Argentina v Ireland (8pm RTE2)

zAbbo

thebaz wrote:

I think Bowe is very average , and would hope he doesn't make the squad

He's been playing excellently for a poor Ulster side, and has been their best back, He deserves a shot at a place, but that seems unlikely considering Carneys arrival, Kearneys utility, and Luke Fitz's raw speed.

razorblunt

I wouldn't get too carried away about the scrum being solid, it was barely even an "A" argentinean front row so they should have and did cope well. Thought Best played very well his aggresion is like Alan Quinlan but he doesnt give away half of the stupid penalties that Quinlan goes through in a game.

The 2nd rows were too quiet in the loose I thought and Mick O'Driscoll made more carries in the last 10 minutes than Hogan and Kelly did all game I reckon.

Sangre

razorblunt wrote:

I wouldn't get too carried away about the scrum being solid, it was barely even an "A" argentinean front row so they should have and did cope well.

Why should an A Irish front row cope well with an A Argentina front row?

zAbbo

Sangre wrote:

Why should an A Irish front row cope well with an A Argentina front row?

Especially in the Argies backyard !

Credit to the front row.

I've got the game here, and will re-watch it later in the week twas an exciting game

Nukem

Felt Ireland were hard done by - Ireland played majority of the rugby.

Some good passages of play, thought Heaslips support running was excellent. Although sometimes i thought the single player took a a bit much on (notably Flannery getting isolated and hanging onto the ball). Boss didnt direct the troops as much as i thought, Reddan would make the difference.

Front row played very well IMO.Like to see Bracken have a run as well with Buckley just to see how the scrum would fair with two massive props like that.
I think it showed that Ireland have quaility players coming through and blooding them on tours like this is no bad thing!

bugler

The front rows' performance was the big positive out of the game. Ayerza is a class prop and seeing both Best and Buckley do well against him wasn't something I expected. Even with two TH it was solid.

That said I don't believe Young or Best are currently the answer to the scrum problem for the first team. Young had his chance against Australia and didn't deliver. Best is the most likely to feature anytime soon - I'm assuming Hayes will retire from the international scene after the WC and Best is his natural successor as things stand now. He is a decent prop and can still improve.

Things are looking a bit better in prop terms. Not that long ago TH was the major crisis position - now some contenders are emerging. Ross, Best, Buckley all could potentially become good international props. Obviously they all can't - but with regular gametime for Munster Buckley will be in the international set up. Ross will probably need to come home to get a shot - not sure why Leinster didn't try to sign him.

As for LH - things are not as optimistic. Best can do a decent job of covering there, and he may end up there as a regular starter for Ireland depending on the TH situation. Young still has plenty of time to mature and may well come good, and he can also cover both sides.

Daragh Hurley at Munster has shown lots of promise but his fate would seem to be tied to that of Marcus Horan - if he can't usurp him at Munster then it won't happen internationally. And I don't see DK going for youth.

Cian Healy is promising too, but I'm sure it will be a couple of seasons before he breaks through.

Linford

I thought Ireland did well. If Contemponi had not been playing Ireland may have gotten a big score against Argentina. Argentina had nothing else in the backs.

I thought Bowe was average and although Carney was given very little to do, he made some excellant tackles and took his try brilliantly, if it comes down to Bowe and Carney for the WC squad, Carney will make it.

Boss didn't play well and Redden has to challenge his position for the 22 at the WC.

Flannery is the best hooker in Ireland and he showed it.

O'Kelly played very well, and seemed very fit, he should make the WC squad and probably the bench and then retire from International rugby after the WC.

Best (no. 6) had a good game and will be in the battle for the team.

Heaslip had a great game.

The centres were disapointing.

Its a pity Paddy Wallace's kicking isn't a bit better, he played well.

nacho libre

Laslo wrote:

Great stuff? Positive loss? Pathetic performance IMO.

Obviously while it was disappointing to lose there are many positives to be taken from the game. Games like these are about experimentation, so really the scoreline isn't the critical factor, it's about assessing the performance of fringe players ahead of the World Cup. I think based on this performance Ireland are in good shape except in one key position. It's no good having the forwards doing a ton of work if we don't have a person adept at finding good field position and slotting over the penalties. So say your prayers O'Gara doesn't get injured.
I thought Carney did particularly well. Heaslip, Best and Flannery did well too. Boss in my opinion didn't do enough in this game to oust Stringer in the starting lineup for the World Cup. Barring injury i think the first team should have nothing to fear from Argentina come September.

zAbbo

Jeremy Staunton has flown out and meets up later today with the squad.

Wallace is rated at 50-50, but I doubt he'll be playing.

Trimble and Bowe are carrying knocks, expect Luke Fitz to get the nod at 11, with Carney staying at 14, and possibly Barry Murphy coming in at 13, and Geordie Murphy at FB.

A complete back-row change around as well, with Jennings, Quinlan and Ferris coming in, with Leo Cullen in instead of Hogan, and Reddan/Staunton as the half backs.

I'd like to see Buckley starting as well.

LoLth

Sorry if its been mentioned already (looked but amy have missed it) :

3 things I got from this game:

1. we can make good breaks and adapt very well to the game the other team plays. We did well at closing down potential breaks. That last argie drop was unfortunate - anyone see how they got the ball out of a lost lineout?

2. Our lineouts have come on in leaps and bounds. near the end there we did fantastically well in lineout turnovers

3. that final drop goal. I know they were puching for better position (and did a great drive) but it struck me as very similar in planning to the italian game in that we could have taken that kick a good bit earlier with a lot more space around the kicker. Was the ground made up worth the pressure it put the kicker under ? Or should we have just kicked from further out and let accuracy make up for distance? was it a deliberate attempt to force a penalty ?

There are improvements that can be made but all in all, despite the loss, I'm liking the look of the squad that played on saturday.

Nukem

Player

15 - Geordan Murphy

14 - Brian Carney

13 - Barry Murphy

12 - Gavin Duffy

11 - Rob Kearney

10 - Jeremy Staunton

9 - Eoin Reddan

1 - Bryan Young

2 - Frankie Sheahan

3 - Simon Best Captain

4 - Leo Cullen

5 - Mick O’Driscoll

6 - Alan Quinlan

7 - Shane Jennings

8 - Stephen Ferris


Replacements:
16 - Bernard Jackman

17 - Tony Buckley

18 - Malcolm O’Kelly

19 - Neil Best

20 - Isaac Boss

21 - Kieran Lewis

22 - Luke Fitzgerald


Not considered due to injury:
Tommy Bowe {shoulder}
Andrew Trimble {ankle}
Paddy Wallace {knee}

Did Peter Bracken travel in the end? How come he didnt get a run out?
Lineout looks to be all ours with Driscoll and Cullen. Scrum will be interesting and with Jennings and Quinlan i reckon we will be a bit more physical at the breakdown. Reddan and Stauton (to stake their claim, I hope)

bugler

Bracken is out there - but didn't make the bench for either test.

Simply put - he's too far down the pecking order. In TH terms Hayes, Best, Buckley would appear to be the pecking order. Buckley will need to continue good form to confirm this though.

The 4 WC props will surely be Young (can cover both sides), Best (likewise), Horan (LH only) and Hayes (TH only).

Bracken isn't really helped by the fact he can't cover LH. I don't rate him to be honest, gives away an awful lot of free kicks and penalties at the scrum.

Sangre

I'm hoping for some Kearnage on the wing!

Diamondmaker

Sangre wrote:

I'm hoping for some Kearnage on the wing!

No Kearnage AND Carnage !

Laslo

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

A marvellous rejoinder. I've played for 20 years and watched for longer. Ireland, at this stage, should really be winning these tests. Yes we did well up front but our backs were an embarrassing shambles. Just like tonight by the looks of it. I pray things get better.