Where can one find an Olympic Weightlifting coach in Dublin?

Marathon Man

Hi, I am a runner who is currently training to boost my power. I train in weights three times per week in a mixture of free weights and machines. However, i have reached a ceiling on many of the machines i.e. chest press and seated row where its not possible to go any higher in terms of weight. Recently I've been drawn to taking up some Olympic lifting to increase my power as 'the skys the limit' in terms of possible weight being used. After 2 weeks i can comfortably deadlift 100 kg @ 3 sets of 6 and wish to properly learn clean and jerk and snatch techniques. Are there any clubs where one can pop down to say once a week and for a reasonable price be taught proper Olympic weightlifting technique?

yomchi

The hercs' down in Lurgan street D7 would be a good start. Our very own Hanley trains down there.

Marathon Man

I'll definetly check that place out. Thanks.

thirtyfoot

With a username like that this could be a stupid question but what distance do you run, and when you say boost your power do you mean during a race or do you just mean improve what you can lift?

Beelzebub

Marathon Man wrote:

Hi, I am a runner who is currently training to boost my power. I train in weights three times per week in a mixture of free weights and machines. However, i have reached a ceiling on many of the machines i.e. chest press and seated row where its not possible to go any higher in terms of weight. Recently I've been drawn to taking up some Olympic lifting to increase my power as 'the skys the limit' in terms of possible weight being used. After 2 weeks i can comfortably deadlift 100 kg @ 3 sets of 6 and wish to properly learn clean and jerk and snatch techniques. Are there any clubs where one can pop down to say once a week and for a reasonable price be taught proper Olympic weightlifting technique?

That's impressive for a runner!

http://www.coachingireland.com/article/article_167.shtml

The Hercules Club - Tommy Hayden.

Hanley

If you can only deadlift 100 3x6 then the olympic lifts are going to be little good to you.

Bluntly, you lack the strength to effectively increase your power.

Squats would be a much better option in my opinion.

slemons

nice condescending advice again hanley. wouldnt it be great if we were all as perfect as you.

marathon man, hercs is a good place to find a coach. lots of knowledgeable people up there. but if you cant make it up there and it has a lifting curfew of 7pm for olympic lifts, then you most definitely can train yourself. there are lots of good resources online. im not at home now and havent got my bookmarks to link to them but i will do afterwards.

Self taught you wont make you a top lifter, but thats not your aim. you should be able to lift safely and increase you power a nice bit.

Im not sure how thats going to help for marathons though.
it would help a lot for sprinting, as would medicine ball throws, uphill sprints, sled drags, unilateral weights like pitols, bulgarians, stepups and the good ole squat nice and deep!

good luck

Marathon Man

Tingle wrote:

With a username like that this could be a stupid question but what distance do you run, and when you say boost your power do you mean during a race or do you just mean improve what you can lift?

My user name refers to my favourite film, marathon man. I am a middle distance runner i.e. 800-1500. Surely increasing the amount I can lift will have a knock on effect in my running.

Marathon Man

Hanley wrote:

If you can only deadlift 100 3x6 then the olympic lifts are going to be little good to you.

Bluntly, you lack the strength to effectively increase your power.

Squats would be a much better option in my opinion.

I'm not training to be a lifter. Since yesterday I can do 115 kg @ 3 sets of 6 which i do at the end of a two hour weight and circuit session. In addition to this I run between 40 and 60 miles a week most of which is at a high intensity, swim three times a week and cycle 60 miles too. If lifting weights was all that I did, I would be 'the man'. Thanks for your kind and measured advice.

ali.c

Marathon Man wrote:

I'm not training to be a lifter. Since yesterday I can do 115 kg @ 3 sets of 6 which i do at the end of a two hour weight and circuit session. In addition to this I run between 40 and 60 miles a week most of which is at a high intensity, swim three times a week and cycle 60 miles too. If lifting weights was all that I did, I would be 'the man'. Thanks for your kind and measured advice.

This is not a criticism in any way shape or form, but i usually do deads close to the start of a session. Basically because when i get tired my form gets a bit sloppy. Though in saying all that if you can lift that at the end of a tough session then you probably have a lot more in you IMO.

I dont have alot of experience with olympic lifts, but technique and form are very important from my experience so if you can get someone to run through them with you i think it would be very worthwhile.

thirtyfoot

Marathon Man wrote:

Surely increasing the amount I can lift will have a knock on effect in my running.

It may not be a positive one though, if it always was then powerlifters like Hanley would be able to run a 1:45 800m:D . From my experience your strength work needs to be smartly intergrated to your total training programme. If you are a MD runner who runs 40-60miles a week why train like a powerlifter. Doing the olympic lifts will probably make you stronger but it won't automatically make you faster which is probably your ultimate goal.

Hanley

slemons wrote:

nice condescending advice again hanley. wouldnt it be great if we were all as perfect as you.

Oh why don't you just shut up and attempt to comprhend my advice instead of trolling looking for fights?

The OP could make great progress in his power output by increasing his squatting and deadlifting strength alone. Would you not agree?

Simple movements worked hard that will have a noticable effect on power -v- complicaed movements that are VERY technique dependant and will only start to have a positive effect on power output once sufficent technical ability is present and progress isn't caused by motor learning but increased power and strength.

How is that bad advice? (sorry, I'm condascending but is my advice at least good?)

Would you rather spend months and months learning overly complicated movements which can be quite dangerous when you don't know what you're doing or just bust a$$ on the basics?

Do you think the olympic lifts would be more beneficial to the OP than squats and deadlifts?

Hanley

Marathon Man wrote:

I'm not training to be a lifter. Since yesterday I can do 115 kg @ 3 sets of 6 which i do at the end of a two hour weight and circuit session. In addition to this I run between 40 and 60 miles a week most of which is at a high intensity, swim three times a week and cycle 60 miles too. If lifting weights was all that I did, I would be 'the man'. Thanks for your kind and measured advice.

Wait, wait.

You're not training to be a lifter, yet you want to spend alot of time learning the most complicated lifts out there??

I commend your other fitness abilities and you're obviously much more capable than I am in that regard.

Marathon Man

Hanley wrote:

Wait, wait.

You're not training to be a lifter, yet you want to spend alot of time learning the most complicated lifts out there??

I commend your other fitness abilities and you're obviously much more capable than I am in that regard.

Ah i see exactly what you mean. Your first post seemed a little abrupt but now I can see that you speak a lot of sense. Both squats and deadlifts are relatively simple technique-wise and both have a great effect on the prime movers in my event. Whereas it would take a long time, time that should be spent on event-specific training learning the complicated Olympic lifts.
However, I will be doing some power cleans as I already have them down.
I just thought it might be good to do some Olympic lifting as i read that the highest human power output occurs during these lifts.
Thank you.

Marathon Man

ali.c wrote:

This is not a criticism in any way shape or form, but i usually do deads close to the start of a session. Basically because when i get tired my form gets a bit sloppy. Though in saying all that if you can lift that at the end of a tough session then you probably have a lot more in you IMO.

Your quite right. I was thinking the same thing too. What I'm going to do is incorporate a day of stair sprints, hurdle jumps and other plyometrics with heavy squats, deadlifts and power cleans with plenty of recovery time between sets.

Hanley

Marathon Man wrote:

Ah i see exactly what you mean. Your first post seemed a little abrupt but now I can see that you speak a lot of sense. Both squats and deadlifts are relatively simple technique-wise and both have a great effect on the prime movers in my event. Whereas it would take a long time, time that should be spent on event-specific training learning the complicated Olympic lifts.

Bingo. Nail on the head my friend.

The thing about the powerlifts being stigmatised as non-power and pure brute strength occurs because of the loading people traditionally used.

Wth max squats and deadlifts you can grind them out over a long time period (think 6+ seconds). Not "powerful", but very strong.

Drop the bar weight tho to around 50-60% of your max and attempt to move it as fast as possible for 8 sets of 2 reps and BAM... power exercise (The Dynamic Effort Method springs to mind here)

You simply cannot do the olympic lifts slowly... they have to be done fast (powerfully) to be successful. I know all about the studies showing that the highest power output in sports occurs during olympic lifts (the snatch, I think?) but these studies are usually on highly trained individuals who are at least national if not world caliber. That strength, power and skill takes years upon years to obtain.

Squatting and deadlift might be (maybe??) 5-10% less efficent but are a whole lot simpler and results are a whole lot easier to come by.

By all means try to improve power output by weightlifting, but in my opinion it's going to hold you back. The time would be better spent just plain getting stronger. Suprisingly (sarcasm here obv!!) maximal strength and power are closely related.

Of coures the argument could be made that neither of the 2 are optimal and plyos would be abetter option but I know sweet FA about that so I'll say no more.

My advice to you would be to maybe do power cleans as a warm up to deadlifts. Best of both worlds really. The olympic lifts MUST be done when you're fresh or you'll suffer a whole lot. Also, it might be an idea to do your deadlifts before doing weight circuits since you're coming in fresh and can really concentrate on getting stronger/more powerful.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

davyjose

Hanley wrote:

Simple movements worked hard that will have a noticable effect on power -v- complicaed movements that are VERY technique dependant and will only start to have a positive effect on power output once sufficent technical ability is present and progress isn't caused by motor learning but increased power and strength.

Interesting! Would it be possible that he could spend time working on technique with lower weight while increasing strength with squats, deads, etc?
I always assumed that oly lifts would be better for the dynamic power needed for athletics(such as the ability to sprint), more than say a deadlift or a squat would be. No?

thirtyfoot

davyjose wrote:

Interesting! Would it be possible that he could spend time working on technique with lower weight while increasing strength with squats, deads, etc?
I always assumed that oly lifts would be better for the dynamic power needed for athletics(such as the ability to sprint), more than say a deadlift or a squat would be. No?

The olympic lifts are good for increasing the speed at which you deploy your force, but to get to a level where you can do olympic lifts at the required load and speed takes a lot of time and expertise. The deployment of your maximum force is naturally done while sprinting so your sprint training (pure speed work) combined with work on the compound exercises/plyos/core would probably suffice for the most sub-elite athlete. Its a trade off a coach has to make, you don't want your athletes spending too much time in the gym.

weightlifter

Hanley wrote: »

Wait, wait.

You're not training to be a lifter, yet you want to spend alot of time learning the most complicated lifts out there??

I commend your other fitness abilities and you're obviously much more capable than I am in that regard.

Hanley, I can see where you are coming from and I agree that without appropriate maximal strength there will be little power development/transfer from the olympic lifts. However a big problem is that many begin learning the olympic lifts too late. They wait until their squats are big and their deadlifts are big. Then when a good power gain can be accrued from learning the olympic lifts, the technique isnt there. It will take 6 months to earn the movements... 6 months wasted. Much better, imo, to being learning basic OL technique in tandem with basic strength development: squats, presses, deadlifts. The OL may not be giving immediate transfer to the sporting activity but the will help with coordination and flexibility. As the strength climbs in the squats and deads the potential for transfer from the OLs increases and they can be focused on a little more and more.

d-gal

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Probably because of the guys still needing to develop their flexibility and strength. Power is worth very little without strength. Also their is only around 5 decent olympic lifters in the whole country so top coaching is lacking major. If the guys can snatch 50kg in 6months it is impressive, ridiculously technical, thats why you probably think progress is slow.
personally I love the c&j, great movement and nothing better than going for a max lift on it!

Oh and one more point, the initial guy having a go at hanley, will you just shut up, he probably knows around 100 times more about this area than you and if you think you are going to learn oly lifts from a video than you should never enter this thread again, stupidest thing i ever heard

celestial

d-gal wrote: »

Oh and one more point, the initial guy having a go at hanley, will you just shut up, he probably knows around 100 times more about this area than you and if you think you are going to learn oly lifts from a video than you should never enter this thread again, stupidest thing i ever heard

Thread is a year and a half old nearly;)

Hanley

d-gal wrote: »

Probably because of the guys still needing to develop their flexibility and strength. Power is worth very little without strength. Also their is only around 5 decent olympic lifters in the whole country so top coaching is lacking major. If the guys can snatch 50kg in 6months it is impressive, ridiculously technical, thats why you probably think progress is slow.
personally I love the c&j, great movement and nothing better than going for a max lift on it!

Oh and one more point, the initial guy having a go at hanley, will you just shut up, he probably knows around 100 times more about this area than you and if you think you are going to learn oly lifts from a video than you should never enter this thread again, stupidest thing i ever heard

In fairness to the guy originally having a go, he was quite strong, pretty explosive and a good GAA player. He was still wrong tho

And like Celestial said... Necro-bump on this thread.

weightlifter

I dragged it up. I was looking for info on weightlifting in ireland. Thought it was a good discussion and wanted to chime in. No point having a search function if people cant use it and contribute to good conversations.

Mikel

Is there anyone in Ireland who competes in olys?
What kind of weight would they shift?

Roper

Wasabi who posts on here competes in the female division. Can't remember what she lifts, I'm sure she'll tell ya.

It should be noted though that weightlifters in Ireland tend to be adults who move to it after some other type of strength training or another sport. Elsewhere in all of the major lifting countries they have them from 6 years old training the movements. Saw a great vid the other week of a 14 year old c&jing 80kgs and he was only lifting supplementary to his own sport.

OP, even though this is a necro bump, was probably a little weak to gain maximum benefit, but there's no harm in including technical work on the lifts in your programme if you eventually plan to lift when you get strong enough. Also, the flexibility and movement required to do the O lifts is hugely beneficial.

g'em

Mikel wrote: »

Is there anyone in Ireland who competes in olys?
What kind of weight would they shift?

myself and wasabi both compete - she's been competing for around a year in the 69kg class, I started weightlifting about 3 months ago and had my first competition there at the weekend in the Connaught Open in the 75kg class. Last week Ireland had a team of 5 in the World University Weightlifting Championships and came 11th out of 29 overall. Not sure about the rest of the team but in the 69kg class Neil Dougan got 95/122 and Cathal Byrd lifted 107/140.

There's a fair few competitive weightlifters in Ireland, wasabi would know more of the names than I do, but there's 4 Provincial Competitions, as well as bigger National-level and smaller local level comps on every year.

Roper

Very good G'em what did you lift? How did Laura do?

g'em

45/60 - happy out with that, got 6/6, just wanted a nice solid performance for my first comp.

Laura wasn't competing but she's lifting at the Herc's club comp this weekend - not totally sure what she's aiming for but it's 50+/65+ iirc. Her lifts have come on amazingly recently, strong as hell these days, and she should weigh in <65kg. She's my hero *swoon*

weightlifter

107 + 140 is a vry good level in the 69kg weight class. 95+122 pretty decent too. Didnt realise Ireland had any lifters around that level or that there was much of a scene there.

Gem, you say you have only been training for 3 months? 45+60 is a very very good start. You will be clean and jerking bodyweight very very soon which is a nice milestone to reach.

g'em

weightlifter wrote: »

107 + 140 is a vry good level in the 69kg weight class. 95+122 pretty decent too. Didnt realise Ireland had any lifters around that level or that there was much of a scene there.

yeah, there's a fair few around - mostly based in UL from what I can tell!

weightlifter wrote:

you say you have only been training for 3 months? 45+60 is a very very good start. You will be clean and jerking bodyweight very very soon which is a nice milestone to reach.

Merci buckets. I was a powerlifter for 2 years before that though so these numbers are pitiful compared to what I'm used to I definitely have bw c&j in me, it's just a case of trying to improve my technique at this point. It's great fun though, and everyone I've met to date in weightlifting is absolutely fantastic so I can see myself doing this for a while!

Mikel

g'em wrote: »

yeah, there's a fair few around - mostly based in UL from what I can tell!

Merci buckets. I was a powerlifter for 2 years before that though so these numbers are pitiful compared to what I'm used to I definitely have bw c&j in me, it's just a case of trying to improve my technique at this point. It's great fun though, and everyone I've met to date in weightlifting is absolutely fantastic so I can see myself doing this for a while!

Compliments on your progress, I'd say it's lot of fun.
Would it be hard to get into though? It sounds like coaching would be hard to come by, and it seems to me it wouldn't be the smartest thing to do without some coaching

d-gal

Most of the lifters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wkizr_3gWc (ukraine camp)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrF9vzfObUs (ukraine camp)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGvHYsRJDx4 (cathal byrd 141kg c&j)

http://revver.com/video/507467/ul-weightlifting-novdec-2007/

http://revver.com/video/217909/nathy-o-connell-81kg-snatch/ (nathy o'c)

http://revver.com/video/217909/nathy-o-connell-81kg-snatch/ (mike conroy)

The records held are by Kevin D'arcy, 120/160 (roughly that off the top of my head) with Cathal Byrd only a kg or 2 behind pound for pound.
Claire Rooney by my understanding is currently the best female lifter.

Oh and didn't even read the dates, my bad!

g'em

Mikel wrote: »

Compliments on your progress, I'd say it's lot of fun.

Absolutely fantastically so!!

Mikel wrote:

Would it be hard to get into though? It sounds like coaching would be hard to come by, and it seems to me it wouldn't be the smartest thing to do without some coaching

Coaching is definitely hard to come by, and afaik Hercs is the only club in Dublin where coaching is on offer. I got lucky, I already knew wasabi, she introduced me to our coach and he agreed to take me on board. He's one of the best, if not the best, weightlifting coaches in the country. I definitely wouldn't recommend trying to get into weightlifting without a coach - the technique is unlike anything you come across from doing 'regular' lifting. I didn't use anything heavier than the bar for the first few weeks of training and even that was a struggle sometimes - a lot of OH work, very high volume, a huge amount of repetition, full body workouts every time you lift... but so, so much fun

g'em

d-gal wrote: »

The records held are by Kevin D'arcy, 120/160 (roughly that off the top of my head) with Cathal Byrd only a kg or 2 behind pound for pound.

Both were lifting last weekend - fantastic guys and jeebus do they know how to make big weights look light!!

d-gal wrote:

Claire Rooney by my understanding is currently the best female lifter.

Yup, but if wasabi keeps on track that could change very soon - watch this space!!

Pugmister

You could try some individual training sessions from this guy.

http://willheffernan.blogspot.com/

Hanley

Pugmister wrote: »

You could try some individual training sessions from this guy.

http://willheffernan.blogspot.com/

Judging by the form of some of the athletes in his videos, I wouldn't be asking him for advice on weightlifting.

I know he uses the excuse that max outs don't have to be pretty.... but if you've solid form to start with you'll have it at any weight.

Edit: Does he even use oly lifts with his athletes?

Pugmister

Hanley wrote: »

Judging by the form of some of the athletes in his videos, I wouldn't be asking him for advice on weightlifting.

I know he uses the excuse that max outs don't have to be pretty.... but if you've solid form to start with you'll have it at any weight.

Edit: Does he even use oly lifts with his athletes?

Im not sure, I saw the link posted n here so just read the blog from time to time. I do know a few lads who train in that gym and they speak very highly of him.

Roper

Hanley wrote: »

Edit: Does he even use oly lifts with his athletes?

With some of the ones that hit his strength standards, yes.

I'd second the get coaching point. I'm in the middle of my level 1 coaching cert at the mo and it's a very very easy thing to get hurt with at worst, and to get wrong at best. One way gets you injured and the other gets you nothing.


G'em,
Well done on the comp! Say hi to Laura for me there's an empty space on the mats down our way without her. When she left, 25% of our female membership went with her... true story.

Mikel

Roper wrote: »

I'm in the middle of my level 1 coaching cert at the mo and it's a very very easy thing to get hurt with at worst, and to get wrong at best. One way gets you injured and the other gets you nothing.

Where does one do this? Could be interesting to do
Also, what's the deal with the WH dude? Is it a 1 to 1 for an hour thing you do with him? What kind of stuff is it?

Roper

I'm doing it as part of another course but it runs in Hercs on a semi regular basis. I'm also planning a small busman's holiday to Europe next year for some more coaching.

I was trying to get it through the IAWA but I think they're quite tied up with the IRFU and if you're part of a rugby club it might be easier to get. TBH though, if you're just lifting for strength, fitness or otherwise I'd just go and find a coach and get them to show you how to lift. The level 1 is mostly about how to coach the lifts as opposed to anything else ie. top down or bottom up, coaching kids vs. adults etc. etc. If you're interested you can pm and I'll let you know the details.

slemons

You can teach yourself to certain degree, but i found anyway that it just wasnt the same.
I was grunting up the same weight that guys not as strong were able to sail up.

Cathal Byrd is a shining example to anyone of what can happen if you prepare/train right.
He's gotten so strong in a few years.
His videos are awesome, and a future olympian for sure...

Roper

Mikel wrote: »

Also, what's the deal with the WH dude? Is it a 1 to 1 for an hour thing you do with him? What kind of stuff is it?

The way me and Will pay each other is through bets. He sees a drunk begging on a street corner and he says, I bet you can't make him into a gentleman, and I have to go off and do that. Or I see a nerdy fat girl and I say, I bet you can't make her beautiful so she can marry the football star and so on and so on. We usually do these around big events like Christmas, Thanksgiving, Senior Prom etc. etc.

Come to think of it I may be confusing things. Maybe I owe him money...


Em seriously though, were you asking about my financial arrangements on the internet?

d-gal

G'em do have any vids from the last week?

g'em

There's a compilation video here.

dave80

Roper wrote: »

The way me and Will pay each other is through bets. He sees a drunk begging on a street corner and he says, I bet you can't make him into a gentleman, and I have to go off and do that. Or I see a nerdy fat girl and I say, I bet you can't make her beautiful so she can marry the football star and so on and so on. We usually do these around big events like Christmas, Thanksgiving, Senior Prom etc. etc.

Come to think of it I may be confusing things. Maybe I owe him money...


Em seriously though, were you asking about my financial arrangements on the internet?

Kinda like the film 'Trading Places' with eddie murphy!

d-gal

Thanks g'em, great videos, pity i missed the event, would have loved to have viewed, was sick at the time
Saw the second vid training camp, the guy barry was very strong and sammy had great technique

Roper

dave80 wrote: »

Kinda like the film 'Trading Places' with eddie murphy!

No.

dave80

Roper wrote: »

No.

maybe you havent seen the film Mortimer (or is it Randolph)

Roper

dave80 wrote: »

maybe you havent seen the film Mortimer (or is it Randolph)

Mikel

Roper wrote: »

Em seriously though, were you asking about my financial arrangements on the internet?

Nope, never mentioned money, asked was it 1 to 1 for an hour, ie is it just you or a group class and does it last for an hour cos that seems like a long time for high intensity stuff.
And I asked what kind of stuff meaning is it technical coaching on C&J or is he barking at you while holding a stop watch?
What do you get from him being there compared to not being there?