Irelands first black mayor - Integration working?

Zombrex

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0628/adebarir.html

"A Nigerian who arrived in Ireland as an asylum-seeker seven years ago is set to become the country's first black mayor in Portlaoise.

Rotimi Adebari, who was born in Okeodan in southwest Nigeria, is expected to take the chain of office in Portlaoise this evening."

Now don't know anything about the guy, so I don't want to fall fowl of any reverse racism and assume he is personally great just because he is black.

But I do think it is a good sign of how integration can work in Ireland, and a welcoming sign that people in Irish communities can see past stereotypes of colour and heritage

http://www.politics.ie/wiki/index.php?title=Rotimi_Adebari
http://exceptional-lives.blogspot.com/2006/05/intergrating-ireland-who-is-rotimi.html
http://www.socialentrepreneurs.ie/home/social_entrepreneurs/awardees/

is_that_so

A very positive example indeed although being the first it could cast an uncomfortable spotlight on him.

Another aspect to highlight here for those unhappy with our political system is how few votes are actually required to get onto a local council.

Zombrex

is_that_so wrote:

Another aspect to highlight here for those unhappy with our political system is how few votes are actually required to get onto a local council.

that a good thing or a bad thing?

is_that_so

Wicknight wrote:

that a good thing or a bad thing?

It's just a statement of fact. Adebari went out and got himself elected, which is a positive. In most local elections less than 1000 votes is more than adequate to get people a council seat.

Victor Meldrew

One Mayor does not mean integration is working, it's a positive step, and a nice high profile , local position, but that's all. I would question if we even have an integration policy / programme.

stipey

Didn't the key parties (FF, FG and Lab I think) on the councils broker a deal whereby they rotate the position between them. I presume its some kind of block voting arrangement. I'm almost certain this is the case in Dublin anyway.

While if democratic it would definitely be a step in the right direction... it might be as case that it just happened to be his turn.

Zombrex

is_that_so wrote:

It's just a statement of fact. Adebari went out and got himself elected, which is a positive. In most local elections less than 1000 votes is more than adequate to get people a council seat.

Sorry, what I was asking was were you saying

it is bad that people can get elected to power with so few votes?

or

it is good that people can get elected to local positions because it gives ordinary people dissatisfied with politics an ability to actually change things

not an attack, just wondering. Either point is valid.

Zombrex

Victor Meldrew wrote:

One Mayor does not mean integration is working, it's a positive step, and a nice high profile , local position, but that's all. I would question if we even have an integration policy / programme.

Well I meant it more as an example of integration working, not to say that integration as a whole is working.

Adebari seems quite involved in local integration programs, and I hope this is a sign that these are working and that he is gaining respect in Laois because of this.

An example for others possibly

modalcommand

Something with this just doesn't wash with me.

That this man can go on the news and tell the country that he left Nigeria to escape religious persecution. Just stop lying to us. You came here for a better life. Otherwise you would have just jumped borders in Africa somewhere. Full respect of getting into the council and doing something with your life but the fact of the matter is this man is somebody who abused are asylum system like many others.

Plust the amount of racist arselicking going on here just because its a black man .

mike65

I suspect it proves little or nothing, as mentioned the mayoral system works on Buggins Turn method, I presume (no detail in the rte report) that it was the turn for an independent and so he got the gig. It might be a case of the others not wanting to seem parochial or even racist gave him the nod.

Plust the amount of racist arselicking going on here just because its a black man

wtf?

Mike.

modalcommand

It might be a case of the others not wanting to seem parochial or even racist gave him the nod.

Exactly. racist. He was given the job based on his race, although not entirely. What other independant councillor gets a mayorship after two years on the council?

28064212

modalcommand wrote:

He was given the job based on his race, although not entirely

He wasn't 'given' the job, he was elected. First to the town council, then as mayor by his peers

modalcommand wrote:

tell the country that he left Nigeria to escape religious persecution. Just stop lying to us ... Otherwise you would have just jumped borders in Africa somewhere

Right, because Niger and Cameroon are such bastions of religious tolerance, why wouldn't he go there?

modalcommand wrote:

...the fact of the matter is this man is somebody who abused are asylum system like many others.

That's the "fact of the matter" is it? You want to point out a law he's broken, or a loophole he exploited?

joecoote

stipey wrote:

Didn't the key parties (FF, FG and Lab I think) on the councils broker a deal whereby they rotate the position between them. I presume its some kind of block voting arrangement. I'm almost certain this is the case in Dublin anyway.

While if democratic it would definitely be a step in the right direction... it might be as case that it just happened to be his turn.

From what I understand there is a pact between FG, SF and the independents to rotate the mayorship on a yearly basis.

InFront

Some people could turn a Mustard forum thread into an immigration/ asylum thread. I'm not sure what basis anyone is going on to claim that his asylum claim was unfounded, presumably it's just because he isn't appearing permanently haunted or melancholy on the TV, or isn't 15lbs in weight with missing fingers, like one might expect a valid asylum seeker to appear.

Anyway, I wouldn't give this incident too much attention except as a peice of trivia that might be likely to come in useful at a table quiz or something. Not to downplay Portlaoise or this man's own political career, but on a long term basis the story is about as meaningless as his colour.

modalcommand

How come we didnt have guys like this claiming asylum in the 70s or 80s? Let me guess. Ireland was a poor ****hole with nothing to offer. Everybody knows that he is an economic migrant so stop pretending otherwise. Who travels 3000 miles to a small island on the atlantic to escape religious persecution. This man is a liar which is quite fititng given his political aspirations.

Jesus Wept

Adebari for president.

InFront

How come we didnt have guys like this claiming asylum in the 70s or 80s? Let me guess. Ireland was a poor ****hole with nothing to offer.

Poor countries can't always afford compassion.

If I were an asylum seeker, I'd apply for asylum in a country which, whether through its asylum laws or its wealth, was likely to grant me asylum. If I wanted to get the heck out of Nigeria (or wherever), I'd be trying to secure the most likely and stable refuge I could, wouldn't you? To do otherwise would be foolish.

28064212

modalcommand wrote:

Who travels 3000 miles to a small island on the atlantic to escape religious persecution.

Assume for a moment that he was being persecuted for his religious beliefs. Where should he have gone? Nigeria's neighbours are equally intolerant. Absolute minimum distance he would have had to travel was to Egypt. What reason do you have for not wanting him in this country as opposed to any other? You've called someone you've never met and appear to know nothing about a liar, so it doesn't say much for you

Victor

modalcommand wrote:

How come we didnt have guys like this claiming asylum in the 70s or 80s?

There were. They were simply put back on the plane to Cuba, the USSR, etc.

We broke international law.

A Dub in Glasgo

The-Rigger wrote:

Adebari for president.

modalcommand for the diplomatic corps

Victor Meldrew

Wicknight wrote:

Adebari seems quite involved in local integration programs, and I hope this is a sign that these are working and that he is gaining respect in Laois because of this.

An example for others possibly

Agree conpletely, but it would be nice if it were acknowledeged by the govt as something that should be resourced and repeated. We've enough case studies from other countries of what happens when you take a laisse faire attitude here and end up with an avoidable mess in 10 / 20 years. I'd like some govt leadership on this.

redspider

I think the way that developments like this are reported in fact propogate racism and differences, and our society still has a lot to learn.

For example, this item made the news and was widely reported because of the fact that Rotimi is racially 'classified' as black, whatever that means! Just reporting it in that manner reaffirms such racial divisions and classifications among those that use them.

Instead, in a fully non-racist society, we wouldnt be identifying Rotimi as 'black', we wouldnt even see or need to see such a division, but would instead report that he was from Nigeria, and an immgrant from 2000 and someone who has been active in local politics on the ground in Portlaoise and has done a good job too. I have no doubt that Rotimi has lots of other bits of information in relation to his culture, linguisitic, tribal affiliation, traditions, dress and music, which have nothing to do with such racial classification.

For example, it wasnt reported that "Bertie Ahern, a white man, has been voted in as Taoiseach today". So, why do it for Rotimi?

Also, this reporting I spotted is also as incorrect: "Ireland elected its first black mayor Thursday, the latest sign of how rapid immigration is changing this once all-white nation."

Since when were we in Ireland 'all-white'? It sounds like we purposely created some mad 'white supremacy' enclave in europe or something. Ireland always has had mixed cultures and peoples as a trading nation and any reasonable DNA study would show that. Due to our location movements of peoples were more resticted to neighbouring lands (Scandinavia, Central Europe, Spain) than it has been in recent times where global travel is more accessible and people can travel far and wide.


I am anti-discrimination of all types and therefore against the use of labels that can and are used by discriminants (if there is such a word).

By the way, which party is Rotimi affiliated with if any or is he an independent? I presume the latter.

Redspider

is_that_so

The fact that we are almost into the dog days of summer also helped propel the story to prominence.

Local elections because of their low turnout tend to throw up unusual trends and there can be a greater tolerance for candidates not affiliated to the main parties. For some reason we don't seem to treat it as we do a general election , despite the fact that zoning/rezoning and many other important decisions take place at council level.

For that reason IMO they are also opportunities for people, who want to get involved in politics, to give it a go. That from what I can see is what he has done and good luck to him. I can also understand why it was highlighted, in the same way that Sally Anne Flanagan in Tuam was highlighted - 22 when elected Mayor. As news goes it is unusual in that it has never happened before in Ireland.

As for the media coverage , well seeing as the likes of the Sindo stable of papers has us in perpetual moral and societal meltdown, what difference does it make what they think? They are trying to fill column inches in the absence of real news stories.

Peter Collins

Didn't all this happen in Blazing Saddles??!!!

williambonney

He should not even be here; he should have been deported immediately he landed.
To the first EU country he landed in. that was not Ireland as we have no direct links to Nigeria. (And we don’t want any)

Zombrex

williambonney wrote:

He should not even be here; he should have been deported immediately he landed.

He was, well at least his asylum application was rejected because there was insufficient evidence that he was personally being persecuted. What do you ya know, the system works!! This was the first country he landed in, as he came by the air as far as I know.

He was allowed stay here because his third child was born here while he was waiting for his application to be processed (this was 2000).

robinph

williambonney wrote:

(And we don’t want any)

Why is that then, got something against Nigeria have you?

modalcommand

Originally Posted by modalcommand
He should not even be here; he should have been deported immediately he landed.

He was, well at least his asylum application was rejected because there was insufficient evidence that he was personally being persecuted. What do you ya know, the system works!! This was the first country he landed in, as he came by the air as far as I know.

He was allowed stay here because his third child was born here while he was waiting for his application to be processed (this was 2000).

I didn't post that although I agree with it in theory.
I see the Lenihan is thinking about bringing in holding cells for all asylum seekers now just like they have in Australia which is great news.

28064212

williambonney wrote:

that was not Ireland as we have no direct links to Nigeria

The second part of that statement does not directly imply the first. There are countries which do have direct links to Ireland which are neither Nigeria or in the EU

Zombrex

modalcommand wrote:

I see the Lenihan is thinking about bringing in holding cells for all asylum seekers now just like they have in Australia which is great news.

Why, it costs an absolute fortune?

I find it funny that people complain about asylum seekers with the main reason that they take our resources (sounds a bit better than "I don't like black people") yet seem to not mind spending huge amounts of money to hold and detain them.

It is a rather pointless exercise that simply makes people feel better for 5 minutes that those damn asylum seekers are getting what they deserve, until they suddenly realize all the problems they thought were being caused by asylum seekers are still there. In which case it moves on to the next convenient scape goat (probably travelers again, they are due for some scape goating)

Personally I would rather my tax money is spend on fixing the health care system or improving public transport (or heaven forbid, integration projects) than pointless heavy hand tactics regarding Ireland's favorite scape goats just to make a few people in the anti-immigration lobby feel better about things because they don't actually understand how the system works in the first place.

Anyway this thread isn't even supposed to be about asylum application.

Morlar

modalcommand wrote:

Something with this just doesn't wash with me.

That this man can go on the news and tell the country that he left Nigeria to escape religious persecution. Just stop lying to us. You came here for a better life. Otherwise you would have just jumped borders in Africa somewhere. Full respect of getting into the council and doing something with your life but the fact of the matter is this man is somebody who abused are asylum system like many others.

Plust the amount of racist arselicking going on here just because its a black man .

That was what I was thinking too. This whole thing reminds me of that father ted episode where ted gets photographed standing beside a black man to assert how politically correct and non racist he is.

As to the comment about how some people can turn anything (even a mustard forum) into an immigration issue - the only reason this story even made the news is that it involves an asylum seeker who moved from nigeria to the republic of Ireland (according to the new mayor for reasons of persecution).

Zombrex

Morlar wrote:

As to the comment about how some people can turn anything (even a mustard forum) into an immigration issue - the only reason this story even made the news is that it involves an asylum seeker who moved from nigeria to the republic of Ireland (according to the new mayor for reasons of persecution).

The reason it made it to the news is that it is the first time a black person had been elected to the position of mayor in Ireland. How he got here is rather immaterial

Morlar

Wicknight wrote:

The reason it made it to the news is that it is the first time a black person had been elected to the position of mayor in Ireland. How he got here is rather immaterial

I disagree on 2 points there - first off this guy being black is not 100% of the newsworthiness of the story.

The main selling point is that he was (or is) a nigerian asylum seeker.

Though I will agree that without the refugee/asylum seeker angle it would have made the news - just not to the same extent so I think overall your wrong on that point.

The 2nd point - 'how he got here is rather immaterial' that amounts to saying that a politician or a public representative's past record is irrelevant. Its not irrelevant for white irish born politicians /public reps so why should his track record and biographical history be off limits for public or media discussion ? The fact that he claimed asylum from nigeria is material and relevant - I dont know the basis for why it would be deemed 'immaterial' or irrelevant.

Andy-Pandy

Fair balls to him, seems like a compitant fella. Who cares how or what circumstances got him to Ireland. He passed the imigration process, went to collage and is proving himself to be an asset to Portloise. From what i saw on RTE the locals seemed to like him.

Zombrex

Morlar wrote:

I disagree on 2 points there - first off this guy being black is not 100% of the newsworthiness of the story.

The headlines suggest otherwise

Irish Independent
"History is made as town elects first black mayor."

Guardian
"Ireland's first black mayor"

CBS News
"Ireland Elects Its First Black Mayor"

The significance is that he is black, not that he is foreign. If it was that he was foreign the headlines would read "Ireland Elects Its First Non-National Mayor"

Morlar wrote:

The 2nd point - 'how he got here is rather immaterial' that amounts to saying that a politician or a public representative's past record is irrelevant.

Yes quite Morlar, this is my attempt to undermine democracy .. :rolleyes:

If you look at what I actually said ...

The reason it made it to the news is that it is the first time a black person had been elected to the position of mayor in Ireland. How he got here is rather immaterial

In common English the context of sentence generally follows on from the previous sentence, unless separated by a paragraph.

How he got here is immaterial to the interest given to his case in the news, what was material was the fact that he is black.

The "first black" anything makes news, around the world, be it the first Irish mayor, first black baseball player, first black man on the moon etc etc.

People like firsts

Morlar

Wicknight wrote:

People like firsts

As in first asylum seeker ? This story is not ONLY of media interest due to skin colour, thats just having a one dimensional, simplistic take on it.

Zombrex

Morlar wrote:

As in first asylum seeker ? This story is not ONLY of media interest due to skin colour, thats just having a one dimensional, simplistic take on it.

And people "only" cared that Jackie Robinson became the first black baseball player in the modern Major League in 1947 because of his skin colour.

Except of course his skin colour was actually very significant.

You seem determined to make this about the fact that he was an asylum seeker. Why?

CPT. SURF

The "first black" anything makes news, around the world, be it the first Irish mayor, first black baseball player, first black man on the moon etc etc.

People like firsts

Yeah this seems pretty obvious. Anyone trying to wedge asylum issues into this story has some sort of agenda I would imagine and has lost their objectivity.

Morlar

Wicknight wrote:

You seem determined to make this about the fact that he was an asylum seeker. Why?

Actually its more a case of you pretending it has no relevance to the story.

CPT. SURF

Well I was interested in the story because he is black. I believe this would be true for the average person

wow sierra

This would still be a big story simply because he is black even if he was born in Ireland. Black people have lived in the US for centuries and it was big news up to recently if they got a position of power in most cities. It is constantly being discussed in relation to the Presidential election over there and the chances of Obama. Firsts in positions of power for any minority is big news and has nothing to do with Asylum seekers. A big issue was also made of the first wheel chair using TD for example.

williambonney

Wicknight wrote:

He was, well at least his asylum application was rejected because there was insufficient evidence that he was personally being persecuted. What do you ya know, the system works!! This was the first country he landed in, as he came by the air as far as I know.

He was allowed stay here because his third child was born here while he was waiting for his application to be processed (this was 2000).

How could this be the first country he landed in? there are no direct links between here and Nigeria.

williambonney

28064212 wrote:

The second part of that statement does not directly imply the first. There are countries which do have direct links to Ireland which are neither Nigeria or in the EU

what on earth are you talking about? THERE ARE NO DIRECT AIR LINKS, BETWEEN THIS COUNTRY AND NIGERIA. People from Africa who want to come to Ireland have to go to some other EU country first. That country should not allow them to travel to Ireland, unless they are properly documented.

williambonney

robinph wrote:

Why is that then, got something against Nigeria have you?

Yes

rkeane

Yes Ireland wasn't the first place he landed in, he should have been kicked out years ago. I see that woman Rosanna Flynn is using this first to get a better deal for asylum seekers....crazy really. The vast majority of Irish people don't place chancers (90% +) at the top of their agenda's....I certainly don't. I hope Brian Lenihan maintains the tough approach of Michael Mc Dowell.

heyjude

rkeane wrote:

I hope Brian Lenihan maintains the tough approach of Michael Mc Dowell.

McDowell's tough approach was all talk. Most asylum seekers are found to be economic migrants, yet only a very small proportion of these failed asylum seekers are deported.

clonycavanman

Election and afterparty attended by representatives from the Nigerian embassy!- a remarkably forgiving attitude by the possessor of the world's 10th largest oil reserves- considering the calumnies the Mayor has reiterated about his homeland for the last 7 years.

mike65

The vast majority of Irish people don't place chancers

Shurley Shome Mishtake?

Mike.

28064212

williambonney wrote:

THERE ARE NO DIRECT AIR LINKS, BETWEEN THIS COUNTRY AND NIGERIA. People from Africa who want to come to Ireland have to go to some other EU country first

Again, the first part of this statement does not necessarily imply the second. You seem to imagine the world consists of Nigeria and the EU, and for it to be impossible to get to Ireland without going through the EU

williambonney wrote:

robinph wrote:

Why is that then, got something against Nigeria have you?

Yes

What is it?

rkeane wrote:

The vast majority of Irish people don't place chancers (90% +) at the top of their agenda's

Had to laugh at that, our country has been led by the biggest chancer of them all for the past decade, there is nothing our country loves more than a chancer

is_that_so

clonycavanman wrote:

Election and afterparty attended by representatives from the Nigerian embassy!- a remarkably forgiving attitude by the possessor of the world's 10th largest oil reserves- considering the calumnies the Mayor has reiterated about his homeland for the last 7 years.

It's called protocol and he is a public dignitary.

billy the squid

As a rule I would be against the choice of mayor being left to councillors, and would prefer to see the people elect their mayor instead.

That being said, people of all races living here should be getting involved in local and national politics, as they have to live here too, they should be allowed to take part in how the country or local area is run.