patch 2.1

Binomate

Macros42 wrote:

Huh? How can you summon it in the first place?

Respec with the felguard out.

rainbow kirby

anonymous_joe wrote:

All our 'dins have level 70 chars anyway, so none of them are too heartbroken. We hadn't really gotten used to using 'em as it is, so won't effect the guild much.

My pally is my only 70 Might have to get to work on that gnome rogue after the exams. Farming as holy/prot sucks anyway, it'd be nice to be able to do my farming on a DPS class.

anonymous_joe

Go Combat Fists/Swords then, farming as a dagger rogue is a pain.

Jim

I seriously think people are over exageratting how bad the nerf is. You can't possibly consider changing mains over it?

rainbow kirby

If it's *really* bad and horrible, I'll either make my rogue my main or reroll draenei shadow priest.

Fremen

Bought myself a post-exams copy of TBC today and logged in: the game is unplayable in shattrah because of lag! There was a quest which involved following some guy around while he talked about the city. I couldn't complete it because I couldn't keep up with him from the lag.

Is this normal for shattrah, or is it maybe because 2.1 went live?

I'm running a low end-ish system, 512 megs of ram and a pentium M 1.73Ghz processor, with a Nvidia 6200 graphics card. Orgrimmar was pretty laggy in the past sometimes, but this is making the game unplayable...

EDIT: it's actually not lag as such, just insanely low frames per second. Like 1 or 2...

Kiith

Fremen wrote:

Bought myself a post-exams copy of TBC today and logged in: the game is unplayable in shattrah because of lag! There was a quest which involved following some guy around while he talked about the city. I couldn't complete it because I couldn't keep up with him from the lag.

Is this normal for shattrah, or is it maybe because 2.1 went live?

I'm running a low end-ish system, 512 megs of ram and a pentium M 1.73Ghz processor, with a Nvidia 6200 graphics card. Orgrimmar was pretty laggy in the past sometimes, but this is making the game unplayable...

EDIT: it's actually not lag as such, just insanely low frames per second. Like 1 or 2...

Its the RAM you have. I used to have 512mb ram, and it ran like **** in Ironforge.

DRakE

i'll be promptly respeccing my rogue back to combat fists now that i dont have to spec RUBBISH shadow step to sap in heroics and stealth the chess event :P

damn them nerfing that chess event, never got my shoulders or belt :<

OctavarIan

rainbow kirby wrote:

Not looking forward to seeing exactly how bad the pally nerf is

Well perk up because it's really not that bad at all. Granted it's still a nerf, but it's not the apocalypse it was made out to be. People who call it quits with their pally mains is good riddance imo. If you browse the official forums though I can understand why you'd think that because all they ever do over there is whine about EVERYTHING. Not to mention the majority of posters are either 12 year olds or have the mentality of one.

Orion

anonymous_joe wrote:

Go Combat Fists/Swords then, farming as a dagger rogue is a pain.

I don't agree. Farming is a pain anyway. But I've been a dagger rogue for over a year now - and until last month was hemo spec. Can still farm effectively. Combat dagger spec now and it's easier ofc but daggers FTW

Ivan

OctavarIan wrote:

Well perk up because it's really not that bad at all. Granted it's still a nerf, but it's not the apocalypse it was made out to be. People who call it quits with their pally mains is good riddance imo. If you browse the official forums though I can understand why you'd think that because all they ever do over there is whine about EVERYTHING. Not to mention the majority of posters are either 12 year olds or have the mentality of one.

/sigh

Another paladin expert huh?

And precisely how many paladins do you have?

Aside from the horrendous buffing system, paladins have one thing going for them. They are the single greatest single-target healers in the game. Of course this is cause for alarm when the "best healers", priests, are being out-healed by Paladins.

Of course no one bothers to complain that shadow priests are ridiculous in raid environments.

Nerf to Spiiritual attunement combined with the nerf to Illumination is a huge blow to the only seriously viable, end game raiding spec paladins have.

It seems to me that other classes see paladins as overpowered, because, I guess in a way, we were.

We are the best single target healers in the game and wear plate.

Since the majority of encounters make these 2 key features very powerful, we're overpowered.

Ignore the fact that our dps is laughed at by every other class, including the "main healing class".
Ignore the fact that this ability has been this way for a year and a half.

Ignore the fact that Blizzard have designed our gear around spell crit, to take full advantage of one single talent which makes our whole class useful. Not to mention the fact that most of our other talents are based around spell crit and this one talent.

Its the fact that Blizzard is taking with one hand and giving us the finger with the other.

I'm angry, most paladins are angry. Including the 12 year old ones and those with the mentality of one, because lets face it, who else would play this broken class?

I'm going to do Gruul tomorrow with my paladin and if things go exactly as I expect them to, I think I'll be playing my druid or my mage to 70 instead.

P.s.

People who call it quits with their pally mains is good riddance imo.

Dont suppose you've gone to the Tseric school of class feedback, by any chance?

Binomate

Downed Gruul today, first time raiding in about 2 weeks due to exams. After playing on the new patch seriously for the first time this evenin' it's clear that the Paladin nerf hit hard. My robes (masquerade gown) got fixed so that they have a 10% proc rate as originally intended, so there's no doubt they had some kind of influence in this as well since they were procing like nobody's business.

Our healing meters usually end up having a priest first, paladin second, priest third, paladin fourth, and maybe a shaman or a druid last, all with more or less the same amount of overhealing (around 5%). Today it was two priests in first and second place, a paladin third, a shaman fourth and another paladin. I finished the fight with about three quarters mana, all the paladins had absolutly none.

anonymous_joe

Macros42 wrote:

I don't agree. Farming is a pain anyway. But I've been a dagger rogue for over a year now - and until last month was hemo spec. Can still farm effectively. Combat dagger spec now and it's easier ofc but daggers FTW

Didn't say you couldn't farm (though try Muti farming mobs that are poison immune... *sigh*) rather, that it's significantly easier if you're just gonna spam SS and SnD. Lethally fast, and you've got blade flurry AR and evasion to take down big groups when you have to.

Matt Simis

Ivan wrote:

/sigh

Aside from the horrendous buffing system, paladins have one thing going for them. They are the single greatest single-target healers in the game. Of course this is cause for alarm when the "best healers", priests, are being out-healed by Paladins.
<snip>

I'm angry, most paladins are angry. Including the 12 year old ones and those with the mentality of one, because lets face it, who else would play this broken class?

I'm going to do Gruul tomorrow with my paladin and if things go exactly as I expect them to, I think I'll be playing my druid or my mage to 70 instead.

Jumping in from the sidelines.. Im leveling a BE Pally (on Deathwing) now. Ive wanted to play Pally for ages primarily as I thought (and still think) they have the best buffs and all round party support in the game (obviously from reading, as Im Horde). My main is a fairly decked lvl70 Warlock and there were many times that buffs and party support were most appreciated and made the Win-or-Loose flip of the coin.

As Horde only recently got Paladins, the feeling that Pallies were nerfed severely isnt really felt on that side (as they are hardly aquainted with them to begin with). However on the Paladin WoW (Europe) forum there are far more people talking about the issues with tanking ability (and the bit of a buff Protection got) than you guys here (which are mainly concerned with Healing)? Have to say, wasnt really all that interested in the Healing aspect of Paladins myself, Im not taking the piss, but honestly I would have rolled a priest to do that, a class clearly defined by healing.


Matt

Jim

If you want to tank why didn't you roll a Warrior?

Matt Simis

Jimeatsmenu wrote:

If you want to tank why didn't you roll a Warrior?

I never said I want to tank..!? Infact the first line in my post explains why Im trying out the Pally class (lvl53 now).
I said lots of Paladins on the WoW forums bitch about lack of tanking ability while you guys bitch about lack of healing ability. It was an observation and I was just wondering why limit yourself to 1 ability?

Since these are singular abilities that will likely always be better served by more uni-purpose classes, perhaps the issue is WoW cant deal with Hybrids.

Ivan

Thats the point isnt it?

Hybrids are broken, but you should have known. If you wanted to heal, then why didnt you just roll a priest? If you wanted to tank why didnt you roll a warrior? If you wanted to dps, hah, why didnt you roll a one-eyed, paraplegic monkey?

This age old argument of "yes, your class is broken. But you should have known, why didnt you just roll a true/parent class?".

Keep in mind that warriors are simultaneously great tanks and great dps. Priests are great healers and great dps.

But only when you spec for it and you have the gear for it.
Plus we arent just bitching about healing, we've just grown accustomed to the fact that paladins pretty much suck at everything else, except healing which we were great at. Now they have butchered that too.

rainbow kirby

Matt Simis wrote:

I said lots of Paladins on the WoW forums bitch about lack of tanking ability while you guys bitch about lack of healing ability. It was an observation and I was just wondering why limit yourself to 1 ability?

To me, there are no true hybrids, only selective specialists. By speccing holy/prot 41/20/0 and by wearing healing gear I pretty much sacrifice my ability to do anything else but heal. With appropriate gear and spec we can fill other roles too, but if you spec 0/49/12 to tank and wear tanking gear at a raid-tank level, you'll go OOM in 5-7 HL casts if you have to heal.

Jim

rainbow kirby wrote:

To me, there are no true hybrids

Drooids...

Apologises to Matt, misread your post. And just as a note I agree with everything you said.

Jim

After testing in a few 5 mans and in Gruul's Lair I can honestly say that this nerf isn't nearly as bad as everyone has made it out to be and rerolling or quitting over it is just damn stupid imo.

Matt Simis

Jimeatsmenu wrote:

Drooids...

Apologises to Matt, misread your post. And just as a note I agree with everything you said.

Hopefully I will have fun upto 70 though, I real everyone likes Paladins in the early 5mans etc. :eek:

rainbow kirby

Jimeatsmenu wrote:

After testing in a few 5 mans and in Gruul's Lair I can honestly say that this nerf isn't nearly as bad as everyone has made it out to be and rerolling or quitting over it is just damn stupid imo.

*curls invisible beard*

There's only one thing to do: test it out. My gear sucks though, only 1150 +heal

cance

rainbow kirby wrote:

*curls invisible beard*

There's only one thing to do: test it out. My gear sucks though, only 1150 +heal

our loladins arent suffering really, from what i have seen in kara this week, (attumen to prince) with our usual build of resto druid shad+holy priest and pala they (all healers) are alot more mana efficient and nobody is dieing, so the nerf wasnt that bad.

Our paladin has great gear tho, think hes around 13-1400 but i could be mistaken.

rainbow kirby

Most people in Karazhan gear don't have a problem because the gear got buffed at the same time as the nerf. I don't have any raid epics.

Jim

Epic gear you get is there to match the new pve encounters you will face. A nerf will still effect you on whatever level of encounter you're on.

BKtje

Keep in mind that warriors are simultaneously great tanks and great dps.
Priests are great healers and great dps.

Simultaneous? Have you ever seen damage the output of a prot warrior? Its negligible. Have you ever seen the threat output of a arm/fury warrior? Also negligble when compared to any high dmg output/decently geared player.

On another note, the rampage build is now officially useless. Its dps output is miniscule, only slightly more than a prot warrior(prot war tanking, fury warrior not). On the other hand the 31/30 build is still unbelievably strong to dps with, especially when taking 2 or more mobs.
I been farming consortium rep with it and when taking 2 mobs at once my average dps is about 800 with max being around 1100. The fury build on the other hand was about 400 on average with it maxing out about 650.
They nerfed the fury tree in an attempt to nerf 31/30 warriors (cos they/we need it somewhat) and ended up not really affected that build but making fury duel wield completly useless. Well done blizz.

cance

rainbow kirby wrote:

Most people in Karazhan gear don't have a problem because the gear got buffed at the same time as the nerf. I don't have any raid epics.

it wont take you long, We dont have any shammies yet in our guild (none on the server that werent guild alts atm) so any plate/chain that dropped was instantly the pala's, hes all kitted out now.

Horsefumbler

<

---

elemental Shaman

the tears have dried up now...

As long as i've got a shadowpriest I won't go oom and i dont even need to pot. I just dont stay at 100% any more

cance

the fear nerf really, really hurts, it breaks like crazy.

affliction warlocks are like jailbate now.

Woden

B-K-DzR wrote:

On another note, the rampage build is now officially useless. Its dps output is miniscule, only slightly more than a prot warrior(prot war tanking, fury warrior not). On the other hand the 31/30 build is still unbelievably strong to dps with, especially when taking 2 or more mobs.
I been farming consortium rep with it and when taking 2 mobs at once my average dps is about 800 with max being around 1100. The fury build on the other hand was about 400 on average with it maxing out about 650.
They nerfed the fury tree in an attempt to nerf 31/30 warriors (cos they/we need it somewhat) and ended up not really affected that build but making fury duel wield completly useless. Well done blizz.

I disagree with this. Fury dps is top notch. It matters little for a pve fury warrior that enrage doesn't stack with deathwish as they don't get hit anyway. 5% fluffy is easily made up by the changes to glancing blows with a significant percentage of a fury warriors damage being white.

Here's a well geared fury warrior prior to the flurry change.
http://paparazzi.h4x.no/wws/solarion/

That warrior is 17/44/0 a pretty typical rampage build

Your example above includes multiple mobs where ofc a arms build will shine with sweeping strikes, cleave, whirlwind. Its a different story single target.

On the holy paladin note i've played Jimeatsmenu paladin in raids both prior to and after the patch. The change to illumination seemed to easily covered by a slightly higher mana pot consumption. no biggie.