will give you some hope, but if she says shes happy and wants things to remain as they are then I'm afraid you have a difficult decison to make.

Good luck.

K-9

cance wrote:

exactly,
you shouldnt be made feel like a pervert for expecting sexual gratification in a relationship, if she has issues and refuses to discuss them, so be it, dont make them your issues by being led on.

And of course her gratification too. Maybe point out that you want her to be pleasured as well, it's all part of it.

purpledragon677

you have every reason to feel that way

if i would you i would sit here down tell her you love her and you love being with her but tat your kinda worried tat the spark is gone and your worried bout loosin her.

its obvious your crazy bout her and rely do love her but for a relationship to work there is gotta be honesty and if you dont tell her know it will build up worse and you mite end up sayin it in a way you dont mean

Beruthiel

I'd be interested to know if you followed my advice from last time and I'd like to know how that went?

vorbis

dude break up!

But here we are in this otherwise full-blown relationship in which she talks openly about our "future" together and expects me to do long-term BF stuff like come/stay home from my friends or a party just to call her to say goodnight. I stay in her house with her family all the time. I splashed out (with her fully expecting me to) on many presents for her for her birthday. Basically gave her everything she wanted. Sadly, sex and physical intimacy don't seem to be things she wants. Which leaves me wanting.

Was I the only one to read this piece and think control freak?! She also sounds selfish from that description. On top of this, she doesn't want to have sex with you. Sounds like she is just using you. She knows you like her and seems to be stringing you along just for the attention.

AngryBadger

How long are you in this relationship? And why are you in this relationship?

Not to say sex is all there is, but it's an important part of a healthy relationship. It sounds like she's getting what she wants, and you're not getting what you want, or at least a significant aprt of it.

Without passing comment on your gf, I have to ask, why do you just roll over and accept it when she starts crying and says she feels you blame her for this problem? I ask this because I feel that you SHOULD blame her at this point, since you've made the effort to broach and resolve the problem, and she seems to have made no effort, op top of this she EXPECTS you to do the bf thing, (i.e. as you said buying everyone presents and all that claptrap) and yet she's not willing to make the effort on her side.

To be honest, I'd have difficulty justifying a relationship like this, sicne it sounds like you're being used. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe there's something you're getting out of this which supercedes your need for sex, but if that's so, then why are you posting here?

I think you ened to be blunt with her, no backing down because she turns on the waterworks, and if she's not will to make some kind of an effort then show her the door.

Just so we're clear, "some kind of an effort" does not mean sexual favours, (although it could mean that which would be just dandy), but it most definitely SHOULD involved her talking honestly with you about this, so that the two of you can come to an agreement as to the best way to proceed in a manner that satisfies you both.

Zulu

Sleepy wrote:

Mate, wake up, you don't have a girlfriend. You have a girl you play gay best friend to.

Couldn't have put it better. She wants a friend, buddy. You are going to wake up in a few months/years and she's going to hit you with "I love you - but more like a brother. This is really hard but I think we should split up".

Ask yourself: Are you lovers?

You know what you need to do.

Talliesin

unrollerblades2 wrote:

She hates talking about it because she feels it's her fault and that I blame her. TBH it's getting harder and harder to honestly assure her I don't blame her.

From this it sounds like neither of you are happy with how things are - it's not a matter of a disagreement on where your relationship should be sexually.

I think counselling might be a good idea.

How Strange

Originally Posted by unrollerblades2
She hates talking about it because she feels it's her fault and that I blame her. TBH it's getting harder and harder to honestly assure her I don't blame her.

OP, it seems to me that either a) your gf has serious issues with intimacy and emotional or she just doesn't fancy you physically and her idea of a relationship is to have bf at her beck and call. That is not meant to be insulting to you but its something I have heard male friends say before. Namely that they have no physical intimacy with their gf's and these are people in late 20's/early 30's.

My advice, as a woman, is to sit this girl down and have a very difficult but frank discussion with her. How long can you continue playing the good (celiabte) samaritan? Frankly, I think from your post you deserve more and you have every right to expect a physical side to your relationship. It is part of the intimacy of being in a relationship along with all the things you seem to be doing together at the moment ie holidays etc

You are in your late teens/early 20's and I think you have a noble sense of duty towards this girl but it mightn't necessarily be love. If she won't discuss this issue as an adult without crying then I think you should move on and find a girl who will appreciate that you are a kind, caring but also sexual young man and who will treat you as an equal in a relationship. I think you are probably wasting your time with this girl and her crying is an immature tactic to get out of discussing having sex. Give it one last serious try but then do yourself a favour and move on. You are young so enjoy your 20's, you shouldn't have these worries at your age. There is plenty of time for this serious adult stuff later on.

Talliesin Quote:I think counselling might be a good idea.

I don't see why at 19/20 you should have to go to counselling. The awful dramatics of falling in and out of love is all part of being that age but counselling? I'm not so sure. And for what? To find out that this girl is emotionally immature and manipulative. Save your money.

Usually when you read these posts you see a fault in the OP, something they are blind to but IMO you seem like a genuinely decent, caring young person that most girls would love to have as a bf. Don't waste your life and your decency on someone who doesn't deserve you.

Talliesin

How Strange wrote:

I don't see why at 19/20 you should have to go to counselling. The awful dramatics of falling in and out of love is all part of being that age but counselling? I'm not so sure. And for what? To find out that this girl is emotionally immature and manipulative. Save your money.

Because she herself isn't happy with it and isn't able to just change.

Same reason anyone goes for counselling.

How Strange

Talliesin Quote:
Because she herself isn't happy with it and isn't able to just change.

Same reason anyone goes for counselling.

Yes, but she is quite happy to talk about their future, go on holidays, get the OP to buy presents for her family, get him to stay in away from his friends. I am cynical but I think this girl would change in a second if it suited her.

My point is that counselling will only reveal that the gf is being selfish and immature. And then what? Is she automatically going to start having a sexual relationship with the OP? I don't think so and I do suspect that the physical attraction may just not be there on her part. They are together almost a year and there is no physical intimacy. If she has issues then SHE should go to counselling but I don't see that the OP should have to go to.

I still think he is being taken for a mug and until he stands up to her and makes her act like an adult then this will continue. I would hate to think that the OP would stay in this relationship and think that this is normal.

IMO, if counselling is on the table as an option then she should go, not him. Let her get her issues sorted out but this guy has been through the ringer already trying to appease and please this girl without having to attend counselling for her issues too.

LegacyUser

'Yeah, Beruthiel, I pretty much tried what you said in the last thread. It went a lot like cance guessed:

cance wrote:

exactly,

OP I've been there, save yourself some time here and get straight to the problem with her.

let me guess, you approach the subject with her as nice as possible but she gets pissed off/upset for being "blamed", rather than discussing it in a intelligent manner? so the evening ends in cuddles, i love you's and the subject is forgotten the next day?

...As for the foreplay thing, well, I haven't even had a chance to practice it, have I?

A couple of things (that I'm sure will seem vital now that I mention them) that I forgot to mention: She's on a couple of medications that quite probably do affect her sex drive. She's on the pill due to an irregular period and is on anti-depressants since last february or so. So I guess it's probably not her fault she doesn't want the relationship to be as physical as I do.

So we had a big conversation about it last night. I told her first that I loved her, loved being with her and wanted to continue doing so. Then I told her that I was getting worried about us again. Took a few minutes for me to get it out but I tolder her it was the same old issue rearing it's head: our lack of physical anything in the relationship.

She was upset/pissed off I had brought it up again. Because she hates talking about it. Apparently she feels it sets her back to square one. She reckons her problem is that she thinks about the sex thing too much and it plays on her mind in a negative way. She thinks that if she can avoid having to even think about for long enough, then it'll happen. Because she won't have been worrying about it.

So I asked her what she gets from being with me, and what she wants from being with me. She says she gets "me" and wants just what we have now; that she's happy with what we have now. I put it to her that everything we actually get from being together, we could probably get from just being mates. After a little bit of this back and forth, cue her crying, going on about how she has so much going on right now and she's finally happy with her situation and she won't jeopardise that having to worry about the missing physical bits from our relationship. Which I suppose is fair enough. She needs to do whatever keeps her happy, just like I need to. Apart from not wanting sex etc, she's got a pretty sound attitude toward relationships; which is to suit oneself.

At this point I could feel it all getting hopeless and saw the end nearing. I asked her if she saw her feelings on the issue changing and she said she didn't know. She says she doesn't know how she feels about the sex thing and she can't guarantee she'll know how she feels. That basically I'll just have to plough ahead into the dark, as it were, not knowing where the relationship is really going. Basically what it boils down to is that she obviously expects me to take a gamble; a leap of faith so to speak, to wait and see if she turns out in the future to actually want anything resembling a sex life. I guess she thinks it would prove my devotion to or love for her or some **** like that.

I said I guessed we really wanted different things. She said, so we may as well just break up, then hadn't we? I know she didn't really mean that, but at the same time, the idea didn't seem to disturb her too much or anything. Which I guess is fair enough.

I don't know exactly what happened after that point, I got all teary-eyed at the idea of breaking up right then. I thought; "It'll definitely happen for us. How can it not? I love this girl. It'd be foolish to throw this away when we surely will ultimately have a great sex life." She asked me repeatedly if I was unhappy with us. She put this question to me like she meant "are you happy or not - are you in or are you out?". I told her I was happy on the whole, yes. But that some of the time this made me unhappy. That I could definitely stand to be happier. As soon as I told her about it making me not happy some of the time, she hugged me and told me she was sorry. I guess at that point I knew we weren't breaking up. I said "It'll definitely happen for us, right?" She said "yeah."


As of now I don't know how I feel. I know that I no longer have the right to bitch and moan about the lack of physical intimacy we have, because she laid it all right out there for me; told me she probably wasn't going to change anytime soon. And yet I stayed with her. So whatever I'm putting myself through is 100% my own witting doing, now.

But I still have doubts. I'm 20 years old. I probably shouldn't be in a long termer anyway. I feel like this is the girl I should have met when I'm 25 or 26. When we're both fully grown and she's ready to have an adult relationship. Not when I'm 20.

I know people are gonna tell me I'm a weak idiot for not breaking it off there and then. What can I say? Some kind of silly romantic notion entered my head for a brief period there during the argument last night. Even though I'm unhopeful, I wanna see this one through 'till I know there's no hope. 'Till I know I did everything I could. That way I can walk away with no doubts or regrets.

Any opinion on how I handled that? Advice on how to proceed?
Thanks again'

How Strange

OP, I've said before that you are obviously a very noble and good person. But I think the writing is on the wall for this. You are afraid to break up with her but you've had the talk, she isn't going to change and she knows you are more into her than she is into you so you won't walk away too easily. Hence why she brought up the issue of breaking up.

It's your decision now. No-one can give you anymore advice really. You can stay in that situation or you can leave.

Good luck no matter what you decide.

Mr. Incognito

20! Dude I'd be gone out that door so fast. Leave her sort her own stuff out. You can't "fix" your girlfriend, mate, go enjoy a normal healthy relationship because she's pulling your strings like a puppet.

Zulu

unrollerblades2 wrote:

She was upset/pissed off I had brought it up again. Because she hates talking about it. Apparently she feels it sets her back to square one. She reckons her problem is that she thinks about the sex thing too much and it plays on her mind in a negative way. She thinks that if she can avoid having to even think about for long enough, then it'll happen. Because she won't have been worrying about it.

Sure that'll work, why didn't anyone else think about that - it's all so simple! Just ignore the problem, bury your head in the sand, and everything will be ok! Classic.
OP the only way this problem will resolve itself is when you finally sum up the courage to leave.
You are not being a helpless romantic by sticking around, you are just proving to her that you are a push over. Sometime further down the line she'll meet someone who won't take her crap and she'll fall head over heals for him. They'll have a great sex life, and you'll be left picking up the pieces.

I'll ask you again - are you lovers? or are you friends?

cance

Its like this mate,

She doesnt want to have it, you do. If you try to convince her into it, or she see's the debate as "its sex, or its over", I'd personally feel like i was taking advantage of the girl.

You're 20 years old, and should be having some fun. It can be mighty frustrating being in this situation, i know it can. The sexual frustration alone is sucking the fun out of your relationship and often results in you resenting your partner for it.

You love this girl i know, but you have to look after yourself. There are plenty of fish in the sea, i know its cliché but there are many many more women out there that you could love just as much and find what you are you are lacking in this relationship.

Break up. She will cry, you might too and it will sting now, but this girl isn't ready for an adult intimate relationship. Who knows what will happen down the line, but break up mate she needs to realise she cant have her cake and eat it.

king_of_inismac

I think you handled the situation very well, and normally I'd advise you to wait with her in situations like this, but in this case I'd say it would be a mistake.

Imagine for a minute she came to you and said SHE had a problem with your sex life. Imagine if she said she was happy in the relationship but just wanted more sex/less sex/more oral etc. Now imagine what your reply would be.

Would you say to her, "Well I prefer things exactly the way they are, and I'm not willing to change, take it or leave it!"?

I very much doubt you would, and that's exactly what she has done. If she had at any stage suggested that she'd try to improve the situation, or ease your worries, I'd be advising you to wait with her.

You sound like a good guy who's trying to look after someone he loves, but at the same time you've got to look after yourself as well.

Best of luck,
M

Wibbs

Zulu wrote:

Sure that'll work, why didn't anyone else think about that - it's all so simple! Just ignore the problem, bury your head in the sand, and everything will be ok! Classic.

The golden oldies are the best, aren't they?

OP the only way this problem will resolve itself is when you finally sum up the courage to leave.

Bingo.

You are not being a helpless romantic by sticking around, you are just proving to her that you are a push over.

At this stage the OP has proved he's not some mindless cock on legs and has been very patient. I would be patient myself and have been in the past, but enough's enough. Her emotional blackmail guff over this issue proves to me that she's not going to change her mind. Why should she, you're going along with it.

Sometime further down the line she'll meet someone who won't take her crap and she'll fall head over heals for him. They'll have a great sex life, and you'll be left picking up the pieces.

I would put good money on that.

Dalfiatach

I had a girlfriend like this from 18-20. I eventually left, because as everyone else has been trying to tell you: this girl knows she has you wrapped around her finger. She knows you are a decent and noble old-fashioned gentleman who doesn't want to break up with her over a lack of sex, because that's the kind of thing asshole scumbags do, right? She can, and will, string you along for years. And in the meantime she has a "boyfriend", as in someone to take her out and buy her presents and make her feel good, but she really doesn't have to make any real commitment to the relationship.

After I eventually saw sense and got the hell out of that relationship. And it was only long afterwards that I realised just how false, manipulative, and downright negative a relationship it was for me, for my self-esteem and sense of what a "normal" relationship was.

A few years later me and the lads were having one of those 4am drunken chats and the subject of mad old girlfriends came up, and this particular ex of mine cropped up. Within weeks of us finishing she had slept with at least 3 fellas I knew, including one of the lads there. He was amazed to learn that in the 2 years we were together we'd never had sex - he didn't know that at all at the time he was with her. Nobody knew at the time, because everyone just assumed that a couple in a 2-year relationship were, well, doing all the normal things that long-term couples do.

OP, sorry to say it but you are being used and taken for a mug. Trust me, been there, and you only think you "love" this girl. Yeah, you enjoy spending time with her, but in reality she's just a good friend, not a real girlfriend. And part of it is the fuzzy feeling you get from the sense of noble chivalrous self-sacrifice. Don't get me wrong, it's a generally good thing and the world needs people like us - but you have to learn that some people in this world can spot the old Martyr Complex a mile off and rip the total piss out of it, and you'll be too busy feeling all good about yourself for selflessly helping others to realise what a mug yer being.

End it. Right now. Before you do terminal damage to both your self-esteem, ability to stand up for yourself, and your ability to ever conduct a mature adult relationship with another woman. If you don't, you'll spend the rest of your life being a doormat to a succession of selfish, self-absorbed, out-for-what-they-can-get girlfriends, friends, co-workers and bosses.

Fysh

By all accounts this doesn't sound like a fun situation to be in.

The long and the short of it is, she doesn't particularly want to have sex and you do. Neither of you is "wrong" for this; you're at your peak physically speaking, meaning your hormones are probably shouting and screaming for you to try and stick it in anything that moves while she's got a totally different hormonal issue going on due to the combination of the pill and her anti-depressants.

If you're happy with this situation, then by all meas continue with it. But it's not going to be easy for you - your sexual urges aren't going to go away, and you're going to have to deal with them. You may find yourself starting to think about other girls more often, you may find yourself becoming friendly with girls who are interested in you but don't have the low sex drive of your girlfriend. I'm not encouraging this in the slightest, I'm just pointing out that these are ways that unhappiness with your sex life can manifest themselves, and they're hard enough to deal with when you haven't realised what the problem is - I can't imagine them being any easier to deal with if you know ahead of time what your problem is.

It sounds to me like you need to knock this relationship on the head. It's not wrong to have a sex drive; it's admirable that you feel such strong commitment to your girlfriend and have avoided descending into a blaming match. But fundamentally, you're not happy with your sex life and that is the part of a relationship that distinguishes between a close friend and a lover - if you don't have any physical intimacy or she can't, for whatever reason, commit to the idea of being physically intimate with you then there are going to be certain barriers to emotional commitment and it won't end well.

Another point to consider - sex is not something that's perfect first time round. One of the fun things about it is practising to figure out what works, what doesn't, what you like and what you don't. Are you really willing to postpone learning anything much about sex on the hope that the first time you have sex with your girlfriend, it's enjoyable for you both?

In short, Sleepy got it right - you're basically the fag to her fag hag.

ali.c

Yeah i would be in agreement with most of the people on here. It would be one thing if she realised that she had an issue that was causing you unhappiness and decided to work through it with you, however slowly. Now it may be that she doesnt feel ready for a sexual relationship (not everyone is at that age) but then you shouldnt hang around waiting for her to be ready i think you have been patient enough already.

LegacyUser

I'm going unregged for this as I feel I can somewhat identify with OP's gf. I've been in a fantastic relationsip for almost 5 years and my problem has been that after the initial honeymoon period had worn off I found my sex drive slowing to pretty much zero. I was happy enough going along with things, never having sex and stupidly assumed that my bf must feel the same way.

Obviously, he didn't and we talked about it on a few occasions. It was upsetting, I felt under pressure but I ultimately realised that this is not the kind of problem that will just go away if you don't think about it. Differing sex drives isn't exactly any one person's fault, but having no sex drive whatsoever IS a problem and it was something I needed to work on. It's happened slowly, but things are much better now.

I'm sorry to say, but OP's gf saying that if the problem isn't mentioned and if she doesn't have to think about it, then things will just happen naturally is a complete and utter cop-out. It doesn't work like that. Nothing in this life works like that. Burying your head in the sand and expecting everything to magically sort itself out? No, she needs to work at this. Upsetting as it may be to talk about it, she needs to. You seem like a really genuine, understanding guy so she should know you're not looking for miracles instantly. But unless she's willing to show that she's making some effort, you're headed for trouble.

Also, and I'm sure you've realised this as well OP, she now seems to have you in a position where you'll be made to feel like a monster for ever approaching this subject again. I don't want my advice to be to break up, but ye have a serious problem which she's choosing to ignore, so I don't really know what else you can do.

Good luck!

Bottle_of_Smoke

She sounds manipulative. Did you actually have sex on holiday's? Sounds a bit like she wants to lose her virginity to someone else. Like someone who wouldn't put up with her frigidness. It's a gamble I know.

I'd take note of Dalfiatach's post. Seems to have very similar experience.

One emotion that really speeds things up is jealousy. Can be destructive but if I were you I'd start looking for extrememly good looking female friends.

Galadriel

As she has told you where she stands on the subject and you agreed to stay with her...theres nothing more you can really do, as someone else said you can't really bring it up again (well not for a while anyway) as she was pretty honest with you, but if you are already doubting your decision (so shortly after your talk) it doesn't sound to me like you will be able to put it out of your head and thats understandable, nobody can tell you whether to break up with her or not....you are the only one that can decide that, don't do anything rash and have a good think about it before doing/deciding anything.

Talliesin

How Strange wrote:

Yes, but she is quite happy to talk about their future, go on holidays, get the OP to buy presents for her family, get him to stay in away from his friends.

Why shouldn't she be.

Having an issue with something doesn't obligate you to refuse to talk about your future, go on holidays, etc.

pretty-in-pink

Shes probably scared, and might be playing mind games.
I would thinks shes either a) gonna sleep with some guy who will use her. or b) shes one of those "waiting till I'm married" kind.

Try a little gentle foreplay- start with stroking, massage, feathery kisses etc, build her up, and then leave her hanging. do it a few times, she'll start to really want to take things further, and eventually it will lead to sex. (in theroy, I can't promise anything)

If you love her, and everything else is great, then try it. and 20, thats not to young for a long termer. I was in one, from 18 to 22. and chances are we'll get back together in the near future. don't let some stupid hang-up ruin something you enjoy.

dRNk SAnTA

OP, from reading your two threads it looks like your relationship has actually regressed! you were at least engaging in foreplay before! look, she obviously has some issues that she needs to deal with, it shouldn't be your burden to wait around and buy her presents. Maybe when you break up with her she'll tell you whats really going on - either way get out of there and don't think about coming back until she's got a michael douglas-esque sex drive.

Talliesin

unrollerblades2 wrote:

She was upset/pissed off I had brought it up again. Because she hates talking about it. Apparently she feels it sets her back to square one. She reckons her problem is that she thinks about the sex thing too much and it plays on her mind in a negative way. She thinks that if she can avoid having to even think about for long enough, then it'll happen. Because she won't have been worrying about it.

To me this sounds like running away from the problem then dressing it up as actually attempting to deal with it.

unrollerblades2 wrote:

I guess she thinks it would prove my devotion to or love for her or some **** like that.

I hope not. Crap like that is very dangerous.

You prove your love to people through how you actually get on in your life with them, not through silly tests.

unrollerblades2 wrote:

It'll definitely happen for us. How can it not?

Because this is the real world, and there's nothing certain in your life except for death.

unrollerblades2 wrote:

As of now I don't know how I feel. I know that I no longer have the right to bitch and moan about the lack of physical intimacy we have, because she laid it all right out there for me; told me she probably wasn't going to change anytime soon. And yet I stayed with her. So whatever I'm putting myself through is 100% my own witting doing, now.

Never mind about bitching and moaning - that solves nothing. Do however pay attention to actually doing something.

If she wanted to refrain from certain sexual acts until married then fair enough - you'd know where you stood and could decide how you were going to deal with that.

However, this is all airy-fairy and it isn't going to be anything else until she deals with it.

She claims to want (eventually) a type of relationship that her actions are making impossible. Acting in a way counter to your own desires is about as good definition of pathological behaviour as you can get.

It's not going to all get fixed by magic. It's going to get fixed by her taking action to fix it, or deciding that she wants things to stay as they are forever (at which point she no longer has a problem - she's getting what she wants - and you can just move on).

zoro

cance wrote:

She doesnt want to have it, you do. If you try to convince her into it, or she see's the debate as "its sex, or its over", I'd personally feel like i was taking advantage of the girl.

I think one of his problems at the moment, is that this is exactly what he believes she will think if he keeps bringing the topic up.

Not a nice situation to be in

McGinty

Hi Op

There is some fantastic advice given here, but I am going to give another rather explicit opinion, basically take all the elements you have in your current relationship and combine that with a loving, wholesome, physical relationship.

Imagine that the girl you are with is looking at you with adoring eyes, a mouth that covers every part of your body, who takes delight in the pleasure you give her and the pleasure she recieves from you. Imagine that she desires you and lusts after you and tells you how wonderful she feels after you have made love, making you feel even more of a man. Add whatever desires and fantasies you have and know this right now-
YOU ARE CURRENTLY DENYING YOURSELF THIS PLEASURE AND BEAUTY.

Your girlfriend is being extremely selfish and cruel, and like what Dalfiatach said, it will erode your self esteem. I dated this lovely beautiful man who was formerly married, his wife did not like sex, he provided all like you did but she would not be intimate with him. It destroyed his self esteem, and he was gorgeous. He was so affected by her treatment that he was scared off from a loving, physical relationship. I am glad I gave him a little happiness but he was unable to accept it fully. I think it is important that you ask yourself why are you settling for so little? You are receiving crumbs when you could have a banquet. I don't think you truly know what you are missing, but I hope the day comes that you will experience exquisite physical pleasure in a loving setting, and I hope you choose it soon, don't settle for less.

Kell

unreg girl wrote:

that after the initial honeymoon period had worn off I found my sex drive slowing to pretty much zero. I was happy enough going along with things, never having sex and stupidly assumed that my bf must feel the same way.

He hasnt had a "honeymoon" period, or didnt you read his post.

Now- OP- At that age how the fúck do you have that much patience? Jeebus. You deserver good stars, name in lights, rah rah rah for that.

Look, she seems like a failry normal sort of person and so do you. The snag is she clams up everytime you broach the topic? As I said last time round, she is showing you a blatant lack of respect by showing no inclination for your feelings at all and a huge unwillingness to broach the topic. No sex, maybe, but no fingering, tonguing, sucking, rimming or anything else besides after 11 months (I'll quote myself here) "FÚCK THAT".

Let me tell you a story, one that happened to me. With the now ex three odd years and everything going AOK. So we broach the topic of anal, and yeah cool, after an initial doubt or two, went ahead. Now, roll on several months to the first big argument since the act and guess what? The fact that my partner had willingly engaged in something that she later regretted, exploded in my face with all sorts of tears and accusations leaving me thinking "what sort of immature fúckwit moron am I going out with" and I subsequently dumped her.

Now. Do you want to be in a situaiton x amount of time down the road where your GF feels like you have forced her into something and subsequently blames you for it? The fact that she wont have a conversation with you about it leads me to presume that she wont have the maturity to accept that it was her decision if she goes ahead with it and subsequently blame you, as I have already pointed out.

Dude, harsh as it is, you know her for all of five minutes in the grand scale of things. YOU OWE HER NOTHING AND YOU DESERVE BETTER THAN WHAT YOU ARE GETTING. You must believe this.

I dont understand why you are showing her so much kindness when she hasnt shown you anything at all.

K-

LegacyUser

'Dump here and don't look back!!
To you it sounds cruel now but think about it. Go long term, marry the girl, have one or two kids and then what. Be celibate for the rest of your days? Is that what you choose to have for your life.
Take it from me, if you make a fatal relationship mistake and stick with someone who is giving very little back to you in terms of affection and suffers from depression at such a young age then you deserve all the misery that's coming your way. I don't want to sound cruel but I have been in your situation, but actually had a sex life with the girl.
I married her, was great for a few years, then what you're encountering started. I went 4 years without affection, not even a hug. Same old yarn of not wanting to discuss it, depression was a major cause and I stuck it out because my wonderful woman was ill in my mind and it was my duty to be by her side, in sickness and in health. Finally I decided I couldn't live without affection and began to see someone.....this is not who I wanted to be, I'm not a deceptive person but it was either that or starve emotionally. The biggest step is telling her I want to leave a loveless relationship and move on, as in your case she assumes that no matter how loveless things are that I'm there until the bitter end.
Don't go down a similar road, some people don't see the good in others and see life as something unique to them and you are just a pawn in her life. Get out now, cry your eyes out for a few weeks and move on to someone who deserves you. You may only be here once and don't let someone else ruin it on you !!
And apologies to anyone with depression. My experience of it is one of a personal nightmare to live with and anyone who experiences it has by deepest sympathy, but it has a direct impact on everyone living with the sufferer and I would advise anyone who has a choice to avoid getting involved to do so or end up a babysitter to them for the rest of your days.
A thankless task !!!'

Wibbs

Pretty much what Kell said. Couldn't agree more.

YOU OWE HER NOTHING AND YOU DESERVE BETTER THAN WHAT YOU ARE GETTING. You must believe this.

Agreed. All you owed her, respect and patience you've given her in amounts she'll discover hard to find in another. You're getting nothing back, beyond the guilt trip she's laying on you over asking for a simple explanation of what's going on. May I respectfully add to Kell's advice and say "Fúck that" too.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote:

Pretty much what Kell said. Couldn't agree more. Agreed. All you owed her, respect and patience you've given her in amounts she'll discover hard to find in another. You're getting nothing back, beyond the guilt trip she's laying on you over asking for a simple explanation of what's going on. May I respectfully add to Kell's advice and say "Fúck that" too.

Thirding what Kell said.

Firetrap

Yep. It's looking to me like both partners want different things. The OP obviously loves his girlfriend and wants everything, including a physical relationship. Realistically, all the girlfriend wants (if she's being honest about it) is a very close friend who is conveniently a male, enables her to do couply things and is labelled as a boyfriend.

Either she has some very messed up ideas about sex (perhaps she's in need of counselling), has an extremely low sex drive or she doesn't fancy her boyfriend. She obviously dreads sex in the same way that some of us dread a trip to the dentist.

Unless she does some running for a change, he's going to have to break his heart and dump her. She can't go on running away from the problem forever.

spinandscribble

"are you in or are you out?"

your gf seems to be very blunt when it suits her and like you said she gets what she wants out of a relationship but it sounds like she doesnt give two ****s for what you think.

she has NO sex drive. she doesnt care that you do. if she did she'd be trying to fix it. she sounds like the most selfish girl i've heard of in awhile. expecting expensive gifts. pah! if you love someone you dont need gifts. i got a carebear from a charity shop for my birthday from my bf, its the thought that counts.

you deserve so much better. you sound like such a great bloke. who knows maybe you're right and you'll be 28 someday and marry the girl but she doesnt care enough about you right now. deep down i think this girl knows you should break up as you said she didnt seem too upset by the idea.

LegacyUser

'

Kell wrote:

He hasnt had a "honeymoon" period, or didnt you read his post.

Yes I did read his post and I know he didn't have a "honeymoon" period. I was describing my own situation. Like you did, with your delightful girlfriend-is-a-moron anal sex story.'