The GPO as a shopping centre?

Victor

I can see this plan going down a bomb.

http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/10751529?view=Eircomnet&cat=National

Dublin's GPO to close only to rise again as a smart shopping centre
From The Irish IndependentSunday, 15th July, 2007

THE GPO in O'Connell Street, Dublin, is to close - as a general post office.

The Government has grand plans to "open it up to a public" in a revamp costing €250m that will turn the inconic building and its huge interior courtyards into a mixed development of museums, restaurants, galleries, shops and performance areas for the arts.

The redevelopment of the site is linked to the celebration of the centenary of 1916 in nine years' time.

Secret discussions have been taking place over a long period between the Office of Public Works and architects and planners about making the GPO a "focal point" for huge development plans in the northern quarter of Dublin city.

"There are considerable architectural possibilities about what can be done with it," said the Minister in charge of the Office of Public Works, Noel Ahern TD, yesterday.

"There are enormous possibilities if we get the right mix of creative ideas," he said.

A think tank involving the ultra-trendy architects Foster & Partners of London, who designed the proposed expansion of U2's Clarence Hotel, has been involved in looking at the GPO complex and possibilities for opening it up from the surrounding streets such as Henry Street and Prince'sStreet.

With the post office counters removed there will be free access into the massive interior of the building.

"The think tank came at it from an architectural point of view; now it is a case of moving on and talking to the stakeholders" said the minister. He believes that work will have to start in the next year or two if the Government's plans are to be completed in time for the 2016 celebration.

Included in the plan is a glass cover for the vast courtyards, new archway entrances from adjoining streets and a multi-story interior which could even include an element of upmarket apartments, depending on a final agreement for the building and its courtyards.

Minister Ahern wants the building to retain the historic name of the GPO and to retain a post office "at some level", but this would only be one element of the development, which is at the early planning stages.

In the next couple of weeks meetings will be held with various interested bodies, including An Post, to discuss the plans.

The future of the GPO is now linked to the celebration of the 100th anniversary of the 1916 Rising, which is seen as a "seminal moment" in the development of Irish independence and the modern state.

An integral part of the plan is for a "creative" museum which will celebrate the 100 years since Padraig Pearse, James Connolly and the Irish Volunteers occupied the building in 1916, beginning the final phase of the struggle for Irish independence.

The front facade of the building remains from the original GPO designed by Francis Johnston and erected in 1818. Much of the rest of it was destroyed by shelling in 1916. Ironically this facilitates the development of the courtyards and other buildings on the site, making development a much easier proposition because much of the fabric of the vast site was built after 1916.

Noel Ahern has already presided over a series of meetings of an informal group which has been charged with celebrating the centenary of 1916 and opening up the historic site for public use.

"We want people in there, we want a lively place so that people can walk in off O'Connell Street," said Minister Ahern.

He also believes that it should be more than "dawn to dusk" and that the GPO site will be a vibrant place for visitors well into the night, and that in conjunction with other developments in the area can turn O'Connell Street into a vibrant part of the city.

Last week Arnott's department store, which is controlled by barrister Richard Nesbitt, got the go-ahead for a €750m redevelopment of its huge land bank in Abbey Street, Henry Street and Prince's Street, which includes the former Independent Newspapers site.

The Arnott's site, the GPO site and the Carlton site, which extends back into Moore Street, will all become part of a 5.5-acre redevelopment of what has now been called the Northern Quarter.

The scheme, which has been been approved by Dublin City Council, will be 12 to 15 storeys high in places.

The Office of Public Works, which is to begin consultation with stakeholders in the GPO in the next couple of weeks, is determined that the old post office will become the focal point of this development. The best architects and planners will be involved in the design process.

At present, An Post uses the GPO building as a company headquarters - and although it is a famous meeting point in the centre of Dublin it is generally considered that its presence has 'deadened' the area rather than adding to the vigour and attractiveness of O'Connell Street and the surrounding area.

tracert

At present, An Post uses the GPO building as a company headquarters - and although it is a famous meeting point in the centre of Dublin it is generally considered that its presence has 'deadened' the area rather than adding to the vigour and attractiveness of O'Connell Street and the surrounding area.

Huh?

mikemac

Maybe they should concentrate on developing and getting tenants for the empty buildings further up the street first. I think one building is called the Carlton Cinema. Could be wrong on the name but it's a shame it's empty.

Then once the street is fully occupied with businesses, then they can look at this proposal. I wouldn't reject it straight away but the majority will probably reject it before even reading the full article.

Cabaal

I fail to see how the GPO has "deadened" the area, I'd like to see info regardfing that

PeakOutput

great idea s long as it does actualy include the museums and galleries when its all said and done and its not just a big shopping center

jjbrien

I would hate to see the GPO becoming a shopping center. It would be a grave injustice the our fore fathers who fought inside the GPO. If this goes ahead it would be the final pice of americanization of Ireland we might as well apply to become a state of the USA. I hope they keep thier hands off the GPO. Its the only post office in Dublin that stays open late till 8pm Monday to Friday without it I would never get to go to the post office.

JIZZLORD

i think that some development cant hurt, but putting apartments in it would cheapen the buildings significance. if they went down a route consisting of an art gallery and a museum i'd have no problem, but i cant imagine a branch of lifestlye sports or something equally trashy adding to the building
Even ignoring it's massive place in our history, a 200 year old public building doesn't deserve to end up as a shopping centre.

marco murphy

Hmm. Put a statue in the middle and I don't mind. There is very little rememberance of the Rebellion. The shop/whoore house at the back street (not sure of the name) where the rebels surrendered is remembered by some grafitti and a very small un recognisable plaque.

2 stroke

If it must be changed I vote for a drive-in postoffice.

Time Magazine

jjbrien wrote:

It would be a grave injustice the our fore fathers who fought inside the GPO. If this goes ahead it would be the final pice of americanization of Ireland we might as well apply to become a state of the USA.

Jaysis, exaggerate much?

It's a Post Office, it's already a shop of sorts. How is turning it into a different sort of shop such a change? "The final piece of Americanization"? (Noticed you used a 'z' there...) Get off it, lad.

I think it should be a museum, but this appears to be in the plans, so I'm contented enough even if they have a few shops there as well.

bonkey

JIZZLORD wrote:

a 200 year old public building

That would mean the Brits built it, then, yeah?

(stir, stir)

jjbrien

Ibid wrote:

Jaysis, exaggerate much?

It's a Post Office, it's already a shop of sorts. How is turning it into a different sort of shop such a change? "The final piece of Americanization"? (Noticed you used a 'z' there...) Get off it, lad.

I think it should be a museum, but this appears to be in the plans, so I'm contented enough even if they have a few shops there as well.

A museum would be fine. But no shops what so ever. The only form of a shop that should be in there is a working post office and gift shop. Ok maybe an post needs new modern offices thats fine by all means move them but dont turn the GPO into a giant Mc Donalds.

shane86

jjbrien wrote:

I would hate to see the GPO becoming a shopping center. It would be a grave injustice the our fore fathers who fought inside the GPO. If this goes ahead it would be the final pice of americanization of Ireland we might as well apply to become a state of the USA. I hope they keep thier hands off the GPO. Its the only post office in Dublin that stays open late till 8pm Monday to Friday without it I would never get to go to the post office.

Here here.

Im by no means a hardcore republican* but I agree with the above, its a commercial sell of of the scene of one of the most important days in our history. Its as if saying that in modern Ireland anything is for sale.

*(my oul one is from the north from a 90% plus protestant village, she said that bar one or two gobsh1tes they were treated as well as anyone, and so she told me never to get caught up in that sh1te)

Demonique

micmclo wrote:

Maybe they should concentrate on developing and getting tenants for the empty buildings further up the street first. I think one building is called the Carlton Cinema. Could be wrong on the name but it's a shame it's empty.

I heard its one of the places they're considering for the new location of the abbey theatre

WindSock

Yess. Just what Dublin needs. More Shops and Apartments. Why stop at the GPO? I'm sure there's plenty of space in the Garden of Rememberance too.

Photi

Dublin forum tbh.

Ruu_Old

Museum would be good perhaps but wouldn't like to see anything more. *cries at the thought of Starbucks and tourists with bum bags* ;_;

Victor

Photi wrote:

Dublin forum tbh.

National monument tbh.

PeakOutput

jjbrien wrote:

but dont turn the GPO into a giant Mc Donalds.

considering the council are doing their best to stop the renewal of the leases for all the fast food resaurants on oconnel st this is unlikely

a museum and an art gallery and a library and a few shops would be great (no supermarkets)

Wishbone Ash

jjbrien wrote:

Its the only post office in Dublin that stays open late till 8pm Monday to Friday without it I would never get to go to the post office.

If you work Monday to Friday would you not consider visiting you local PO on Saturday!

aidan24326

Yeah like we really need another shopping centre. Maybe they'll close the national art gallery and turn that into a shopping centre aswell.

But if it was to go ahead as suggested (with museums, galleries, nice restaurants etc. as well as some shops) then I'd be ok with that. Once it's tastefully done and not just as another location for a Dunnes Stores and a McDonalds. If handled right it could be developed into something really nice, but given our government's record with public projects you wouldn't bet your life on that.

Kintarō Hattori

This is shocking news. I can't believe the government could be serious in attempting to cheapen the image of this important and historic building. How moronic can they be to even entertain the idea of putting shops and restaurents in one of the most historically important buildings in Ireland.

This is a blatant attempt to commercialise on the valuable location of the GPO. Were this to go ahead future generations would wonder how on earth we could have let it happen. It would be in every bit the same league as some of the disasterous planning permissions that were approved in the 50's and 60's. We let them build the offices on the little park in front of Dublin Castle, we'd let them 'deface' the GPO, what else are they planning? What does this teach our children?

Why does it need shops? It doesn't, it's right next door to one of the busiest shopping streets in Ireland! It's a national treasure, it doesn't need commericalising. It needs to be promoted for what it is. Make better use of it as a post office, if we have to have a museum, why can't it showcase it's importance in the Rising.

I'm not normally terribly political, and I do have a habit of sitting on the fence, but I will do everything within my power to try and prevent this happening. I'll write letters, I'll go to marches, I'll try and motivate friends and family into taking action.
I'm saddend and disappointed that the government would try to cash in on the GPO in such a manner.

Steoob

i think its a ****in great idea, i do think that the gpo makes o connell street a bit plane... i hate the walk past it its pretty ugly tbh... a statue and a museum would be great and would honour the rebels well, but it cant hurt to throw in a nice 15 story building i think it can do nothing but wonders for Dub...

OT 15 stories... there aren't many buildings higher than that in ireland are there? the clarion hotel in limerick is 15 i know that... hmmm

nesf

Victor wrote:

National monument tbh.

Agreed tbh.

Hagar

Ballymun had seven 15 storey buildings, even though they were named after the seven signatories of the Proclamation it's hardly much of a recommandation.

I leave the country for a couple of years and the kip goes mad.
The goverrnment couldn't put a top on it's own shite as my granny always said.

PeakOutput

eo980 wrote:

This is shocking news. I can't believe the government could be serious in attempting to cheapen the image of this important and historic building. How moronic can they be to even entertain the idea of putting shops and restaurents in one of the most historically important buildings in Ireland.

This is a blatant attempt to commercialise on the valuable location of the GPO. Were this to go ahead future generations would wonder how on earth we could have let it happen. It would be in every bit the same league as some of the disasterous planning permissions that were approved in the 50's and 60's. We let them build the offices on the little park in front of Dublin Castle, we'd let them 'deface' the GPO, what else are they planning? What does this teach our children?

Why does it need shops? It doesn't, it's right next door to one of the busiest shopping streets in Ireland! It's a national treasure, it doesn't need commericalising. It needs to be promoted for what it is. Make better use of it as a post office, if we have to have a museum, why can't it showcase it's importance in the Rising.

I'm not normally terribly political, and I do have a habit of sitting on the fence, but I will do everything within my power to try and prevent this happening. I'll write letters, I'll go to marches, I'll try and motivate friends and family into taking action.
I'm saddend and disappointed that the government would try to cash in on the GPO in such a manner.

we are all entitled to our opinions and my opinion is your talking crap.......if they are doing as is claimed in the article they are not only not cheapening / degrading the building they are revamping it and renewing it which will bring more people into the building and therefore they are more likely to take an interest in its history........

the area will be better off for it and the city will be better off for it (what tourist wants to visit a post office??? but they will be more than happy to visit a historical building that has something extra ie museums galleries shops etc.

also it will make the gpo alot more economically viable to keep going in the long run

Kintarō Hattori

PeakOutput wrote:

we are all entitled to our opinions and my opinion is your talking crap.......

Well thankfully it's just your opinion and therefore a load of cods wallop.

nesf

Lads, really you've both been around long enough to know not to get personal.

parsi

Wishbone Ash wrote:

If you work Monday to Friday would you not consider visiting you local PO on Saturday!

Depends on the services - my PO only accepts mail up to around 11.00 for collection that day.

Kintarō Hattori

nesf wrote:

Lads, really you've both been around long enough to know not to get personal.

True enough nesf, my apologies. Regardless of what anyone else may think, I will be doing my best to make sure that this doesn't go ahead in it's current form. While that may have little effect, I'll be doing it regardless.

nesf

eo980 wrote:

True enough nesf, my apologies. Regardless of what anyone else may think, I will be doing my best to make sure that this doesn't go ahead in it's current form. While that may have little effect, I'll be doing it regardless.

Well wanting to maintain a shrine to failure is noble enough I suppose.

parsi

nesf wrote:

Well wanting to maintain a shrine to failure is noble enough I suppose.

"Noble Failure" is a better description.

Like it or lump it it is the visceral location of our fight for freedom.

nesf

parsi wrote:

"Noble Failure" is a better description.

Like it or lump it it is the visceral location of our fight for freedom.

One of the many to be fair. A bit like how the burning of Cork is seared into memories down here and similar incidents around the country.

Kilmainham is a more visceral location imho since the executions were what arguably set the whole thing off countrywide. The GPO is glorified by romanticists but really it wasn't a glorious stand that won our independence but a much bloodier and uglier thing that wasn't in any way "honourable".

Time Magazine

It is part of our fight for freedom. And our elected officials want to make it a museum and a few shops. So what? They're not making it a brothel.

parsi

nesf wrote:

One of the many to be fair. A bit like how the burning of Cork is seared into memories down here and similar incidents around the country.

Aye. And how would Corkonians like City Hall being converted into flats ?

Kilmainham is a more visceral location imho since the executions were what arguably set the whole thing off countrywide. The GPO is glorified by romanticists but really it wasn't a glorious stand that won our independence but a much bloodier and uglier thing that wasn't in any way "honourable".

Kilmainham is a much underplayed location - it is where the potential leaders of our state were murdered but yet the GPO has a political importance (as well as a transport importance in that it is the central point for mileage) seeing as that is the symbol of Insurrection...

Can you imagine the French turning the Bastille into an apartment blxok for some corrupt developer ?

nesf

parsi wrote:

Aye. And how would Corkonians like City Hall being converted into flats ?

Yeah, but City Hall and the GPO are hardly comparable tbh.

parsi wrote:

Kilmainham is a much underplayed location - it is where the potential leaders of our state were murdered but yet the GPO has a political importance (as well as a transport importance in that it is the central point for mileage) seeing as that is the symbol of Insurrection...

Can you imagine the French turning the Bastille into an apartment blxok for some corrupt developer ?

Yes, but it doesn't sound like the GPO is being turned into an apartment block. If they did it up nicely with a decent museum and galleries then it could work very well imho. I'll wait until I see a definite plan before forming an opinion on it. If they wanted to knock the place I'd agree with you but they don't.

PeakOutput

ye my bad aswell nesf although its the first time anyone has ever said i'v "been around long enough" refering to anything so not quite sure how thats gonna sit :cool:

Dr_Teeth

The idea sounds good in theory, but clearly the place will be filled with nothing but branded clothing shops and mobile phone kiosks within a year of opening.. urgh

nesf

PeakOutput wrote:

ye my bad aswell nesf although its the first time anyone has ever said i'v "been around long enough" refering to anything so not quite sure how thats gonna sit :cool:

I tend to expect better behaviour from people who've been around for a bit. Or at least for them to accept the punishment. Sometimes calling an idiot an idiot is worth taking a ban for it and all that.

PeakOutput

god damn it i missed my 1000th post

TwentyOneEleven

I think it should be turned into a complete slutfest trashy shopping centre. It's 2007 ffs, let's modernise.

Feral Mutant

The plan to celebrate it's two hundred years of existence and the hundredth anniversary of it's historical significance is to turn it into a shopping centre?

eo980 wrote:

This is shocking news. I can't believe the government could be serious in attempting to cheapen the image of this important and historic building.

I agree but I'm less surprised than I would have been before the Tara/motorway thing.

coyote6

A museum, cultural center, writer's museum (like the one on Parnell Sq.), art gallery etc. sound like viable options if done right, but a shopping center? It would create the opposite of synergy. And would a 15 story structure fit with the streetscape? I hope they really think this through and it's not something that's looked back on with regret.

arybvtcw0eolkf

"At present, An Post uses the GPO building as a company headquarters - and although it is a famous meeting point in the centre of Dublin it is generally considered that its presence has 'deadened' the area rather than adding to the vigour and attractiveness of O'Connell Street and the surrounding area. "


Sweet Jesus what a thing to say.

randylonghorn

" ... turn the iconic building and its huge interior courtyards into a mixed development of museums, restaurants, galleries, shops and performance areas for the arts."

Not so sure about shops, but a mix of a museum, performance areas and galleries wouldn't be bad ... and I could cope with a couple of restaurants to service visitors.

However, I think the front / ground floor part should remain as a working post office as it is now, and that this should be incorporated in the design. Move the An Post HQ elsewhere by all means. If you think about it, this would mean that the public would be able to access much more of this historic building than at present.

PeakOutput wrote:

what tourist wants to visit a post office??? but they will be more than happy to visit a historical building that has something extra ie museums galleries shops etc.

Strangely enough quite a few tourists do visit it, probably more so than Irish people (and not just to buy stamps for their postcards! ) but I agree, there's not much for them to do except walk in, look around and walk out. A good / sensitive development of the buildings could be a very positive thing ... but can we trust our government and their "super-trendy architects" to get it anywhere near right?

TwentyOneEleven wrote:

I think it should be turned into a complete slutfest trashy shopping centre. It's 2007 ffs, let's modernise.

If that's what you mean by modernise, it speaks for itself, tbh! I'm hoping you are being ironic ...

Reku

Considering the difficulties in doing anything with a victorian house due to preservation laws I would've thought something as significant to the Republic's history as the GPO would also be protected. I'd have no problem with them closing it and just having it as a museum, but any significant changes to the interior/exterior should be put up for referendum IMO.

jjbrien

farohar wrote:

Considering the difficulties in doing anything with a victorian house due to preservation laws I would've thought something as significant to the Republic's history as the GPO would also be protected. I'd have no problem with them closing it and just having it as a museum, but any significant changes to the interior/exterior should be put up for referendum IMO.

Look at the old town hall in Bray a very old building that now houses a Mc Donalds. They kept most of the old stuff but its still a horrible Mc Donalds.

BuffyBot

Ermm, doesn't it already have a shopping centre lopped on to the back of it anyway? I can't really see what difference it makes if they don't maker changes to the building itself.

AlmightyCushion

jjbrien wrote:

Look at the old town hall in Bray a very old building that now houses a Mc Donalds. They kept most of the old stuff but its still a horrible Mc Donalds.

Please tell me that is a joke.

jjbrien

AlmightyCushion wrote:

Please tell me that is a joke.

Nope very ture.

AlmightyCushion

jjbrien wrote:

Nope very ture.

What is the world coming to?