Using the hard shoulder

Floppybits

Driving home everyday from work I use the M50 southbound, I have noticed that people are now driving in the hard shoulder to get to their exit if there is a queue.

Last night took the biscuit really, I get on the M50 at the M1 roundabout and I am crawling along as is normal on the M50 when I see two car undertake me using the hard shoulder, at first I thought they were unmarked police cars but they didnt have their lights on, any time I have seen garda cars marked or unmarked do this they have their lights on, Anyway these two cars then drove straight across the ballymum exit and continued up the hardshoulder. I am starting to see this more and more and I am wondering have these people any idea on how dangerous it is to do this. Now its not just cars that do it but also trucks. Its this sort of the lunacy that will get people killed.

I am sure it is illegal to drive in the hard shoulder for any reason or has this now changed?

John R

No it hasn't changed, it is still very much illegal. And as you say it is extremely dangerous. But like everything else in Ireland it is only really illegal if there is somone there to catch you.

It's the same as some of the scummers on these boards who admit to driving in bus lanes because the chance of getting caught is slim and the odd fine every 6 months is worth it. What you don't understand is that their lives are more important than yours so they have the right to ignore those silly rules.

Chris_533976

They used to do this down in Cork before the flyover at the Kinsale Road roundabout was completed. People used to go down the hard shoulder eastbound, cut across a sliproad coming onto the DC and then go left at the roundabout (or cut across the traffic when they got onto the roundabout and skip the queue).

It magically stopped once a police car hid itself up the sliproad and nabbed everyone doing it.

Was funny one day, sitting in traffic everyone jeering at the FIVE cars queued up in the hard shoulder with worried looking drivers ready for a bollicking by the garda who was moving from one to the next

Tazdedub

I have seen this myself on the M50. My own feeling is that its getting very dangerous on the roads these days. It seems a lot of people are willing to put not just their own lives in danger but also the lives of others so that they can get a couple of cars ahead in traffic. Very scary.

spockety

Tazdedub wrote:

I have seen this myself on the M50. My own feeling is that its getting very dangerous on the roads these days. It seems a lot of people are willing to put not just their own lives in danger but also the lives of others so that they can get a couple of cars ahead in traffic. Very scary.

I saw an absolutley NUTS one yesterday on the M50 northbound approaching the M1 roundabout..

Truck in front of me in driving lane, good few cars in the overtaking lane as well. Truck indicates to pull out into overtaking lane and has space... car to my right accelerates to cut him off, and does so, truck starts moving into overtaking lane once this muppet had done his muppetry, only another absolute plonk behind the first muppet than ALSO accelerates WHILE the truck is performing his manouever (presumably to get in lane for the tunnel) and already half way into the overtaking lane.. so plonk has to seriously floor it and ends up with half his car on the median at about 80mph just so he can get one over on the trucker!

corktina

loads of pratts like that about...regretably the average Irish drivers manners are appalling compared to UK drivers.....as are their anticipation skills....

Tazdedub

I learned to drive in the UK and passed my test there. I have been traffic jams on the orbital around london and in other places but I never ever seen anyone driving up the hard shoulder.

The thing that scares me is the absolute disregard for other road users safety never mind their own safety and this is just to beat the traffic.

Maybe Ireland should look to the US and have a Motorway police force who just patrol the Motorways. This might stop some of the stupidity.

robfitz

Floppybits wrote:

I am sure it is illegal to drive in the hard shoulder for any reason or has this now changed?

There is not such thing as a hard shoulder in Irish law. It's illegal to not drive on the carriageway, but the concept is the same. If you get caught doing it you can get yourself 1 penalty point or 3 on conviction.

[post=53520966]Related post on the topic.[/post]

Zoney

Chris_533976 wrote:

It magically stopped once a police car hid itself up the sliproad and nabbed everyone doing it.

Surprise, surprise, the answer as to how one cuts down on people breaking laws is to enforce them a bit (as opposed to not at all in many cases in Ireland). But oh no, it'd cost too much to train and hire more guards and sure broken laws don't cost anyone anything... An arm and a leg you say?

It'd be nice to see our politicians at least pretend to properly run the place. Is it any wonder Dublin, Limerick and probably eventually Cork too are turning into mini-Beiruts?

Wishbone Ash

One annoying aspect of motorists forming a queue in the hard shoulder in advance of an exit is that law-abiding motorists are then forced to form a second queue on the left lane of the carriageway (to the right of the illegal queue).

They then have to try to merge into the slip lane where it commences while being hooted at by the muppets in the hard shoulder who assume that they are skipping the queue. :rolleyes:

(The queue for the N3 exit on the M50 southbound is a good example of this nonsense).

A Dub in Glasgo

Lack of basic traffic law enforcement is the cause of all this stupidity

Capt'n Midnight

up near leeds there is a trial scheme where you can use the hard shoulder during peak traffic , but they have plenty of signs and enforcement and variable speed limit signs on the lanes.

on motorways the edge of the road has a solid yellow line so you can't cross into it to drive. On N routes it's a dashed line so you can pull into let traffic past. Personally on the N routes where the hard shoulder is as wide as a normal lane I rather have the extra lane.

John R

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Personally on the N routes where the hard shoulder is as wide as a normal lane I rather have the extra lane.

Cyclists, pedestrians and people who live on the roads probably wouldn't agree.

cyclopath2001

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

On N routes it's a dashed line so you can pull into let traffic past.

Do you have any legal backup for this?

Chris_533976

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

up near leeds there is a trial scheme where you can use the hard shoulder during peak traffic , but they have plenty of signs and enforcement and variable speed limit signs on the lanes.

on motorways the edge of the road has a solid yellow line so you can't cross into it to drive. On N routes it's a dashed line so you can pull into let traffic past. Personally on the N routes where the hard shoulder is as wide as a normal lane I rather have the extra lane.

They do this all the time in Germany. There are automatic signs that open up the hard shoulder as a lane.

John R

cyclopath2001 wrote:

Do you have any legal backup for this?

It is in the ROTR.

Drax

Floppybits wrote:

Driving home everyday from work I use the M50 southbound, I have noticed that people are now driving in the hard shoulder to get to their exit if there is a queue.

I was just thinking the same thing 2 nights ago Floppy. I was just past Tallaght and the amount of muppets flying up the hard shoulder to the Ballymount exit was unreal. More than normal. All that is needed is a biker cop stuck in the side of the shoulder and book them one by one.

Then yesterday morning - you should have seen the chaos at the Blanch exit as cars who correctly went off at the exit were nearly hitting cars and even a truck coming down the shoulder. It was a fúcking disgrace.

Traffic Corps me hole. Maybe they should just stick a mannequin dressed in a hi-viz vest on the hard shoulder. Might deter them.

cyclopath2001

John R wrote:

It is in the ROTR.

Since the law stipulates that the broken yellow line RRM025 indicates the edge of a roadway, anyone driving along a hard shoulder it would be breaking the law. Technically this would apply to cycling too, but let's turn a benign blind-eye to that.

The statement in the ROTR is recommendation about voluntarily 'pulling over' to allow other vehicles to pass. I suggest that this is intended to cover slow-moving vehicles such as agricultural machinery which might pull over and stop to allow following traffic to pass, before continuing.

The practice of cars moving into the hard shoulder and continuing to drive at normal speed, to allow other faster vehicles to pass is dangerous and illegal.

corktina

the concept of "if it is safe to do so" is a flawed one since if you have an accident it obviously wasnt safe for you to do so. Having said that I ALWAYS move over for faster traffic...usually because Id rather they got to the speed trap before I do.....i think it is courteous and shows awareness of other traffic...im convinced that many cars dont pull over becuase they dont usr their mirrors....

cyclopath2001

corktina wrote:

.im convinced that many cars dont pull over becuase they dont usr their mirrors....

Or they don't want to break the law.

yayamark

cool this is gonna turn ino another garda bashing thread when it started off giving out about people driving on the hard shoulder.

are these the same people who give out about the gaurds stopping them for sppeding

cant wait

Stark

cyclopath2001 wrote:

The practice of cars moving into the hard shoulder and continuing to drive at normal speed, to allow other faster vehicles to pass is dangerous and illegal.

Where does it say it's illegal? As you've said yourself, the RotR allows for pulling over to let other vehicles past. The only reason you've given for it being supposedly illegal is that you think they meant to say something else.

Victor

Stark wrote:

Where does it say it's illegal? As you've said yourself, the RotR allows for pulling over to let other vehicles past.

The RotR is not a legal interpretation.

The only reason you've given for it being supposedly illegal is that you think they meant to say something else.

It doesn't matter what the legislation was meant to say, it is what it does say.

John R

cyclopath2001 wrote:

Since the law stipulates that the broken yellow line RRM025 indicates the edge of a roadway,

INCORRECT

cyclopath2001 wrote:

anyone driving along a hard shoulder it would be breaking the law. Technically this would apply to cycling too, but let's turn a benign blind-eye to that.

INCORRECT

cyclopath2001 wrote:

The statement in the ROTR is recommendation about voluntarily 'pulling over' to allow other vehicles to pass. I suggest that this is intended to cover slow-moving vehicles such as agricultural machinery which might pull over and stop to allow following traffic to pass, before continuing.

You can suggest whatever you like but seeing as you obviously do not know the law then your suggestions are best ignored.

cyclopath2001 wrote:

The practice of cars moving into the hard shoulder and continuing to drive at normal speed, to allow other faster vehicles to pass is dangerous and illegal.

It is NOT illegal, as for being dangerous that would entirely depend on the individual circumstance.

Why don't you find out what the laws are rather than making inaccurate statements based on what you think they are.

cyclopath2001

John R wrote:

INCORRECT... INCORRECT...INCORRECT...You can suggest whatever you like but seeing as you obviously do not know the law then your suggestions are best ignored. Why don't you find out what the laws are rather than making inaccurate statements based on what you think they are.

Actually, I DID check the law before I posted. Did you?

S.I. No. 181/1997 — Road Traffic (Signs) Regulations, 1997.28. Traffic sign number RRM 025 shall—(a) indicate the line of the edge of a roadway, other than a motorway, and (b) consist of a broken yellow line along the edge of a roadway, consisting of segments not less than 100 millimetres and not more than 150 millimetres wide, approximately 2 metres long and approximately 2 metres apart.

S.I. No. 182/1997 — Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 19979. Save where otherwise required by these Regulations, a vehicle shall be driven on the left hand side of the roadway.

The broken yellow line indicates the edge of the roadway. The law requires a vehicle to be driven on the roadway.

Have I missed something?

corktina

common sense would suggest that most rules can be taken with a pinch of salt.
I would HOPE that Gardai wouldnt waste public money by prosecuting someone for having the courtesy to move out of the way of faster trafiic when it was safe to do so.
Rather they should prosecute those people who hog the overtaking or middle lanes or who refuse to move over into the slow lane where it is provided and marked as such.
Id like to compliment the majority of Truckers who regularly do get out of the way , unlike the majority of car drivers who dont.
(Im a White Van Driver....I can do whatever I want with the special immunity we have...:)

cyclopath2001

corktina wrote:

common sense would suggest that most rules can be taken with a pinch of salt.

Such as cycling on the footpath or through traffic lights on red? Or, driving 'a little bit' over the speed limit?

No pun intended, but where do you draw the line?

corktina

dotted line down the edge of the hard shoulder perhaps.....:)

Capt'n Midnight

corktina wrote:

Id like to compliment the majority of Truckers who regularly do get out of the way , unlike the majority of car drivers who dont.
(Im a White Van Driver....I can do whatever I want with the special immunity we have...:)

don't get me started about the really wide parts of the N9 , including hard shoulder you could have lanes, but it's impossible to overtake , unless yer man in front is an artic.

What's the story with those wheelchair accessible taxi's that are just white van's with seats - double immunity !!

Victor

corktina wrote:

Im a White Van Driver

Banned

BrianD3

Re: pulling into the hard shoulder and stopping vs pulling in and continuing to drive. I think its pretty clear that the ROTR is referring to the latter. It talks about the HS not being a normal driving lane but that it can be pulled into temporarily to let other vehicles past if there are no pedestrians or entrances nearby (think the last part was only aded in the latest ROTR) From the wording and context it is clearly talking about pulling over and driving in the HS, not pulling over and stopping.

And yes, the ROTR is a guidance document and not the actual law but lets face it, nobody is ever going to be prosecuted for following the ROTR interpretation of the law.