A week in the life of a barrister!

CelloPoint

morbo wrote:

"Arbeit Macht Frei" does not mean "hard work pays off" at all. It means "work brings freedom" or "work shall set you free/will free you" or "work liberates" and, literally in English, "work makes free".

The slogan, "Arbeit Macht Frei," was placed at the entrances to a number of Nazi concentration camps, not as a mockery, not even literally – as a false promise that those who worked to exhaustion would eventually be released – but rather "as a kind of mystical declaration that self-sacrifice in the form of endless labour does in itself bring a kind of spiritual freedom."

It's all here on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbeit_macht_frei

Fair play to ye for looking up wikipedia (sorry, education for the masses)

Nowhere did I say that "Arbeit macht frei" means "hard work pays off".

Read a little closer this time and you might see that I was making a mockery of the idealist concept that "hard work pays off".

Rhonda9000

Man, I'm sick of seeing this thread still in the list every day

Vainglory

How common is it (if at all) for those people who attempt the Bar but find it impossible to earn any semblance of a decent living to then try their hand at FE1s and the solicitor route?

Jo King

After three years at the bar a barrister can become a solicitor without doing any FE1 s, or indeed doing a full apprenticeship. A small number of solicitors are former barristers. Most people who leave the bar go to in-house positions.

johnnysmurfman

Jo King wrote:

After three years at the bar a barrister can become a solicitor without doing any FE1 s, or indeed doing a full apprenticeship. A small number of solicitors are former barristers. Most people who leave the bar go to in-house positions.

Where did you read/learn this? Is it in the Law Society regulations?

johnnyskeleton

johnnysmurfman wrote:

Where did you read/learn this? Is it in the Law Society regulations?

http://www.lawsociety.ie/displayCDAContent.aspx?node=540&groupID=540&code=education

NUTLEY BOY

Try reading a few Henry Cecil books to fill in the long winter months between briefs to go to the Master's Court to spend a hour talking total bollocks on a nothing application...........:)

Lawlord007

morbo wrote:

"Arbeit Macht Frei" does not mean "hard work pays off" at all. It means "work brings freedom" or "work shall set you free/will free you" or "work liberates" and, literally in English, "work makes free".

The slogan, "Arbeit Macht Frei," was placed at the entrances to a number of Nazi concentration camps, not as a mockery, not even literally – as a false promise that those who worked to exhaustion would eventually be released – but rather "as a kind of mystical declaration that self-sacrifice in the form of endless labour does in itself bring a kind of spiritual freedom."

It's all here on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbeit_macht_frei

Poor Cantab, he meant well.

belinda502

The reality of working at the bar is that there are a lot of seriously crap barristers out there (particularly junior counsel) who are there simply because of who their mummy or daddy is. These people use 'milord' at every available opportunity and play with their wigs a lot. It is very very hard for someone who does not have connections to make it. In order to do so they need to be exceptional and more importantly have strong financial back up. You are more likely to earn decent money as a actor than as a barrister. There are too many people qualifying in law every year anyway largely thanks to the system of free education which created a meritocracy. That's fine but it raises the bar for everyone particularly as more women are now entering the profession. I put myself through nightschool for years and I am now looking at climbing another mountain to secure employment. I can say without hesitaton that I seriously regret embarking on a legal career. Only do it if you are young and optimistic. If you are old (i.e. over 30) get a rich partner before you decide to go the legal route.

johnnyskeleton

belinda502 wrote: »

The reality of working at the bar is that there are a lot of seriously crap barristers out there (particularly junior counsel) who are there simply because of who their mummy or daddy is.

That's a bit harsh, seeing as there are good and bad people in every profession.

belinda502 wrote:

It is very very hard for someone who does not have connections to make it.

It's very hard for anybody to make it. You don't become a top senior counsel overnight.

belinda502 wrote:

There are too many people qualifying in law every year anyway largely thanks to the system of free education which created a meritocracy.

It's hard to define too many. If you want to do something badly enough, nothing should stop you.

belinda502 wrote:

That's fine but it raises the bar for everyone particularly as more women are now entering the profession.

They're both good things, in my view.

belinda502

Re your reply 'thats a bit harsh' etc , I didn't say all barristers, I said 'a lot' and I was referring solely to the barristers that go in on their parents coat tails. Of course there are good and bad in every profession. That's self evident. However there are a lot of very inept barristers out there who are there solely because their connections got them in. One of the most exceptional young junior counsel I know in terms of his legal argument and basic diction, worked in insurance, had no connections whatsoever and is where he is now because of sheer grit and ability. It seriously annoys me when I see young able (and not so young and able) junior counsel reduced to moving one motion at a county registrar's court, when their connected and inept colleagues get briefed on circuit and high court matters and turn up to court not having even bothered to read the brief.

Tom Young

Is it not a case that people with the ability eventually get there? Per your example.

I can understand where you are coming from and the County Registers court can be as bad as the Masters depending on what your trying to achieve.

Not reading a brief is purely negligent in my view, unless you've taken a case at a late stage and have to request further time etc.

johnnyskeleton

belinda502 wrote: »

worked in insurance, had no connections whatsoever

If he worked in insurance, he more likely than not had some connections. I'm sure he was brought onto their panel fairly quickly, or at least got to know a few solicitors while he worked there.

Don't worry about the connected and inept barristers - when their connections run out they will loose all their briefs. But the way I look at it is like this: it's not that it's very hard for someone without connections to make it - it's hard for everyone to make it. Sure, there are some people who get great briefs without necessarily deserving them, but if they didn't get them that's not to say that other, more talented young members of the bar would get them.

The more realistic way to approach the bar (since the recent change in their rules) is to work in another legal area for a few years (like insurance, a solicitors office, or the Att Gen) and then try to get as many contacts as you can to keep you in your first few years.

Amazotheamazing

I dunno, the simple fact is huge numbers are going through both streams of the legal profession. It's unrealistic to think this won't have a massive impact on the profession in the future. Does this mean the less able solicitors and barristers will fall by the wayside or will there be glut of qualified professionials leading to a reduction in fees, or will we have to export a certain number of graduates every year?

Dub6Kevin

I completed the BL this year and decided not to go down to the library.

AFAIK the Griffith degree is recognised - I'm pretty sure a couple of people in my year came from there so you will get straight into the vocational course. It's expensive (my fees for the year were almost €12k).

The course itself is fairly hit and miss. The Inns treat students dreadfully (or at least that was the consensus from my colleagues) and even finding a master can be very difficult.

Of my group of 16, less than half went down this year. A couple intend to in the next year or two but many were thoroughly disillusioned (I'm not one of them - I'm undecided as to whether I ultimately want to practise but it certainly will not be for a number of years if I do).

There are far too many barristers attempting to start careers at the Bar every year. The work simply isn't there. The rate of attrition is very high in the first five years.

People with connections will have a head start but it is ultimatley a meritocracy. If you're lousy, it won't matter if Daddy is President of the Supreme Court you won't get a second brief from a firm if you screw up the first. Equally, if you are exceptionally good you will, I believe, be recognised as such (Brendan Grehan SC is probably the most successful criminal barrister in the State and, as far as I know, had no connections starting out).

Pals I was in college with who went into Solicitors firms are paid around €30-35k pa while on their training contract and make a massive leap on qualification. Add to that holiday pay, pension, health insurance, job security etc... it is a very attractive package when contrasted against paying thousands in Fees to the Inns and earning nothing for several years!

Also bear in mind on a financial level that when you are called you will need to pay for a wig and gown (€1.1.5k) and your subscription for the Law Library (€4.5, I think) so not only will you not earn anything, it will cost you money to work!

Bottom line is, if you are good, really good, and can afford to invest three or four years and several thousand euro then you will have a great career and a fascinating job. You'll make great money, have wild craic and it will hardly be like work at all!

All the best, whatever you decide to do.

EdgarAllenPoo

Stew, if you still read this thread it looks like you're well screwed.