Barred from a pub unjustly

Jigsaw

I am so frustrated. I was in a bar in Belfast not Sunday just past but the Sunday before. The bar closed at midnight but I had went up to the bar and was served a pint a few minutes before midnight. The bar was still open and there was no problem getting served. Anyway, at midnight on the dot the music was turned off and the bar lights turned on. Within seconds the bouncers were in everyone's face roaring "Right folks make your way to the door please! Finish up or your drink will be taken off you" etc. I was not happy about this so in a very reasonable and measured way, I asked the bouncer why, when the bar had served me a pint literally 4 minutes earlier, were they threatening to take my drink off me and kick me out. At this point, three bouncers descended upon and started getting super-aggressive. Thankfully I kept my cool and simply asked them if they thought what they were doing was fair.

Anyway, I eventually downed my pint and as I was leaving one of the bouncers said, "Right pal, you're f**king barred". I thought he just said it in temper but I went back to the same bar on Saturday night just there where some mates were. The same bouncer happened to be on the door. He stood in front of me and said, "I thought you were told you were barred". I simply said that I thought it was a heat of the moment thing. He said I was barred and said "You were an a**ehole, you can come in if you apologise to me, otherwise take a walk". As a matter of principle I refused to apologise and walked away. Now I don't care too much about the bar, but it is the principle of some bouncer being a bloody tyrant and a bully. I want to put it right.

Has anyone else been in a similar position and how did you deal with it? I just hate people throwing their weight around like that. :mad:

AlmightyCushion

Ask to see the manager and explain the situation to him. It's better if you are there quite a bit and he recognises you if only to see.

stipey

That's UK licensing laws. There is no such thing as last orders at 11:30 and then drinking up time for another hour and a half.

I was on a course in London and at last orders on of the lads that was with us did the Irish thing and bought a double round. That was fun!

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Typical bouncer attitude...

jimi_t

Jigsaw wrote:

I am so frustrated...I just hate people throwing their weight around like that. :mad:

I'd say just get over it. Pubs reserve the right to refuse admission, whether you think it's justified or not - talking to the manager isn't going to do anything, he's not going to risk losing a bouncer for the sake of one, apparently argumentative, punter.

MayMay

AlmightyCushion wrote:

Ask to see the manager and explain the situation to him. It's better if you are there quite a bit and he recognises you if only to see.

Ask to see the manager and get that ape in trouble. Very unfair.

homah_7ft

jimi_t wrote:

I'd say just get over it. Pubs reserve the right to refuse admission, whether you think it's justified or not - talking to the manager isn't going to do anything, he's not going to risk losing a bouncer for the sake of one, apparently argumentative, punter.

Are bouncers that hard to replace?

tallaght01

Bouncers are supposed to be good decision makers, and be good with people. But people who make good decisions and are likeable probably don't need to work as bouncers. So you, by and large, just get a group of skangers. If it's somewhere that you and your mates go to a lot, then either speak to the manager by phone if you can't get in to see him (maybe go during the day when they may not have security on the door), or go somewhere else.

To be honest, if somewhere banned one of my mates for rubbish like that, me and the boys would go elsewhere.

AlmightyCushion

jimi_t wrote:

I'd say just get over it. Pubs reserve the right to refuse admission, whether you think it's justified or not - talking to the manager isn't going to do anything, he's not going to risk losing a bouncer for the sake of one, apparently argumentative, punter.

I really doubt the bouncer is going to lose his job for this.
Someone has said that it's part of uk law that there is no drinking up time. Just explain to him you didn't know and apologise and I'd say he'll let you back.

Dragan

As already pointed out the laws are different, you should really make yourself aware of what way things work in the country you plan on drinking in.

At the end of the day the guy went overboard but frankly having people arguing with you at closing time is the biggest test of the night, without a doubt.

I suggest you go in during the day and talk to the duty manager and explain what happened and why. Don't get self righteous, just say "Hey , I really didn't know what the score was" and see what way it goes.

To be honest it never ceases to amaze me why people would WANT to go back to a pub that would treat a customer so poorly to begin with.

Options people, they are out there.

arybvtcw0eolkf

I doubt its the law in the UK & N.I. that you can be served a drink only to have it taken back right away.

I wouldn't apologise to the idiot, like you said he was being a bully.

If I really wanted to drink there again I'd do one of two things.

I'd either drop in and talk to the manager. Do it properly, ring the premises and make an apointment to see him and explain the situation. Most likely he'll talk to his door staff and you'll be back in.

Or go talk to the manager, tell him the situation NEVER happened. His door staff will say it did. You ask for a copy of either an incident book, or security video of the incident. The club won't have either. At this stage you tell him your going to talk to your solicitor and leave it with him.

If he doesn't get back to you, employ a solicitor and sue the premises.

I've 15+ year's bar/club experience and this is the best advice I can give you if you really want to get back in again.

Failing that, wait until the guy is replaced. Most clubs have a high security turn over rate, especially idiots like this guy.

stipey

I doubt its the law in the UK & N.I. that you can be served a drink only to have it taken back right away.

Why wouldn't it be?

They are entitled by law to sell drink up to whatever time last orders is.
The landlord is running a business - with the aim of making a profit.
The more alcohol they sell the greater their profit.

At the end of the day, you are drinking from their glass so they obviously won't let you take that with you. (If they have to buy more glasses it eats into their profits).

The UK police actually take closing times and checking out times seriously. They don't really do the sigh and "come on now, everybody out and we'll say no more about it" that is regularly the case here. (If they let you stay they stand a good chance of facing a hefty fine - again eating into their profits).

I presume if you had another container that you could transfer the drink into and be on your merry way they would have no problem with that.

arybvtcw0eolkf

stipey wrote:

Why wouldn't it be?

They are entitled by law to sell drink up to whatever time last orders is.
The landlord is running a business - with the aim of making a profit.
The more alcohol they sell the greater their profit.

At the end of the day, you are drinking from their glass so they obviously won't let you take that with you. (If they have to buy more glasses it eats into their profits).

The UK police actually take closing times and checking out times seriously. They don't really do the sigh and "come on now, everybody out and we'll say no more about it" that is regularly the case here. (If they let you stay they stand a good chance of facing a hefty fine - again eating into their profits).

I presume if you had another container that you could transfer the drink into and be on your merry way they would have no problem with that.

Yea riiiiiiiiiiight :rolleyes:


Moving right along.


DRAGAN I wonder if you've ever had the experience whereby someone asked for the security tapes or incident book?.

I have once, in a very well known cafe-bar in Swords. The owner's barrister advised him to sort out the case or he'd be "taken for an easy 40 grand".

I'm sure the laws regarding defamation etc aren't too different in N.I.

5starpool

Mairt wrote:

I doubt its the law in the UK & N.I. that you can be served a drink only to have it taken back right away.

It is this way in all of Britland, including NI. I was taken aback the first time I came across this in London about 7 years ago, so I have learned to expect it now when I am in pubs in the UK.

As for the bouncer, he was just being a typical ignorant bouncer. A sizeable minority of them are in my experience.

stipey

Yea riiiiiiiiiiight

Any particular part of that (apart from the last line which was obviously tongue in cheek) that you wish to address or are you just eager to neatly side step all of it?

Dragan

Mairt wrote:

DRAGAN I wonder if you've ever had the experience whereby someone asked for the security tapes or incident book?.

4 times to date. The problem was that I was always able to provide whatever it was they requested.

Jigsaw

I think maybe I should go in by day and try to have a word with the manager and explain the situation. I don't want to lie about it because I want to be 100% sure that right is on my side. Thing is, the bar is nothing really special, but the problem is twofold.

1. Virtually all my mates drink there and whilst there has not been a problem so far, it's only a matter of time until there is.

2. The bar is literally 30 seconds walk from my apartment so it was dead handy.

3. I am more concerned with the principle of thing. I was seething as I walked away from the bar last Saturday night. The bouncer was there calling me an a**ehole to my face but saying that he would let me back in if I apologised to him. KInda humiliating when there were loads of people drinking and smoking outside in the nice weather.

Luckily I sort of well in with a few people in there. I am friendly with a couple of people who DJ in the place and because I went there quite regularly a good few of the bar staff know me on first name terms.

Most importantly, I just want the bouncer to know that can't get away with treating people like that. I simply brought it to his attention that I had just bought a pint yet was being asked to leave but it was like he only had one mode - aggression. He could have easily seen that I was not an aggressive fighting type and simply said "Sorry mate, we're just carrying out the orders of the management" and there would have been no problem, I'd have just left.

r3nu4l

Lads, this is common practice in much of the UK. You order a pint two minutes before chucking out time and if you're not finished then tough sh1t.

In many places it is the pub owner who instructs the bouncers to clear the place quickly. They are doing exactly what they are told and they do remove and bar people for not drinking up and getting out when told.

Every pub does this slightly differently. In some places it's a gentle reminder and then a stern warning. In others a team of bouncers methodically clear one table at a time. Staff remove full glasses while the bouncers hover over your shoulder. Attempts to stop the staff removing your glass are not advised here!

In Cambridge many owners of smaller pubs tends to call time and give some drinking up time but I've been in London and physically removed within seconds of the bouncers ordering people to stop drinking. Likewise I've been in London pubs where a five minute grace period is allowed. I'm sure there are some where lock-ins occur

Mossy Monk

Mairt wrote:

I doubt its the law in the UK & N.I. that you can be served a drink only to have it taken back right away.

They can sell drink up until closing time. Not their fault that someone buys drink a few minutes before closing time.

copacetic

5starpool wrote:

It is this way in all of Britland, including NI. I was taken aback the first time I came across this in London about 7 years ago, so I have learned to expect it now when I am in pubs in the UK.

As for the bouncer, he was just being a typical ignorant bouncer. A sizeable minority of them are in my experience.

agreed, first couple of times its happened I've been shocked but it is pretty standard practise to serve right up until closing. Then move people out straight away.

To the OP, they asked you to leave after closing and by the sounds of it you refused and took your time finishing your drink. They barred you because you were causing them to break the law and were likely to do the same again. They were damn right imo..

arybvtcw0eolkf

Dragan wrote:

4 times to date. The problem was that I was always able to provide whatever it was they requested.

After the incident in Swords I always made a point of recording everything and insisting on all staff member's doing like wise.

Its crazy that the public (and publicans) don't appricate just how vulnurable to law suits bar/clubs are.

Zambia

1st up OP feel free to PM the name of the place as I would think I know it.

Secondly the Bouncer as for the laws regarding drinking up was within his rights but executed them poorly.

If this is a club pub where you go regularly I would say the turn over rate is not as high as down south as some of of the door staff up here are embedded they wont do anything else or just cant.

Kinetic^

Hail 2 Da Chimp wrote:

Typical bouncer attitude...

Typical retard attitude.......:rolleyes:

Dragan

Mairt wrote:

After the incident in Swords I always made a point of recording everything and insisting on all staff member's doing like wise.

Its crazy that the public (and publicans) don't appricate just how vulnurable to law suits bar/clubs are.

Yeah I know. It's crazy.

All 4 of my incidents were physical based, so I was sure that I had all records from myself, other doorstaff, and witnesses recorded. I also ensure I review the tapes just to make the I was absolutely spot on with any judgements I made.

One was incredible funny actually, a guy broke a pint glass and tried to stab me in the face with it and when he ended up coming off the worse he tried to have me arrested for assualt.

I laughed.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Re. being pushed along right after being served a pint at closing time.

Thats a practice done here too, but it doesn't mean its law. Its just a practice thats excepted, but doesn't have precedence in law.

When I worked in Fitzsimons in Templebar that was our policy. Same as a club I worked in for awhile in Leixlip.

But regardless of the finer points of publican law's, the security man who removed the OP was clearly in the wrong and the OP going back to have a reasonable chat with the bar manager is his best course of action.

Frankiestylee

Total culture shock woh?

I remember getting a pint literally seconds before I heard a ding-a-ling bell and it was a desperate move to get to the furthest corner of the bar to buy myself some drinking time :P

Do you have legal grounds to sue in such circumstances? I thought the manager had the right to refuse admission?

poker_face

Similar thing happened to me when I was in bristol, I bought a drink a couple of mins b4 last orders & a few minutes later I had this big bald animal roaring in my face. When I started to politely explain that I only need a minute or two to finish up, another bouncer piped up by saying "it's always the same with you f***ing paddies". We got barred and we started laughing saying "we're going home tomorrow so we couldn't give a toss".

I've heard its the same in alot of the UK, its bad form if you ask me.

Kinetic^

Dragan wrote:

One was incredible funny actually, a guy broke a pint glass and tried to stab me in the face with it and when he ended up coming off the worse he tried to have me arrested for assualt.

I laughed.

:eek: ........glad he got pummelled!!!!

Dragan

Kenny 5 wrote:

:eek: ........glad he got pummelled!!!!

Nah, nothing like that. It only took a right cross and a well placed knee.

Kinetic^

Dragan wrote:

Nah, nothing like that. It only took a right cross and a well placed knee.

Aye but he was probably KO'd........poor fella, gotta love a chancer though.

copacetic

Mairt wrote:

Re. being pushed along right after being served a pint at closing time.

Thats a practice done here too, but it doesn't mean its law. Its just a practice thats excepted, but doesn't have precedence in law.

When I worked in Fitzsimons in Templebar that was our policy. Same as a club I worked in for awhile in Leixlip.

But regardless of the finer points of publican law's, the security man who removed the OP was clearly in the wrong and the OP going back to have a reasonable chat with the bar manager is his best course of action.

it's a fair bit different here as we have last orders so no-one should be served a drink anywhere near actual 'closing time'.

It also certainly isn't the normal practise here to move people out at closing time, have never seen that. although rarely frequent fitzsimons for obivous reasons.