The Jews did it !

StephenC_IRL

well if the media can accuse muslims of everything then i can accuse someone else. Our world is far to focussed on terrorism and the stigma that goes with being of the islamic faith is huge. I even heard on the radio the other day that the capsising of the boats in that rigatta was first thought to be a terrorist attack by islamic extremists. A terrorist attack Im aware some muslims have done some things but come one people its just madness now. I think we all need to ease up on the terrorism a little.

And the media seems to portray the muslim faith as the only one of having extremists, everyone forgets about those catholic extremists who bombed omagh or the extremists on grafton street trying to force their "abortion is evil" propoganda on you.

Or the protestant extremists *cough*Ian Paisley*cough*

we all have to stop the bias against muslims and the like

MooseJam

well maybe if they stopped blowing people up

Mr.Nice Guy

Jaysus surely the Jews have been through enough? :rolleyes:

Pick on the mormons. Something not right about those chaps what with their cheerful attitudes and pleasantries....

galwayrush

time to leave jews alone.
ffs too serious talk when pissed.
ban serious talk after 1 am

DemocAnarchis

StephenC_IRL wrote:

everyone forgets about those catholic extremists who bombed omagh

I have to object to this. The IRA were/are not catholic extremists. They are nationalistic extremists who happen to be catholic. The acts of the IRA and the corresponding UVF etc were not motivated on religious grounds, but on political grounds. It just so happens that the opposing sides of the political reality are of opposing religions, but religion was never the issue it was touted to be in the Northern Irish conflict.

The same might be said for the Muslim extremists to a lesser extent- They are extremists with a political agenda against America and the "West" in general. They wrap it in a loose veil of Jihad, but that seems to be mainly a recruiting tactic. The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is also like this to an extent; although the religious differences are highlighted, the problems are political ones.

A generalisation would be to say that there are no truely religious conflicts, just conflicts between groups who happen to be of differing religions.

colm-ccfc84

Religion- the root of a substantial amount of evil in the world.

tolosenc

What holocaust? :P

He has a point in fairness. I remember watching Fox News (DON'T EVER DO IT) and them saying that an earthquake in Southern California "cannot at present be confirmed as non-terrorist related". Sure a small minority off them are nut-jobs, but we really shouldn't go tarring with only one brush (nor am I suggesting we tar them). All religious groups have their own shares too, Christians in the US for example.

Piste

On the subject of terrorism, why do they do it? Is it against the West or against all non-muslims cos they wan't everyone to be Muslim? I just don't get it!

Karl Hungus

Hey! The Jews gave us Jerry Seinfeld. What have the Muslims ever given us?

Shabadu

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/JEWS_DID_WTC

shoutman

Cat Stevens maybe,.... jesus christ and I thought you knew about music...

Edit: Lets face it, muslims, Jews, Mormans, Normans and all other groups of individuals are the devil incarnate... and dont get me started on those Bi/Gay/Lesbians... (I feel I must further edit this to let everyone know that I am joking)

Zillah

StephenC_IRL wrote:

we all have to stop the bias against muslims and the like

No, we should extend our bias to all sorts of people with ridiculous intolerant beliefs. I think Islam is a horrible religion, as are Catholicism, Scientology and dozens of others. Yes, its not fair to pick on Islam, but you're going the wrong direction here.

ejmaztec

StephenC_IRL wrote:

well if the media can accuse muslims of everything then i can accuse someone else. Our world is far to focussed on terrorism and the stigma that goes with being of the islamic faith is huge. I even heard on the radio the other day that the capsising of the boats in that rigatta was first thought to be a terrorist attack by islamic extremists. A terrorist attack Im aware some muslims have done some things but come one people its just madness now. I think we all need to ease up on the terrorism a little.

And the media seems to portray the muslim faith as the only one of having extremists, everyone forgets about those catholic extremists who bombed omagh or the extremists on grafton street trying to force their "abortion is evil" propoganda on you.

Or the protestant extremists *cough*Ian Paisley*cough*

we all have to stop the bias against muslims and the like

I don't think that Catholics, Protestants or Muslims have much of a say in how any of them are portrayed by the media, especially the US media.

andy1249

On the subject of terrorism, why do they do it? Is it against the West or against all non-muslims cos they wan't everyone to be Muslim? I just don't get it!

Cmon man , are you serious ? , Maybe when you have your kids blown asunder in front of your eyes by an american bomb for the want of oil you'll be able to understand !

monkeyfudge

shoutman wrote:

Cat Stevens maybe,.... jesus christ and I thought you knew about music...

Other way around actually... The Muslim faith took Cat Stevens away from us... He stopped making music when he converted as music and song is a no-go area under certain muslim faiths.

As religions go it really is a particularly silly one...

And do remember that the jews are an ethnic group... religion doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it.

mikemac

StephenC_IRL wrote:

Or the protestant extremists *cough*Ian Paisley*cough*

Ian Paisley is not a Protestant, he is a Presbyterian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Paisley

Shabadu

micmclo wrote:

Ian Paisley is not a Protestant, he is a Presbyterian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Paisley

...



I seriously hope you're joking- either way I just pissed myself laughing.

Victor

micmclo wrote:

Ian Paisley is not a Protestant, he is a Presbyterian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Paisley

Are Presbyterians not Protestants?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Paisley

Paisley promotes a highly conservative form of Biblical literalism, which he describes as "Bible Protestantism".

"Paisley eventually set up his own newspaper, the Protestant Telegraph, a strongly anti-Catholic paper, as a mechanism for further spreading his message. A website, the Institute of Protestant Studies, fills that role today. He has authored numerous books and pamphlets on religious and political subjects including a commentary on the Epistle to the Romans."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyterian

Presbyterianism is a tradition shared by a number of Christian denominations which is most prevalent within the Reformed branch of Protestant Western Christianity.

Mahatma coat

OP & Others, check out the Docco "The power of nightmares" should answer alot ofyer Questions

luckat

It's those damn humans, they're the ones to blame.

Zillah

Piste wrote:

On the subject of terrorism, why do they do it? Is it against the West or against all non-muslims cos they wan't everyone to be Muslim? I just don't get it!

Its complicated. The men who organise it can be one of two types: Relgious or pretending to be religious. There are some who genuinely believe a certain reading of the Koran that allows for suicidal attacks against the public and feel it is the will of God that they do so. The other kind are ones who have a purely political agenda against the West, or just plain angry angry people, and use religious beliefs to make a big statement. The men who actually carry out the bombings are almost invariably isolated young men who are desperate to feel important.

pickarooney

monkeyfudge wrote:

Other way around actually... The Muslim faith took Cat Stevens away from us... He stopped making music when he converted as music and song is a no-go area under certain muslim faiths.

But Ronan won him back over!

wikipedia wrote:

In December 2004, he and Ronan Keating released a new version of "Father and Son".

monkeyfudge

Ah good old Ronan... he's like a modern day version of the crusades.

Turkilton

andy1249 wrote:

Cmon man , are you serious ? , Maybe when you have your kids blown asunder in front of your eyes by an american bomb for the want of oil you'll be able to understand !

You sir, are an idiot

Laslo

StephenC_IRL wrote:

well if the media can accuse muslims of everything then i can accuse someone else.

Spoken like a true 4 year old.

StephenC_IRL wrote:

Our world is far to focussed on terrorism and the stigma that goes with being of the islamic faith is huge.

What the hell are you talking about? There are bombs, beheadings and general mayhem going on daily; terrorism is a huge threat. Maybe not so much in Ireland but you only have to look at events in the US, UK, Spain, The Netherlands, Africa, Thailand, Chechnya, Indonesia... the list goes on forever.

That's not to say that Muslims are responsible for all the atrocities perpetrated in this places (I'm looking at you US, UK, Israel and Russia) but they generally have one thing in common - Muslims are involved on one side or other. I'm not making judgements, just saying is all. Either there's an unfair war on Muslims for whatever reason, or they're so wrapped up in terrorism that the worlds super-powers have had enough of them. Or a mixture of both perhaps. Or you could argue that it's a result of complex geo-political issues and let the argument go around in circles forever.

StephenC_IRL wrote:

I even heard on the radio the other day that the capsising of the boats in that rigatta was first thought to be a terrorist attack by islamic extremists.

Hahaha. I'm assuming that either a) you're lying or b) it was a joke.

StephenC_IRL wrote:

A terrorist attack Im aware some muslims have done some things but come one people its just madness now. I think we all need to ease up on the terrorism a little.

Hahaha. What are you talking about? There are hundred of people being massacred on a daily basis by terrorists, it's a pretty serious threat. You think we should just ignore it? Sure there are other issues we can concentrate on (and we do) such as the environment, world hunger, etc. But come on now - you can't seriously be of the opinion that we should ignore terrorism and hope if goes away? Or that we should try and make some kind of myth of the grim realities of Islamofascism/Salifism? Get real.

StephenC_IRL wrote:

And the media seems to portray the muslim faith as the only one of having extremists

No they don't. That's simply not true.

StephenC_IRL wrote:

everyone forgets about those catholic extremists who bombed omagh

They were nationalist extremists (supposedly) fighting an empire - not Catholic extremists fighting non-believers in the name of Jesus.

StephenC_IRL wrote:

or the extremists on grafton street trying to force their "abortion is evil" propoganda on you.

Yes, Islamic extremists have loads in common with anti-abortion campaigners. :rolleyes: I won't get into the abortion debate as I don't know enough about it, but I'm not 100% convinced that it's not evil/selfish in many cases.

StephenC_IRL wrote:

we all have to stop the bias against muslims and the like

As long as Muslims are bombing towns and cities in the Western world, I'll always have a healthy suspicion of them. I have several Muslim friends in the West Midlands (UK) and they feel the same. Like it or not Stephen, terrorism is real. Not just something Sky News made up.

FunkZ

MooseJam wrote:

well maybe if they stopped blowing people up

I really wish we could put quotes in our signatures on this site!

SimpleSam06

Piste wrote:

On the subject of terrorism, why do they do it? Is it against the West or against all non-muslims cos they wan't everyone to be Muslim? I just don't get it!

You can mostly point at US meddling in the middle east for that one, and going further back, cack-handed British efforts, which created Iraq in the first place (there is no historic nation called Iraq, its an artificial political entity - see most of the map of Africa for further highly intelligent British decisions on geography).

In Iran, in 1951 Prime Minister Mohammed Mosaddeq received the vote required from the parliament to nationalize the British-owned oil industry, in a situation known as the Abadan Crisis. The former colonial powers and the US of course didn't take that lightly, and tried to overturn the Iranian government, successfully, but that collapsed in 1979 when the Shah (puppet ruler) was overthrown. Cue Islamic republic being formed, with naturally a huge anti western bias, giving us modern day Iran.

My understanding of the Al-Quaeda situation is that Osama Bin Laden was a big cheese in the resistance to Russian occupation of Afghanistan, one of the Saudi Royal family.

After Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, bin Laden offered to help defend Saudi Arabia (with 12,000 armed men) but was rebuffed by the Saudi government. Bin Laden publicly denounced his government's dependence on the U.S. military and demanded an end to the presence of foreign military bases in the country. This is the heart of the problems there, pathetic as it seems, the wounded pride of a bitch queen.

About Israel: Following World War II, the British announced their intention to withdraw from the British mandate of Palestine. The United Nations General Assembly proposed the partition of Palestine into two states, an Arab state and a Jewish state, with the city of Jerusalem to be under the direct administration of the United Nations. While most Jews in Palestine accepted the proposal, most of the Arabs in Palestine rejected it.

Violence between Arab and Jewish communities erupted almost immediately. Toward the end of the British mandate, the Jews planned to declare a separate state, a development the Arabs were determined to prevent. On May 14, 1948, the last British forces withdrew from Palestine, and the Jews, led by David Ben-Gurion, declared the creation of the State of Israel, in accordance with the 1947 UN Partition Plan. Arab countries refused to recognize the State of Israel, and attacked that same day, thus igniting the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Israel prevailed, and established borders which remained in place until the 1967 Six Day War.

So those, in summary, are the root causes for the terrorism. I'll say that in my opinion, Islam is a wretched misogynistic death cult only given legitimacy by the surplus of vital resources that happen to be located in primarily Islamic regions, and it should be driven off the map, and consigned to the dusty annals of history.

A hundred years ago, they were riding around on camels and shitting in tents. In a hundred years, that's where they will be again.

Zillah

Turkilton wrote:

You sir, are an idiot

I would counter with, "No you are." He's perfectly right, American military interference in the Middle East is the number one reason international terrorism exists. Period. The whole concept of violent Jihad is based on the notion of defence. Stop invading their countries and there wouldn't be much to defend against.

StephenC_IRL

DemocAnarchis wrote:

I have to object to this. The IRA were/are not catholic extremists. They are nationalistic extremists who happen to be catholic. The acts of the IRA and the corresponding UVF etc were not motivated on religious grounds, but on political grounds. It just so happens that the opposing sides of the political reality are of opposing religions, but religion was never the issue it was touted to be in the Northern Irish conflict.

The same might be said for the Muslim extremists to a lesser extent- They are extremists with a political agenda against America and the "West" in general. They wrap it in a loose veil of Jihad, but that seems to be mainly a recruiting tactic. The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is also like this to an extent; although the religious differences are highlighted, the problems are political ones.

A generalisation would be to say that there are no truely religious conflicts, just conflicts between groups who happen to be of differing religions.

haha thats what i wanted you to say, yes thats true, and im sure a few of the terror attacks blamed on extremist muslims had the same grounds, everyone thinks its a religious issue, but i guarentee alot of it is politically motivated

Zillah

StephenC_IRL wrote:

but i guarentee alot of it is politically motivated

How many of the suicide bombers of the last decade do you think might have not done it if they weren't convinced they were going to get a special place in heaven because of it?

StephenC_IRL

Karl Hungus wrote:

Hey! The Jews gave us Jerry Seinfeld. What have the Muslims ever given us?

that iranian comedian, kebabs, turkish baths, nice mosques, yet anither reason not to like the jews

Wertz

Jesus was a jew. I land the blame squarely at his door.

ejmaztec

StephenC_IRL wrote:

that iranian comedian, kebabs, turkish baths, nice mosques, yet anither reason not to like the jews

And where would we be without proper numbers, instead of them there Roman things?

SimpleSam06

ejmaztec wrote:

And where would we be without proper numbers, instead of them there Roman things?

That would be Indian numerals, incorrectly called Arabic...

The numerals arose in India between 400 BC and 400 AD. They were transmitted first to West Asia, where they find mention in the 9th century, and eventually to Europe in the 10th century. Since knowledge of the numerals reached Europe through the work of Arab and Persian mathematicians and astronomers, the numerals came to be called "Arabic numerals."

ejmaztec

SimpleSam06 wrote:

That would be Indian numerals, incorrectly called Arabic...

Well, well, well, another reason for the hatred of many Indians towards Muslims - they stole their numbers!

At least we won't be alone in the fighting when the s**t really hits the fan!

Demonique

Laslo wrote:

Yes, Islamic extremists have loads in common with anti-abortion campaigners. :rolleyes: I won't get into the abortion debate as I don't know enough about it, but I'm not 100% convinced that it's not evil/selfish in many cases.
QUOTE]

What about the anti-abortionist who shot that doctor in the US because he performed abortions? What about those who threaten to blow up abortion clinics?

One journalist at the recent Miss D case said that one of the anti-abortion protesters said 'I know where you live' and threatened to burn his house down.

Charming people

The_Minister

StephenC_IRL wrote:

the extremists on grafton street trying to force their "abortion is evil" propoganda on you.

Oh yes, they are soooooo evil. Watch out for their fearsome pamplets.

Laslo

Demonique wrote:

What about the anti-abortionist who shot that doctor in the US because he performed abortions? What about those who threaten to blow up abortion clinics?

Oh right. So they both carry out and/or threaten violence and that makes them equitable. I don't know why Islamic militants and anti-abortion groups don't just form an alliance. They seem to have so much in common.

Demonique wrote:

One journalist at the recent Miss D case said that one of the anti-abortion protesters said 'I know where you live' and threatened to burn his house down.

Charming people

What's your point?

MooseJam

monkeyfudge wrote:

And do remember that the jews are an ethnic group... religion doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it.

no they ain't I can convert to jew

philologos

Piste wrote:

On the subject of terrorism, why do they do it? Is it against the West or against all non-muslims cos they wan't everyone to be Muslim? I just don't get it!

Well basically the countries targetted are often carrying out their own terrorism in other areas of the Middle East. I'd see Israel as the prime example of this, USA, Britain, and Spain before the election in 2004. Spain hasn't been targetted since their troops were moved out of Iraq.

Wompa1

One things for sure, its us that are right and everyone else is wrong, I say we get together some weekend, not next weekend cus I'll be drinking but some other weekend and we can plan the future and how to wipe out all the 'problem' groups...The Corrib Gas Line will be laid with no interuptions, Democracy will be widespread only to be ruined by the rampant spread of socialism and we'll all drive Saab's...Go Boards Go

DemocAnarchis

Zillah wrote:

How many of the suicide bombers of the last decade do you think might have not done it if they weren't convinced they were going to get a special place in heaven because of it?

Probably not too many, but that isnt the point. The conflict is politically motivated, but uses the subtext of a Jihad to recruit impressionable youngsters who commite these atrocities.

monkeyfudge

MooseJam wrote:

no they ain't I can convert to jew

You can convert to Judaism... but the Jews are a specific ethnic group as well, with several sub groups to boot.

Also, I'd be Jewish on my mothers side... but I have absolutely no faith in their archaic religion. I do have a great deal of respect for the culture though.

There's a huge amount of aspects to being Jewish that have nothing to do with religion.

Tha Gopher

monkeyfudge wrote:

And do remember that the jews are an ethnic group... religion doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it.

In fairness theres a reason that Russian Jews look much like regular Russians and Ethiopian Jews like other Africans, the one race thing is pretty diluted over the last 2000 (unless ancient Israel was populated by white Jews, Jews that look Mid Eastern and black Jews, which i doubt somewhat). Being pro Palestinian Ive always thought the right to return arguement makes as much sense as Irish people of Celtic and Viking origin going to Scandanavia and Austria to throw out the natives and reclaim our former land, and that the way the world stood back while people were thrown out of their homeland by a group taking a very liberal interpretation of a religious belief. re your own lineage re what you said about your mothers side, id imagine you have more genetically in common with the average East European in Dublin rather than an Iraqi born jew (assuming thats your mothers waaayyy back place of origin, tbh i cant recall ever meeting an Irish jew. Or any Jew for that matter)

Having said all of that I dont buy the "Jews flew the planes by remote control on 9/11" cock.

Tha Gopher

obl wrote:

What holocaust? :P

Show some respect, my grandad died in a concentration camp. As he was coming off duty he slipped, fell off his guard tower and cracked his skull......




Yeah, the third coat there, the black one, yep, thats mine :rolleyes: *leaves*

MooseJam

monkeyfudge wrote:

You can convert to Judaism... but the Jews are a specific ethnic group as well, with several sub groups to boot.

Also, I'd be Jewish on my mothers side... but I have absolutely no faith in their archaic religion. I do have a great deal of respect for the culture though.

There's a huge amount of aspects to being Jewish that have nothing to do with religion.

The Jews aren't an ethnic group, Jews come from all over the world, Africa, South America etc etc, you might be refering to the ones in the middle east, they are just the same as the Palestinians and Arabs

monkeyfudge

Tha Gopher wrote:

In fairness theres a reason that Russian Jews look much like regular Russians and Ethiopian Jews like other Africans, the one race thing is pretty diluted over the last 2000 (unless ancient Israel was populated by white Jews, Jews that look Mid Eastern and black Jews, which i doubt somewhat). Being pro Palestinian Ive always thought the right to return arguement makes as much sense as Irish people of Celtic and Viking origin going to Scandanavia and Austria to throw out the natives and reclaim our former land.

That's a valid enough point... but a person can still be Jewish, and quite clearly Jewish without ever having anything to do with the faith.

Agamemnon

SimpleSam06 wrote:

So those, in summary, are the root causes for the terrorism. I'll say that in my opinion, Islam is a wretched misogynistic death cult only given legitimacy by the surplus of vital resources that happen to be located in primarily Islamic regions, and it should be driven off the map, and consigned to the dusty annals of history.

A hundred years ago, they were riding around on camels and shitting in tents. In a hundred years, that's where they will be again.

Excellent post, SimpleSam06. I might add that the terrorism problem will only get worse when the oil runs out. Even the middle eastern countries thought to be friendly to the west, like Saudi Arabia, are only that way because their rulers are mollified with large amounts of western cash. Some of these countries, like Oman, are making the the effort to invest their oil wealth in things like infrastructure and education, but too often the money is squandered on shite like more limos and palaces while unemployment is rampant, creating a disaffected underclass ripe for recruitment by jihadists.

When the oil is gone, you can be sure the new terrorist recruiting pitch will go like this: "The westerners stole all our oil and now they've abandoned us to poverty. Let's overthrow the traitorous rulers that let it happen and set up an Islamic state. Then we can strike back as a nation with an army rather than as a band of guerillas."

Zillah

agamemnon wrote:

When the oil is gone, you can be sure the new terrorist recruiting pitch will go like this: "The westerners stole all our oil and now they've abandoned us to poverty. Let's overthrow the traitorous rulers that let it happen and set up an Islamic state. Then we can strike back as a nation with an army rather than as a band of guerillas."

Yes but once that happens we don't care what happens their crappy corner of the world...bombs away. Yee haw.

Americans...

ejmaztec

agamemnon wrote:

When the oil is gone, you can be sure the new terrorist recruiting pitch will go like this: "The westerners stole all our oil and now they've abandoned us to poverty. Let's overthrow the traitorous rulers that let it happen and set up an Islamic state. Then we can strike back as a nation with an army rather than as a band of guerillas."

By the time the oil runs out, their treacherous rulers will have legged it to the South of France. They will own most of Europe, most of the multi-national companies - and we'll all work for them, double pay if you convert to Islam.

biko

When the oil is gone, that is the end of civilisation as we know it.
Without fuel food cannot be transported from the farm to the cities. This means big cities will collapse whereas smaller communities that can access crops will survive.
Industrial nations will crumple. Perhaps this will be best for the planet.