New amp and speakers

mossym

Slaphead07 wrote:

Squash balls? Right... well they're made of sorbothane - an energy absorbing rubber that can have very useful sonic characteristics. Cut the squash balls carefully in half and place one half under each foot of the CD player (roundy bit down!)...

okay, i was going to let this one go..but i can't...so the sqush balls have useful sonic characteristics..bt the signal travelling all the way through your cd player is an electrical signal. at no point until it reaches your speakers is it a sonic signal. it's a voltage up until that point. so why on earth would the sonic characteristics of a squash ball have any effect

i know i know, i'm scoffing at your product so i have no interest in hifi..i do however understand the workings of it, which i think you should do before advocating all this

Slaphead07

"useful sonic characteristics" may have been a poor choice of phrase (but only because it allows deliberate misrepresentation) but the rubber absorbs vibrations and that results in a cleaner more open sound. This is very basic HiFi knowledge. I'm not advocating anything that doesn't work and I'm not selling anything either. Not everything can be measured with a multimeter.... get over it.

mossym

blah never mind..post deleted

12bore

Is this a wind up? Would be entirely sceptical of squash balls. I have a smattering of a scientific education (masters in molecular genetics), and can think of no mechanism by which this could work. Surely small vibrations have no effect on an electical signal. Saying that, I have some squash balls lying around somewhere, so it won't cost anything to try. Will have to do some googleing on this.

mossym

look at it this way...electronics makers put the best of electronics into their products trying to get the best sound. trying to sell you the product they make it sound as good as they can. If this actually worked, don't you think by now one of the manufacturers would have used this as a way of making their product sound better? costs nearly nothing to do, so why would they not do it..and if one did it, all would do it to catch up, so there would be no need for an end user to do it..

and slaphead, to make an acoustic difference there has to be a corresponding electrical difference, like it or not. if there is it can be measured. if there is no electrical difference due to these changes, then the sound is the same. so if your changes work, and i'm not saying they do or don't, they have to cause an electrical change...there, i've gotten over it...

ZENER

I was prepared to accept that the balls may offer some sonic isolation from vibrations to the cd mechanism resulting in lower - if perhaps not measurable - bit errors. After all for years the bane of vinyl was the needle picking up vibrations causing positive feedback thus ruining the sound. People and companies spent small fortunes improving the isolation of these vibrations - but under a DAC or power amp . . that's pushing it a bit too far now.

ZEN

Turbulent Bill

I think the issue with rubber balls, spikes etc. is the isolation of the speaker's acoustic response from whatever it's mounted on. If the mounting is relatively flexible (e.g., a dodgy bookshelf), the speaker's acoustic output will be coupled into the mounting as well as the speaker cabinet, degrading the overall response. A 'lossy' footing (like rubber) might be better here to isolate speaker from shelf.

By contrast, if the mounting is stiff and weighty (e.g., a stone floor), it's better to 'pin' the speaker to the floor, as this maximises the acoustic energy coupled to the speaker cabinet. I'm no expert on this, but it seems to make reasonable sense.

Unless you have the American Overeaters Gymnastics Championships on beside your amp, different mountings shouldn't make any difference. Only pay for what you can hear.

mossym

Turbulent Bill wrote:

I think the issue with rubber balls, spikes etc. is the isolation of the speaker's acoustic response from whatever it's mounted on. If the mounting is relatively flexible (e.g., a dodgy bookshelf), the speaker's acoustic output will be coupled into the mounting as well as the speaker cabinet, degrading the overall response. A 'lossy' footing (like rubber) might be better here to isolate speaker from shelf.

By contrast, if the mounting is stiff and weighty (e.g., a stone floor), it's better to 'pin' the speaker to the floor, as this maximises the acoustic energy coupled to the speaker cabinet. I'm no expert on this, but it seems to make reasonable sense.

Unless you have the American Overeaters Gymnastics Championships on beside your amp, different mountings shouldn't make any difference. Only pay for what you can hear.

couldn't agree more....for speakers...as the only acoutiscally coupled device in the system it makes sense

Slaphead07

Turbulent Bill wrote:

Only pay for what you can hear.

That's the bottom line.

ZENER

Sigh - yet again boards.ie has fcuked up another post that I spent ages writing - to summarise the reply - bollocks - absolute rubbish. ok ?

Doesn't seem to have any problems serving bloody ads though !!

ZEN

mathias

I think the issue with rubber balls, spikes etc. is the isolation of the speaker's acoustic response from whatever it's mounted on. If the mounting is relatively flexible (e.g., a dodgy bookshelf), the speaker's acoustic output will be coupled into the mounting as well as the speaker cabinet, degrading the overall response. A 'lossy' footing (like rubber) might be better here to isolate speaker from shelf.

By contrast, if the mounting is stiff and weighty (e.g., a stone floor), it's better to 'pin' the speaker to the floor, as this maximises the acoustic energy coupled to the speaker cabinet. I'm no expert on this, but it seems to make reasonable sense.

This is absolutely hilarious , its snakeoil quackery taken to extremes ... Barking mad I tells ya , barking mad !
Show me one reputable reference source on acoustics that will demonstrate a significant alteration in response due to equipment mountings .

Squash balls .... please tell me its a joke ! Has the world of Hi-fi degenerated into such a farce ?

mossym

mathias wrote:

This is absolutely hilarious , its snakeoil quackery taken to extremes ... Barking mad I tells ya , barking mad !
Show me one reputable reference source on acoustics that will demonstrate a significant alteration in response due to equipment mountings .

Squash balls .... please tell me its a joke ! Has the world of Hi-fi degenerated into such a farce ?

well coupling the speakers to the ground to avoind them vibrating while playing loud volumes is pretty standard..if the whole speaker is shaking it's probably not a good thing..other oprion is fill them so full of weith they can't shake

but as for the rest, well. yeah i agree

Slaphead07

isn't Boards.ie well served with expertise? Very impressive. I suspect some of you have never even seen hifi let alone heard it.

It's like drivers of Fiat Puntos dominating a motoring forum.

mossym

and you sound like the person who swears that the go faster strips on the side of his car gets him an extra 7mph.

in fairness, what do you exepct, that no-one will disagree with you? that once you have made your point we will all change our minds and buy into it. you believe this, you'll say it works, we don't we'll disagree with you..you say I'm wrong, i'll say you're wrong..and i'll try and give reasons why i think you're wrong

if you give advice others think is wrong, why would they not contest it? boards would be a pretty poor resource if every question was only allowed one opinion ...

Slaphead07

the go faster stipes analogy is typically off the mark. The real waste of money is when it's spent on shiny boxes that can only take at most 30% (my generous estimate) of the data off the CD. Is there room for a low-fi forum for you guys?

BTW, the earth isn't flat either.

The Ritz

Time to chill out...........

Mossym, mathias,

Isolating source units as well as speakers is commonplace......... the continual baiting and trolling as soon as someone expresses an opinion about interconnects, speaker cables or any other of the finer points of hifi etc is not doing any service to the forum.

It's up to the individual to decide whether something is worth trying/buying - insults, thinly veiled or otherwise, have no place here.

If you disagree with someones opinion then express your point of view and leave it at that - It's up to the individual to decide whether something is worth trying/buying - insults, thinly veiled or otherwise, have no place here.


I'm leaving this thread open for now.


Ritz.

mossym

The Ritz wrote:

It's up to the individual to decide whether something is worth trying/buying - insults, thinly veiled or otherwise, have no place here.

fair enough, but the indivdual should then be presented with both sides, not just one, Slaphead has voiced his opinion, that these tricks work. There should be no problem pointing out that some of us believe this to be absolute rubbish. For every point i've made i've backed it up with facts as to why i think it is rubbish.

and to be honest there was no insults on my behalf until a certain punto comment, but that's neither here nor there.

mossym

Slaphead07 wrote:

The real waste of money is when it's spent on shiny boxes that can only take at most 30% (my generous estimate) of the data off the CD.

go on then, amuse me, tell me how you came up with this figure.

The Ritz

go on then, amuse me, tell me how you came up with this figure.

There should be no problem pointing out that some of us believe this to be absolute rubbish.

Mossym,

Time to drop it............. you don't have to challenge every word of every post you disagree with. No one reading the thread could be in any doubt as to your opinion at this stage.

I completely agree that there should be no problem saying that some of you believe that something doesn't work - that's a hell of a lot different to "rubbishing" someone elses view or opinion.

For instance, it would be useful if someone expressing a contrary opinion was able to say that they tried something and didn't hear any difference. That's the real issue - if you don't hear any difference, say so - if you do hear a difference then good for you, share your experience. Declaring that something is "absolute rubbish" is an empty atatement.

There are any number of different enthusiasts who adopt different levels of equipment and different techniques etc. in the course of pursuing their hobby.


No need to continue this, I think. Please bear in mind that this is the second thread being closed because of different opinions degenerating into poorly disguised slanging matches.

Thread closed.


Ritz

The Ritz

Time-out complete, Thread re-opened.

Let's keep it civil lads, lots of room for discussion, different points of view, tips and tricks. No room for insults, if you have a fixed position say so and leave it at that.


Thanks,

Ritz.

Slaphead07

Cool.
I'd ask people to try the squash balls before slagging them off. I know they work because I tried them and frankly vibration isolation is nothing new and hardly "the black arts". You won't get much of a result unless the equipment is capable of producing a decent soundstage anyway so really it has to be decent separates ok? And yes I know the idea of them making a difference under an amp or DAC is utterly absurd but I've heard the difference... it is there. Honest.
I'm not a squash ball sales man... my only motivation for posting this is to provide a cheap tweak to people who might want a better sound from their HiFi... nothing more. I don't expect to be dismissed out of hand for that.

If you play squash or know somebody who does then just use the old "blown" ones.

Turbulent Bill

mathias wrote:

This is absolutely hilarious , its snakeoil quackery taken to extremes ... Barking mad I tells ya , barking mad !
Show me one reputable reference source on acoustics that will demonstrate a significant alteration in response due to equipment mountings .

Squash balls .... please tell me its a joke ! Has the world of Hi-fi degenerated into such a farce ?

I made no mention of significance - I probably couldn't tell the difference between mountings, but someone might. The fact remains that a speaker and its support form a coupled system, with the properties of the mounting (rubber, steel, supercooled snakeoil etc.) affecting the overall response in some way - it's fundamental coupled systems theory. I'd recommend something like "Fundamentals of Acoustics" by Kinsler et al. as an intro to this, particularly for frequency response functions.

padi89

Just wondering on which ones to get, i cant decide...






Progress,Pro,Max or Competition?Can someone explain the sonic differences of each please as im a bit confused?
Im leaning towards Max or Pro because i want the best sound possible from my investment.There is also a 2for1 offer on them too,sweet, i can stick them under other electronics too.

Turbulent Bill

padi89 wrote:

Just wondering on which ones to get, i cant decide...






Progress,Pro,Max or Competition?Can someone explain the sonic differences of each please as im a bit confused?
Im leaning towards Max or Pro because i want the best sound possible from my investment.There is also a 2for1 offer on them too,sweet, i can stick them under other electronics too.

I'd go with the black ones: the blue are a little bit harsh and 'in your face' . Good deal too, you could even isolate your toaster for better performance...

Slaphead07

If only you could replace your ignorance with a sense of humour. You obviously haven't tried this or your hifi is too weak to show any improvement. All I ask is that you try it before you comment. Obviously too much to ask from such experts.

Turbulent Bill

Slaphead07 wrote:

If only you could replace your ignorance with a sense of humour. You obviously haven't tried this or your hifi is too weak to show any improvement. All I ask is that you try it before you comment. Obviously too much to ask from such experts.

Ah come on Slaphead, it's only a bit of fun! I've made my case above, and actually agree that it might affect speaker performance. There's still room for humour, though.

padi89

Slaphead07 wrote:

You obviously haven't tried this or your hifi is too weak to show any improvement.

Too weak? Can you explain?I mean we are in the HE Audio Hi-Fis & Separates forum so i would assume most people posting in this thread own a decent enough setup and not one of these

Slaphead07

Turbulent Bill wrote:

Ah come on Slaphead, it's only a bit of fun! I've made my case above, and actually agree that it might affect speaker performance. There's still room for humour, though.

I'm not looking for agreement (or humour thankfully). They can't practically be used under speakers as the speakers would fall over too easily - we all have serious floorstanders don't we?

conax

Slaphead07:

just read this thread.


I can’t say that I have’t been through the whole pratical and therotical intricies of resonance isolation, but I do not recall having ever come across the practice or advantage of isolating either the pre or power amplifier to reduce comtamination of the reproduced audio material, other than maybe a user placing isolators for the sake of it (just because they were to hand)
I would be interested on your views as to why this would improve the overall quality.

Slaphead07

conax wrote:

I would be interested on your views as to why this would improve the overall quality.

They're not views and they're not theories, I tried the halved squash balls not expecting it to make any difference at all to an amp or DAC but it did. Simple as that. I really don't care if people believe it or not.... I just threw it out there as a cheap tweak.