Nationality-ism/Racism on Daft

Morrigan

3 bed house in excellent condition recently decorated,close to all local amenities, front & rear gardens, gas central heating, small IRISH family or couple. available for immediate occupancy.

www.daft.ie/214539


I'll be interested to see how long this ad lasts.

godtabh

Morrigan wrote:

3 bed house in excellent condition recently decorated,close to all local amenities, front & rear gardens, gas central heating, small IRISH family or couple. available for immediate occupancy.

www.daft.ie/214539


I'll be interested to see how long this ad lasts.

I don't get it. are you being pedantic or trying to be funny?

I wouldn't call that Nationality-ism or Racism.

If it said no <inset nationality here> then maybe

connundrum

Yes, racism is rampant on that site. Close it all down. Example!

Get a grip OP, its your house, you should be able to choose who you live with/rent it out to. Equality should only exist in the work place.

BTW look at the amount of ads saying Girls Only.

Afuera

kearnsr wrote:

I don't get it. are you being pedantic or trying to be funny?

I wouldn't call that Nationality-ism or Racism.

If it said no <inset nationality here> then maybe

It says no <nationality of any type except Irish>! How is that not being racist?

Brooklyn74

If I'm not mistaken, the Equal Status Act allows discrimination in housing only if you're sharing the home with the person(s) you're renting to. Otherwise it is illegal.

DonJose

I worked in Germany for years and it was hard to find accommodation in the early 90's due to Irish students wrecking rented apartments. Saw another story in the Sunday World last year about the same cr@p happening in the US. Maybe the same thing is happening here with non-national workers. Maybe the landlord has a previous bad experience with non-nationals, who knows, if this bothers you so much why not contact the landlord and make a complaint. I know of one house down the street that was left in tatters by non-nationals, it took months for the landlord to repair, once repaired he sold the house.

jmayo

Morrigan wrote:

3 bed house in excellent condition recently decorated,close to all local amenities, front & rear gardens, gas central heating, small IRISH family or couple. available for immediate occupancy.

www.daft.ie/214539


I'll be interested to see how long this ad lasts.

Yep that ad is unPCish and discriminatory against a lot of groups.
It states "small" family or couple.
So it is discriminating against tall big people, it is discriminatory against big families since only want small families.
Also just spotted it is discriminatory against single people.
We will have to brainstorm, oops can say that since discriminating against people with epilepsey (sorry about spelling, not being discriminatory, just can't spell). And if you say anything against me you are being unPCish about people with dsylexia.

Spot a trend yet!

As Enda said we will get rid of all the "ishes" if we are elected.
Could statrt with PCish.

bugler

There's nothing stopping the person from discriminating in more subtle ways. You can tell them to alter the advert, and then they'll just tell any foreign people who enquire that the place is gone. You really can't stop this.

I'd imagine the main reason landlords want "Irish" people is part old-fashioned xenophobia, and partly because many Polish/Russian/Lithuanian people are here as a money making exercise and therefore will want to rent cheap. To this end a couple of people may rent an apartment officially, but in reality another 2/3 people may live there to split the rent. Much like many Irish students would probably do in the U.S or Australia - I know of people recalling living in apartments with 10/11 other people (and these were not big places).

The_Conductor

To be honest- I don't see what the issue is......
The house next door to me was rented by 6 Polish lads working on a local development. The development was mothballed two weeks ago- the lads have stated they do not intend to pay rent for June and are going to London, where they have been offered work for the same contractor they were working for here. The landlord is livid- but short of starting eviction proceedings- by which time they will already have left the country- there is not a lot he can do.

Re: Irish only- so what. I was refused summer jobs in Germany because I was Irish, I was tripped up in the street in Kenya because I was white, I was asked by an American relative whether we had indoor bathrooms in Ireland. I don't give a damn.

Perhaps it might have been more sensetive of the landlord to seek a young couple, or professionals for his house- which most probably would have equated to the same (though builders and those in the construction industry consider themselves professionals these days.......)

I think the landlord is being nationalist, rather than racist. He doesn't say anywhere that a black Irish couple can't apply to him- that would be racist.

Re: "small" Irish family- jmayo- he meant the number of people in the family, not their height. I come from a large Irish family (of 9)- so obviously it wouldn't be reasonable to try to fit an abnormal number of people in a smallish 3 bedroom house.

Single people- I doubt the landlord would mind- but 1,300 per month would be out the reach of single people- its a house, not an apartment. If a single person of sufficient means applied- who knows......

He didn't say anything like "No welfare cheques acceptable" or any other stuff- so I say live and let live. At the end of the day he could have had hoardes viewing the house, only to choose his desired tenants without having to give any reason to everyone else. At the end of the day its the same effect.

Nationalist, yes, Racist, no. My tuppence.

bugler

The development was mothballed two weeks ago- the lads have stated they do not intend to pay rent for June and are going to London,

Err...he didn't take any deposit?

Supercell

Morrigan wrote:

3 bed house in excellent condition recently decorated,close to all local amenities, front & rear gardens, gas central heating, small IRISH family or couple. available for immediate occupancy.

www.daft.ie/214539


I'll be interested to see how long this ad lasts.

His house, his right to say no smokers no drunks no whatever ..jaysus haven't you anything better to get worked up about?

This ad will last as long as it take for some (Irish) punter to rent the place.

The_Conductor

The letting agent had bigger fish to fry than chase them for it (hint they are on Main Street Lucan Village- and having problems shifting units elsewhere in Lucan........)

Owen

I guess it's down to the owner of the house. Herself is Polish, but speaks like an Irish person. Her best friend however doesn't, when she was phoning people looking to rent a room, the rooms were taken, but when herself'd ring back 5 minutes later, she'd have no problem getting a viewing appointment.

Victor

Brooklyn74 wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, the Equal Status Act allows discrimination in housing only if you're sharing the home with the person(s) you're renting to. Otherwise it is illegal.

Subtley different. Its if the housing is designed for 6 people or fewer (all 1- and 2-beds, most 3-beds, not 4-beds), then discrimination is legal. The ad. appears to be legal, just probably not acceptable.

I think the owner occupier rule would generally be better.

antoinolachtnai

I don't think that is correct Victor. That exemption only applies if you are living in the property yourself *and* there are fewer than 6 bed spaces.

See http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/act/pub/0008/print.html#partii-sec6

By my reading the ad is illegal. All the sob stories about discrimination against Irish abroad are not relevant. The idea that people offering goods and services can refuse whom they like on the basis of gender, ethnicity, sexuality, disability, age or nationality is just wrong.

godtabh

smccarrick wrote:

The letting agent had bigger fish to fry than chase them for it (hint they are on Main Street Lucan Village- and having problems shifting units elsewhere in Lucan........)

Haha I know them well. The fcuked me over when I was trying to buy a place.

But seriously the PC brigade are going over board with this.

If its your private home surely you have the right to let it to who ever you want.

If on the other hand he had let it to a non national then kicked him out because he wanted irish only then I would have a problem with that.

Victor

antoinolachtnai wrote:

I don't think that is correct Victor. That exemption only applies if you are living in the property yourself *and* there are fewer than 6 bed spaces.

Strange. I have always read that differently.

BigTommyBomb

If people can discriminate based on sex then surely race is no different.

A Random Walk

kearnsr wrote:

If its your private home surely you have the right to let it to who ever you want.

It's not a private home it's a house for rent. A publican can't exclude people from his pub just because it's "his".

jmayo

smccarrick wrote:

Re: "small" Irish family- jmayo- he meant the number of people in the family, not their height. I come from a large Irish family (of 9)- so obviously it wouldn't be reasonable to try to fit an abnormal number of people in a smallish 3 bedroom house.

Single people- I doubt the landlord would mind- but 1,300 per month would be out the reach of single people- its a house, not an apartment. If a single person of sufficient means applied- who knows......

Ehhhh tongue was firmly in cheek with my reply.
My point is if you want to you can read unPC (and I knw we are talking racism here supposedly) into any statement.

Sometimes I think we are now definetly taking ourselves way too seriously.

godtabh

A Random Walk wrote:

It's not a private home it's a house for rent. A publican can't exclude people from his pub just because it's "his".

Its different isnt it?

A pub is open to the public ie public house. A rented house isnt

antoinolachtnai

Well, you are providing a service for hire, so the same general principles apply. Renting property is just a business, the same as any other business.

There are some limitations where you are living in the house yourself, in which case you are entitled to run your household as you see fit, and this is what Victor is referring to it. But if you are offering a house to rent you can't discriminate on the basis of nationality, family situation, age, race, sexuality, gender, etc.

The_Conductor

That may very well be the case. The landlord simply put his preference in writing- if he hadn't said anything at all, he would have been free to pick and choose his tenants at will, and no-one would have been any the wiser.
Time will tell whether anyone actually complains about the advertisement or not.

egan007

Come on now - it's only fair, if the Owner want's IRISH they should get irish.
After all we are far more respectable than other races

seahorse

smccarrick wrote:

I think the landlord is being nationalist, rather than racist. He doesn't say anywhere that a black Irish couple can't apply to him..

I agree with this. Anyway, 'no EHB assistance accepted' is a regular occurrence in housing adverts. I’ve never heard the PC brigade complaining about the obvious classism inherent in that.

Brooklyn74

seahorse wrote:

I’ve never heard the PC brigade complaining about the obvious classism inherent in that.

I have. Loads of times.

antoinolachtnai

smccarrick wrote:

That may very well be the case. The landlord simply put his preference in writing- if he hadn't said anything at all, he would have been free to pick and choose his tenants at will, and no-one would have been any the wiser.
Time will tell whether anyone actually complains about the advertisement or not.

Well, the offending part of the ad is gone now.

If you don't give someone an apartment, you'd better have a good reason, same as with any service.

antoinolachtnai

seahorse wrote:

I agree with this. Anyway, 'no EHB assistance accepted' is a regular occurrence in housing adverts. I’ve never heard the PC brigade complaining about the obvious classism inherent in that.

The only problem is that there is Irish and European law against discriminating on the basis of nationality. There is no law preventing a landlord from discriminating against a potential tenant on the basis of how they plan to fund the rent.

TCollins

Had an interesting conversation with my landlord last week.
He owns the 2-bed house a few doors down from me as well, and this is rented to 3 people (nationalities unknown, but not Irish) for the last 3 months.
I've seen many people coming and going but i had not expected what i was about to hear.

To cut a long story short, the landlord was telling me that he was letting another house in the area and who turns up at the door to view the house but the 2 people who were renting the original house off ,who had not paid the previous 2 months rent as they had moved to a new job and had given a sob story with the tears and everything. The 2 months rent was due in a week.

He went mad and went over to the house to throw them out.

As he arrived people were running out the front door, back door all over the place. carrying bags and some with sleeping bags (the other people had phoned to warn them).

Then he found about some more sleeping bags and belongings all over the floor and even one in the shed where a bed was made, i sh!t you not. Obviously these belonged to the people who were not home.

The place was wrecked.

Says he's only renting to Irish people in future
Might be his add on Daft.

After discussing this hilarious story with other people i know who are into property, it seems this is a common con.

TCollins

antoinolachtnai wrote:

Well, the offending part of the ad is gone now.

If you don't give someone an apartment, you'd better have a good reason, same as with any service.

Surely they could come up with any reason they liked.
What if they didnt rent it to you because they dont like the smell of ya!
Is there a law against that i wonder?

antoinolachtnai

What does that prove about anything? So he got crap tenants?

Did he check references?

antoinolachtnai

TCollins wrote:

Surely they could come up with any reason they liked.
What if they didnt rent it to you because they dont like the smell of ya!
Is there a law against that i wonder?

I wouldn't advise anyone to go to the equality tribunal with that reason, unless they have five grand compensation to spare.

TCollins

antoinolachtnai wrote:

I wouldn't advise anyone to go to the equality tribunal with that reason, unless they have five grand compensation to spare.

Why not, just because its not PC to tell people they stink? You cant say to me you've never been sitting on a bus or train etc where you havent had to move because of a stink of BO
Seems to me this would be a valid reason to not rent a house to someone, even if not PC.

Its only an example of a reason not to let a place to someone thats not PC. It only came into my head because we rejected someone that came to rent a room in our rented house when we were students because the smell or her hurt our noses. Otherwise she would have been great. But noone wanted to live with a smelly girl. Should we have maybe had five grand in our pockets to pay at the equality tribunal?

antoinolachtnai

I'm not arguing about buses or trains. I'm telling you what is likely to happen if you end up in tribunal with a story like that.

TCollins

antoinolachtnai wrote:

I'm not arguing about buses or trains. I'm telling you what is likely to happen if you end up in tribunal with a story like that.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that if a person refuses to let a room to a person that stinks that they would lose a case on this? How do you know?

antoinolachtnai

I didn't say anything about renting a room.

I am telling you what would happen if you ended up at a tribunal with that as your only reason for not letting an apartment or house to a person.

TCollins

antoinolachtnai wrote:

I didn't say anything about renting a room.

I am telling you what would happen if you ended up at a tribunal with that as your only reason for not letting an apartment or house to a person.

It think it would be a valid reason, as would many more reasons. I would imagine it would be very difficult to get pulled up on equality charges when renting a house.

Possibly though if you write 'Irish Only' in the add you might be screwed.

RainyDay

antoinolachtnai wrote:

I wouldn't advise anyone to go to the equality tribunal with that reason, unless they have five grand compensation to spare.

Has the tribunal ever supported a discrimination claim based on grounds other than the nine grounds from the Equal Status Acts (which don't of course include smell)?

* Gender
* Marital status
* Family status
* Sexual orientation
* Religious belief
* Age
* Disability
* Race colour, nationality, ethnic or national origins
* Membership of the Traveller community

Del2005

antoinolachtnai wrote:

I'm not arguing about buses or trains. I'm telling you what is likely to happen if you end up in tribunal with a story like that.

Would it not be reasonable argument to say that if a person doesn't look after thenselves you have a serious doubt as to how they would look after your house? If a person doesn't care enough about themeslves to have a shower and use some smellies how would they treat a house they don't own.

lostexpectation

TCollins wrote:

Had an interesting conversation with my landlord last week.
He owns the 2-bed house a few doors down from me as well, and this is rented to 3 people (nationalities unknown, but not Irish) for the last 3 months.
I've seen many people coming and going but i had not expected what i was about to hear.

To cut a long story short, the landlord was telling me that he was letting another house in the area and who turns up at the door to view the house but the 2 people who were renting the original house off ,who had not paid the previous 2 months rent as they had moved to a new job and had given a sob story with the tears and everything. The 2 months rent was due in a week.

He went mad and went over to the house to throw them out.

As he arrived people were running out the front door, back door all over the place. carrying bags and some with sleeping bags (the other people had phoned to warn them).

Then he found about some more sleeping bags and belongings all over the floor and even one in the shed where a bed was made, i sh!t you not. Obviously these belonged to the people who were not home.

The place was wrecked.

Says he's only renting to Irish people in future
Might be his add on Daft.

After discussing this hilarious story with other people i know who are into property, it seems this is a common con.

oh yes because people come from eastern europe all the way over here to scam a shed to live in off us! or maybe their desperate, and Ireland is too expensive to live in.

Scamming a shed for bedroom a disgrace kick em all out. Scum

meglome

I'm not a fan of landlords as they've been having it their own way for a long time. But I'm in business myself so I don't like when people get ripped off. Before now you had some chance of tracking down an Irish person if they ripped you off but with non-nationals they can much more easily do a legger. The tenants in my block change all the time, I imagine it would be very difficult to keep track of them. If I was letting out a property I would want Irish people as they are less likely to rip me off and get away with it. I ran two internet cafes and my business depended on non-nationals so it isn't bigotry just practicality.

The_Conductor

lostexpectation wrote:

oh yes because people come from eastern europe all the way over here to scam a shed to live in off us! or maybe their desperate, and Ireland is too expensive to live in.

Scamming a shed for bedroom a disgrace kick em all out. Scum

Depends- lots of us have been in similar situations.
I had to do a years work experience as part of my primary degree. My weekly stipend didn't cover my bus trip home at the weekend, never mind accommodation and food. I camped out a lot and in the winter stayed in a shed (with the permission of the owner). I also lived in a barn in Denmark for a while (while working in a nearby garden centre as a student)

I am aware of several students on grants of 8k per annum doing similar in a few different locations around the country.....

In my case it saved a lot of money that I simply couldn't afford to pay at the time. Looking back, I was probably a bit insane to do it....... I shudder to think of it now......

Ireland doesn't have to be too expensive- maybe they just want to save their money so they can send it home- or put it towards another use. If they are willing to live in accommodation like that- and they are not being exploited, let them. However the landlord should not find out about it in the manner that the OP did- and indeed if he is familiar with the situation should not accept it.

TCollins

lostexpectation wrote:

oh yes because people come from eastern europe all the way over here to scam a shed to live in off us! or maybe their desperate, and Ireland is too expensive to live in.

Scamming a shed for bedroom a disgrace kick em all out. Scum

Where did i say they were Eastern European?

Why did you pick eastern European out of all the nationalities you could have chosen from?

Is it because you somehow expect this behavior of Eastern Europeans yourself

That seems a little bit racist on your part to me

the_syco

A Random Walk wrote:

It's not a private home it's a house for rent. A publican can't exclude people from his pub just because it's "his".

Actually, he can. Management have the right to refuse entry.

=-=

Females only.

No 1st years.

No welfare cheques.

All discrimination. Only one is "wrong", but how can someone on a welfare cheque live on the remaining €10 for a week (after the rest is spent on rent)? I know: eat your food!

TCollins wrote:

Why not, just because its not PC to tell people they stink? You cant say to me you've never been sitting on a bus or train etc where you havent had to move because of a stink of BO

Parents rented out the spare room once. Never again. The b|tch who rented it never washed, stank all the time, and when she left, we had to air the room out for two weeks!

=-=

I know a few chinese who are live in the one house. The landlord is cool with it: he gets the rent, so he doesn't mind, but the post above: they rented the place out, but never paid the landlord rent. He has a right to be angry about it.

=-=

I'd like to see a man win a discrimination case against a "female's only" rule. Ain't going to happen, though.

luckat

Yes it's racist. Yes it's wrong.

Victor

A girl I used to work with did a J1 in Cape Cod. 23 of them in the house until the Health Inspector called. I think only 15 were allowed stay based on number of rooms, bathrooms, etc.

Brooklyn74

Victor wrote:

A girl I used to work with did a J1 in Cape Cod. 23 of them in the house until the Health Inspector called. I think only 15 were allowed stay based on number of rooms, bathrooms, etc.

Yeah when I lived in San Francisco the J1s were notorious for overcrowding and tearing their accommodation to shreds! A lot of landlords wouldn't rent to them at all!

Judes

Don't shoot me for this one - but I've got to agree with the advert - in some ways! I live in a large house and let out two rooms in a house share scenario. Each time I let out the rooms to our international visitors I end up experiencing problems re. the fact that they agree to the "house rules" i.e. guests staying over, cleaning rota, paying bills on certain dates etc. and then refuse to abide by them. I'm at the stage now where I have 2 lads that I will have to ask to leave - because they will not pull their weight, re. cleaning etc. they are driving me mad because no matter what I ask of them - nicely - jokingly - seriously - verbally - written notes etc. I just feel they are laughing at me. A friend of mine is now going to translate a note into German for me to hang above the toilet - so they "may" just finally understand that hygiene standards must be abided by. I really think when they're trying to find accommodation they'll verbally agree to anything but when they move in it's a different story. I've learnt a valuable lesson though - in future I will have a written agreement I will ask people to sign re. the "house rules" .

antoinolachtnai

So is the problem

(a) that they are dirty and slovenly

or

(b) that they are foreign?

Anyway, your situation is a house share, it's a different situation from the advertisement referred to by the OP.

Judes

My point is that in 5 years my experience of "house sharing" has been no big issues with Irish lodgers. But I've had HUGE problems with foreign lodgers. That is all that I am saying.

I know my comments don't apply as the legalities re. letting out a house/apartment is a different rental scenario to house sharing.

I'm just stating that I can understand if a landlord through either renting out rooms/properties/sharing has had a bad experience - then they're going to be more protective of themselves and their property re. who they are letting to.

I've been given Workplace references in the past - only to discover later the workplace Manager giving the reference was a personal friend of the lodger, from their home town. How honest was that referral?!*

Anyway, by the looks of things I'll have my next advert on Daft again soon - and I may be even more choosey with my wording! I may be viewed as sexist/racist/student'ist/unemployed'ist - at this stage all I want is a couple of lodgers who are a bit more respectful to their landlord/house-share mate!