Bike Theft - What can we do...

kmick

So I cycle to work daily. Currently I own a midrange mountain bike with two very sturdy locks (a 50 quid u lock and one of those metal chain link ones for the front wheel) and it is parked in a monitored area in the center of the Central hotel there by the bleeding horse.

I have previously had two bikes stolen from the area I park my bike. First time crappy lock second time they obviously just really wanted the bike as it was a good ulock.

Now even though I am happy that my current bike is reasonably safe EVERY day a bike is stolen from that monitored area by a group of young lads. I have seen them skulking through on 900 euro bikes looking for bikes to rob. This makes me VERY mad. Not only have they stolen two of my bikes but they continue to do so with immunity daily where they find a good bike with a poor lock.

So here is my question. I reported the last bike as stolen to the guards but never heard back. Is it worth reporting this group of lads to the police. They would have to do some sort of a stakeout but would catch these guys within 1 or 2 days with a honeypot bike and crappy lock.

Is there any point even asking the gardai to do this? What are the other options open to me? Do i just ignore the problem now that my bike is safe (ish).

Dont bother answering this thread if you dont have a good suggestion. I dont want to hear about beating them up etc.

Raam

maybe you could try catching them on a video camera if possible?

ondafly

I would report it to the Gardai - however they will probably just patrol it a bit more for a time, and then it will go back to normal.

I worked in an office burlington road. At least once per week, if not 3 or 4 times, every lunchtime different people would casually walk in and take bikes (these were always locked). The ended up having to install a cage for the bikes, which each bike user was given a key to access. However it didn't stop there - the scum were able to get their hands through the bars of the cage, and cut all the brake cables. I've since left that job, so don't know if its improved.

Much the same happens every now and again at my apartments, and I've caught the guys (kids really) on 2 occassions, and called the gardai etc. It doesn't deter them though.

kmick

King Raam wrote:

maybe you could try catching them on a video camera if possible?

Unlinkely I could but even if I did I doubt it would help. You have to catch these guys in the act. Plus there is cameras all over the area if the gardai were interested they could have got their hands on this before now.

I am tempted just to leave it but feel there must be more I can do. I think the best thing to do would be write them a letter cc'ing the Minister for Justice and se what kind of response I get. Doubtless it will be a canned response.

Funny thing is one of the security guards I was friendly with says all sorts come in to steal bikes. He caught a guy in a suit trying to nick a bike one day and just chased him away.

Ghost Rider

If you're going to contact a minister, make it the Minister for the Environment, John Gormley. He's a cyclist, at least. He also lives in Ringsend, where I imagine he's had to learn a thing or two about bicycle security.

kmick wrote:

Unlinkely I could but even if I did I doubt it would help. You have to catch these guys in the act. Plus there is cameras all over the area if the gardai were interested they could have got their hands on this before now.

I am tempted just to leave it but feel there must be more I can do. I think the best thing to do would be write them a letter cc'ing the Minister for Justice and se what kind of response I get. Doubtless it will be a canned response.

Funny thing is one of the security guards I was friendly with says all sorts come in to steal bikes. He caught a guy in a suit trying to nick a bike one day and just chased him away.

kmick

Ghost Rider wrote:

If you're going to contact a minister, make it the Minister for the Environment, John Gormley. He's a cyclist, at least. He also lives in Ringsend, where I imagine he's had to learn a thing or two about bicycle security.

Good idea - a major dent could be made in this problem in Dublin by employing 2 gardai full time to do honeypot busts. Im sure it is the same 100 people stealing bikes in the Capital.

daymobrew

kmick wrote:

Now even though I am happy that my current bike is reasonably safe EVERY day a bike is stolen from that monitored area by a group of young lads. I have seen them skulking through on 900 euro bikes looking for bikes to rob. This makes me VERY mad. Not only have they stolen two of my bikes but they continue to do so with immunity daily where they find a good bike with a poor lock.

Doesn't sound very well monitored.

kmick wrote:

So here is my question. I reported the last bike as stolen to the guards but never heard back. Is it worth reporting this group of lads to the police. They would have to do some sort of a stakeout but would catch these guys within 1 or 2 days with a honeypot bike and crappy lock.

Is there any point even asking the gardai to do this? What are the other options open to me? Do i just ignore the problem now that my bike is safe (ish).

I recommend reporting the issue to the Gardai. Maybe see if the station has a Community section, they are interested in building positive relationships with people in their area and are often the ones you see on bicycles. The Gardai may already know the scum. When my residents association meet our Community Gardai, they keep us up to date on the activities of those in the "known to the Gardai" file.

Another idea is to take a photo of them, print it out with a warning to others who park in the area. Hopefully it will make people more vigilant and maybe let the scum know that they are known.

Finally, while it won't prevent a loss, I recommend getting house contents insurance with your bike listed on it. At least you won't be too much out of pocket if the scum get your current bike.

cunnins4

I know ya said not to mention violence, but if i ever caught the fvcker that robbed my pride and joy i'd knock the crap out of them.

I think the only real solution is to make your bike less attractive to steal than others. When i lock my bike on O'Connell st. (every thursday, saturday and sunday) there's ALWAYS an easier target thankfully because my lock is pretty decent. Bad for the other guy, but good for me. The other good thing is my mtb is fairly knocked up and scratched etc...but is in great working condition. It wouldn't fetch much if they tried to sell it. I always make sure it's up high off the ground-any videos i've seen of someone using a bolt cutters to snap locks always has the lock on the ground and uses his bodyweight on the bolt cutters against the ground to snap the lock. With the lock well up off the ground it's not as easy (I hope anyway!). Not having a quick release saddle is also a simple move to prevent senseless vandalism-i learned that one the hard way (although i only lost the clamp, had the saddle with me). After that, I think we all know the risk we take in parking our bikes around town. There are scum out there and if they really want it, they will get it.

As for the gardai-honestly what can they do? There are so many bike racks around that if the gardai are upping their patrols near certain ones, there's an endless supply of them for the scum to move to. they definitely can target the little b@stards, but as stated above, they're usually young lads who get let off with a caution.

funnily enough, my pride and joy turned up in rathmines (stolen from outside cineworld on parnell st.) in an absolute state. I kept that bike in perfect condition and whoever is using it now leaves it out in the rain A LOT and has absolutely destroyed the entire thing. I regularly see it there parked outside the library. I imagine whoever has it now bought it off the pr!ck that stole it from me. At least it's getting used. I can't prove i own it and I don't want it back now anyways. I would like to let the new "owner" know they're cycling a stolen bike though.

I forgot my lock today, and my bike's hidden under a stairwell outside my office in dublin castle for the day. I'm off to check it's still there!

davej

I guess part of the problem is that if it's kids (i.e under 18s) stealing bikes, it's probably more hassle than it's worth for the gardai to pick them up.

The gardai are only going to be interested in setting up honeypot stings if they think they will catch professional bike thieves.

davej

Prowetod

I think council's should introduce bicycle lockers throught-out the country, this is one of the only ways of preventing people getting at your bike.

kmick

to be honest if I found my stolen bike somewhere regardless of condition, whether I actually wanted it back and who had it I would make a scene. Might make the person who bought it think twice about buying stolen again. The market for stolen bikes only exists because idiots buy them from these scumbags. I have never bought a stolen bike and will never do beacuse I know the pain of findign your bike stolen.

Making the point that their is not a lot the guards can do is not good enough. It is theft and that is a crime. If somone stole a hangbag people would not say ah sure there is nothing the gardai can do.

The point I make about honeypot stings is this. There are probably no more than 100-200 people stealing bikes in this city on a regular basis. if you were catching 1 of these guys a week you could make a serious dent. It might make you think twice about robbing a bike if you had ANY chance of getting caught. At the moment you have NO chance of getting caught. I see guys steaing bikes on georges street in broad daylight - not a care in the world.
As well as that once the gardai got to know the people involved it would be easier to get info on rings, organised stealing etc. I heard about a bike robbery in DIT in dublin where they drove a VAN into the place in broad daylight and proceded using tools to steal ALL the good bikes while people watched. Only people who would be SURE there is no follow up on bike theft would attempt this.

cunnins4

I'd love to see the gardai make a dent in these gangs. They make me sick man. I'd also love to knock them six ways from sunday, but as you said, you don't want anyone advocating violence as a solution, so no more on that point! I think the problem is that bikes are perceived by many as insignificant in terms of monetary value. I don't think a lot of people realise how much some bikes are worth, not only in cash, but in convenience to the owner.

Daymobrew's idea of getting a photo of the fcukers and sticking a few posters of them up is a good one. If ya could get a footage of them stealing a bike and get their faces, whack it up on youtube and every other website ya can find and make sure everyone sees it. Email links etc... around. Even a geocities website with photos of the pr1cks would be a step in the right direction.

What about starting up an online petition for more garda involvment with bike theft? would that do any good do ya think?

to be honest if I found my stolen bike somewhere regardless of condition, whether I actually wanted it back and who had it I would make a scene. Might make the person who bought it think twice about buying stolen again. The market for stolen bikes only exists because idiots buy them from these scumbags.

I got off the bus the first time I saw it and waited around for a while with the intention of kicking the crap out of who had the bike, but after about 30mins and no one showing up my anger was pretty much vented. For all I know, the guy who has the bike bought it off the thief from the buy and sell and hadn't a clue it was stolen. I can hardly go mental at them for that. It's a tough one to call. I couldn't prove it was mine. they couldn't prove they didn't steal it. What could i do really?

davej

cunnins4 wrote:

It's a tough one to call. I couldn't prove it was mine. they couldn't prove they didn't steal it. What could i do really?

Just as a matter of interest, what are the foolproof ways of proving that a bike is yours? A receipt (piece of paper with description of bike) is hardly proof that the particular bike is yours.

Someone could just look at the frame's serial number and come back the next day quoting it..

I guess you could mark your bike with an ultraviolet marker, but even this could be done by anybody at any time when the bike is publically accessible.

davej

cunnins4

If you register the serial number with the gardai ya can prove it's yours. Other than that you could probably stick a laminated card with your name and phone number in the seat post or something?

kmick

They usually come around during the day when everyone is working so short of taking a week off and sitting in a rented hotel room with a expensive zoom lens I cant see how you would manage it.
1 room in the Camden Court x 5 days = 500 euro
1 Rented Zoom lens = 500 euro
Vittles = 100 euro
1 x Copy of the latest Dan Brown novel = 99c
Total 1100.99

Now if I had that mch cash i would just hire Two thugs to show them the error of their ways.

cunnins4

kmick wrote:

I dont want to hear about beating them up etc.

kmick wrote:

Now if I had that mch cash i would just hire Two thugs to show them the error of their ways.

???

anyways, who needs to pay €1000 to hire two thugs? get a couple of hurleys and a mate if ya wanna go down that route.

daymobrew

davej wrote:

Just as a matter of interest, what are the foolproof ways of proving that a bike is yours? A receipt (piece of paper with description of bike) is hardly proof that the particular bike is yours.

Someone could just look at the frame's serial number and come back the next day quoting it..

The bike shop receipt for my bike has the serial number on it. The serial number is also with my home insurance company.
When I was in California I registered my previous bike a the local fire station. They put one of those impossible-to-remove 'asset' stickers on it and copied the number onto a 'bike license' card (it is not like a drivers' license, more an ownership thing). I don't think there was a charge and I can't remember what proof they wanted.

A photo posted to flickr might help - it will show the upload date and the EXIF data, which will show the shooting date.

kenmc

I took a picture of my passport and the serial number of the bike in it. I might laminate a business card also, and put it into the handlebars, bar ends and seat post. Can't hurt.

markpb

My last bike was stolen from the Luas stop at Stephens Green, right in the view of their security cameras. I reported it to the gardai in Harcourt Terrace who pretty much said nothing would be done and to drop into their bike auctions to see if I can find it. I'm on the phone to the RPA now to see if they can help but I'm not holding my breath.

Soldering an asset tag with a name on it might discourage them a little but unless the council start providing secure bike storage at stragic locations, it's hard to see what else can be done.

I think kmick is right, there are probably only a small number of people going round the city with lock cutters, arresting a few of them would make a big difference. Right now, my locks (a motorbike one and a regular bike lock) cost more than the bike they're locking. It's rediculous.

rubadub

markpb wrote:

I reported it to the gardai in Harcourt Terrace who pretty much said nothing would be done and to drop into their bike auctions to see if I can find it.

Yes, I always suspected I was wasting my time giving them a description, I foolishly thought they might actually circulate recent bike descriptions and when a bike is found they might compare it.

So really I wasted my time, the scumbag who robbed my bike could well have had it confiscated and then sold back to him in an auction, fantastic.

I would love to setup a honey pot and beat the living **** out of the guy robbing it. The gardai treat bike theft like kids robbing each others toys or lunch, so they would hopefully treat vigilantism like a schoolyard scrap- pepper spray them and break their hands with the lock.

If word got out that people were being beaten to a bloody pulp who robbed bikes it would be more of a deterrent, even if caught by the gardai nothing happens to these guys.

the_syco

Learn to live with it.

There's only one way to fix this: fines and a database. Every bike you buy, the serial goes on a database.

If it gets stolen, report it, and if your bike gets sold, the seller is fined €3000. Once they can't sell them, they won't steal as many. True, there'll still be hte odd one stolen, but it'll be for them, rather than a shop.

cunnins4

are there any websites where you can register your bike with a picture and serial number or something and report it as stolen? Kinda like that car check ya can do-if you're buying a car ya bang in the reg and it tells you if there's any outstanding debts/insurance claims/if it's stolen or anything.

davej

are there any websites where you can register your bike with a picture and serial number or something and report it as stolen?

It's probably been suggested / acted on before but:

Maybe this is something the Dublin Cycling Campaign could look into setting up in liason with the Gardai ?

davej

Mucco

I'm afraid there is no guaranteed way to stop a bike being stolen. If a thief wants it enough, it'll go. The only way is to make sure the thief doesn't want it that much by:
Not riding a €5000 bike
Using a decent lock, and locking it properly
<cheeky>Lock your bike next to other, less secure bikes </cheeky>

I use:
http://tinyurl.com/3cpyfu
http://tinyurl.com/32ovtt
and http://tinyurl.com/2pjdqy

depending on which bike/what area, and haven't had any problems so far (My bike is worth a max of €400).

I think the Met police in London did a honey-trap for a while and caught some thieves, but I think this might have been a PR exercise.
If my bike was stolen, I'd definitely report it to get it on the statistics.

Civilian_Target

kmick wrote:

I see guys steaing bikes on georges street in broad daylight - not a care in the world.

Maybe its because you don't intervene that they keep stealing! If I see any suspicious behavior directed towards someone elses bike I always approach to "check that everything's OK" - genuine cyclists are often pleased to know someone's keeping an eye out!

Regards theft, I also have an indelible serial number on my bike, and an RFID chip inside too. That's only to prove its mine though. Lockwise, a sold secure d-lock kryptonite and my front skewer is a pitlock, which means the front wheel is a permanent attachment. The latter seems to frustrate thieves, I came back once to a bent front wheel someone had obviously failed to remove. I also usually lock my helmet into the top of the d-lock, and then put it around the back wheel and frame and lock it in. The helmet makes it much harder to get near the lock so you can break it, plus it provides the appearance that I'll be coming back soon.

Haven't lost a bike in 3 years.

daymobrew

Mucco wrote:

If my bike was stolen, I'd definitely report it to get it on the statistics.

So would I. I'd probably need a police report to claim off my house insurance.

Civilian_Target wrote:

Regards theft, I also have an indelible serial number on my bike, and an RFID chip inside too. That's only to prove its mine though.

The Datatag electronic tagging system sounds good. I think that the item fits inside your frame and includes external stickers.
Here is the official website. (Strange, I went to http://www.datatag.co.uk/ and it went to nxgn-ltd.com).

Civilian_Target

My tag's not the same, it's active rather than passive so it's as if my bike has a little radio heartbeat. They were supposed to be implementing such a system as protection for the bike cage in university. That way, you'd need the card you use to leave the bike cage to match your bike's id (ie. only the owner can leave with the bike) to get out the door without setting off the alarm. They haven't implemented it yet though.

kmick

Hopefully in the not too distant future satellite technology will enable cyclists to buy cheap tracking devices. In the meantime two heavy locks will deter 99% of these sub-humans. As always the non-enforcement of laws around this problem mean we are on our own.

Civilian_Target

Now that would be brilliant. Your bike knows when its stolen and identifies its own location, and all you have to do is track it down!

markpb

Wouldn't power source be an issue? As far as I know such systems when fitted in cars draw their power from the battery.

davej

Civilian_Target wrote:

Now that would be brilliant. Your bike knows when its stolen and identifies its own location, and all you have to do is track it down!

As soon as it's possible to recover your bike using an embedded gps tracking device, it will be possible to buy a device to scramble / de-activate it

davej