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DCU vs UCD
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18-08-2007 4:19pm#1
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robby^5 wrote:If you're hot, i recommend DCU.
That's me sorted alright, DCU it is, seems like the place for me
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This might help you decide.... http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=ez7fKVukToI
I'm in DCU doing a masters now, having done my BBS degree in DCU too. Have 2 UCD heads in the masters class and their very capable, both did commerce. Overall impression from them was that DCU's overall programme is better.
INTRA is an opportunity not to be missed, and as far I hear most recruiters respect the hardworking ethos that DCU graduates leave with. (ps you don't have to do INTRA)
Finally, you might want to think about costs. I think anyone with their economic hat on is agreed at this stage that uni fees WILL be back, soon. In that light you might want to think about what you'll pay in UCD versus DCU for a course that is just as good if not better.0 -
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I did my undergraduate in UCD and am currently doing a masters in DCU. I don't know how the 2 courses your considering stack up but I think UCD is streets ahead of DCU in most areas.
More craic on campus, better facilities, better lecturers (comparing my courses), better international reputation...just better.
Are you comparing your undergrad lecturers from UCD to your masters lecturers in DCU? That seems a bit.... UCD-ish, tbh
also, re: better international reputation:
I'm no expert but DCU seems to have a lot of connections that it passes on to its students. I'm not disputing your statement, I just want to hear more debate on it0 -
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hey, im in the same boat
im thinkin dcu aswel, but i dont fancy the year of workin!!
could some1 that has done the INTRA tell me if its any good?
You do know that DCU deduct marks for spelling, right?
Seriously, why wouldn't you want to have relevant work experience in your subject field when you graduate?
INTRA is what you make it. In my INTRA, they sent another girl and myself over to a company in Germany, but there was really only enough work for one person. It was an interesting experience all the same and I pulled in decent money, for a student.
I would recommend it and the fact that I can say I worked for this company still looks well on my CV and is still relevant to what I do now.0 -
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LimeFruitGum wrote: »International reputation? They're both as well-known as each other abroad in my experience. Or else foreigners confuse both of them with Trinity:rolleyes:
ucd is 'triple accredited', does this make any diff to employers?
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Eggs-actly!MonaghanPenguin wrote: »those tables are skewed more in the direction of research than undergrad teaching and within universities, schools tend to have reputations that vary from their parent institution. Saying an individual course is more internationally recognised than another based on league tables for institutions is meaningless
Regarding the generalised "it's better" then you have further problems. For instance, regarding atmosphere both myself (a DCU grad) and my mates (UCD grads) both agreed that the UCD campus was far too big for any kind of decent atmosphere. Fair enough the bar was good craic but the DCU bar, when equally full is equally good fun. On top of that you have the C&S activities which have constantly proved themselves some of the best in Ireland. DCU also has some great facilities, perhaps not as fantastic as UCD but then again it's also less than half it's size.
At the end of the day it boils down to this fact, go to the University who has the best course in the field you want. This is what employers will value, not the initials on the t-shirt/hoodie you wear.0 -
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And this attitude is why I'm glad they're looking at reintroducing fees in some shape or form. Since when did Universities become anything other than learning institutions? It's not meant to be a bloody holiday like, you're there to learn and to develop as a person. In my case I accomplished this through a combination of my course and C&S activities, others do the latter through sports, however, the education is what you're there for and any other aspect, facilities wise, is merely a bonus.Time Magazine wrote: »I disagree. For one thing, university is not just about employment. At the end of the day: pick the course in the university that will make you happiest over the course of your life. That might mean struggling through a hard course to get the long-term financial rewards; that might mean having an absolute ball for four years for no great monetary gain. (I know people who don't have very long life expectancies, for example, for whom this is a great decision.) Or it might mean picking the nearest college so you your girlfriend won't dump you. Basically, it's not just about the course.
Oh and generally speaking, if you go to a University close to you for no other reason than you want to be near your other half then, in my opinion of course, you are a moron.
Well from both my own experience and from that of close family and friends I can tell you that is not true when put in such generalised terms. In terms of Computing and Engineering, the DCU courses have been recognised by employers as some of the best in the country, in specific cases the best. As for Business, I've had family members do courses here where their mates did Commerce in UCD and BESS in Trinity and said family member and his class mates were snapped up far quicker than their friends in other courses. Does this mean one is better than the other? Nope, but it does discount this idiotic notion that employers care what college you come from. To be more precise, any employer worth their salt will know what college has the best courses and will cherry pick from them. They'd want to be pretty moronic to simply look at the University and make a decision based on that.Time Magazine wrote: »I got a first from Trinity and my friend got a first from DCU - if we're applying for the same graduate job then (unfairly imho, but it's still true in my experience) then I have the upper-hand. You can put your head in the sand and pretend this doesn't exist, or you can bite your lip and consider it along with transport/social life/everything else.
That being said I am sure the kind of behaviour you've described does happen in some circles, academic or otherwise, however I'm quite happy to live my life having no part in that kind of bull****. 0 -
I don't know what INTRA is.Really? Employers would choose a name over actual work experience (as you're mentioning firsts, I'm assuming they managed to secure intra)? I know in my field anyway (electronic eng) I could quite easily match any of my Trinity friends in a job application, and this is based on speaking with employers when applying for INTRA. It would come down to other things, such as how we are in the interview etc. Even all that aside, in a large number of cases where intra is secured (as is usually the case with people who get firsts), there's a job waiting for them when they graduate, should they choose to take it.
There are (well, there used to be) jobs waiting for just about anyone who got firsts in any good course. But "firsts" aren't identical. My brother did CS in NUIM and I know that DCU has the better rep for that kind of thing. I don't know about engineering, but I could well imagine that DCU are hot on that too. So yes, absolutely, course reputations matter. But it's an imperfect knowledge world out there. Oxford/Cambridge don't know whether TCD or DCU are better at economics, but they've heard of TCD. It's only a pretty small part of the picture when you want to stay in Ireland, but in my experience it's pretty important (ridiculously so - CAO choices are a poor indicator of you as a person) when you want to go abroad. That's the extent of what I'm saying here. It's nothing ground-breaking or nothing controversial. I'm saying it's an issue and it's something people should consider, along with everything else, when making their choice. They should pick what's best for them. If they hope to get a job as a games programmer in Dublin, then CA in DCU is the best. If they want to work as a lawyer in New York, then TCD is probably best.
Education is fun. A degree in Sociology and History can be outstanding for a person's intellectual curiosity, but probably won't get you much of a job. If somebody wants to study it for three years, good luck to them. (I agree, they should pay for it.) My point is that there are valid reasons to want to study Sociology, but your employment prospects afterwards are not likely to enter the equation much. So I disagree with your assertion to "go to the University who has the best course in the field you want [because this] is what employers will value." My point = it's not all about employment.And this attitude is why I'm glad they're looking at reintroducing fees in some shape or form. Since when did Universities become anything other than learning institutions? It's not meant to be a bloody holiday like, you're there to learn and to develop as a person. In my case I accomplished this through a combination of my course and C&S activities, others do the latter through sports, however, the education is what you're there for and any other aspect, facilities wise, is merely a bonus.
You're welcome to your opinion. If it makes them happier then I say fair play to them. I'm a pretty right-wing goals-orientated kind of guy, but I can appreciate that I wouldn't want a slightly higher-paying job if I had to dump my pretty new girlfriend for it.Oh and generally speaking, if you go to a University close to you for no other reason than you want to be near your other half then, in my opinion of course, you are a moron.
Your friends and family are specific terms, not generalities.Well from both my own experience and from that of close family and friends I can tell you that is not true when put in such generalised terms.
Agreed, where are you getting this notion that I don't agree with that?In terms of Computing and Engineering, the DCU courses have been recognised by employers as some of the best in the country, in specific cases the best.
[QUTOE]As for Business, I've had family members do courses here where their mates did Commerce in UCD and BESS in Trinity and said family member and his class mates were snapped up far quicker than their friends in other courses.[/QUOTE]Again, you're talking specifics. I can list BESS grads who got snapped up to Oxford and Cambridge faster than someone with better grades from DCU, i.e. me and my colleague. You cannot complain that I'm being specific and then reply with the exact same specificities!
I didn't say better. I said better recognised.Does this mean one is better than the other?
What's it gonna be? They do care or they don't?Nope, but it does discount this idiotic notion that employers care what college you come from. <next paragraph> That being said I am sure the kind of behaviour you've described does happen in some circles, academic or otherwise
They would want to be pretty moronic and I think they are pretty moronic. That's my point. It's unfair that my friend gets asked "DCU?" when she applied to Oxford, with better grades than me, and I get "Ah, yes, Trinity College." It is absolutely moronic and unfair but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, nor does it mean that you should imagine that it doesn't exist. And this isn't some crappy firm here. This is really a place worth its salt, one of the best universities in the world. I also know that some very well-known investment banking firms in London will simply throw out your application unless you did BESS or UCD Commerce.To be more precise, any employer worth their salt will know what college has the best courses and will cherry pick from them. They'd want to be pretty moronic to simply look at the University and make a decision based on that.
That's fine, and cool if that's what you want to do. If you're more interested in fairness and equality than getting into Oxford, good for you. If Paddy Murphy is more interested in getting into Oxford than fairness and equality, then good for Paddy. I'm not sure I'm getting my point across here, but this is entirely my point. If I were advising a LC'er as to whether they should do Economics, Politics and Law in DCU or to do Economics and Social Studies in Trinity, I'd have to know what they want in life. If they're certain they want to marry a girl from Glasnevin (and let's imagine they can know that!) then DCU all the way. If they live on the southside, then TCD will save them hours' commuting every week. Blah blah blah until you get to the last bit which is the reputation of the university and the role it plays in your future life. I am asserting right now that I know people who are smarter than me and who have better grades than me who are struggling to get in the door in places because their alma mater is not as well recognised. Yes, that's a load of sh*t and it's unfair. But, quite frankly, tough sh*t. Oxford/Harvard/Berkeley are not going to change their admissions processes for one girl. Had she known about this kind of thing when she was 17, she would have chosen Trinity - she's admitted that herself. That's why I'm stating this here publicly in the hope it will be of some use to some kid. People like you who claim that it doesn't exist would not have helped my friend and it will not help the equivalent girl who's filling in her CAO form today.however I'm quite happy to live my life having no part in that kind of bull****.0 -
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INTRA is a paid work placement that most students in DCU do during their third year. It's been quoted by employers as a big reason they take people on straight from DCU as they usually have some experience working in their specific area. It's also usually why you see it mentioned when listing the pros of the college/courses.Time Magazine wrote: »I don't know what INTRA is.
We do seem to be agreeing on these points, however, I was concentrating on the employer side of things rather than further education in the likes of Oxford or Cambridge where, as I mentioned later in my post, I believed that kind of stuff may matter more. That doesn't mean I'm still not surprised it still does happen though, especially in an age where that kind of information is far easier to obtain.
Again we're agreeing here however the association I've made between education and employment may have come across a bit too strong. That being said, if someone was in the first position you'd described I would assume they'd still want to go to the institution which had the best course, rather than the university with the best reputation.Time Magazine wrote: »Education is fun. A degree in Sociology and History can be outstanding for a person's intellectual curiosity, but probably won't get you much of a job. If somebody wants to study it for three years, good luck to them. (I agree, they should pay for it.) My point is that there are valid reasons to want to study Sociology, but your employment prospects afterwards are not likely to enter the equation much. So I disagree with your assertion to "go to the University who has the best course in the field you want [because this] is what employers will value." My point = it's not all about employment.
Perhaps I have a more black and white view of this but again I'd consider the quality of education you get at a particular institution to be the main concern. Of course there are financial considerations to make too but in the context of this debate I'm going to ignore them. Outside of that though, I'd regard any else as a secondary concerns. As for the other half comment, well I was referring more to 18 years olds rather than say, mature students who could be in more long term relationships with actual futures.Time Magazine wrote: »I'm not sure I'm getting my point across here, but this is entirely my point. If I were advising a LC'er as to whether they should do Economics, Politics and Law in DCU or to do Economics and Social Studies in Trinity, I'd have to know what they want in life. If they're certain they want to marry a girl from Glasnevin (and let's imagine they can know that!) then DCU all the way. If they live on the southside, then TCD will save them hours' commuting every week. Blah blah blah until you get to the last bit which is the reputation of the university and the role it plays in your future life.
Really? I find that behaviour quick shocking from those kinds of institutions. That being said, if the colleges they're favouring have indeed better courses it may go some way to explain the situation?Time Magazine wrote: »I am asserting right now that I know people who are smarter than me and who have better grades than me who are struggling to get in the door in places because their alma mater is not as well recognised. Yes, that's a load of sh*t and it's unfair. But, quite frankly, tough sh*t. Oxford/Harvard/Berkeley are not going to change their admissions processes for one girl. Had she known about this kind of thing when she was 17, she would have chosen Trinity - she's admitted that herself. That's why I'm stating this here publicly in the hope it will be of some use to some kid. People like you who claim that it doesn't exist would not have helped my friend and it will not help the equivalent girl who's filling in her CAO form today.0 -
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