Kilmainham gaol tour?

mikemac

cowzerp wrote:

My brother was in kilmainham gaol the other day and got the tour from a latvian girl! she kept calling padraic pearce-patrick and did not know any irish history! i think this is a sad state of affairs-any opinions?

What wrong with saying Patrick Pearse?
This was discussed in Talking History, the newstalk radio show.

All the experts agreed that Pearse only ever used:

1. Patrick Pearse
2. Pádraig Mac Piarais
3. P H Pearse

He was very particular never to mix Irish and English. So Padraig Pearse is a term he never used but it hardly matters nowadays as most people use it.

Fratton Fred

Jackie laughlin wrote:

Templeton,
It's a long, long time since I was there. I'll never go back because of the yard.

Was it just the 1916 prisoners that were shot there or were the anti treaty prisoners executed there as well?

If not, where did the free staters hold anti treaty prisoners?

boneless

McArmalite wrote: »

Yeah, I think it's offical policy of the OPW to have a 'watered down' version of Irish history. For instance, I done the tour of King John's castle in Trim. Good tour and excellent tour guide. But if you read the wording of the plaques telling the history of the castle etc, phrases like " the coming of the Normans" instead of - the invasion of the Normans, etc. Likewise I believe on the tour of Kilmainham, regarding the 1916 executions etc it's not referred to as eg. " on the orders of the British Govt", but - on the orders of the Govt of the day, that sort of thing. A sad state of affairs I agree, but that's 'offical' Ireland for you.

What Norman invasion? As far as I can make out from reading the sources, it was a hostile corporate take-over, aided and abetted by certain Irish chieftans and the reformed Roman Church...

As for Kilmainham Jail, the last time I was there the guide was so anti-Brit even I felt a bit uncomfortable; and I consider myself Republican. Saying that though, I notice (thankfully) that some of the guides are encompassing more and more of the social history attached to the site. A lot more ordinary folk wen through there than political prisoners.

Jackie laughlin

Boneless,
You'll bring the wrath of the "800 years of Brititish occupation" crowd down on you!

How many of those executed in 1916 were Normans?

boneless

Jackie laughlin wrote: »

Boneless,
You'll bring the wrath of the "800 years of Brititish occupation" crowd down on you!

How many of those executed in 1916 were Normans?

Heuston, Colbert, Clarke... French, possibly Norman names...:p Not to mention Plunkett...

Connolly was born in Edinburgh; Clarke on the Isle of White and PH Pearse had an English father... should I run away and hide now??:D

McArmalite

Jackie laughlin wrote: »

Boneless,
You'll bring the wrath of the "800 years of Brititish occupation" crowd down on you!

How many of those executed in 1916 were Normans?

As usual, Jackie laughlin has to throw in her usual putdown and smart remark on Irish nationalism. The thing about the " lets ingratiate ourselves with the loyalists and unionists, " brigade, they tried so hard, that they ended up sounding and becoming unionists in the end.

And why only the putdown for nationalism Jackie ? No more than your token condemnation of the RUC/brits murders, why no jokes/derogatory comments on say, the blitz on britian during WW2, the deaths of thousands of the unionists at the Somme ? etc

Erin Go Brath

Just visited once, and I have to say I was impressed with the quality of the tour. The girl who was doing it knew her stuff and presented it well. The 1916 crew and story behind them are the highlight of tour i suppose you could say, so its only to be expected that they concentrate on that episode.

Interestingly C.S. Parnell had his own special room with his own furniture etc. They took good care of that boy that's for sure, unlike the poor old 1916 rebels.

Jackie laughlin

For the umpteenth time plus one, a condemnation of Irish brutality and/or stupidity does not imply support for British thuggery and/or stupidity. However, as a proud Irish person, I am much more concerned about the actions of my fellow Irish.

McArmalite

Jackie laughlin wrote: »

For the umpteenth time plus one, a condemnation of Irish brutality and/or stupidity does not imply support for British thuggery and/or stupidity. However, as a proud Irish person, I am much more concerned about the actions of my fellow Irish.

To focus on the actions of one (the Irish) while practically ignoring the actions of the other (british/loyalists), ( I've only seen 1 token comment from her in all the times I've been on board.ie regarding british murders) is called gross hypocrisy. I'm not going to argue with you, their's no one better at undermineing and contradicting your own posts than yourself

DublinWriter

cowzerp wrote: »

My brother was in kilmainham gaol the other day and got the tour from a latvian girl! she kept calling padraic pearce-patrick and did not know any irish history! i think this is a sad state of affairs-any opinions?

Meh. Brought an English friend over to do the whole Dublin-Tourist-Bus thing recently one very rainy Saturday. We stopped off at Kilmainham and the tour did what it said on the tin.

However, I do remember a time when the Dublin Tour-bus drivers' banter was legendary and they were almost like defacto stand-up comics.

This time hopping on and off the buses at various locations revealed that the drivers were mainly Eastern European and Central American in origin. Some of their announcements of the impending stops in almost intelligible accents were met with howls of laugher by some of the American and German tourists on board.

I'm not saying it's a good or a bad thing, that was just my experience.

ScottishDanny

Was it just the 1916 prisoners that were shot there or were the anti treaty prisoners executed there as well?

If not, where did the free staters hold anti treaty prisoners?

Anti-Treaty IRA prisoners were held (and executed) there too. There is a plaque to 4 anti-treaty IRA prisoners who were executed there as a reprisal for the killing of Kevin O'Higgins.

Peadar O'Donnell was a prisoner there and in his book 'The Gates Flew Open' mentions that the anti-treaty prisoners said an act of contrition in the prison when the news came in that Michael Collins had been killed.

man1

cowzerp wrote: »

My brother was in kilmainham gaol the other day and got the tour from a latvian girl! she kept calling padraic pearce-patrick and did not know any irish history! i think this is a sad state of affairs-any opinions?

"padraic" was always known as patrick while he was alive, it is just that history has remembered (changed) his name to padraic or padraig.
Like eamonn ceannt was edward kent, sean macdiarmada was john macdermott etc..

man1

ScottishDanny wrote: »

Anti-Treaty IRA prisoners were held (and executed) there too. There is a plaque to 4 anti-treaty IRA prisoners who were executed there as a reprisal for the killing of Kevin O'Higgins.

Peadar O'Donnell was a prisoner there and in his book 'The Gates Flew Open' mentions that the anti-treaty prisoners said an act of contrition in the prison when the news came in that Michael Collins had been killed.

O'Higgans was killed in 1927 by 3 IRA men who were never caught for this crime.
I think you are thinking of the 4 anti-treaty prisoners who were shot for killing sean hales. They were held and executed at Mountjoy jail where most anti-treaty prisoners were held.

ScottishDanny

I stand corrected. On the Pearse thing. I'm failry sure he signed orders during Easter Week 'Mac Piaras' - but I've been wrong before :rolleyes:

man1

ScottishDanny wrote: »

I stand corrected. On the Pearse thing. I'm failry sure he signed orders during Easter Week 'Mac Piaras' - but I've been wrong before :rolleyes:

No worries.
It was P.H. Pearse (patrick henry pearse)

An Ri rua

Snickers Man wrote: »

So what's your point?

Even given that it's off topic. I hate it when people jump to conclusions about points that I make. Before denouncing your views as trite, unfounded, treasonous and worthy of the vilest retribution, I just want to be sure that they do indeed merit such a response.

And of course, for the record, the king in question was not King of Ireland, but of a region. So they did in fact invade Ireland as a whole, after their initial successes in the southeast.

Locamon

Deleted User wrote: »

hi

I remember going to Kilmainham, when the tour was given by the old lads who restored the building from a shell in the 1960s.
The jail was only handed over to the state in the 1970s??, as the original group of men were too old to carry on.
At the time form what i remember the jail was only open on Sunday afternoon.
Have to say, I preferred the tour given by the old lads, to the professional guides,

I have to agree with this, never forgot that tour and they had a little bit extra to tell depending on whatever area you were most interested in. I thought it was the early eighties but then I have to admit I was here for the 70s too. It really made an impact because they were old guys and you felt like they had almost lived some of the history.
I have no issue with any nationality giving the tour but they should try to allow experts local or otherwise to get involved. Maybe on a Sunday afternoon they could put on a special tour for those with a real interest as most tourists just want the Walt Disney run around and in fairness language skills are more important in those situations.

ukulelvis

I did the tour last week with a friend over from England. I've been three or four times before, but the guide we had was the best I've ever seen. Her name's Rosemary, a little, middle-aged woman with dark red hair.

She dropped in so many little facts I'd not heard on the tours before, like the altar in the chapel being carved by a 17 year old serving seven years for stealing the wheel off a cart. She was funny where it was appropriate and talked about the tragic elements with real poignancy.