Explain this to me....

Darragh29

Tauren wrote:

yeah - but you pootling along behind them and in the driving lane isn't going to get them to move either. a quick flash of the lights might get the job done.

Flashing lights at someone only does one thing. It makes them slow down to piss you off! It also greatly increases the likelyhood of someone getting out of a car and having a physical confrontation with you, should you find yourself stopped side by side at a set of traffic lights a few miles down the road, as I've seen happen once.

antodeco

Gwynston wrote:

Eh? Well I for one don't understand what you're referring to there....
Please explain....

There is no "overtaking lane" on a dual carriageway, Both right lane and left lane are of equal importance because there are turning junctions both right and left. You are fully entitled to drive in whatever lane you wish and overtake in whatever lane you wish, once safe to do so

Anan1

antodeco wrote:

There is no "overtaking lane" on a dual carriageway, Both right lane and left lane are of equal importance because there are turning junctions both right and left. You are fully entitled to drive in whatever lane you wish and overtake in whatever lane you wish, once safe to do so

Back to the ROTR for you, i'm afraid.

antodeco

Anan1 wrote:

Back to the ROTR for you, i'm afraid.

Yup!! Apologies! I kinda re-read what I wrote!! You are fully entitled to drive in the right lane if you are intending to turn right ahead. You can enter the left lane to overtake THAT car, but as a rule not constantly use the left lane for overtaking!

Exception to the rule, would be the naas road. either the middle lane or far left lane can be used for "normal" driving

My mistake, so apologies again

xabi

antodeco wrote:

There is no "overtaking lane" on a dual carriageway, Both right lane and left lane are of equal importance because there are turning junctions both right and left. You are fully entitled to drive in whatever lane you wish and overtake in whatever lane you wish, once safe to do so

Oh my God!

Biro

Darragh29 wrote:

I don't know where other people here learnt to read, but when I read the above statement, the only conclusion I can draw from someone who says they "slow down and pull into the overtaking lane behind them" is that by driving behind them, close enough to flast their lights at them for the purposes of intimidating another driver out of their way, is that they are TAILGATING. Have you ever seen a driver flashing lights at someone in front of them from two miles behind the car they are flashing??? No, didn't think so, the poster was obviously tailgating another driver and as for flashing lights at someone, we all know what the general consensus is of drivers who do this.

There seems to be a very qualified acceptance of the rules of the road on this thread. This attitude of, "if I want to do 140KPH in the lovertaking lane, that's my business so get the fu*k out of my way and get into your box in the left hand lane", is just pure ignorance in my opinion. You can't complain about someone doing 90KPH in the overtaking lane and then say in the same breath that someone who is in the OP's position is wrong for staying in the overtaking lane and doing 120KPH when you want to really be overtaking him at 140KPH, or in any event overtaking him at greater speed than he is travelliing at, thereby making you breach the speed limit.

Apparently one of the biggest causes of road fatalities in this country is speed, so if you are condoning the behaviour that the OP is referring to, you are supporting people who are causing fatalities on our roads, in fact you are most likely to be one of those contributors yourself in the future.

So you're saying that anyone who is in the overtaking lane at the speed limit is perfectly right and anyone who comes up behind them and wants to over take them is just a mass murderer and a statistic waiting to happen cause they want to speed and speed kills? Is that it?

unkel

Ger the man wrote:

I dont understand why people have to race out of the toll

There's no point doing it on a busy M50, but I nearly always floor it either direction on the tolls of both M1 and M4 provided the road is near empty. No better place to do a 0-something (:D) safely on our roads imho

unkel

maoleary wrote:

Right lane is for overtaking only. If you are not overtaking, get the f*%k out of it!!

QFT!

Stark

antodeco wrote:

Exception to the rule, would be the naas road. either the middle lane or far left lane can be used for "normal" driving

My mistake, so apologies again

You're still wrong. The middle lane should only be used when there's slower traffic in the far left lane. The rules are more relaxed than with the far right lane though as in you don't have to move in and out of gaps in the slower traffic.

Darragh29 wrote:

There seems to be a very qualified acceptance of the rules of the road on this thread. This attitude of, "if I want to do 140KPH in the lovertaking lane, that's my business so get the fu*k out of my way and get into your box in the left hand lane", is just pure ignorance in my opinion. You can't complain about someone doing 90KPH in the overtaking lane and then say in the same breath that someone who is in the OP's position is wrong for staying in the overtaking lane and doing 120KPH when you want to really be overtaking him at 140KPH, or in any event overtaking him at greater speed than he is travelliing at, thereby making you breach the speed limit.

Sitting in the overtaking lane doesn't just inconvenience those who want to break the speed limit. It also makes it harder for cars in the driving lane to overtake slower vehicles if there are people sitting in the overtaking lane. Especially I find when the car who's sitting just behind you to your right is the kind to vigorously defend your road space by speeding up and flashing you every time you want to move over to overtake someone.

Besides, not everyone's speedo is calibrated the same.

unkel

Sound points, Stark. I couldn't agree more

Mitch Connor

Darragh29 wrote:

I don't know where other people here learnt to read, but when I read the above statement, the only conclusion I can draw from someone who says they "slow down and pull into the overtaking lane behind them" is that by driving behind them, close enough to flast their lights at them for the purposes of intimidating another driver out of their way, is that they are TAILGATING. Have you ever seen a driver flashing lights at someone in front of them from two miles behind the car they are flashing??? No, didn't think so, the poster was obviously tailgating another driver and as for flashing lights at someone, we all know what the general consensus is of drivers who do this.

There seems to be a very qualified acceptance of the rules of the road on this thread. This attitude of, "if I want to do 140KPH in the lovertaking lane, that's my business so get the fu*k out of my way and get into your box in the left hand lane", is just pure ignorance in my opinion. You can't complain about someone doing 90KPH in the overtaking lane and then say in the same breath that someone who is in the OP's position is wrong for staying in the overtaking lane and doing 120KPH when you want to really be overtaking him at 140KPH, or in any event overtaking him at greater speed than he is travelliing at, thereby making you breach the speed limit.

Apparently one of the biggest causes of road fatalities in this country is speed, so if you are condoning the behaviour that the OP is referring to, you are supporting people who are causing fatalities on our roads, in fact you are most likely to be one of those contributors yourself in the future.

IMO - if you can flash your lights, you can't be tailgating, as you would be too damn close to the car in front - they wouldn't even see your lights.

I can pull in behind someone at a safe distance, and they will still see me, and my luights flash - my car doesn't become invisible.

Darragh29

Biro wrote:

So you're saying that anyone who is in the overtaking lane at the speed limit is perfectly right and anyone who comes up behind them and wants to over take them is just a mass murderer and a statistic waiting to happen cause they want to speed and speed kills? Is that it?

What I'm saying couldn't be clearer. Don't come on here slating people who are driving at the speed limit in the overtaking lane when you just want them to get out of your way so that you can then go and break the speed limit yourself. If you are breaking the speed limit, you are the biggest risk of causing an accdent or fatality where you are at that time.

Look, we've all experienced this at some stage or another, you're overtaking a vehicle or line of vehicles and out of nowhere this absolute assh*le appears behind you who has been doing 150KPH upwards in the overtaking lane for the last few miles until he met you there and now wants to continue doing 150KPH when you are sticking to the speed limit but still overtaking a line of cars, he's up your arse and flashing lights at you but you only have three options: (1) slow down to let the cars beside you pass you by and pull in behind them, (2) speed up and break the speed limit and he will still be flashing you and up your arse until you are going as fast as he wants to be going, or else (3) continue along at the speed limit and just suffer him.

Some of the people on this thread sound like this driver, with their "get out of my fu*kin' way" mentality. I suggest that if you are one of these drivers, you should have your licence taken off you because you are a serious risk to other road users. I've never flashed another driver in this situation in my life, I think it's the height of ignorance. Even if they are doing 80KPH on a motorway in an overtaking lane, it's not my job to police or indeed direct someone in this situation.

Darragh29

Tauren wrote:

IMO - if you can flash your lights, you can't be tailgating, as you would be too damn close to the car in front - they wouldn't even see your lights.

I can pull in behind someone at a safe distance, and they will still see me, and my luights flash - my car doesn't become invisible.

You must be driving a Brennan's breadtruck or something.

Mitch Connor

Darragh29 wrote:

What I'm saying couldn't be clearer. Don't come on here slating people who are driving at the speed limit in the overtaking lane when you just want them to get out of your way so that you can then go and break the speed limit yourself. If you are breaking the speed limit, you are the biggest risk of causing an accdent or fatality where you are at that time.

Look, we've all experienced this at some stage or another, you're overtaking a vehicle or line of vehicles and out of nowhere this absolute assh*le appears behind you who has been doing 150KPH upwards in the overtaking lane for the last few miles until he met you there and now wants to continue doing 150KPH when you are sticking to the speed limit but still overtaking a line of cars, he's up your arse and flashing lights at you but you only have three options: (1) slow down to let the cars beside you pass you by and pull in behind them, (2) speed up and break the speed limit and he will still be flashing you and up your arse until you are going as fast as he wants to be going, or else (3) continue along at the speed limit and just suffer him.

Some of the people on this thread sound like this driver, with their "get out of my fu*kin' way" mentality. I suggest that if you are one of these drivers, you should have your licence taken off you because you are a serious risk to other road users. I've never flashed another driver in this situation in my life, I think it's the height of ignorance. Even if they are doing 80KPH on a motorway in an overtaking lane, it's not my job to police or indeed direct someone in this situation.

I don't think anyone is saying you should flash you lights at someone in the overtaking lane, while they are over-taking.

I will pull in behind someone, and flash my lights if they do not move IF they are not doing the speed limit AND they are not overtaking anyone.

That is what I, and others, have been saying.

Mitch Connor

Darragh29 wrote:

You must be driving a Brennan's breadtruck or something.

erm...no...I drive a Mazda 323f. Why on earth would i seemingly have to be driving a bread truck?

Gwynston

Darragh29 wrote:

Flashing lights at someone only does one thing. It makes them slow down to piss you off! It also greatly increases the likelyhood of someone getting out of a car and having a physical confrontation with you, should you find yourself stopped side by side at a set of traffic lights a few miles down the road, as I've seen happen once.

Flashing lights is completely valid in a situation where someone is in the outside lane, but isn't overtaking anyone and you want to get past. I can't condone flashing lights to intimidate someone, but according to the ROTR, the only use for flashing is to warn someone of your presence (same as sounding your horn).

So it's the person in front's problem if they take it as overly aggressive, when it isn't.

Darragh29

Tauren wrote:

I don't think anyone is saying you should flash you lights at someone in the overtaking lane, while they are over-taking.

I will pull in behind someone, and flash my lights if they do not move IF they are not doing the speed limit AND they are not overtaking anyone.

That is what I, and others, have been saying.

That sounds a little bit too sanitised for me Tauren.

If you flash your lights at someone in this situation I think you are wrong. It's not your place to direct anyone on the road to do anything, regardless of whether their driving is a hinderance to you or not. If you give them enough time, they'll eventually pull over. What causes you to flash is your lack of patience, not their driving skill or lack of it as the case may be. I once saw someone who was being flashed at for two miles, getting out of his car and physically confronting the person who was flashing him when he found himself stopped at lights beside him a few miles down the road and I have to say I wasn't surprised, it's extremely annoying and does nothing to actually get someone out of your way. What's the hurry??? Is the world going to end if you have to slow down a bit and wait for someone to move out of your way in their own time???

daedalus2097

Wow, wasn't expecting that response. Right, allow me to clarify this situation I'm talking about. Two cars on a straight stretch of motorway. I'm in the left lane, doing the speed limit. One car is in front of me, doing well under the speed limit. This car is also in the right hand lane. What do I do? Do I

a) Slow down to much slower than the speed limit and stay in the left lane so I don't undertake the car which is dawdling? Bear in mind it's a straight stretch, no cars, broad daylight, perfect conditions. When the other traffic catches up behind us then the whole motorway will be blocked by two dawdling cars.

b) Undertake the car that's dawdling? Thus leaving one lane free to allow cars travelling at motorway speeds to pass - albeit the wrong lane.

c) Move into the overtaking lane in the hope that the dawdling car realises I'm attempting to overtake him, realises (s)he's in the wrong lane and pulls over to allow me to complete the overtaking manoevre?

What I did was point a) for a while. When the driver didn't realise what was happening after a minute or two I indicated, moved into the lane behind him as if I was to overtake him. When the driver still sat there oblivious to me for a while I flashed them and eventually they moved into the correct lane to allow me to overtake. Once I had completed this however and was back in the left lane, they once again moved out into the overtaking lane for no reason.

I was not tailgating as I kept a respectful distance behind the car. Maybe I should be clearer about the situations in my posts, but I really think the likes of you Darragh shouldn't assume things about situations you know nothing about apart from sketchy details from someone else's post taken at an angle to suit yourself.

Dwilly

The very odd time I've been in the right hand lane not overtaking purely by accident and been flashed. I don't think it's aggressive, I realise I should be in the other lane and move over.

It's the same thing if you're not paying attention at the traffic lights when they turn green. It's not intimidating and no-one should take it that way. :cool:

Mitch Connor

Darragh29 wrote:

That sounds a little bit too sanitised for me Tauren.

If you flash your lights at someone in this situation I think you are wrong. It's not your place to direct anyone on the road to do anything, regardless of whether their driving is a hinderance to you or not. If you give them enough time, they'll eventually pull over. What causes you to flash is your lack of patience, not their driving skill or lack of it as the case may be. I once saw someone who was being flashed at for two miles, getting out of his car and physically confronting the person who was flashing him when he found himself stopped at lights beside him a few miles down the road and I have to say I wasn't surprised, it's extremely annoying and does nothing to actually get someone out of your way. What's the hurry??? Is the world going to end if you have to slow down a bit and wait for someone to move out of your way in their own time???

Fine, we disagree.

BrianD3

As often happens in this debate people seem to be seeing things in black and white when it truth it's a bit less clear cut. There are many examples of w*nker behaviour on motorways both from drivers driving too fast/aggressively and driver hogging overtaking lanes, not paying attention etc.

For example:
-Aggressive drivers (probably breaking the speed limit by a fair margin) who expect the overtaking lane to be kept clear for them for miles ahead. W*nkers

-Drivers overtaking at 0.1 km/h more than the vehicle they're overtaking, probably well below the speed limit too. W*nkers

-Drivers who expect other drivers to complete their overtaking and get out of the way in 0.1 seconds. W*nkers.

-Drivers hogging the overtaking lane while not overtaking anything, speed irrelevant. W*nkers.

-Drivers who pull out into the overtaking lane cutting up drivers who have already started to overtake and are now forced to brake. W*nkers.

-Drivers so aggressive that they expect to be able to drive at whatever speed they want and don't believe they should ever have to lift off the throttle. W*nkers

-Driver who merge slowly. W*nkers

-Drivers on the mainline who tailgate and deliberately close gaps to block mergers. W*nkers.

Marcus.Aurelius

Darragh29 wrote:

What I'm saying couldn't be clearer. Don't come on here slating people who are driving at the speed limit in the overtaking lane when you just want them to get out of your way so that you can then go and break the speed limit yourself. If you are breaking the speed limit, you are the biggest risk of causing an accdent or fatality where you are at that time.

Look, we've all experienced this at some stage or another, you're overtaking a vehicle or line of vehicles and out of nowhere this absolute assh*le appears behind you who has been doing 150KPH upwards in the overtaking lane for the last few miles until he met you there and now wants to continue doing 150KPH when you are sticking to the speed limit but still overtaking a line of cars, he's up your arse and flashing lights at you but you only have three options: (1) slow down to let the cars beside you pass you by and pull in behind them, (2) speed up and break the speed limit and he will still be flashing you and up your arse until you are going as fast as he wants to be going, or else (3) continue along at the speed limit and just suffer him.

Some of the people on this thread sound like this driver, with their "get out of my fu*kin' way" mentality. I suggest that if you are one of these drivers, you should have your licence taken off you because you are a serious risk to other road users. I've never flashed another driver in this situation in my life, I think it's the height of ignorance. Even if they are doing 80KPH on a motorway in an overtaking lane, it's not my job to police or indeed direct someone in this situation.

You are not there to police the roads. If you are in the overtaking lane, and you are not overtaking, you are bound by the rules of the road to move into the driving lane. Period.

Darragh29

daedalus2097 wrote:

I was not tailgating as I kept a respectful distance behind the car.

Never said you were, maybe you should read my replies

daedalus2097 wrote:

Maybe I should be clearer about the situations in my posts, but I really think the likes of you Darragh shouldn't assume things about situations you know nothing about apart from sketchy details from someone else's post taken at an angle to suit yourself.

Was talking more about my own experience of driving and in particular, driving in the overtaking lane usually overtaking someone and having some c*nt try to flash me out of the way because he or she wants to continue doing 150KPH down the road and I'm in the way minding my own business and not breaking the speed limit. Your OP sounded similar, hence why I posted. Maybe you shouldn't bother creating a thread here if your not open to the experience of others who use this forum.

Darragh29

maoleary wrote:

You are not there to police the roads. If you are in the overtaking lane, and you are not overtaking, you are bound by the rules of the road to move into the driving lane. Period.

Exactly my point, nobody should be policing the driving of others by flashing at them in an intimidating manner, it's not open to them to do this. My point was that if I'm overtaking someone legally and some muppet comes up behind me from nowhere driving in excess of 140KPH and starts flashing at me to get out of their way so that they can continue to break the law, I'm not going to pull over or go anywhere, period.

Marcus.Aurelius

Darragh29 wrote:

Never said you were, maybe you should read my replies


Was talking more about my own experience of driving and in particular, driving in the overtaking lane usually overtaking someone and having some c*nt try to flash me out of the way because he or she wants to continue doing 150KPH down the road and I'm in the way minding my own business and not breaking the speed limit. Your OP sounded similar, hence why I posted. Maybe you shouldn't bother creating a thread here if your not open to the experience of others who use this forum.

People who flash others who are overtaking others below the speed limit have a decent point. If you're going to do it, get on with the job.

I would disagree wholeheartedly with those who flash others going at the limit (120 kph) overtaking a car or two. As long as the overtake is quick and at the limit, I have no problem whatsoever. Is that what you meant?

Marcus.Aurelius

Darragh29 wrote:

Exactly my point, nobody should be policing the driving of others by flashing at them in an intimidating manner, it's not open to them to do this. My point was that if I'm overtaking someone legally and some muppet comes up behind me from nowhere driving in excess of 140KPH and starts flashing at me to get out of their way so that they can continue to break the law, I'm not going to pull over or go anywhere, period.

If you have room to pull in, and you are not overtaking anymore, I assume that you do pull into the driving lane then?

Mitch Connor

Darragh29 wrote:

Never said you were, maybe you should read my replies

Maybe you should not lie.

Darragh29 wrote:

Hmm, tailgating someone and then flashing headlights. Sounds like you are definitely part of the problem on our roads.

Anan1

Darragh29 wrote:

Exactly my point, nobody should be policing the driving of others by flashing at them in an intimidating manner, it's not open to them to do this. My point was that if I'm overtaking someone legally and some muppet comes up behind me from nowhere driving in excess of 140KPH and starts flashing at me to get out of their way so that they can continue to break the law, I'm not going to pull over or go anywhere, period.

I'm not too clear on what you're saying here. I would never flash someone who was overtaking, regardless of speed. I would, however, flash someone who was driving in the overtaking lane when the left lane was empty.

MrPudding

Darragh29 wrote:

Exactly my point, nobody should be policing the driving of others by flashing at them in an intimidating manner, it's not open to them to do this. My point was that if I'm overtaking someone legally and some muppet comes up behind me from nowhere driving in excess of 140KPH and starts flashing at me to get out of their way so that they can continue to break the law, I'm not going to pull over or go anywhere, period.

It is perfectly legal and proper to flash you lights in order to alert another road user to your presense. And by the way, how do you flash you lights in an "intimidating" way? Mine go on or off, I don't have an "aggresive flash" setting.

On mainland Europe you will see cars approaching fast from behind flashing you from hundreds of metres behind you. No one seems to find it aggressive there.

If a driver decides that the person behind them flashing there light is an excuse to slow down or start a fight when they come to a stop, that says more about the recipient of the flash than the person who flashed.

For me it is quite simple. If you are in the act of overtaking a car and someone comes up behind you and starts to hassle you then that person is a cnut. If you are in the outside lane when the inside lane is empty or has space for you, but you choose to stay in the outside lane, and a driver moving faster than you gives you a flash to altert you to their presence and you take this action as a sign of aggression and slow down, then I believe that makes you the cnut.

Leave the policing of the road to the people that get paid to do it. Oh, and I believe the figures show excessive speed to be the casue of around 12% of incidents on Irish roads, the figure are in one of the speeding threads posted recently.

MrP

Darragh29

MrPudding wrote:

It is perfectly legal and proper to flash you lights in order to alert another road user to your presense. And by the way, how do you flash you lights in an "intimidating" way? Mine go on or off, I don't have an "aggresive flash" setting.

On mainland Europe you will see cars approaching fast from behind flashing you from hundreds of metres behind you. No one seems to find it aggressive there.

If a driver decides that the person behind them flashing there light is an excuse to slow down or start a fight when they come to a stop, that says more about the recipient of the flash than the person who flashed.

For me it is quite simple. If you are in the act of overtaking a car and someone comes up behind you and starts to hassle you then that person is a cnut. If you are in the outside lane when the inside lane is empty or has space for you, but you choose to stay in the outside lane, and a driver moving faster than you gives you a flash to altert you to their presence and you take this action as a sign of aggression and slow down, then I believe that makes you the cnut.

Leave the policing of the road to the people that get paid to do it. Oh, and I believe the figures show excessive speed to be the casue of around 12% of incidents on Irish roads, the figure are in one of the speeding threads posted recently.

MrP

The only drivers I've ever seen who've flashed me are those that are doing 140KPH upwards. If there is suddenly a cohort of drivers here on this thread who "only flash people doing under the speed limit", then this is entierly inconsistent with what I see on the road regularly. If you flash at someone to get them to move out of your way, you are ignorant adn you are most likely speeding in excess of the limit, that's my opinion, based on my daily experience while driving. I can't speak for someone who is flashed at when they are doing 90KPH on a motorway, I can only speak for the driver who is doing way in excess of the limit and flashes EVERYONE out of his/her way, whether they are overtaking or not. I don't accept that the people on this thread who condone flashing aer not also speeding, as the only people I see who flash at other drivers to get out of their way in an overtaking lane are those that are speeding excessively.