The Compact

strychnine

LOTP wrote:

I missed this little nugget first time around....tell me, how big an audience does there have to be before it is wrong?

And where exactly is it wrong? Factually i mean.

Baggly

strychnine wrote:

Im not saying the compact is a marvellous publication, the number of grammatical and spelling errors in it is appalling. The point im making is that this guy has every right to have his opinion and voice it. If you agree with him but think his writing is appalling then get involved with the magazine and suggest that you can do better. If you disagree with him then get involved and ask for your own column. Its very easy to sit back and criticise, if you dont like it get up off your ass and change it.

Its fun too. It remarkable how much you sound like a socialist in that little paragraph there. The fact of the matter is that DIT is such a whole pile of bureaucratic nonsense that to get involved at any level where it would matter, you would have to start weaseling your way to the top two years ago. I did get involved in DIT and DITSU in my first two years before realising what a whole load of pants the whole recreational side of the college is.

But returning to point...just as he has a right to complain about whatever takes his fancy once a month, so too can we complain about his doing so. another point is that while i am not, and have never claimed to be, an editor, i still know what i do and do not like...i do not like his articles for their style of writing.

Finally, i dont see you running to the powers that be with a dictionary in one hand and a determined gleam in your eyes....dont tell me/us to get involved...the day the participative running of the college paper was taken away from students was the day i stopped complaining as if i could be involved and started commenting just like the majority of people who have posted on this thread.

Are you sure you arent the offending author?

strychnine wrote:

And where exactly is it wrong? Factually i mean.

I was referencing the imbalance of opinions....how big or small a publication does it have to be before the imbalance of opinions is wrong....and yes, im well aware socialist publications are the same, but FFS, just because one person does something wrong, it doesnt mean we should all do the same.

strychnine

LOTP wrote:

dont tell me/us to get involved...the day the participative running of the college paper was taken away from students was the day i stopped complaining as if i could be involved and started commenting just like the majority of people who have posted on this thread.

eh, is it not the case that all the contributors are students of DIT? Is it not the case that you HAVE to be a student to be involved!!!!?

As for rest of your rant, well, thats your opinion of DIT.

Baggly

strychnine wrote:

eh, is it not the case that all the contributors are students of DIT? Is it not the case that you HAVE to be a student to be involved!!!!?

You have a serious case of the selective reading my friend. I said running of the paper. while students might write it, editors change it and decide what gets in.

strychnine

LOTP wrote:

You have a serious case of the selective reading my friend. I said running of the paper. while students might write it, editors change it and decide what gets in.

Well i dont think its a case of where they have so much to squeeze in that stuff gets left out and they have to measure column inches and pixel counts.

Also, if you take a look at the picture of the hairy and unshaven editor guy, he doesn't strike me as a straight laced advocate of far right conservative policies. I may be wrong though, my own hair could do with a chop.

Ill say it again, if you dont like it, write to them say you can do a better job.

Frankiestylee

The Compact is the only widely available publication for DIT funded by DIT (There are others produced as part of the final year Journalism course but those only appear once and they never seem to be around).
The editor is not a student of DIT and is employed by the SU. While I believe it's good that the SU acknowledges the effort it takes to edit a magazine, I don't believe it needs to be a post-college job, look at all the other third level publications, especially UCD and Trinity... they produce numerous high quality magazines without paid employees. The students do it themselves and to an extremely high standard.
I'm not around college this year so I don't know what the current editor is like, but I know last years editor was an absolute joke, not only could he not write and edit, he was also horribly biased towards the SU, so much so that I actually did an article on it :P
As for trying to get involved, when the compact first started up I offered my services and I didn't even get a reply to my email. This was before I found out how the SU had messed around with the DIT Independant and screwed alot of people over. Last year I tried to start up an independant magazine for DIT, but the lack of available capital and eventually the lack of interest from my peers made me give it up. I tried doing it through the Journalism society but there was a reluctance to fund it from the SU or whoever deals out the money. So please don't try to use the whole "Its very easy to sit back and criticise, if you dont like it get up off your ass and change it." thing on me, it's very easy to sit back and defend something with a whole lot of ignorance.

One issue of a response does not a balanced magazine make. You're right, The Compact is not a broadsheet, which is why it's even MORE important that it gives a balanced opinion. People buy national papers, people choose what they want to read by putting their money on the counter... it's a fact that most national newspapers have a less then balanced opinion on certain things, that's why some people prefer one newspaper to another, the same goes with most publications... but the Compact is paid for by the students of DIT without any choice in the matter so they deserve a balanced magazine, either that or fund a rival magazine that can act as the Compact's watchdog and vice versa.

strychnine

I like the way you've twisted this around to be all about how bad the compact is, the thread was started on the basis of a discussion of how bad Kevin Byrne is. Obviously from what your saying there are major problems at the heart of the management of communications in DITSU. I preffered the DIT independent myself, the compact is too glossy and is no doubt more expensive to print on that glossy paper. Also, the DIT independent did have a letters section, something the compact does not.

I was unaware that you had applied to help in the compact, and if indeed there is a bias towards one political ideology then this is entirely unacceptable. However, as i said, Kevin Byrne has every right to view his opinions, its up to the management of the compact/DITSU to ensure there is balance, not Kevin Byrne.

As i said, the thread started on the basis of people not liking Kevin Byrne, perhaps there real gripe should be with the editor.

Baggly

Nothing has been twisted, we are responding to your comments....seriously, you are fighting a losing battle here. Just because people have a problem with the compact and the article does not mean both are not sh!tty. im done with this arguement. you seem to be a vested interest who selectively reads and will not look at the other side of the coin.

I dont like the mans articles, and am expressing that view HERE.

Mellor

strychnine wrote:

Its like college. If you have two people, one who works hard, goes to every lecture, studies for exams and hands in assignments on time. And the other who doesn't give sh*it, skips classes, doesn't study and fails exams. Surely at the end of the four years the guy who has worked hard deserves the better degree and a better job. In socialist ideology, they are both equal. I just dont think thats very fair.

No, thats not true. in all ideologies. One student gets a degree, the other gets a chance to try again. i agree our system is better, but it is still full of holes. The effort people put in in college doesn't always relate to their ability in the workplace. Some people work well in the college mind set, but need to put alot of effort in. Some people do ok with no effort. They have more ability and would be better for a job.

Capitalism is the most equal and non discriminatory system there is. Under capitalism it is irrelevant what background a person comes from, what matters solely is the ability of the person to work hard and perform at what they do. Again, ill go back to the college analogy. The free third level education system we have in this country allows someone from any socio-economic background to enter college and be treated as a complete equal. The only barrier to entry is ability.

I don't think this is a good example. It is using Ireland as an example of a capitalist country. We are part capitalist. In a fully capitalist country (america being probably the closest) there wouldn't be a free third level education system. You could have all the ability, and be capable of twice the work or peers, but if you can afford to go to college you can. You are at a lose due to capitalism. Your only option is to get a scholarship, and thats hardly fits into your ideal of the most equal and non discriminatory system there is

Frankiestylee

strychnine wrote:

I like the way you've twisted this around to be all about how bad the compact is, the thread was started on the basis of a discussion of how bad Kevin Byrne is. Obviously from what your saying there are major problems at the heart of the management of communications in DITSU. I preffered the DIT independent myself, the compact is too glossy and is no doubt more expensive to print on that glossy paper. Also, the DIT independent did have a letters section, something the compact does not.

I was unaware that you had applied to help in the compact, and if indeed there is a bias towards one political ideology then this is entirely unacceptable. However, as i said, Kevin Byrne has every right to view his opinions, its up to the management of the compact/DITSU to ensure there is balance, not Kevin Byrne.

As i said, the thread started on the basis of people not liking Kevin Byrne, perhaps there real gripe should be with the editor.

The title of the thread is The Compact, the guy writes for the Compact... a problem with the writer is a problem with the compact. The problem is ultimately with the editor because by the sounds of things he allowed an unskilled and often ignorant (I'm going from others posts) writer to have a column.
You say it's not up to Kevin Byrne to ensure there is a balance, yet it IS expected of people writing for such publications that they tackle such topics objectively. You are expected to have a view, but you're also expected to be objective.

strychnine

To be honest Frankistylee, it sounds like you havent read any of the articles, so "going on other peoples posts" to form an opinion of him is a bit foolish.

If you had read his last article (the basis of this entire thread) then you would see that he talked about how the conservative right in this country has done a lot to try to alleviate poverty, most notably by raising the minimum wage. He also talks about how the right brought in bin charges and plastic bag levies which have resulted in a massive increase in recycling.

Anyway im done with this discussion because theres no point in debating with people when they havent even bothered to read the article and just jump on the bandwagon for the sake of it. People are entitled to have their opinion, i respect that, i think he presents some compelling arguments that are well balanced and well written. I think that his arguments are very hard to counteract, and i know that bugs the hell of left leaning people.

Another final point ill make is that the basis of this latest article is about student life, and how the facts are there to show that socialists have done very little to improve our lot. The compact is a student magazine, he is a student, he writes about student life and how it can and has been improved. How anyone can say he is not qualified to write in this publication is beyond me, but it makes more sense when i learn some people here havent read his articles!

Anyway, ill finish up by doing what no one else has done so far on this thread, quote the damn article.

"The point im making is the two parties who socialists have a habit of degradingly referring to as "right wing parties" have done far more for us students and the poorest people in this country than the socialists could ever hope to do."

Baggly

For i think the fourth time, ill point out the basis of the thread is the compact itself as a publication, not his articles.

The point i am making, and please pay attention to the next line, is:

If the compact insists on giving this guy an article, which they have every right to do, it would make sense to give someone from the opposing side the chance to rebut.

Does this happen? NO. instead, you have three seperately related articles on the same page....which no variety of opinions on any one topic.

While some people may have jumped on a bandwagon here, they most certainly are not wrong in my opinion, while you seem to have backed yourself into a corner, picked a point you like and are not willing to debate the issue at hand.

Could someone please lock this thread before he hurts himself.

melekalikimaka

indeed this is going on a bit but to be fair its not quite out of hand yet, maybe a closing arguement from the afflicted parties then locky locky. or else at bout 2o'clock

Frankiestylee

Just to jump in before anyone goes locky locky... the DIT forum is hardly a fast moving place and I think killing a bit of college related debate is a bit poor form.


And now onto the reply...

Yes Strychnine I haven't read the article, I haven't fed that fact at any stage, but I'm not commenting on the specifics of this guy, you're arguing generalities and broad sweeping comments, I'm just explaining that it is possible for the Kevin Bryne to be unsuitable for the job, to be a poor writer because of the way he gets his message across etc. I haven't read the guys writing, I never said for certain that he was a bad writer, i just argued your view that went along the lines of "it's his opinion so it can't be invalid" kinda.
You've made big sweeping statements about various things (including what a journalist is) so unless you want to confine your arguements to the exact text of Kevin Bryne's articles, please don't try to shut me down for simply repying. If you really really want me to get a copy of the magazine and go through it word for word and possibly pick it apart, then I will, and I'm very good at doing it, but I don't think that's necessary to argue the points that are being made.

melekalikimaka

hummm, just no getting insulty insulty at anyone directly, this forum is aweful busy for a change thanks to this, I actually feel like a mod, sadly no opinions on the topic