Electrical supply questions

loobylou

I,m going away in the motorhome next week for the first time. I'll be staying mostly in campsites with an electric hookup. I don't run any major extras, the van came with a tv, dish, decoder which I have not figured out yet and will most likely not use. I will want to recharge a laptop and perhaps use a portable dvd player. Will these operate from the sockets in the camper while on hookup or do I need to get an inverter?
I have connected a blue 16A plug to a standard socket on an extension reel. If I ran the internal lighting off batteries could I use this setup from campsite mains to power the other units?
Many thanks in advance, Ian

peasant

Can't remember what kind of van you have, but if it's factory wired, once you plug in the hookup in the outside socket in your van (and flick the 230V fuse/switch) three things should happen:

- your built in charger charges the batteries (maybe another switch needs to be flicked)

- you can run your fridge on 230 V

- and your sockets inside have 230 V



So if you bring the charger(s) and they fit the sockets (German sockets/ IRL plugs?) you can charge / run all your gizmos.

It would be a bit stupid to run the hookup inside via the cable drum, as you'd be passing up the opportunity of charging your batteries and running the fridge. On most campsites there is a fixed charge for the hookup anyway ..no matter how little or much you use.

loobylou

Thanks for the quick reply, its a Euramobil 585 obviously factory built. So all I need are the adaptors between German sockets and Irish plugs? I read somewhere (here?) that all the stuff on board runs off 12V and that whrn on hookup the power is converted to 12V. Is this true? What then is an inverter?
Also, is there any way of charging a laptop off the alternator whilst driving?
So many questions!!!

peasant

Ok ...you've got two different circuits, 230v and 12V

12V runs of the battery (charged by the alternator when driving or the built in charger when connected to 230V and switched on) and powers lights, fans, water pump.

So when you're parked your pump/lights drain the battery (the second one, not the main car battery) unless your'e charging it at the same time through the 230v hookup. Without a re-charge (either driving or 230V) you get about 3-4 days worth of light and pump out of your battery before its empty.


230v runs off the hookup, supplies your charger, the fridge (when 230v is selelcted) and the 230v sockets and anything you plug into them.


Now there could be a situation (watchingTV/satellite, using a hairdyer) where you need 230V but have no hookup ...that's where an inverter comes in. It con(in)verts 12V from your battery to 230V at the inverter socket.
On a single second battery with an inverter attached, you'll get about ten minutes worth of hairdrying or two-three hours worth of telly ...then your battery is empty.
An inverter only makes sense if you have several big batteries to power it.


As for charging your laptop while driving ...if you have a charger for it that fits into your cigarette lighter socket or any other type of 12V socket (i.e. works on 12V), it will work ...otherwise it probably won't.

Most re-chargeable electric gizmos actually use neither 230v nor 12V to run, but some obscure voltage from anywhere between 1.5 to 14. That's why they come with a specific charger (a miniature inverter if you want) that converts the source voltage (12v or 230v) into the specific voltage needed for charging.

Malta1

Fridge only runs off 12V when engine is running......otherwise you must either use gas or AC power

Inverter basically takes 12V DC and converts to AC

With my van, when you plug in the hook-up the power system automatically switches to AC and the batteries are charged automatically. Also the sockets become "live"
If you have an inverter, you could charge the laptop as you drive.....but given that you are going to be hooked up at the sites........why bother

My inverter is only used to power the Air Con in the back

Portable DVD should be able to connect to DC supply (cig liter sockets)....probably some in the back

Just make sure that you have a couple of plug adapters that you would bring on holidays for you sockets (if needed)

loobylou

Thanks for all this info. Have 3 German sockets in the back which I will use with adaptors. There are also 2 sockets that look like 12v cigar lighters but a much narrower diameter. What are these for?
Ian

peasant

My guess would be that they are a differnt kind of 12V socket.

Have two of them in my van as well but am yet to find something that actually plugs into them

As for your German sockets, if you're DIY minded (and bored) you could possibly exchange them for standard Irish household sockets ...that is if the bigger Irish ones fit and you know how to wire 230v correctly.

ousty

Loobylou
Re your 12v German sockets
Go to www.roadpro.co.uk
Then look up
C0228
PROCAR DIN / L.S. CONVERTER PLUG
67882900
ousty

stapeler

loobylou wrote: »

Thanks for all this info. Have 3 German sockets in the back which I will use with adaptors. There are also 2 sockets that look like 12v cigar lighters but a much narrower diameter. What are these for?
Ian

On the 12V socket, have a look at this on ebay. with the wee red cap off it fits the smaller sockets and installing the red cap allows you to use it in a standard 12v lighter socket. Some of the motor factors stock them too with extension leads and a couple of sockets atached.
I picked up a couple in one of the roadside shops for about €4.99

As ousty points out Roadprod have a few on offer too http://www.roadpro.co.uk/retail/product_detail.aspx?prod=PRO+CAR+COILED+CABLE+W.+PLUG+AND+L.T.+SOCKET&id=66

*Kol*

I don't have any of those 12v sockets in my MH. Has anybody fitted them in their MH themselves for example to plug in 12v TVs, DVD players etc?

ousty

The "small" 12V sockets are German not fitted to Motorhomes built in England and most "home convertion vans-motorhomes
ousty

loobylou

Thanks for that, I got an adaptor thingy somewhere on ebay and then realised I had really no need for it. After all, how often do you need to power things off the 12v system, especially in the living area.

ousty

lBBYLOU
You run things off 12V ,like your mobile phone,your laptop
a T.V , a DVD an invertor,need I go on
ousty

*Kol*

ousty wrote: »

lBBYLOU
You run things off 12V ,like your mobile phone,your laptop
a T.V , a DVD an invertor,need I go on
ousty

I can go on, GPS, PDA, 12v Kettle, 12v microwave, fans, heaters..:D;)

loobylou

OK pedants, but which of those are really necessary? Phones, GPS, are used or recharged from the cigarette lighter, 12V kettles are a waste of time, its way quicker to heat water from the stove, etc. Methinks people are overcomplicating this camping thing. If you need all that other stuff perhaps you should consider staying at home!! IMO.

stapeler

I disagree, 12v is important while travelling and wild camping.
Kids use the DVD player, Electric fan handy when it's hot and sticky. I hang a 12V fluresent lights outside. TV runs on 12 volts too. Inverter used to charge the Laptop while on the move.
My cigarette socket only powers up when the ignition is on and I don't like leaving the keys in the ignition where there is children around.
Some comforts are required when travelling, It's all about keeping everybody happy and making it an enjoyable experience for all.

Kol, If you're considering putting a few sockets it you will need to run a cable back to the fuse board and wire it in. I'd recomment putting one under the table somewhere for pluging in DVD player without dragging cables from one side to the other.

ousty

loobylou
you do not run anything off the cigarette lighter socket . It takes power from the engine battery
You run 12V "things" from the leisure battery
If you flatten the leisure battery, you start the engine and charge the leisure battery up
If you flatten the engin battery !!!!
As my father used to say You are "bandjacks"
ousty

dollydishmop

ousty wrote: »

loobylou
you do not run anything off the cigarette lighter socket . It takes power from the engine battery

Really depends how your system is set up.

In my yoke I've had it wired so that *everything* 12v, that isn't necessary for driving function, comes off the leisure battery.

So....the cigarette lighter runs of my leisure battery.
The car stereo runs off the leisure battery.
The courtesy/cab light runs off the leisure battery.
The CB radio runs off the leisure battery.

The only non-engine 12v things that run off the engine battery are the headlights, dash lights, tail lights, indicators etc.

Basically anything you might possibly use whilst parked up/camping runs off my leisure battery, whether you might use it whilst driving or not.

chrisblack

So what size of Leisure Battery is recommended - I notice mine is a 50Amh(?)

Chris

ousty

Chris
Not ONE but TWO 110 Am is best
ousty

*Kol*

Ousty,

If one were to install a second leisure battery, how would that effect the charging system? Would it also have to be upgraded? i.e. the charging system from the alternator and the 220v?

ousty

kol
To answer your Q no it would not affect your charging system
providing you wire it up correctly
No, you would not need to upgrade your system
To be 100% sure one would need to know what type of a motorhome
you are talking about. Is it factory made, or a panel van conversion.
Does it have an E.M.S (energy management system) what the Germans call an "Elektroblock" or is just run off the alternater
Remember if you add a second battery it SHOULD be of the same amp and age
Come back
ousty

*Kol*

ousty wrote: »

kol
To answer your Q no it would not affect your charging system
providing you wire it up correctly
No, you would not need to upgrade your system
To be 100% sure one would need to know what type of a motorhome
you are talking about. Is it factory made, or a panel van conversion.
Does it have an E.M.S (energy management system) what the Germans call an "Elektroblock" or is just run off the alternater
Remember if you add a second battery it SHOULD be of the same amp and age
Come back
ousty

Cheers for that. I have a factory built MH. I'm not sure about the E.M.S.(what does it look like??) I would have to check. I know that the leisure battery does charge off the alternator and there is a battery charger for the leisure battery under the drivers seat for when you are on hook up. I would have to find a suitable location for a second battery as mine is under the passenger seat in the cab. The nearest place to it would be under the front dinette seat.

ousty

kol
The E.M.S is about 12x8x5 It looks like a battery charger
The make and model of your M/H would give me a better idea where your E.M.S is likely to be fitted. i-e my M/H is a Hymer S70 1997 Model
ousty

*Kol*

ousty wrote: »

kol
The E.M.S is about 12x8x5 It looks like a battery charger
The make and model of your M/H would give me a better idea where your E.M.S is likely to be fitted. i-e my M/H is a Hymer S70 1997 Model
ousty

Thanks. Mine is an Ahorn Camp 680 2000 model.

ousty

KOL
Not familiar with this model , but if you give those people a ring
they may be able to help, as they have one for sale

Freedom Campers
Old Pottery, Main Street, Carrigaline, Co. Cork
Tel: 021 483 4632
Email: Freedom Campers

ousty

stapeler

It's also called a zig unit, follow the wires back from the existing leisure battery and you should find it. It contains a couple of terminals and relays. In my old hymer it was beside the existing leisure battery and was a wee bit bigger than a cigarette packet.
No need to upgrade anything as it just takes power from the altenator/charger and distributes it.

A second battery can be wired in parallel to the existing battery, the new battery would need to be the same ampage and condition.

*Kol*

stapeler wrote: »

It's also called a zig unit, follow the wires back from the existing leisure battery and you should find it. It contains a couple of terminals and relays. In my old hymer it was beside the existing leisure battery and was a wee bit bigger than a cigarette packet.
No need to upgrade anything as it just takes power from the altenator/charger and distributes it.

A second battery can be wired in parallel to the existing battery, the new battery would need to be the same ampage and condition.

Cheers. I'll have a look. Realalistically would you have to buy two new batteries?

stapeler

I think so. If you have one weaker battery it will have effects and possible pull down the other battery. I'll try find some more information.

chrisblack

I'm just beginning to investigate the electrics now, and am wondering what all the buttons/dials are for on my "zig" "ems" unit..

The unit is a Dethleffs 804 Bord Control..

On the lhs there is the main switch for 12v, followed by 3 buttons I can press (not switches) under each one it has 12v /10amp, above the buttons are some symbols, ther third symbol has 3 stars...

next to this and under a meter are 2 rocker switches which are marked Tank and Batterie,

finally there is another button with a diode symbol(?) underneath it... this has a green light on it.

Any help?

Thanks

Chris

I've enclosed a picture - its not the best, but all I have for now..

peasant

chrisblack

Strange place for a control unit ...are you sure that's not a radio? :D:D

My guess would be:

- one general switch that switches everything 12V on or off ..i.e it kills the whole supply when you're parking the car for longer EDIT ...everything not needed for driving, that is.

- the next three would be for different things, most likely one for all light circuits (EDIT in the living quarters), one for the pump and the one with the three stars could be the fridge

the toggle switches under the gauge are to switch between batteries one and two and waste / fresh water tanks ...the guage should then show how full/charged each one of them is


the last one *could* be a charge indicator for the charger/alternator, indicating that your batteries arre being charged ...but I'm not sure on that one

chrisblack

Thanks - I tried a babel fish translation of the manual, relating to the one with the green light ... can't make sense of it!!!

"Load control tracer, to function-indicates and manual release of the loader procedure. Lights up whenever with mains connection charging current flows into the battrie. If the load AUTOMATIC switched on switched off (14.4v) and not yet again (12.8v), through the loader procedure can touch lightly to be drawn lots prematurely"

Chris

peasant

Ahh yes ...just what I thought.

The green light is supposed to tell you that the battery is being charged via 230V and the built-in charger.
EDIT: Possibly it's switchable as well, but the translation doesn't make much sense


PS ..if you need some German translated, don't ask babelfish ...ask me

chrisblack

Don't tempt me - I've a complete manual here that I would love to have translated!!!

However how about this - relating to the meter and the switches underneath..

"Kombi-instrument, beleuchtet, zur kontrolle der batterie - spannung von starter- und versorgungsbatterie sowie des fÜllstandes von frisch- und abwassertank. Abfrage erfolgt per Taster 2 bzw. Schalter 3; die instrumentenbeleuchtung wird bei jeder Bestätigung mit geschaltet. Obere Skalenhälfte = Batteriespannung, untere Hälfte = Fullstand von FW- und AW- Tank"

peasant

Well ..the occasional sentence or small paragraph is free ...a whole manual would cost you

peasant

chrisblack wrote: »

"Kombi-instrument, beleuchtet, zur kontrolle der batterie - spannung von starter- und versorgungsbatterie sowie des fÜllstandes von frisch- und abwassertank. Abfrage erfolgt per Taster 2 bzw. Schalter 3; die instrumentenbeleuchtung wird bei jeder Bestätigung mit geschaltet. Obere Skalenhälfte = Batteriespannung, untere Hälfte = Fullstand von FW- und AW- Tank"

sorry, only saw that now ...a very rough translation:

combination-instrument, illuminated, for controlling the charge of vehicle and leisure battery as well as the level of freshwater and wastewater tanks.
operated via button 2 and/or switch 3 (illumination will get switched accordingly). Upper level of the scale indicates battery voltage, lower level is for tank levels


so ...as I thought ...with one of the buttons/switches you switch between battery and water and the other one then is battery 1 / 2 or tank 1 / 2


you just have to figure out now which is which ...the description doesn't really say.


also ...tank level indicators usually only read gobbledygook after a few years, if at all (and exchanging them is usually more hassle than it's worth)

chrisblack

Danke schon mein freund. Site 20 jahre hab ich kein Deutsch gesprochen.

Chris

camper guy

stapeler wrote: »

I think so. If you have one weaker battery it will have effects and possible pull down the other battery. I'll try find some more information.

hi guys ,
My leisure battery went low recently and i drove it around for a bit and its come up to just under 12 volts . Went for long spin with lights on and it lost power on the main battery. Can the alternator only charge one battery at a time? I think my main battery isnt charging because leisure BATTERY is weaker can someone enlighten me thanks.

stapeler

Camper Guy.
It sound's like your main battery may be on it's last legs and not holding a charge.
Firstly check your altenator, you need to measure voltage at your battery, typically when charging you should see around 13.5 volts with your engine running. If it's not charging you'll only see 12volts.
If it is charging and you're battery isn't holding a charge then you're ready for a new battery. How old is the battery? usually they're good for around 3 years.
The altenator sends power to the zig unit/split relay unit. This contains relays which splits power between both batterys, if I'm not mistaken it charges by alternating between each battery every couple of minutes. (I know my old hymer worked that way as you could hear the relay kicking in and out every couple of minutes)

camper guy

stapeler wrote: »

Camper Guy.
It sound's like your main battery may be on it's last legs and not holding a charge.
Firstly check your altenator, you need to measure voltage at your battery, typically when charging you should see around 13.5 volts with your engine running. If it's not charging you'll only see 12volts.
If it is charging and you're battery isn't holding a charge then you're ready for a new battery. How old is the battery? usually they're good for around 3 years.
The altenator sends power to the zig unit/split relay unit. This contains relays which splits power between both batterys, if I'm not mistaken it charges by alternating between each battery every couple of minutes. (I know my old hymer worked that way as you could hear the relay kicking in and out every couple of minutes)

thanks stapeler
sounds to me like my battery is knackered ouch . how much for a new one?

stapeler

o'mearacamping.com from around the €70 mark. Here's a link.here Chrisblack mensions good value batterys. Chrisblack might be able to update.

dowtchaboy

CamperGuy: It does sound like the MAIN battery is shagged - i.e. the one that starts your engine. When replacing it make sure you use a starter battery, not a leisure battery, which is what I presume O'Mearas have. Leisure batteries are designed for long slower drain of power, and to be able to handle being drained completely - they won't be happy starting an engine.
Conversely starter batteries are designed for supplying large surges of power to turn over the engine and are unhappy if drained completely - in fact I believe they die after about being "flattened" 10 times or so. Starter batteries are usually a bit cheaper than leisure ones - it's worth paying for a good one though.
db.

stapeler

oops, my mistake. I was thinking leisure batterys at the time. Your starter battery will cost around the €60 mark from most motorfactors.

chrisblack

not been on here for a while and just spotted this... my neighbour has recently taken delivery of some second hand batteries, although I haven't had time to call round to see what he has... PM me if you wnat any more info.. it will mean having to come to west cork to collect... Chris