Do lots of cardio to look older faster

Transform

The weather is excellent this past few days and this has encouraged more people to take up more activity like walking, jogging, cycling etc. This is encouraging and would like to see more of it.

The problem i find is that the first plan of action for most people to getting in shape is to do lots of cardio (no discussions on high intensity versus low intensity please). It is well known that beyond 30mins of cardio is not beneficial to your health and actually counter productive i.e. joint wear and tear, increased ageing on body etc

I love a good cycle and run just as much as the next person however i have very very rarely seen anyone who regularly runs for over 30mins each session that looks great - most end up smaller, older versions of themselves and generally look 'flat' and undefined. Now this may be how many women are happy to look and do not want an athletic body, just to look skinny and this is why most of the cardio areas in gyms are filled with women. Thats their choice and best of luck to them (there are quicker ways to get in great shape ladies!).

My point is if cardio is the only form of exercise you do then you will NEVER look fit and in great shape.

I tested 2 male clients last week, both 25 years old, one had a 6% body fat and the other 10%. Good scores yes but both looked flat and with shirts off not at all head turning material.

Cardio should be one part of what you do to get in shape but its not going to get you into the shape most of you want to be in, thats the purpose of a good weights program. Just look at the people you see doing hours of cardio week in week out in your gym, the spinning/aerobics people or the walkers in your park, do they ever look any better, not unless they are doing weights i bet?

lubie76

I agree 100% Transform. I see girls in my own gym doing an hour on the cross trainer and then they look at me funny for using the bar weights to do a few squats or lunges. I'd rather do 20 mins cardio and more weights to look toned. Being skinny and flat is just not attractive

Transform

I call it skinny fat or fat fit for all those that can run, spin etc yet still look
f a t

Hawk Wing

I think I have it perfected after years of trying, 20 minute cardio 6 times a week maybe 7, running 3 minutes on 2 minute fast walking intervals, never felt better for half the effort. I must point out that is after 45-60 minutes of weights

vorbis

just curious how this relates to playing a sport such as soccer?
Is playing a few matches a week actually bad for you?? (I'm 25) or is it ok as you're not at full intensity for the whole match?

/OT
When people mention a bench press weight, are they including or excluding the bar weight? That's always confused me.

tribulus

Any standard oly bar is 20kg- you lift that too so it makes senses to include it as part of the weight lifted!

hunnymonster

I agree with what you're saying but you left one vital aspect out of your arguement Transform. I have never found anything in life that compares to crossing the line of a race first or beating a PB for a distance or any other high that I get from running/triathlon. I know that for some people on here looking good is the main thing but for me fitness is something else.

Beelzebub

Weight training/strength training also increases bone density. So from that POV alone it should be a part of anyone's fitness regime, unless they are physically unable to do it.

Beelzebub

I also meant to say that Hunnymonster has a very good point, not for the first time.

Weight training also gives you a high/rush, and with very little effort.
I'm guessing that it's not as good or as long lasting as runners or triathletes high, I have never experienced those.

So there's another very good reason to train.

But the main reason to train I feel personally is to get healthy and stay healthy for as long as possible.

This is not everyone's goal.

davyjose

But for the majority of people, myself being one of them, cardio is a necessary part of staying fit/looking good. A lot of people find it very difficult to drop bodyfat through diet and weights alone. I myself, until very recently, have spent the last two years (on and off, Im afraid) mostly using weights, and whilst I put on lots of weight (yes, some of it was muscle ), I was in the best shape of my life back when I was doing both.
Cardio is perhaps underrated, or oft-ignored round these parts, but unless you aspire along the lines of Ronnie Coleman, it is, IMO, critical to your exercise regime.

Smellyirishman

davyjose wrote:

Cardio is perhaps underrated, or oft-ignored round these parts, but unless you aspire along the lines of Ronnie Coleman, it is, IMO, critical to your exercise regime.

I don't think anyone denied it's importance, just pointed out that the typical approach is not the best way to achieve the typical goals. I think you hear less emphasis on cardio here as most people are doing it in some form by the time they get here, walking, running, swimming, whatever but perhaps now we can reflect more on exactly how people are doing it.

Interesting post Transform, yet again.

Beelzebub

"I tested 2 male clients last week, both 25 years old, one had a 6% body fat and the other 10%. Good scores yes but both looked flat and with shirts off not at all head turning material."


What are their diets like?

unreggd

Most of the people who go walking/jogging do so because they dont go to the gym, or have much equipment at home

And walkin/joggin outside is a great stress-reliever, and its nice to clear your head in the open air


A lot of women in particular have a strange fear of weights, as they think they'll get bigger, or look masculine

I don't think you're bein too understanding of most of the circumstances involved

Yes cardio can cause wear and tear of joints, but weight training can be just as bad, if not worse, if not done properly. And fat plumps out the skin and reduces wrinkles, hence people with a lower bf% looking older

Personally, i'd rather be slim, and then add mass, than have the mass covered in flab

Also, theres the whole fitness side of things, as in a lower heart rate at rest, bein able to do things faster, and keep goin longer


I think all programmes should have a mix, but your post is just like a big rant abt skinny people

davyjose

Smellyirishman wrote:

I don't think anyone denied it's importance, just pointed out that the typical approach is not the best way to achieve the typical goals.

Yes but it still seems to have developed a bit of a bad name - look at the title of the post, for instance. I mean, eating crisps, smoking and drinking beer whilst sitting on my ar$e all day will make me look a lot older than going jogging, IMO.

Scuba_Scoper

Transform wrote:

Cardio should be one part of what you do to get in shape but its not going to get you into the shape most of you want to be in, thats the purpose of a good weights program. Just look at the people you see doing hours of cardio week in week out in your gym, the spinning/aerobics people or the walkers in your park, do they ever look any better, not unless they are doing weights i bet?

Maybe this post should be moved to the Fashion & Appearance forum

Physical fitness is not just defined by how "good"/buff you look Transform. Please remember that.

How does one define physical fitness then......20 inch biceps, 23 inch waist, 38 minute 10k. I woudl argue that all are "fit" but in different ways.The 38minute 10k'er won't be all that defined but think what would their resting heart rate be in comparison to the 20 inch biceps.

Transform

Could not be arsed to even reply to that!

The guys diets were good to average with the usual mistakes but just compensated by the fact that they trained 3-4 days per week.

tunney

hunnymonster wrote:

I have never found anything in life that compares to crossing the line of a race first or beating a PB for a distance or any other high that I get from running/triathlon.

I agree - more muscle than you need to perform at your endurance sport of choice just slows you down something stupid.

Scuba_Scoper wrote:

The 38minute 10k'er won't be all that defined

True but the 33minute 10k'er will be

slemons

imo there should be no such thing as cardio/treadmills/spinning classes etc. sprints only please. its still a good fat burner and can help build muscle as opposed to burning it off...

Transform

stay off the whole bigger is better topic please as i train clients for 25-30hours a week of personal training so i have a very very good idea as to how most would like to look i.e. not too big not too small, fit and toned looking.

I am saying if cadio if the ONLY thing you do its a pity as there are quicker ways to getting better results and i have had more clients getting injuries from cardio than from weights period.

cormie

For people who are a bit overweight, would they not get better results by doing cardio until they are at a weight where they can then mix in a weight routine to tone up? Toning up when you have a load of fat to lose is not much use if you can't see the definition and this will also have mental strain "why isn't my 6 pac showing through all this flab" type thing:)

So say somebody is 2.5 stone overweight, they concentrate on cardio which will get them fit and healthy, they lose 2 stone and then mix in a weight/sit-up routine to lose the last .5 stone or turn it into muscle or whatever?

curious george

like an increasing number of threads on this forum this one would probably fit in better in fashion and APPEARANCE.

hunnymonster

slemons wrote:

imo there should be no such thing as cardio/treadmills/spinning classes etc. sprints only please. its still a good fat burner and can help build muscle as opposed to burning it off...

Not everyone can sprint without incurring injury.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

davyjose

slemons wrote:

imo there should be no such thing as cardio/treadmills/spinning classes etc. sprints only please. its still a good fat burner and can help build muscle as opposed to burning it off...

Everybody has different goals - some people want the Brad Pitt fight club look, some people want to be able to run 10k, some people want to be able to sprint, some people want to be able to life heavy, some people want the Ronnie Coleman look. It's all personal - but not everyone can train the same way.

wasabi

I think the key is that people should have the right information so they are doing the right training to reach whatever their goals are. Unfortunately it seems a lot of people overestimate the value of steady state cardio and underestimate the value of other types of training.

Money Shot

curious george wrote:

like an increasing number of threads on this forum this one would probably fit in better in fashion and APPEARANCE.

I have to agree with this as something that has surprised me. I don't think a lot of people are overly concerned with how fit they are, but are very concerned with how they appear to everyone else. 90% mentioned above probably isn't far off.

I do agree with the crux of what the OP is saying, but most people who run / cycle a lot train to get their times down and aren't really bothered about the size of their bicep. However, if these guys are running themselves into the ground for the purpose of looking better in a t-shirt that's to small for them, then the OP has a good point.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Hanley

curious george wrote:

like an increasing number of threads on this forum this one would probably fit in better in fashion and APPEARANCE.

So by your reasoning ONLY fitness can be discussed here. Strength can't. Muscle can't. Weight loss and weight gain can't. ONLY fitness??

t-ha

I think (and correct me if I'm wrong Transform) that he was referring to those who have decided to get out in the fine weather and do a little exercise to feel healthier/lose weight/look better. We all know someone (or alot of people) who fit into this category - realistically their main goal is to look better, with health being a secondary bonus, and winning marathons or cycling competitively are probably not high on their list of agendas. They're not athletes, they're people looking to get in shape a little and look good beside the pool on their holidays.

There will always be exceptions to any general bits of advice that get handed around and people to whom these guidelines will not apply for whatever reason, but I think we all know who this advice is directed at and can agree that it's good advice for them.

Beelzebub

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

That would depend on the advice. And like it has been said before don't take anything said here as gospel check it out for yourself.

empirix

yeah, bad forthe joints alright, personally i warm down after each weights session with about 20 - 30 mins of cardio usually split half on the treadmill and arc trainer. To burn fat i recommend a weight routine doing 3 X sets of about 12 - 15 reps adding weight to the bars each time but just heavy enough to complete ALL 15 reps. do this with little or no rest in between and you won't even need to do cardio(although i like to personally). I feel geat and look pretty good too, if i do say so myself

Money Shot

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Very true, unless it means taking potentially dangerous suplements or hovering around very low bf% for protracted periods of time.

Scuba_Scoper

Hanley wrote:

So by your reasoning ONLY fitness can be discussed here. Strength can't. Muscle can't. Weight loss and weight gain can't. ONLY fitness??

I don't see how you can come to that conclusion based on what has been said here. In fact those very reasons you state are the very reasons, I am sure, that the majority of people read this forum and the fitness logs for.

IMHO;
Alot of the recent threads have been along the lines of "I want to look good for summer,pleasehelp me make my x bigger or my y smaller"

The OP's central point was - "most end up smaller, older versions of themselves and generally look 'flat' and undefined." because of cardio for more than 30 minutes.

That is not right. No question.

The other points in relation to "getting into the shape" that his clients want are irrefutable.

Weight training good, cardio bad is not accurate - that is all anyone is saying here, I think.

curious george

Hanley wrote:

So by your reasoning ONLY fitness can be discussed here. Strength can't. Muscle can't. Weight loss and weight gain can't. ONLY fitness??

I would consider strength to be a component of fitness along with cardiovascular fitness and flexibility etc..
My point was that a lot of the threads are only about looking good and appearance. Maybe a seperate thread like- 'Beach abs and t-shirt muscles' is needed

Dragan

Guys, get the thread back on track.

If you disagree with the content of a thread strongly enough then PM myself or another mod or take it to feedback.

If you have an issue with a thread then i simply suggest you do not post in it? Sounds kinda simple and adult but lets try it out for a while.

Now, back on topic, anymore off topic conversation will result in a warning.

Transform

t-ha wrote:

I think (and correct me if I'm wrong Transform) that he was referring to those who have decided to get out in the fine weather and do a little exercise to feel healthier/lose weight/look better. We all know someone (or alot of people) who fit into this category - realistically their main goal is to look better, with health being a secondary bonus, and winning marathons or cycling competitively are probably not high on their list of agendas. They're not athletes, they're people looking to get in shape a little and look good beside the pool on their holidays.

There will always be exceptions to any general bits of advice that get handed around and people to whom these guidelines will not apply for whatever reason, but I think we all know who this advice is directed at and can agree that it's good advice for them.

I agree with all of the above. Thanks

And again as i posted in my last post - get a balance in your training Beginners as that will produce the fastest results.

I love doing cardio and best marathon time is 3hrs 12mins - did i do lots of cardio and less weights then, yes. Did i look what i would consider my best, no! I look my best now and feel farrrrr better

Enjoy your run, walk, cycle, tag rugby etc but if thats all your doing to get into shape then its a long and winding path your following

Boru.

Scuba_Scoper wrote:

The OP's central point was - "most end up smaller, older versions of themselves and generally look 'flat' and undefined." because of cardio for more than 30 minutes.

That is not right. No question.

Aside from all the concrete scientific evidence and the millions of anectodal cases that support Transfroms statement. He's right and it is supported by fundamental biology.

Here's a brief (and very unscientifc) explanation, if you want full medical and scientific references to all the supporting studies for this please let me know.

The human orgainism is adaptive - you provide a stimulous you adapt to it. Eg you lift heavy weights that require more strength than you have you get stronger. The same is true for extended cardio. It provides a stimulous which I shall explain in a moment and then your body adapts.

Your body has a number of energy systems that is uses to fuel itself of which I shall in VERY simplistic terms describe. The first one is sugar based. Sugar, stored in the muscles, stored as glucose is of the fuel of choice when the body first begins exercising. This lasts only a short time and your body uses other fuels sources.

Long, slow endurance (+30 mins cardio) primarily uses FAT as it's fuel of choice.

So your body adapts.....

If you consistently require your body to use up your fat reserves on a regular basis through 30+ mins of cardio, your body adapts by storing more fat and reducing it's sugar stores which aren't being used. This naturally effects the apperance.

Most of the sugar stored in your body is done so in the muscles. In order to do so 1 g of sugar needs 3g of water. Thus when you need to store more sugar becasue it's your primary fuel source you develop full firm muscles, packed tight with water. When you store fat as your primary fuel source, you don't need as much water thus you....

[/I]end up smaller, older versions of themselves and generally look 'flat' and undefined[/I]

As regards the "older" comment that too is true - long endurcane cardio is proven to reducce maximal cariac output - in a very real sense you lear to pump less blood with a smaller heart - thus you need less oxygen, and so a smaller lung volume. In case you didn't know the number 1 predicator of age is - LUNG VOLUME. As such you cna safely claim wiht full scientific and medialsupport that cardio done for 30+ minutes does in fact make you older.

cormie

So is this 30+ mins per 24 hours or per session or what? Like are you saying if you walk to work for 30 mins at 8am, walk back at 5pm and go for a 30 min run at 8pm, you're doing 3x more excercise than you should be?

Boru.

No what I'm saying, and Transform may not agree, is that walking and low intensity cardio is great exercise for the soul, nothing more. Walking to and back from work is great - but it won't have an major positive impact on your fitness levels or body composition unless you are very unfit to start with. I personally would not consider walking a form of exercise - it's a great non threatening into, but it aint gonna do much.

I love to walk, I did two day - one with my mum, for an hour and a half which was great and one with my father for 25 minutes. Loved every second of it. Good conversation, great weather, exercsie for the soul (except in the case of my father - that 25 minute walk was quite intense for him, he is currently recovering from a stroke and a major and complicated non cardiac related surgery).

As I have frequently stated IN MY VIEW - and only in my view, I'm not speaking for anyone else here, that one can obtain optimal fitness within a 10-20 minute workout done 3 times a week. Again this view is backed up by current scientific and medical evidience. (Doesn't sell supplements or a gym membership though )

Pherekydes

Boru. wrote:

...long endurcane cardio is proven to reducce maximal cariac output - in a very real sense you lear to pump less blood with a smaller heart - thus you need less oxygen, and so a smaller lung volume. In case you didn't know the number 1 predicator of age is - LUNG VOLUME.

Eh? What lowers the resting heart rate?

I was always under the impression that endurance training increased the size of the cardiac muscle, thereby increasing cardiac output and reducing the stroke rate.

But what you're saying is the opposite?

Effect on the heart

As an endurance athlete, you will develop an athlete's heart which is very different to the non athlete's heart. You will have:

* Bradycardia - Low resting pulse rate of under 50 bpm
* ECG shows ventricular hypertrophy (thickening of the heart muscle wall)
* X-ray reveals an enlarged heart
* Blood tests shows raised muscle enzymes

The above for the average person (non athlete) indicate a probable heart block, hypertension, heart failure, a recent myocardial infarct or cardiomyopathy. Should you need to go into hospital or see your doctor, you should inform them that you are an endurance athlete.

From http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/enduranc.htm

Scuba_Scoper

Boru. wrote:

Aside from all the concrete scientific evidence and the millions of anectodal cases that support Transfroms statement. He's right and it is supported by fundamental biology.
QUOTE]

All I can say in response is;

I have been a runner since I was 14 (nearly 30 year ago).
I have run every day 90% of the time.

I do not look old for my age.
I have not reduced in size (the opposite in fact)
My heart is not Smaller.

Now, I am going for a run

siochain

Boru. wrote:

As I have frequently stated IN MY VIEW - and only in my view, I'm not speaking for anyone else here, that one can obtain optimal fitness within a 10-20 minute workout done 3 times a week. Again this view is backed up by current scientific and medical evidience. (Doesn't sell supplements or a gym membership though )

Hi Boru, I'd be very interested in the details of this workout and the evidence backing it up. If you get a chance PM me.

Peace

Boru.

Hi Slow Coach,

Here's a simple analogy that perhaps will explain things a little clearer. Would you need a Ferrari race engine to drive at only 30mph for over 2 hours? No, it's pointless and inefficent. You get a lighter less petrol consuming engine, say one in a commercial Toyota.

The human heart is like the Ferrari engine - it's deigned to go fast and hard for short bursts of time, then relax and take it easy. As I said the human body adapts to the stimulus it is presented with. If you don't stimulate your body by pushing it with short intense bursts of exercise then it doesn't need the extra cardiac reserve capactiy it has - it's non essential therefore over time downgraded and reduced in order to optemize efficency - in this case low long fat burning stimulation.

With this reduction in heart capacity the size of the heart also reduces, then so to do the lungs.

I don't beleive I referred to the lowering of the resting heart rate.

On that matter though I have achieved far surperior results with both myself and my clients using short intense bursts of exercise, while at the same time increasing their cardiac reserve and VO2 Max. In fact I have on my TeamTest journal a more indepth discussion of this including a shot of my heart rate monitor graph dsiplaying a sub 50bpm. (lowest I ever had was 32bpm).

As for the quote you posted - that's brilliant. Is no one else worried by the colleration of the endurance heart with those at a higher risk of heart attack etc...hmmm...now remind me again, what did from the very first marathon runner Phillipades, Jack Kelly and even the super fit Jim Fixx die from...?

Oh the question of medical evidence, The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Harvard Medical, the Loughborough University in Leicestershire, England, or Laval University in Quebec to name a few will be more than happy to confirm and cohoberate all of my statements regarding this.

siochain, as regards the details of my personal workout programs and protocols I don't discuss them on boards. However here's a partial list of references and studies I posted on the TeamTest Forum where I discussed the same topic - saves me typing The full thread including excellent criticims and comments is available on the TeamTest Forum towards the end of this page - http://www.teamtestforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=866&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=135

• Liu M, Bergholm R, et al. A marathon run increases the susceptibility of LDL to oxidation in vitro and modifies plasma antioxidants. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab, 276: E1083-E1091, 1999; 0193-1849/99.
  
• Hetland ML, Haarbo J, et al. Low bone mass and high bone turnover in male long distance runners. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Vol. 77, 770-775, 1993.
  
• Press Release. Short bouts of exercise reduce fat in the bloodstream. American College of Sports Medicine. Aug 5, 2004.
  
• Lee I, Sesso H, et al. Physical activity and coronary heart disease risk in men. Circulation. 2000; 102: 981-986.
  
• Trappe S, Harber M, et al. Single muscle fiber adaptations with marathon training. J Appl Physiol, 101:721-727, 2006.
  
• Van Helder WP. et al., Effect of Anaerobic and Aerobic Exercise of Equal Duration and Work Expenditure on Plasma Growth Hormone Levels, Eur J Appl Physiol 52 (1984) : 255-257.
  
• Metabolism 1994; 43: 814-818
  
• Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise 2002; 34: 1468- 1474. Journal of Applied Physiology 1999: 87 (3) 982-992.
  
• Lee I., et al. Circulation 2003 Mar 4; 1087 (Cool: 2220-6.
  
• Williams P. Relationships of heart disease risk factors to exercise quantity and intensity. Arch Intern Med. 1998;158:237- 245.
  
• Groscienski, Philip, MD, Health Secrets of the Stone Age. 2005, Oceanside, CA.
  
• Tabata I, Nishimura K, et al. Effects of moderate-intensity endurance and high-intensity intermittent training on anaerobic capacity and VO2max. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1996 Oct;28(10):1327-30.
  
• Kolata G. Lactic Acid is Not Muscle’s Foe, It’s Fuel. The New York Times. May 16, 2006
  
• Nitti Joseph. The Interval Training Workout: Build Muscle and Burn Fat with Anaerobic Exercise. Hunter House Publishers. 2001
  
• Helliker K. Fears mount over dangers of pumping iron. The Wall Street Journal. Mar 13, 2003
  
• Ross, Jill. Strength Training For Seniors. The American College of Sports Medicine. 2004.
  
• Cook DG, Shaper AG. Breathlessness, lung function and the risk of heart attack. European Society of Cardiology. Feb 29, 1988.
  
• Truelsen T, Prescott E, et al. Lung function and risk of fatal and non-fatal stroke. The Copenhagen City Heart Study. International Journal of Epidemiology 2001; 30:145-151.
  
• Dean W. Biological Aging Measurement –Clinical Applications. 1988. The Center for Bio-Gerontology. Los Angeles, CA.
  
• Sedlock, Darlene, et al. Effect of exercise intensity and duration on postexercise energy expenditure. Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise. 1989.
  
• Lewin, R. Tuning Biorhythms through Cyclic Exercise. Holistic Primary Care. Spring 2006.
  
• Sears, Al. The Doctor’s Heart Cure. Dragon Door Publications, St. Paul, MN, 2004.
  
• Lewin,R. Making Waves: Irving Dardik and his Superwave Principle. Rodale, 2005

Scuba_Scoper, I'm great you've gotten great results to date. When less case of obesity and diabetes for me to worry about. I'd also be willing to say that you supplement your running with other intense physical exhertion and that you on occassion when running, sprint? Would I be right?

I'd also analyse how you developed as runner from that age, increasing intensity levels thorugh progessive speed and distance perhaps?

The piont is that running doesn't work for you, the point is that you catagorically stated that Transform was "wrong. No question" I am simply pointing out that the scientific evidence supports and agrees with him. There is a question. That is why open minds and continued study are crucial for the development and refinement of our training protocols. And that includes testiung and questioning the theories and evidence I present - hence the reason I do mention such things.

I don't care who's right or wrong - I just am intrested in providing the safest and most efficent training principals possible for the benefit of my own training and that of my clients. These change over time as we learn more and adapt.

In the past, as I mentioned on another thread recently I would have agreed with you. I still have outdated articles recomending slow intense exercise that I haven't had a chance to change as of yet. I have nor do I hope ever have, a problem holding up my hands and saying, well, you know what it turns out I was worng and this is safer and more effeicent according to the research. Let's do that instead.

The only problem I have is with closed minded dogmatic thinking. With that said, the opinions, views and theories I have expressed above are mine and mine alone based on the scientifc and medical data available to date. As such they are subject to revision, development and change - as is everything.

Enjoy your run.

Pherekydes

Boru. wrote:

Hi Slow Coach,

The human heart is deigned to go fast and hard for short bursts of time, then relax and take it easy. As I said the human body adapts to the stimulus it is presented with.

The human body adapts to the stimulus it's presented with. That means if it's presented with long aerobic endurance based exercise, it will adapt to it. The human heart is designed to do what we train it to do.

Regarding the resting heart rate reference: No, you did not mention it, I did. With endurance training, the heart grows and becomes stronger. At rest, the body requires a similar volume of blood, and since the heart pumps out more with each beat, it requires fewer beats to do the same work. This is basic physiology.

Endurance athletes have larger, stronger hearts. That is also basic physiology.

Bringing Jim Fixx and Pheippides into it? WTF?

It's well known that Fixx had a congenital abnormality, and many experts reckon he added years to his life with endurance training: his dad died at 38 and he died at 52.

Jack Kelly? Who is he? It's not John Kelley of Boston Marathon fame, is it? Poor codger, he died very prematurely at 97.

thirtyfoot

hunnymonster wrote:

I agree with what you're saying but you left one vital aspect out of your arguement Transform. I have never found anything in life that compares to crossing the line of a race first or beating a PB for a distance or any other high that I get from running/triathlon. I know that for some people on here looking good is the main thing but for me fitness is something else.

Hunnymonster is bang on the money here. For the competitive runners here its not about how you look.
From my experiences to say cardio will age you is dubious. My uncle has gone 70, he has ran in 25 Marathons and looks like a man in his 50's. He is as fit as a fiddle and as rarely or never been ill. I've being doing cardio for 15 years and look young for my age and my wife has no complaints about my flat body - in fact its seeing me flaked on the track having put in 100% in a session or digging out a win in a race when I've had no right too is what does it for her (and me too).

Aside from the scientific debate, I think its great with the good weather all the people out running/jogging/walking, better than stuck on the couch. I can understand from a personal trainers perspective who are being paid silly money to get clients in shape but for the vast majority of people out there they don't want to be stuck in a gym when the sun is splitting the stones even if its not for financial reasons or the fact that jogging/running can be a very social sport. I'm seeing more and more people out jogging/running and it does seem like there is a jogging revival - Arthur Lydiard would be proud.

tunney

I think this thread proves that the fitness boars isn't worth a cr*p to read. I think I'll get better fitness advice and info on the after hours board instead.

Dragan

tunney wrote:

I think this thread proves that the fitness boars isn't worth a cr*p to read. I think I'll get better fitness advice and info on the after hours board instead.

Obviously you don't read every post and missed me saying anyone with issues go to either a mod or to feedback.

Consider yourself officially warned Tunney. Keep things on topic, deal with issues as instructed or don't post.

curious george

tunney wrote:

I think this thread proves that the fitness boars isn't worth a cr*p to read. I think I'll get better fitness advice and info on the after hours board instead.

seconded

Dragan

curious george wrote:

seconded

Curious George on a two week timeout for persistently ignoring Moderator requests to keep on topic and stop bitching about content within threads.

Hanley

tunney wrote:

I think this thread proves that the fitness boars isn't worth a cr*p to read. I think I'll get better fitness advice and info on the after hours board instead.

I've yet to see you give good advice. And if you're sto special and all knowing why not post pics and stats?