Ireland vs Namibia

thebaz

what worries me the most is the staleness and lack of energy of the pack -- where is the munster fire -- leamy , easterby , o'connell , o'callaghan are worringly letheragic -- and playing a wounded france in france , is going to be difficult for any team , all blacks included -- worrying times

K-9

thebaz wrote:

what worries me the most is the staleness and lack of energy of the pack -- where is the munster fire -- leamy , easterby , o'connell , o'callaghan are worringly letheragic -- and playing a wounded france in france , is going to be difficult for any team , all blacks included -- worrying times

Where was the passion and unpredictability of Irish teams in the 2nd half. Oh wait, it was there, except the Namibians had it! Who won the second half?

The two tries (disregarding the others) in the first half, where moments
of individual brilliance. And oh yeah, Trimble's, another Ulsterman, Stephen McDonnell would have been proud off!

Anyway, looking on the positive side, maybe that's the kick up the back side they need. Less believing the hype and going out and doing it. Maybe they believed the tries would come eventually and that the intensity of the tackles would die off. The intensity they experienced may work for them! Says he, grasping at straws!

komodosp

Watching the panel before the match on TV3, I had the awful feeling something like this might happen, or worse (e.g. we wouldn't get the bonus point, or lose!)... all this "We'll win by 50 - 80 points" stuff, taking things for granted, like the Namibians will fall asunder in the 2nd half, then the tries will start racking up... This is what I'd say got us into this mess in the first place.

Now everyone's saying, "apply a bit of pressure on the french and the crowd will turn on them", I'm not so sure that'll happen... No doubt, the French themselves know about this if we do, and the French media will be giving out about it.. Sure enough in the match against Ireland, the crowd will see the error of their ways and become loyal and roar support of their team in spite of our pressure... And imagine our shock as the French don't collapse before our feet...

GuffFromSwine

People seem to be using the comparison of Sebastian Chabal as a complement to Neil Best...to be honest, I think he is the Irish Chabal, insofar as he's a decent player hyped to a ludicrous degree by the press and his long hair.

GuffFromSwine

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

Firstly on current form I would take Boss any day over Stringer, Redden isn't experienced enough at international level and Stringer has been simply put shockingly bad as of late.

Here look, Stringer had a pretty good game today apart from that pass to O'Connell's ankles.Second of all, Reddan is a vastly superior player to Boss, the reason he's not picked ahead of the mullet-haired weirdo is because he plays in england and EOS is stll giving Boss a chance based on his good showing in his first couple of internaitonal. Reddan is a far better player than boss, end of. As for experience, I don't see Isaac boss with 50 caps behind him or in front of him. Lastly, Horgan will play irrespective of what you consider match fitness. he's a wing not a prop and its not like he's been out for six months. Hickies form recently has been amazing, everybody makes mistakes and has off days. So basically the first choice Irish XV hasn't (and should'nt) change apart from possibly Flannery coming in at hooker and a bit of Reddan on the bench.

il gatto

Apart from all the handling errors, the biggest concern I have was the lack of passion and aggression. It's fine if you start easy and get a shock, like Australia, Wales, Scotland and all, but the fact is, the problem was not rectified.
The lack of leadership on the field was striking. BOD was never seen to be shouting at anyone, either in complaint or encouragement, and I really expected O'Connell to have a team meeting to get them going during one of Namibia's conversions. It just looked like a bemused team bumbling through a match.
We were late to almost every ruck. That is one of O'Callaghan's biggest strenghts, but he was conspicuous by his absence/lateness. Best should have replaced him or Easterby who just didn't make the grade either.
Rory Best is there for his scrummaging, but TBH, Flannery is more likely to bust a hole in the game line, and we needed that sort of momentum earlier.
Pointless bringing on Murphy that late. I'm not saying he's better than Hickey, he's not. But there was an excuse (tonsillitus/bang on head) and we needed some fresh ideas.
Reddan is there as cover. There's no way he'll see the pitch, unless something drastic happens to both scrum halves. I like Boss, but I feel he takes too much out of the ball, including an extra step away from the ruck, and his passing is slower and usually more inaccurate than Stringer (not today, granted). Having said that, he scares the opposition with uncertainty of what he'll do, and he's exciting to watch. NO way EOS will use Reddan as he is totally untried as part of the national squad. His time will come next year I feel.

BangBeater

They were like bored professionals out to a job last night, one which they didn't seem to want to do at all.

There was no passion or fire at all!

We are in no way doubting their ability... We know they are able to perform much, much better than this .

This is the same reasoning for the bad games against the Scots & Italians.

Complacency against these 'initially-thought-of' as shi-te teams is another reasoning behind the shi-te games against Scot/Italy/Namibia.

Of course there will be an improvement against Georgia, France & Argentina. So everyone, do not press the panic buttons just yet.

zAbbo

Whoa, lots of experts here, and soccer style comments.

My thoughts, obviously a poor performance, handling errors and poor decisions.

Making wholesale changes in the next game won't help, We know our best team and combinations, the only 2 questions I feel are at hooker and blindside.

Poor performance, draw a line underneath it and move on. Most of our top players haven't played top level rugby in 6 months, see we need the next game to shake off the cobwebs.

I'm still confident come France & Argentina we'll be ready.

redmca

No argument with the general mood of the comments - Ireland collectively were woeful, but like George W was once quoted as saying "the future is all in front of us ...."

And ...... Most people reckon Georgia are a better side than Namibia. Lets see what happens tomorrow with Arg v Georgia. I expect Georgia to give a really good account of themselves. The Argies will win (of course) but they have to come down a bit from the high of Friday night and I would not assume a bonus point as guaranteed.

Then we get a go at Georgia 4 days later, surely a big advantage for us. If we can make mincemeat of them, and I believe we will, then we are back on course.

BangBeater

Oh & with all our "expert" criticism, maybe we can find the time to actually congratulate Namibia on an excellent performance by any standards.

Linford

Hickie was poor last night, but I think it is a bit much to be writing off one of Ireland's most consistent players, especially after he got a knock on the head. Remember our terrible game against Scotland in the six nations and Italy in Ravenhill? Hickie was one of Ireland's best players in those matches, a player doesn't become bad overnight...

Frankly I think the people looking for silver linings are being over optimistic imo. The breakdown area really worried me as did Wallace's performance. The Namibians beat us at the breakdown more and more as the game went on. I dont even want to imagine what a quality back row would have done to us. We're supposed to have a quality backrow bt based on last nights performance we're too slow.

Wallace is only just returning from injury and it showed last night. Now we're in deep **** because if Wallace doesnt play who plays 7? Easterby? Leamy? Ferris? Quinlan? none of those guys in my opinion are gonna get the better of any of the top backrows if used as a 7. The best candidate there imo is Leamy but we need him at 8. If Jennins was fit he'd be a godsend, I felt at the time that the omission of Gleeson was a mistake and I think it will show in the bigger games. We're gonna be too slow to the breakdown against the likes of France and New Zealand and possibly even Argentina. Dont have to worry about SA or Oz cos the be honest we're not gonna be playing them.

I read the Indo yesterday and Wallace said the team had been doin a lot of extra pratice working on lineouts to secure quality possession and set up the platform for a big score...........need I say any more about this?!!


People I think got carried away with victories over a very weak C side of South Africas and an Aussie side which played numerous playes out of position and left some key players at home. I think this over confidence has crept into the team as well.

The only silver lining is the bonus point, the performance makes me very worried. We'll see how we go against Georgia but to be frank I think we're gonna be outmuscled by the bigger teams and our lack of speed at the breakdown really concerns me.

zAbbo

Georgia are good enough 1-8, not much in the backs, that game is on tonight 7pm( 3 day turnaround for Argentina, now thats planning )

The so-called weaker nations, usually put it up for the first game, by the time Argentina and France play Namibia, it will be cricket scores.

BangBeater

BangBeater wrote:

Oh & with all our "expert" criticism, maybe we can find the time to actually congratulate Namibia on an excellent performance by any standards.

Here here. I felt very sorry for them, I was concerned on the 65 minute mark that they were gonna push on and win the game, they were only 10 points down and really were playing all the rugby. Fair play to them.

daveirl

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zAbbo

Tomorrow night it is

The points thing is out the window imo, but you never know what will happen.

Fair play to Namibia, some decent forwards in there, especially Jacques Berger - the abbrasive no.8 who was awesome.

Marshy

Linford wrote:

Hickie was poor last night, but I think it is a bit much to be writing off one of Ireland's most consistent players, especially after he got a knock on the head. Remember our terrible game against Scotland in the six nations and Italy in Ravenhill? Hickie was one of Ireland's best players in those matches, a player doesn't become bad overnight...

He had a shocker in that game as I remember.

zAbbo

Marshy wrote:

He had a shocker in that game as I remember.

I was at the game, and he was probably our most inventive back, he does a look of work off the ball, in terms of movement and positioning. Not his fault in that game that the ball didn't get past first receiver.

gosplan

I dunno if this whole points difference thing is as big a deal as people make it.

Firstly it will only come into play if Ireland, Argentina and France all get 4 tries against Georgia & Namabia. I'll grant that this is likely to happen but Argentina getting 4 against Georgia tomorrow? They must still be wrecked from the France game.

Then, assuming we lose to France, we need to get a bonus point.

Then, assuming we beat Argentina, they need to get a bonus point.

If we get 4 tries against Argentina it's also out the window.

Sure it's posible it'll come up but I wouldn't worry too much about it. Form and winning games is a much bigger concern.

kevpants

Hickie's not the problem. He was concussed after that tackle. Have a look at it on Youtube. He got hit dead on and he went down limp. You aren't right after that and he was only left on becasue if you take him off early you'll be asked questions around concussion. If he is found to be concussed there's a mandatory three week lay off. EOS just decided we'd get by without him at his best, I mean it was only Namibia!

I posted this in another thread and it may have been a bit off topic but does alot of this not rest on O'Gara's shoulders. He dictates our play ging forward and surely when he saw the Namibian rushed defence he should have opted to kick in behind them and get them scampering backwards. Surely this would have kept them guessing? All O'Gara did was fling it out the line EVERY time. Even inside the 22. Surely Paddy Wallace with all his faults would have been capable of better?

prospect

Not a regular poster on this forum, but a rugby fan.

I have read most of this thread and cannot believe the defeatist attitude here. Ranting and raving and overreacting is pointless imo.

My thoughts on the match:

- The preliminary warm up matchs mean NOTHING. They are warm-ups. A time for experimenting with positions, assessing match fitness and generally assessing the team and options. Only those who put the teams on the pitch know exactly what they were looking for in those matches, and as a result they also only know if they learned anything or were successful with anything.

- Namibia played very well and deserved to get that result.

- Namibia came into this as one of the lowest (if not THE lowest) ranking teams. They had nothing to loose. Therefore their play was unpredictable, and also dificult to defend.
I once played chess against a very experience player. I know nothing about chess, and I held him in the game for a very long time, simply because he could not predict my pattern of play (there was no pattern, just random moves).

- Irelands last Try was not a try.

- I am dubious about Namibias second try, it looked like it went to touch in the play just before they got the try.

- Hickie should have been taken off earlier in the game. He was off form, and keeping him in play will do little for his confidence.

- BOD did very little as captain. I thought is leadership was non-existant. He must accept a large proportion of blame for a sub-par performance, (he is well able to accept praise when the results are good).

- EOS should be the first man out for the TV interviews, and then maybe BOD. Donacha O'C should not need to be out there explaining their performances.

- The max points are on the table, which is most important.

- Hopefully that preformance will be enough to kick the guys into respecting the smaller teams, and as a result up the game for Georgia.

- I think we will rise to the occasion against France, I reckon Argentina will be our toughest match.

Sorry for the long post.

P

daveirl

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Crash

Did anyone notice Hickie and Trimble being oddly positioned for wingers a lot of the time by the way? some of the places they were coming in at and general positioning was very odd.

kevpants

daveirl wrote:

No there isn't. You can just get it checked by a doctor and be allowed to play. There was no excuse for keeping him on the field.

Ummm. Yes there is:
http://www.irb.com/mm/document/lawsregs/0/060924gfirbregulation10%5f881.pdf

Unless you can pay off a doctor to write a dodgy medical report which would result in worse I'd imagine. If he was checked for concussion he'd be out for three weeks.

Crash

10.1.2 Subject to sub-clause 10.3 below, the three week period may be reduced
only if the Player is symptom free and declared fit to play after appropriate
assessment by a properly qualified and recognised neurological specialist.
Such declaration must be recorded in a written report prepared by the
properly qualified and recognised neurological specialist who carried out
the assessment of the Player.

surely that would mean that if properly assessed, there's no problem with the player playing if a neurological specialist is willing to ok it?

grant it not as easy as dave put it across, but still

chris85

Mandatory three week rule does happen if player gets concussed for any reason. Even if checked by a doctor the player is out for three weeks.

Hickie was bad but he could have been concussed after that hit sure he wasnt even moving. He had a bad night but dont rule him out just for one match. He has been on of Ireland's most reliable guys recently.

The problem against Namibia was that we couldn't get the basics right. Very little of O'Gara kicking the corners for touch which is a strategy that suits Ireland. Even when he did go for the corners he couldn't find them. all ireland needed to do was swing it out wide most of the time and they were in but they did not bother.

Penalty try was fair but not sure on Ireland's last try, dont think that was in but either way these calls always happen and is part of the game so doesn't matter.

kevpants

Yeah it's possible to get it reduced but it's common practice for coaches to try and avoid the disruption or even to ahve the player limp off or have an ice pack on his shoulder or some other smoke screen

chris85

Yeah but they usually get assessed soon after when they aint ok so not usually reduced. Hickie should probably be rested next week to be safe but its very unlikely that the 3 week rule gets reduced, and also teams will not take the chance

walshb

Well I watched Ireland win and though not their finest ever display, I think the opposition were very good. I know they are NOT rated high, but their ball handling was very good and they were extremely powerful and physical.
Hickie had an absolute nightmare but the commentators barely mentioned it. It was his worst performance from what I have seen

daveirl

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