HD/Blu-Ray... Is blu-ray going to win?

projectmayhem

monkeyfudge wrote:

Do we really need to see 1080 pixels worth of Ron Jeremy's ass?

anyone who says "yes" should start a thread in PI immediately

flogen

There's no doubt that BluRay has the upper hand but its reliance on the PS3 means its dominance should be taken with a pinch of salt.

The fact is that the 300,000 HD-DVD player owners have the devices by choice - they went out specifically to get one. 1.5 million of the BluRay player owners really just have one by default.

Of course, if someone bought a PS3 for games and later decides to see what this whole HD movie experience is all about, there's little probability of them not getting a BluRay disc - the alternative is to buy a whole new machine and the film, which would require some abysmal BluRay catalogue choice to occour.

That said, unit sales are what should be looked at - not hardware because that's being completely skewed by the PS3 (Many PS3 owners might not pay any heed to movie formats, and may not make a move until everythings decided anyway). BluRay (I think) is winning there too, but it's a close afair.

(and on the point about PCs, the likes of Dell and Apple are in the BluRay corner - but only premium machines will bother with those drives for the time being and they won't have an effect on the format's success for a long time. Even early adoptors for PC will probably be investing in a storage medium rather than a home entertainment device).

I will say that, on browsing HMV's "next gen" offerings I spotted a BluRay movie (MI3 I think) for over €50. That was the highest price there, in fairness, but it's a sickening amount to pay for a film. The highest price HD-DVD was around the €30.

I'm sitting on the fence, personally, but if I were to chose I'd have a hard time going for BluRay over HD-DVD on economics alone - the price of players just as imbalanced (ignoring PS3 and the 360 add-on). But frankly even if a winner was decided tomorrow I wouldn't be rushing out to invest - I'm happy to wait until the prices reach more digestable levels.

copacetic

flogen wrote:

The fact is that the 300,000 HD-DVD player owners have the devices by choice - they went out specifically to get one. 1.5 million of the BluRay player owners really just have one by default.

well that may not be entirely true, people who wanted a blue ray player by choice would likely buy a PS3 rather than a stand alone as it is better value and has the gaming option. Who is to say that 300,000 ps3 buyers didn't but it mainly for the blue ray capability?

Dodge

But what if people buy the PS£ specifically to get the cheap(er) Blu Ray player.

To dismiss the amount of PS3 units sold is folly

philstar

johnny_ultimate wrote:

Seems like the battle came a bit too early - DVD is still quite young, compared to the amount of time VHS spent in the limelight.

yes thats a good point, we're just getting used to dvd and now the TV industry are pushing this HD stuff on us.

well there's no way i'm forking out hundreds on HD TV as well as a HD player

flogen

copacetic wrote:

well that may not be entirely true, people who wanted a blue ray player by choice would likely buy a PS3 rather than a stand alone as it is better value and has the gaming option. Who is to say that 300,000 ps3 buyers didn't but it mainly for the blue ray capability?

That's a fair point - I should word what I said differently to say "1.5 million of the BluRay player owners may just have one by default, not overt intention."

It's true that if you're going for a BluRay player you'd be mad to rule out a PS3 as it's cheaper than most with additional functionality.

@Dodge - I'm not dismissing PS3 ownership, I'm just saying hardware sales can't be used to show anything given the way the market has gone - software take up will be the critical factor.

Jello

The Blu-ray selection is indeed ****e.
Since the release of the PS3 though, Blu-ray sales have overtook HD DVD in Europe, following the same trend as North America.

I'm pretty neutral in this format war, though I wish one or the other would hurry up and win!

Dont be at yourself

That's a fair point - I should word what I said differently to say "1.5 million of the BluRay player owners may just have one by default, not overt intention."

You'd have to look at the attach ratio for the PS3 and games/movies, but I know when they released the PS2 (which was the first affordable DVD player), there were more hardware than software sales, suggesting many people bought it exclusively as a DVD player!

The PS3 is by no means a failure. I hate it when people say that. Its only been out for a few months. I is way too early to write it off.
The blu ray selection at the moment is crap but its getting better. I got Rescue Me series 3 on blu ray in the post today-fantastic.
Porn will make an appearance on blu ray starting later this summer for anone who cares.
There will probably be a price cut on the PS3 later this year and sony are cutting the prices of their standalone players to attract more buyers. I dont mean to sound like such a fanboy here-I'm not but it looks to me like blu ray is the winner in this format war unless the HD DVD crowd pull a miracle out of their collective ass.

constitutionus

TBH as a person whos not pushed either way besides the PS3 thing ive seen nothing about blu ray at all. all im seeing in the shops is HD ready TVs so public conscious wise i reckon the HDs got an edge in just that people know about it. the only ones that have a clue about blu ray own PS3s and they dont seem to be shifting to my eyes. certainly not to any degree like their PS2 cousins

fact is as a console its just too damn expensive for not a hell of alot better graphics and far more expensive games . i mean 70 quid FFS i can get a prostitute for that from what i hear off you guys its a good deal for the blu ray player but thats not what i'd buy the ****ing thing for so if i could get the thing cheaper id want the fecking thing out and i reckon im not alone in that.

plus as someone else has posted im just getting used to DVD now having bought alot of old films from the eighties just this week. why in christs name would i want to spend a fortune replacing them again.

this whole HD/Blu ray thing smells like a ripp off to me and i'll be honest it looks uncomfortably sharp. somethings are meant to look a little off (ron jeramys ass for instance )

but if i had to choose i'd give HD the edge because as mentioned people want it as opposed to getting it by happenstance.

constitutionus

constitutionus wrote:

TBH as a person whos not pushed either way besides the PS3 thing ive seen nothing about blu ray at all. all im seeing in the shops is HD ready TVs so public conscious wise i reckon the HDs got an edge in just that people know about it. the only ones that have a clue about blu ray own PS3s and they dont seem to be shifting to my eyes. certainly not to any degree like their PS2 cousins

fact is as a console its just too damn expensive for not a hell of alot better graphics and far more expensive games . i mean 70 quid FFS i can get a prostitute for that from what i hear off you guys its a good deal for the blu ray player but thats not what i'd buy the ****ing thing for so if i could get the thing cheaper id want the fecking thing out and i reckon im not alone in that.

plus as someone else has posted im just getting used to DVD now having bought alot of old films from the eighties just this week. why in christs name would i want to spend a fortune replacing them again.

this whole HD/Blu ray thing smells like a ripp off to me and i'll be honest it looks uncomfortably sharp. somethings are meant to look a little off (ron jeramys ass for instance )

but if i had to choose i'd give HD the edge because as mentioned people want it as opposed to getting it by happenstance.

You dont have to buy your DVD's again, blu ray and HD DVD are backwards compatible and will upgrade your DVD picture quality. Its definately not a rip off. The people who have blu ray by "happenstance" are buying more blu ray discs than HD DVD's so I think that arguement is nonsense. 70% of HD rentals in the US are blu ray, that tells me that people want blu ray.

CyberGhost

Deleted User wrote:

You dont have to buy your DVD's again, blu ray and HD DVD are backwards compatible and will upgrade your DVD picture quality. Its definately not a rip off. The people who have blu ray by "happenstance" are buying more blu ray discs than HD DVD's so I think that arguement is nonsense. 70% of HD rentals in the US are blu ray, that tells me that people want blu ray.

Will that upscale look the same as the re-released version of the same movie?


btw, from a storage point of view(and that's the only thing I care about tbh) I really hope Blu Ray wins.

25gigs to back up my stuff, sweet!

The quality of the upscale will vary from dvd to dvd. It wont be as good as a recently mastered blu ray or hd dvd but there is a noticeable improvement in picture quality. Most blu rays are on 50 gb discs, with 100gb discs coming soon. That is a LOT of storage.

flogen

constitutionus wrote:

TBH as a person whos not pushed either way besides the PS3 thing ive seen nothing about blu ray at all. all im seeing in the shops is HD ready TVs so public conscious wise i reckon the HDs got an edge in just that people know about it. the only ones that have a clue about blu ray own PS3s and they dont seem to be shifting to my eyes. certainly not to any degree like their PS2 cousins

There was the argument at the start that HD-DVD would have the upper hand because its name contained DVD, which would make people assume it was the natural progression from what they had, and HD, which people would connect with their new, fancy TVs.

Of course, that ignores the fact that early adopters (who are critical in format wars) wouldn't be so ignorant.

As for storage, yeah, 100gb is a lot but disc-based media is such a pain for file storage IMO. When you consider the fact that iPods are as big as 80gb now, and portable flash storage is getting bigger and cheaper by the day, I think they're a much more sensible route for portable storage and backing up.

monkeyfudge

HD-DVD is actually a bit of a tongue twister to try and say out loud though.

I remember I had an awful time trying to track down the HD-DVD drive for the Xbox 360 when it first came out... not only is it hard to say, but I was also met with blank looks of shop assistants who had never heard of it.

User45701

Deleted User wrote:

You dont have to buy your DVD's again, blu ray and HD DVD are backwards compatible and will upgrade your DVD picture quality. Its definately not a rip off. The people who have blu ray by "happenstance" are buying more blu ray discs than HD DVD's so I think that arguement is nonsense. 70% of HD rentals in the US are blu ray, that tells me that people want blu ray.

That tells me that anyone who bought a ps3 decided to see what all the fuss was about and rented blu ray to see the quality, most would rent 2, one action movie and something with allot of backround detail like lost or something , BTW LOST will be HD and not Blu-Ray or so i head.

I read over what you all said and i had a chat with a very nice person from x-tra vision H/O.

Aparently even tho extra vision is owned by blockbuster he says that blockbusters decision to only rent blu-ray has not effected them yet.

Anyway, ive decided to back HD. I dont like the blu-ray marketing strategy and i feel that they are more likley to abuse there position and charge a unsatasfactory large amount should they be victories.

User45701

User45701 wrote:

Anyway, ive decided to back HD. I dont like the blu-ray marketing strategy and i feel that they are more likley to abuse there position and charge a unsatasfactory large amount should they be victories.

Standalone blu ray players are very expensive, but I find that blu ray's are cheaper than hd dvd.

"That tells me that anyone who bought a ps3 decided to see what all the fuss was about and rented blu ray to see the quality, most would rent 2, one action movie and something with allot of backround detail like lost or something , BTW LOST will be HD and not Blu-Ray or so i head."

Still more people buying/renting blu ray. Lost on hd dvd isn't going to change that. I doubt that blockbuster took the decision to support blu ray lightly.

I_was_banned

1080i vs 1080p
1 major studio supporting it v the other 7 supporting blu ray

Only Microsoft is backing it, though has mentioned it can go blu ray vs a large corporation that most people recognise

crap sounding name vs easy word


You can pick up an internal Blu ray drive for pc for £130 sterling. The RW are still expensive at £300 though.

I think its tipping in Blu rays favor. The 1080p is the deciding factor for me:cool:

There are still a good few companies supporting the hd dvd like Toshiba and Intel. But that doesn't matter because they dont release anything on the format. Apple are supporting blu ray, never mind that all movie studio bar one are in the blu ray camp. The price of blu ray players will come down steadily as time goes on. More good releases will keep blu ray on top. Microsoft will probably release a blu ray add on for the xbox and universal will start to release on blu ray- fingers crossed.

MooseJam

The difference in quality is pretty minimal, not even the jump from vhs to dvd I reckon, to spend 2,000 on a new TV and blu/hd player is crazy unless you're mega rich, I'll wait till there is a winner and a stand - alone player costs less than 100 euro, that could be a while

A very long while!

savemejebus

MooseJam wrote:

The difference in quality is pretty minimal, not even the jump from vhs to dvd I reckon

I have to disagree with you there. After going from a 28" widescreen crt to a 1080p 37" with Blu Ray disc player I can testify that the difference is like night and day. Much sharper picture, better and more colours, even the menu systems are improved

Fad

according to wikipedia, pr0n (or ''adult entertainment) was available on betamax (and we all know wikipedia is never wrong)

I don't think porn will be a deciding factor in this format war. The internet has changed things.

humanji

savemejebus wrote:

I have to disagree with you there. After going from a 28" widescreen crt to a 1080p 37" with Blu Ray disc player I can testify that the difference is like night and day. Much sharper picture, better and more colours, even the menu systems are improved

For myself, the difference isn't much, but it is noticeable. It's hardly worth the price of the new disks and whatever player you get.

It's probably just me, but I've got a feeling that both will lose out to some third format that comes along in a year or two. For what they were hyped to be, they're both a real let down.

humanji

humanji wrote:

For myself, the difference isn't much, but it is noticeable. It's hardly worth the price of the new disks and whatever player you get.

The price of HD movies isn't that much. Pretty much the same as DVD's with much much better quality.

flogen

Deleted User wrote:

Standalone blu ray players are very expensive, but I find that blu ray's are cheaper than hd dvd.

I've not been looking (because I don't have either player) but I spotted some HDDVD and BluRay discs in HMV and while you couldn't compare like with like in most cases there was a huge price difference - the most expensive BluRay disc (Mission Impossible 3) was around €20 more expensive than the dearest HDDVD and I'm not even sure if the most expensive HDDVD (which I think was Superman Returns) was much dearer than the cheapest BluRay disc.

Lord Nikon

Whatever Joe public gets shoved in his face will be the deciding factor. You want to rent a DVD in xtra vision, there will be a Blu-Ray sitting beside it, give it time and that will be the case, Blockbuster owns the rental business, and their pushing Blu-Ray.

Also, I think Sony are the dogs at the moment at most digital equipment. You walk into one of their stores and there is huge HD screens all over the place, with Blu-Ray on the picture. This is what people see, and want. You can't walk into any other store and have HD-DVD in your face as much.

HD DVD doesnt seem to be as available as Blu Ray. I was in the virgin megastore yesterday, and while their selection of both formats is pretty small there were a lot more blu rays on sale.

Snake Plisken

Well based on Xtravision stocking BD's here and Blockbuster elsewhere, it looks like the BD camp have a major win.
I'm hoping that both formats can co-exist, Samsung are going to unvail a new dual player that will have all the functionality of both formats, so thats the way I'm hoping it will turn out. Toshiba are also reducing the prices on the standalone players.

Also as regards not being able to tell the difference, it depends on the size of your screen, you really need a 37" plus to see the benifits of HD on picture quality it shows loads more detail, its also down to if the studios did a decent transfer of the material.

Also 1080P is supported by HD-DVD, the latest Toshiba players can output it over hdmi.

As for buying titles you already own on DVD, yes I do it depends on the Movie, I've re-bought titles I love including The Matrix, The Thing, Hellboy, The Big Lebowski for example, with 300 coming out at the end of the month I've gone with the HD-DVD version as it has all of the interactive material available which is not on the BR version.

Snake