Bats in the Attic

magicbastarder

swifts need our help! wrote: »

You are likely to come off worst - fined heavily and possibly jailed

likely? how often are those punishments doled out?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

It's all very well rationalising that people shouldn't mind bats and that they actually do help us through controlling the numbers of midges, but I think a lot of human beings do have a fundamental problem with sharing their personal space (and that includes the attic) with a wild animal - be it rat, mouse, bat, bird etc.

Thankfully I've never had bats in my attic but if I did have, I'd probably take steps to get rid of them, law or no law.

I have no quarrel with people who are uncomfortable with Bats in their homes but what is so difficult about contacting the NPWS to have then removed and relocated properly?

Tenbears

I really wonder if it is bats you have in your attic? They are not normally noisy, in fact most people that have bats dont notice them for years. Please before you panic search the net for expert advice on bats. Stop listening to stories from people with no experience.

Birdnuts

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

It's all very well rationalising that people shouldn't mind bats and that they actually do help us through controlling the numbers of midges, but I think a lot of human beings do have a fundamental problem with sharing their personal space (and that includes the attic) with a wild animal - be it rat, mouse, bat, bird etc.

Thankfully I've never had bats in my attic but if I did have, I'd probably take steps to get rid of them, law or no law

.

Brilliant logic - comparing rodents with totally different benign/beneficial species, how can I argue with that!!:rolleyes:

PS: Tell me, why do you feel the need to bring attention to yourself on a public forum by proclaiming your contempt for basic conservation law?? - On a general point, if this forum is anything like the Farming one, then there's plenty of people working in this area who follow such postings/threads.

Birdnuts

magicbastarder wrote: »

likely? how often are those punishments doled out?

Theres been a few cases allright - but obviously not nearly enough:(

Tenbears

Education education education! By far the biggest threat to Irish bats is Irish people. We have many species of bat in this country that are rare, threatened and internationally important. Bats are not blind, will never get caught in your hair, harm anything in your house (including you) and are more closely related to humans than rodents. So many people (including me) had the fear of bats until we allowed ourselves be educated and see the facts. The problem with most Irish people is stubborn ignorance. Too many people won’t just listen to someone who knows. They just make that squirmy noise and say I don’t care and I don’t want to know because it suits them better to believe the rubbish myths we were fed for so long. Brahman Stroker gave us the vampire stories that terrified us of bats and it has caused so much harm. What’s ironic about that is he was Irish! Now we are the only nation in the world still afraid of bats. We look so stupid to the rest of the world. I teach school kids about bats so that the next generation will not be so ignorant. Please educate yourself and stop looking so stupid to the rest of the world.

swifts need our help!

well said

It's also a myth that a bat worker comes along, catches the bats and relocates them. You's be surprised how many times I visit a householder and s/he says "where's the box"

Tenbears

Yep! and another myth is that if you call anyone Parks & Wildlive service will come and slap a protection order on your house. Tell me of a single case where that happened.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Tenbears wrote: »

Now we are the only nation in the world still afraid of bats. We look so stupid to the rest of the world.. .

You were doing very well up to that point. There is no truth whatsoever in either sentence. I have met people in many countries who are afraid of Bats; just as people are afraid of spiders, dogs, snakes etc. And just as many people in other countries are ignorant of Bats.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

swifts need our help! wrote: »

well said

It's also a myth that a bat worker comes along, catches the bats and relocates them. You's be surprised how many times I visit a householder and s/he says "where's the box"

Bats are certainly caught and relocated in this country. :mad:

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Tenbears wrote: »

Yep! and another myth is that if you call anyone Parks & Wildlive service will come and slap a protection order on your house. Tell me of a single case where that happened.

Who said NPWS would put a protection order on any person's private dwelling?

Tenbears

Dimitri Damp Shingle wrote: »

Who said NPWS would put a protection order on any person's private dwelling?

It has been said several times on this site.

Tenbears

Srameen, I’m sorry if you took that personally. I meant no offence in what I said. But I am speaking from my own experiences with bat people from around the world. Also in all my dealing with bat people in Ireland it’s simply facts that the vast majority of people that welcome bats and are educated (or at least willing to be educated) are not Irish. It annoys me that so many people in Ireland seem to enjoy giving bats a bad name. I’m Irish so believe me I take no pride in saying this but it’s still very true. I’m not a tree hugging, animal loving freak; I even hunt wild animals and birds. I also understand that some people have real fears of some things (including bats) and those people should not have to share a home with them (and they don’t have to). It’s just the constant negativity that gets under my skin.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Then how's this for positive? Irish people are no different to British, France, Germans, Italians and Americans in their views on Bats.

Also, you'd be surprised how many people are thrilled to watch Bats and to know they are living so close by.:)

Eddy Hill

Dimitri Damp Shingle wrote: »

You were doing very well up to that point. There is no truth whatsoever in either sentence. I have met people in many countries who are afraid of Bats; just as people are afraid of spiders, dogs, snakes etc. And just as many people in other countries are ignorant of Bats.

A general observation on bats and NPWS
Like it or not but a lot of people do not like bats and despite anything bat workers or NPWS say or do that is a difficult mind set to shift . Being ignorant of ecology of any species is not some kind of negative either .
We all are not that terribly interested in bats - it has nothing to do with 'ignorance'. Globally Bats also act as vectors for many diseases including rabies , they carry an array of ecto-parasites too including bed mites

NPWS cannot put an order on you home they do not have that much power despite what some of their more gung ho rangers think.

Any private dwelling cannot be entered by NPWS either unless you invite them in or if they come with a warrant and to get one of those they need to have evidence that there is something dodgy is going on AND at all times must be accompanied by a member of An Garda Siochana-the real law enforcers in this State .

Birdnuts

Eddy Hill wrote: »

. Being ignorant of ecology of any species is not some kind of negative either .
We all are not that terribly interested in bats - it has nothing to do with 'ignorance'..

Well it does if you think Irish bats spread rabies or bed mites:rolleyes:

PS: NPWS can simply request back-up from the Gardai to investigate such crimes - just like fishery officiers, inspector of retirment homes etc.

swifts need our help!

bed mites is new to me and I've got nearly 20 years of experience. The chances of getting rabies is extremely slim and practically zero. You have more chance of having an accident

Eddy Hill

Birdnuts wrote: »

Well it does if you think Irish bats spread rabies or bed mites:rolleyes:

PS: NPWS can simply request back-up from the Gardai to investigate such crimes - just like fishery officiers, inspector of retirment homes etc.

No I was careful to state 'globally' but I guessed the pro batty folk would jump to defend the little furry beasts

and NPWS can simply request anything they like but they need a warrant from at least a District Court Judge to enter any dwelling anywhere in this state -unless invited in .

And bat colonies stink at this time of the year another reason why a lot of people don't like them in their homes .

Birdnuts

Eddy Hill wrote: »

No I was careful to state 'globally' but I guessed the pro batty folk would jump to defend the little furry beasts

and NPWS can simply request anything they like but they need a warrant from at least a District Court Judge to enter any dwelling anywhere in this state -unless invited in .

And bat colonies stink at this time of the year another reason why a lot of people don't like them in their homes .

So what relevance were those observations to bats in this country - you obviously don't like bats for some reason that is still not apparent, but at least lets deal with facts as they relate to Irish species.

PS: Again as I pointed earlier, the NPWS works the same way as any other agents of the state when it comes to enforcing laws.

Eddy Hill

swifts need our help! wrote: »

bed mites is new to me and I've got nearly 20 years of experience. The chances of getting rabies is extremely slim and practically zero. You have more chance of having an accident

20 years of experience doing what? do some research please
and its not about taking chances,

we have too many experts who cannot be objective about the species they work with

c 6% of bats in US studies showed bats carry rabies antibodies or the virus -remember a bit of biology is useful here ,
bats are mammals
so are we ,
if a bat which contains the virus and if they bite you when handling them what happens? (remember your basic biology and pathogen transfer mechanisms and pathways )

Daubentons bat in UK are know to have rabies antibodies and a number of dead bats contained the rabies virus (EBLV -2)
and unfortunately although a thankfully rare event in W Europe a bat worker died from the virus in Scotland in 2008 .

Eddy Hill

Birdnuts wrote: »

So what relevance were those observations to bats in this country - you obviously don't like bats for some reason that is still not apparent, but at least lets deal with facts as they relate to Irish species.

PS: Again as I pointed earlier, the NPWS works the same way as any other agents of the state when it comes to enforcing laws.

No that is not what you wrote or inferred or pointed out
NPWS cannot simply just ask the Garda for back up to investigate offences in a dwelling or to go to one to collect evidence of an offence eg destruction of a bat roost .They must get a warrant , must be accompanied by a Garda and carry out or execute the warrant at a reasonable time
little point in labouring that one as you don't seem to get it .

Nowhere did I declare that l like or dislike bats , are you (like me ) fond of labels? jumping to conclusions?
Like a lot of issue relating to ecology, SACs, wildlife ,turf cutting , bats , coursing other forms of hunting, habitats
does it have to come down to emotions simple likes or dislikes?

On likes and dislikes -the black rat is possibly our rarest wild mammal , not too may shouting it out for the back rat ..:rolleyes:

The facts are that for all the pro bat work the majority of people I know do not want to share their homes with bats, they do not want them in their homes and unfortunately I suspect that there are those out there who do what they have to to make their homes comfortable and habitable -for the humans .

Birdnuts

Eddy Hill wrote: »

20 years of experience doing what? do some research please
and its not about taking chances,

we have too many experts who cannot be objective about the species they work with

c 6% of bats in US studies showed bats carry rabies antibodies or the virus -remember a bit of biology is useful here ,
bats are mammals
so are we ,
if a bat which contains the virus and if they bite you when handling them what happens? (remember your basic biology and pathogen transfer mechanisms and pathways )

Daubentons bat in UK are know to have rabies antibodies and a number of dead bats contained the rabies virus (EBLV -2)
and unfortunately although a thankfully rare event in W Europe a bat worker died from the virus in Scotland in 2008 .

I don't see the relevance of a freak event involving a professional bat handler in Scotland has to the averge Irish housholder with bats in his attic. Many mammals including humans carry rabies anti-bodies in their blood - most travellers visiting non-western countries have rabies antibodies(including myself) due to travel inocculations etc.


If your going to go down the road of trying to generate such hysteria to back up your arguements then your on very dodgy ground - most livestock and pets carry deadly strains of E Coli and Staphlococci etc. bacteria around with them. Its doesn't mean people should run screaming every time they spot a dog or a goat in the vicinity. If such things keep you up at night then you might as well go around wearing a crash helmet in case you get hit by a stray asteroid:rolleyes:

Birdnuts

Eddy Hill wrote: »

No that is not what you wrote or inferred or pointed out
NPWS cannot simply just ask the Garda for back up to investigate offences in a dwelling or to go to one to collect evidence of an offence eg destruction of a bat roost .They must get a warrant , must be accompanied by a Garda and carry out or execute the warrant at a reasonable time
little point in labouring that one as you don't seem to get it .

.

Gardai need warrants to investigate many crimes - that was what I was pointing out.

Birdnuts

Eddy Hill wrote: »

?

On likes and dislikes -the black rat is possibly our rarest wild mammal , not too may shouting it out for the back rat ..:rolleyes:

.

Deceisions on what species are given full protection are based on science and risks to the public - comparing notorious human disease vectors like Black rats to harmless bat species that consume vast numbers of pest insects is simply ridicolous!!!

In any case if you don't want bats in your house then all one has to do is simply contact the NPWS or your local Bat group and they will deal with the problem safely and legally.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Eddy Hill wrote: »

A general observation on bats and NPWS
Like it or not but a lot of people do not like bats and despite anything bat workers or NPWS say or do that is a difficult mind set to shift . Being ignorant of ecology of any species is not some kind of negative either .
We all are not that terribly interested in bats - it has nothing to do with 'ignorance'. Globally Bats also act as vectors for many diseases including rabies , they carry an array of ecto-parasites too including bed mites

NPWS cannot put an order on you home they do not have that much power despite what some of their more gung ho rangers think.

Any private dwelling cannot be entered by NPWS either unless you invite them in or if they come with a warrant and to get one of those they need to have evidence that there is something dodgy is going on AND at all times must be accompanied by a member of An Garda Siochana-the real law enforcers in this State .

Eddy, I think you mis-read my post or didn't rekate it to the post I was replying to. I didn't say people were not afraisd of Bats I simply said they were no more afraid or ignorant in Ireland than any other country.

I also pointed out that NPWS could never put an order on a private dwelling.

We might actually agree with each other.:p

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Eddy Hill wrote: »

No I was careful to state 'globally' but I guessed the pro batty folk would jump to defend the little furry beasts

And bat colonies stink at this time of the year another reason why a lot of people don't like them in their homes .

1. Why go globally? There is no relavence to Ireland other than to plant a seed of a misconception.

2. I have bats in the attic of my bungalow and NEVEr do we get any smell from them. And rest assured my OH wouldn't tolerate any smell!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Eddy Hill wrote: »

the black rat is possibly our rarest wild mammal , .

Black rats are not a Native species.

BatCave

Hi

Really interesting thread, I've learnt a lot

By way of a bit of history...my Dad sadly died a couple of years ago and I now live in his old house.

There have been bats in the attic for a good few years. Dad got the bat people out and they told him pretty much what I've read here. No harm, only good and not a health risk

Back then there were five bats. I've been watching for a few weeks now, there are at least 17 - which equates very nicely to a previous post that there is one offspring a year. Lots of inbreeding though!

I've been concerned about the health risks, we have a 5 year old boy here. This topic has allayed my fears somewhat!

Why springing into Google action tonight and finding this thread?

Stood outside having a cig, I can hear one of them screaming. At first I thought it was hurt on our flat roof so I took a torch and looked out of the landing window. Nothing to see. Then I realised it's lost it's way. This is at the opposite side of the house where they leave from. One of them has crawled the wrong way across the roof felt and is trapped

The others are flying into / against the side of the house presumably trying to free it. I'm not trying to anamorphize the situation but even so, it's pretty distressing

I've been into the attic to see if I could see it but can also hear more of them clawing around on the roof felt.

It's all very intense. There's no way on this earth I'm going to rip open the roof felt and do a daring rescue. Up until now they are pleasant to have around, if they start invading the attic then that maybe another matter

Don't hate me..I live in the UK - Yorkshire. In summer if you go anywhere else there are small flying bugs. Around my house we are particularly midgy free!

Edit...

I can still hear it, he or she or baby

I think the others may have back to the roost now. Tough to say as it's pitch black outside - normally I can see them flying round

Have to say though that I can maybe shed some light on the flying into peoples hair story.

The rest of the colony were obviously distressed this evening. Whilst outside smoking I felt a number of them 'swooshing' across my baldy head

It's a terrible thing to say (hell I rescued a wasp tonight) but I'm going to have to let nature take it's course on this one

Houses are just too damn expensive

Sorry

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Absolutely nothing to apologise for, Batcave. You are letting nature take it's course. The Bat may well find it's way back anyway.

I'm heartened by your attitude.:)

fryup

For the past 5 years I've had bats in my attic (at the gable end of the house behind the soffit board) about 50 i reckon. You can hear them during the day sqeeking away.

Few Qs...

Is it the same family every year that return?

If so how do they know which house to return to?

When do they vacate completely?

What happens to them during the winter months?