True extent of Polish immigration

TheFlaps

Have you ever gotten the feeling that there are more Polish people in Ireland than the official figures? Not discussing the positive/negatives of this as such just the real amount.

I was just looking at the alexa figures for web traffic in Ireland and I was quite surprised to see a few polish sites in the top 30 for Ireland. The most popular polish site is onet.pl.
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?q=&url=onet.pl/

Whats quite surprising is that 1.1% of the users of the site are in Ireland and another 1.1% are in the UK, a much larger country.
Its just surprising that more people in Ireland use that site than use rte.ie and that from these rough figures of web useage there are the same amount of Polish people in the UK as there are in Ireland.

The situation for Lithuaniam immigrants is very similar.
This is the top site in Lithuania.
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?q=&url=one.lt
You can see that Ireland makes up the second largest amount of users for this site at .6% whilst the UK is only .2%. Again far more lithuanians in Ireland than the UK.

ANd for Latvia,
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?q=&url=http://www.one.lv/

biko

So how many is that in actual people then?

TheFlaps

I'm not sure how you would extrapolate to people. Maybe somebody else would know? I just think its strange that such a small country at the opposite end of europe is the prime choice for many eastern europeans.

Owen

The perception in Poland is that Irish people are more welcoming than our Anglo-neighbours.

Gizzle

I work with a Polish guy, and he says that most of his friends from back home are actually moving to places like Holland because there are simply too many Polish in Ireland.

DubDani

Quite a lot of Polish are already leaving again. Polish are very fond of their homecountry and families. They want to be as close to home as possible.

Due to the big amount of polish people who went to Ireland there is a shortage of builders in Poland. Now polish companies are trying to get them back by offereing more money then they did before.

Also recently denmark and holland opened their market to polish people, and they tend to go there now, as it is closer to home.

Dublin1983

i give it 10 years max and there will be more refugees in Ireland than Irish people. Worrying!!:eek:

muppetkiller

Dublin1983 wrote:

i give it 10 years max and there will be more refugees in Ireland than Irish people. Worrying!!:eek:

Polish are not refugees :rolleyes:

Dublin1983

Not Irish= Foreign National/Refugee/Immigrants- im just saying there numbers are getting really strong and multiplying really fast--

Owen

There's a world of difference between EU visitors (Polish, French, German), and refugees. Unfortunately Paddy can't see that, and we stereotype everyone.

Dublin1983

ned78 wrote:

There's a world of difference between EU visitors (Polish, French, German), and refugees. Unfortunately Paddy can't see that, and we stereotype everyone.

between EU visitors (Polish
that are overstaying there welcome- n:D

ballooba

Dublin1983 wrote:

Not Irish= Foreign National/Refugee/Immigrants- im just saying there numbers are getting really strong and multiplying really fast--

Hopefully our immigrants will be more educated than you. Doesn't look like it will be hard. Maybe you should emmigrate.

digitally-yours

Here is another interesting one.I personally dont have a problem with polish people



Jobs.ie
Ireland72.2%
Poland5.7%
United Kingdom2.4%
Spain2.1%
Slovakia1.8%

Link

muppetkiller

Dublin1983 wrote:

between EU visitors (Polish
that are overstaying there welcome- n:D

What are you talking about ?

TheFlaps

Theres a difference between EU immigrants and refugees in legal status but at the end of hte day they are all just economic migrants and thats obviously what he meant. '


My problem is with the EU here and the fact that we seem to be taking a masssively disproportional amount of immigrants. I don't think anybody can argue that adding 20% to your national population in 5 years through immigration is a good thing and thats where we are heading.

5starpool

Dublin1983 wrote:

Not Irish= Foreign National/Refugee/Immigrants- im just saying there numbers are getting really strong and multiplying really fast--

Well if they are multiplying fast then their children are Irish, no? Especially if they are still here in 10 years.

TheFlaps

5starpool wrote:

Well if they are multiplying fast then their children are Irish, no? Especially if they are still here in 10 years.

Depends how well they want to integrate and not if they are teaching them through Polish in schools.

Dublin1983

Quimby: Are those morons getting dumber or just louder?

Assistant: [Takes a moment to check his clipboard] Dumber, sir.

Quimby: They want the bear patrol but they won't pay taxes for it. This is a situation that calls for real leadership. [Opens the door to his office to confront the angry mob.]

People, your taxes are high because of illegal immigrants!

Moe Szyslak: Immigants! I knew it was them! Even when it was the bears, I knew it was them.

digitally-yours

Accoring to pps figures

Poland 207,560
Lithuania 49,594

and other can be seen in the following link
I am sure these are still underestimated figures

Yes thats true that the population is growing at a very fast pace but you need that for housing sector and jobs creation.
If they all go back housing market will simply crash !

More statistics here

Dublin1983

If they all go back housing market will simply crash !

Thats is the biggest load of bull **** ever, the housing section wont crash. get real. those refugees cant afford houses, they live in apartments that has 2 bedrooms with 15 peolple living in it.

whats wrong with the house prices going down any way ya tosser, dont u think were paying to much.....

Owen

TheFlaps wrote:

Depends how well they want to integrate and not if they are teaching them through Polish in schools.

I wouldn't worry. The majority of Poles are temporary immigrants, they have no intention of living here with our weather and economy. They're here for 2 or three years to earn enough money to buy a house back home.

Owen

TheFlaps wrote:

My problem is with the EU here and the fact that we seem to be taking a masssively disproportional amount of immigrants. I don't think anybody can argue that adding 20% to your national population in 5 years through immigration is a good thing and thats where we are heading.

I can. They're doing the jobs we won't do. They're bolstering the construction trades, and the service trades.

TheFlaps

Theres more to it than a simple short term economic benefit.

digitally-yours

Dublin1983 wrote:

If they all go back housing market will simply crash !

Thats is the biggest load of bull **** ever, the housing section wont crash. get real. those refugees cant afford houses, they live in apartments that has 2 bedrooms with 15 peolple living in it.

whats wrong with the house prices going down any way ya tosser, dont u think were paying to much.....

Tell me your education level then i will think about arguing with you :rolleyes:
Do you know how economy works ?

brianthebard

OP are you suggesting that some Polish citizens are arriving here illegally? I find that hard to believe considering the almost total lack of restrictions put on migrants within the EU to Ireland. Why would someone risk coming here illegally when all they need to work here is a passport?

beldub

my target is to pay for house I bougth recently in PL, get as much experience as it's possible here and return to home, things are getting better there so hopefully all will go well.
As far as I can say more then half Polish people I know want to go back. The rest is trying to settle down here, buy house and enjoy the life here.
I know plenty of people who have PPS but are actually in Poland. Most of them are students who worked here during the summer time only so pps figures might be far from reality

0ubliette

ned78 wrote:

I can. They're doing the jobs we won't do. They're bolstering the construction trades, and the service trades.

This is what gets me. So what, before the poles, latvians, chinese etc came here youre saying that NO Irish would work a bad job? Noone worked cleaning toilets? Noone worked in a spar? McDonalds? No Irish people ever did that, right? Jeez, were so lucky to have immigrants to do those jobs for us then! But leaves me confused as to who it was who served me in McDonalds when i was a kid..mustve been some kind of McCyborg or something, cause it wasnt an irish person, as they wont work minimum wage jobs, apparrently.
And bolstering our construction industry? My Boss's father is out of work for the first time in his life and moving to england to work for construction work, so thats a job lost to an Irish person. Hardly bolstering things is it?

Owen

TheFlaps wrote:

Theres more to it than a simple short term economic benefit.

Yes indeed there is. Because our country is experiencing an economic boom, we're greedy little people, and won't work the little jobs, the McDonalds, the KFCs, the car washes, the hotel jobs. So, we import people who will do the work, to a higher standard than an Irish person will do, and who will benefit both the economic growth of the country, and the company they represent.

They pay taxes while here, which benefit our Country, and contrary to popular belief, buy products here, and pay for services themselves too. It's a win win situation, and arguing the negligible negatives is best left to the narrow-minded who believe Ireland should be left for the Irish.

Integration is going to happen no matter how much we argue on boards, it's how you deal with it that's important. You can whine like a teenager, looking for all the problems you want, or you can sit back and actually examine the benefits of the situation that has developed.

Dublin1983

Education level- Don’t be so stuck up-digitally-yours- Thats got nothing to do with this Topic. I have a high level of education- im not going justify that to you... Im Just saying that the longer there here the more they will multiple., they will become more and more used to Irish cultre & living and wont bother going back to there own countries...

jdivision

We need immigrants to boost the economy. We already have full employment in economic terms.

Owen

0ubliette wrote:

This is what gets me. So what, before the poles, latvians, chinese etc came here youre saying that NO Irish would work a bad job?

Irish people worked the banal jobs in the 80's, and early 90's. When the economy grew, they found the little jobs beneath them,

0ubliette wrote:

But leaves me confused as to who it was who served me in McDonalds when i was a kid..mustve been some kind of McCyborg or something

When you were a kid (I'll assume for safety's sake you're 18) 10 years ago, our economy wasn't in the condition that it's in currently, and Students would work in those jobs, as well as the less well educated. A huge problem with the Irish people who were willing to work in those jobs at the time was the attitude of 'sure it's only McDonalds', etc., and they wouldn't do the work to the best of their ability. Watch an Eastern European clean a car at a service station, and then watch an Irish person do it in another forecourt. There's a world of difference, they take pride in their work, no matter if it is cleaning toilets.

0ubliette wrote:

And bolstering our construction industry? My Boss's father is out of work for the first time in his life and moving to england to work for construction work, so thats a job lost to an Irish person. Hardly bolstering things is it?

1 case. The company I work for regularly deal with the large players in this country in the construction industry. Look at any construction site, and it's not just Polish. The Kinsale road flyover in Cork was built months ahead of schedule by Turks, because the Irish wouldn't work 24 hours. The immigrants (From all countries, not just Eastern Europe, not just Poland) are the reason we have so much development right now. And being perfectly blunt, if your Father can't get a job in construction at the moment in Ireland, he must have higher than normal salary expectations, as there is no shortage of work.

Owen

Dublin1983 wrote:

I have a high level of education

Not to make it personal as that's against the Charter, but claiming you have a high level of education as a means to back up your points, then littering your posts with spelling and grammar mistakes, it doesn't really make your argument more compelling.

TheFlaps

brianthebard wrote:

OP are you suggesting that some Polish citizens are arriving here illegally? I find that hard to believe considering the almost total lack of restrictions put on migrants within the EU to Ireland. Why would someone risk coming here illegally when all they need to work here is a passport?

Never suggested that. Its not possibe for a Polish person to be here illegally unless they've skipped bail back home or something like that.

Can we not let this thread like every second one on boards become an argument about grammar and spelling please. Spelling ability is completely unrelated to making an argument so don't bring it up.

When you were a kid (I'll assume for safety's sake you're 18) 10 years ago, our economy wasn't in the condition that it's in currently, and Students would work in those jobs, as well as the less well educated. A huge problem with the Irish people who were willing to work in those jobs at the time was the attitude of 'sure it's only McDonalds', etc., and they wouldn't do the work to the best of their ability. Watch an Eastern European clean a car at a service station, and then watch an Irish person do it in another forecourt. There's a world of difference, they take pride in their work, no matter if it is cleaning toilets.

Thats quite the racist statement. HOw can you say black people are lazy and take no pride in their work?

Dublin1983

ned78 wrote:

Not to make it personal as that's against the Charter, but claiming you have a high level of education as a means to back up your points, then littering your posts with spelling and grammar mistakes, it doesn't really make your argument more compelling.

Ned if u read the post more carefuly you will see that DIGITALLY YOURS said
Tell me your education level then i will think about arguing with you
Do you know how economy works ?

thats what the eduction was reference to.

5starpool

Dublin1983 wrote:

Education level- Don’t be so stuck up-digitally-yours- Thats got nothing to do with this Topic. I have a high level of education- im not going justify that to you... Im Just saying that the longer there here the more they will multiple., they will become more and more used to Irish cultre & living and wont bother going back to there own countries...

It doesn't matter what your level of education, if you continue to count Polish people as refugees, and say you are not in favour od large amounts of immigrants who may *shock, horror*, integrate, then it is hard to take your posts seriously.

Owen

Dublin1983 wrote:

Ned if u read the post more carefuly you will see that DIGITALLY YOURS said Tell me your education level then i will think about arguing with you Do you know how economy works ? thats what the eduction was reference to.

I'm well aware of that. You responded by claiming that you're very well educated indeed, thus 'proving' your facts must have basis. I was pointing out that your lack of basic spelling and grammatical rules doesn't indicate a high level of education.

If you're going to make arguments on a thread like this, and want us to accept them as facts, then provide sources.

Owen

TheFlaps wrote:

Thats quite the racist statement. HOw can you say black people are lazy and take no pride in their work?

Where is the reference to 'black people'?

TheFlaps

Wheres the reference or source of your racist assertions Ned?

TheFlaps

Watch an Eastern European clean a car at a service station, and then watch a black person do it in another forecourt. There's a world of difference, they take pride in their work, no matter if it is cleaning toilets.

There you go.

digitally-yours

Dublin1983


Read here More

Right of permanent residence

Union citizens acquire the right of permanent residence in the host Member State after a five-year period of uninterrupted legal residence, provided that an expulsion decision has not been enforced against them. This right of permanent residence is no longer subject to any conditions. The same rule applies to family members who are not nationals of a Member State and who have lived with a Union citizen for five years. The right of permanent residence is lost only in the event of more than two successive years' absence from the host Member State.

Union citizens who so request receive a document certifying their right to permanent residence. The Member States issue to third country family members permanent residence permits which are valid indefinitely and renewable automatically every ten years no later than six months after the application is made. Citizens can use any form of evidence generally accepted in the host Member State to prove that they have been continuously resident.

Link here for those who want to read more

Owen

TheFlaps wrote:

There you go.

That quote isn't from me, my quote says 'Irish'. You've typed in it yourself in a childish attempt to win a debate you're ill equipped to take part in. Post reported as a result of you being a troll, and trying to brand another poster as a racist. I hope you're banned.

TheFlaps

Post reported for you for being racist. I'm Irish and I take offense to your racist generalisations of a whole nation.

Owen

TheFlaps wrote:

Post reported for you for being racist. I'm Irish and I take offense to your racist generalisations of a whole nation.

How can I be racist against Irish people when I'm Irish myself? You're really loosing this argument, and making a poor impression on boards as a new user.

TheFlaps

It doesn't matter where you are from racism is still racism. And you were being racist about Polish people by judging them all to be exellent workers who have pride in menial jobs. How can you judge the opinions of a country of 38 million people? You can't. Racist.

digitally-yours

ned78 Just expressed his opinion and anyone is entitled to disagree with him.I dont think there is any racisim in it.Also Ned has a polish GF or Wife so he knows more i have to say

Owen

TheFlaps wrote:

It doesn't matter where you are from racism is still racism.

It's not racism when it's a fact. Irish people don't particularly like menial jobs, are embarrassed about working in Fast Food restaurants, and generally work to a poorer standard than other nationalities when working in the lower end of the employment chain.

TheFlaps wrote:

And you were being racist about Polish people by judging them all to be exellent workers who have pride in menial jobs.

To be a racist, you must have a negative opinion about the demographic you're insulting. To praise a nation, and it's citzens is not displaying any form of racism at all, it's quite the opposite.

And before you try to make another post, it would be beneficial to your side of the debate if you'd first answer why you felt the need to alter my post and then pass your lie off as the truth?

Unpossible

TheFlaps wrote:

Thats quite the racist statement. HOw can you say black people are lazy and take no pride in their work?

I thought he was talking about irish people not africans

It doesn't matter where you are from racism is still racism. And you were being racist about Polish people by judging them all to be exellent workers who have pride in menial jobs. How can you judge the opinions of a country of 38 million people? You can't. Racist.

easy there, take a deep breath, we don't want this to turn into a flame war

TheFlaps

ned78 wrote:

It's not racism when it's a fact. Irish people don't particularly like menial jobs, are embarrassed about working in Fast Food restaurants, and generally work to a poorer standard than other nationalities.



To be a racist, you must have a negative opinion about the demographic you're insulting. To praise a nation, and it's citzens is not displaying any form of racism at all, it's quite the opposite.

And before you try to make another post, it would be beneficial to your side of the debate if you'd first answer why you felt the need to alter my post and then pass your lie off as the truth?

Completely wrong. You really are clueless despite all your patronising remarks.
Its not a fact its a racist opinion and you know it.
And racism can work in both directions. Its all about prejudging a person based on race which is exactly what you have bene doing. I'm sick of people like you who are so quick to call Irish people racists whilst they are in fact jsut as racist themselves.

Dublin1983

flaps im with u brother
Say it Once Say It Loud Im 100% Irish & Proud.

Owen

TheFlaps wrote:

And racism can work in both directions.

No it can't. Racism is a negative slur on a social demographic. Praising a nation is not racism.

And you still haven't answered my question, why did you edit my post, lie about it, and then try to pass it off as the truth?

TheFlaps

Racism is a negative slur on a social demographic

Thats your ignorant definition of racism but its not the consensus defnition.

Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

Negative or positive its still racist. So you are racist on both counts for your appraisal of Irish and Polish workers. Have I surprised you?

I edited your text as I like to show Irish people their racist beliefs by exchanging races in their text. If I had written what you had on another thread and replaced Irish with black you can be sure that you and many others would be screaming at me 'racist scum'. But somehow its meant to be ok the other way around?