Really overpriced areas.

iguana

Before I de-rail the bubble-burst thread (like that could happen:rolleyes: ) I thought I start a specific thread for this subject. Most people agree that prices in Ireland are over-priced. And to my mind most areas of Dublin should really be about 30-50% cheaper. But there are some areas, like Ranelagh and Ballsbridge which would need to fall by about 80% for a family house to be affordable to even the relatively wealthy. So which places in the country really baffle you by the cost of houses, which for some reason are even so much higher than the rest of the market?

For me it's Mount Merrion, where a 3-bed semi can cost as much as €1.7m. While it's a perfectly nice suburb, with some perfectly nice houses I just don't get what is attracting millionaires. It has no real "village heart," it's not that close to the city centre, it's not that close to the sea and it's not that close to the mountains. It's sort of right in the middle of the three, but close enough to neither for them to count as an attraction.

seamus

There are a couple of key areas that are way overpriced, piggybacking on the expensiveness of adjacent areas - Templeogue & Kimmage, piggybacking on D6W (D6W is also massively overpriced). You can buy a house about half a mile away in Walkinstown, for about half the price of one in Templeogue. Firhouse, piggybacking on D16. Again, you can buy a house with better infrastructure and more land in Old Bawn or Tallaght for less than Firhouse. Whitechurch, Carrickmines, Palmerstown, and the North Quays (up near the point) are also overpriced, given the availability of cheaper/better property in the surrounding areas.

joemc99

Not sure what you are getting at here....

Houses are more expensive than in other areas as they are more desirable areas to live in. Mt Merrion/Ballsbridge is on of the top places to live in the country, and you are going to have to pay for that.....

Likewise, you cannot compare Templeogue to Walkinstown, its like comparing a BMW to a fiat punto, they are both cars, but one is better than the other......

Again, houses are only worth what people are willing to pay for them, better areas get better prices.

iguana

joemc99 wrote:

Not sure what you are getting at here....

Houses are more expensive than in other areas as they are more desirable areas to live in. Mt Merrion/Ballsbridge is on of the top places to live in the country, and you are going to have to pay for that.....

My question is why is Mt Merrion so desirable? Ballsbridge is central to the city, has a nice central area full of nice restaurants, bars and cafes. And has some of the most beautiful architecture in the city. I can understand why people with millions are attracted to the area.

Mt Merrion has none of these things. It is essentially a nice but dull suburb, yet prices are on par with Ballsbridge and Ranelagh. I can see why people would like the area but not why they are paying millions to live there.

bico

Maybe Mount Merrion is so expensive because it is so boring. Everything is happening around it ,with many old suburbs changing constantly and loosing their old residents and character.
Whereas areas where people moved into in the 70's and 80's still have many of their first occupants who have paid for their houses and are in no hurry to sell or downsize if they can't get their price.
It's the eye of the storm.

antoinolachtnai

You'd have to hang out in Mount Merrion for a while to figure out what's so good about it. It actually does grow on you after a while. It is actually quite close to Stillorgan, which isn't quite a 'village heart' but it does have a lot of facilities. What I liked least about it is that a lot of the roads are effectively feeder roads for the dual carriageway.

Anyway, I'd say that there are a lot of areas of the city that are underpriced. North Strand was underpriced until recently. Glasnevin/Phibsboro is underpriced. Houses towards the Canal in Dublin 2 are underpriced, compared to apartments and houses in nearby Ballsbridge, considering they are located half-way between Ballsbridge and Grafton St.

Anything under 1000 euros/foot within two miles of O'Connell St. will probably turn out to be good value, in my opinion.

On the other hand, most of the outer 'burbs are overpriced.

Do-more

antoinolachtnai wrote:

Anything under 1000 euros/foot within two miles of O'Connell St. will probably turn out to be good value, in my opinion.

You do of course state your location is in "Outer Space" which no doubt helps to explain this comment!;)

antoinolachtnai

I'm dead serious! This property is certainly unlikely to fall in value in the short term, and still has some headroom for increases. Maybe it would be more accurate to say that 1000/foot is a good target price rather than a good value level. High quality space in the cheaper end of Ballsbridge is doing around 1200 a foot.

You are correct that I like to take a detached view of the property market.

jdivision

iguana wrote:

But there are some areas, like Ranelagh and Ballsbridge which would need to fall by about 80% for a family house to be affordable to even the relatively wealthy.

What's relatively wealthy?

iguana

jdivision wrote:

What's relatively wealthy?

Imo, if you are earning twice the national average you are relatively wealthy. That still gets you no where near owning a proper family house in D4 & 6.

Slicknik

iguana wrote:

And to my mind most areas of Dublin should really be about 30-50% cheaper. But there are some areas, like Ranelagh and Ballsbridge which would need to fall by about 80% for a family house to be affordable to even the relatively wealthy.

Your argument about affordability and prices needing to drop 80% doesn't make any sense. There are obviously people who can afford to and are willing to pay the high prices or they would never have reached the levels they are at.

iguana

Slicknik wrote:

Your argument about affordability and prices needing to drop 80% doesn't make any sense. There are obviously people who can afford to and are willing to pay the high prices or they would never have reached the levels they are at.

I'm not making an arguement. I'm just stating that they are way out of reach for the majority of people and also that I can see why certain areas are so highly priced, but that other areas baffle me.

joemc99

iguana wrote:

I'm not making an arguement. I'm just stating that they are way out of reach for the majority of people and also that I can see why certain areas are so highly priced, but that other areas baffle me.

'way out of reach for the majority of people', that does not make them 'overpriced' though!!!

iguana

joemc99 wrote:

'way out of reach for the majority of people', that does not make them 'overpriced' though!!!

They are if they don't have the amenities to reflect the cost.

Slicknik

iguana wrote:

They are if they don't have the amenities to reflect the cost.

I still don't understand your logic. Something is worth what the market is willing to pay for it. The fact that you personally don't think it's worth it changes nothing.

Sarn

iguana wrote:

My question is why is Mt Merrion so desirable? Ballsbridge is central to the city, has a nice central area full of nice restaurants, bars and cafes. And has some of the most beautiful architecture in the city. I can understand why people with millions are attracted to the area.

Mt Merrion has none of these things. It is essentially a nice but dull suburb, yet prices are on par with Ballsbridge and Ranelagh. I can see why people would like the area but not why they are paying millions to live there.

I suppose as pointed out it is because it is a nice quiet suburb with good schools, local shops (albeit more expensive than larger shops), UCD on it's doorstep, easy access to Stillorgan. It only takes about 20 mins on the bus into town so you have all those benefits too.

The question is why are people paying fortunes for most properties?

(I don't live in Mt. Merrion by the way)

Slicknik

Sarn wrote:

The question is why are people paying fortunes for most properties?

Because they can afford it and think it's worth it.

iguana

Slicknik wrote:

I still don't understand your logic. Something is worth what the market is willing to pay for it. The fact that you personally don't think it's worth it changes nothing.

Look right, this is the question I asked;

iguana wrote:

So which places in the country really baffle you by the cost of houses, which for some reason are even so much higher than the rest of the market?

It is in in no way an economic question. I just don't understand the draw of this particular area or why it is possible to pay more for a house there than a similar one in Ranelagh. And I asked are there other areas which baffle people as much as this area baffles me. That's what the thread is about, not market forces or whether or not there are people with the capital to spend on these houses or whether they should spend it.

It is about areas that people can't understand why other people are so keen on that the prices have gone so high, that's all. It's not a serious discussion, which is why I started a new thread and didn't continue to discuss this on a the bubble thread, which is serious.:rolleyes:

Colonel Sanders

apparently houses on botanic avenue were fetching close to €1m before prices started to slow. the mind boggles.

PhoenixRising

The reason prices are so high in Mount Merrion is that it's a lovely area, and people are willing to pay top dollar for it. Quite simple really.

Mount Merrion has a lot more going for it than you say. You obviously aren't familiar with the area. It has some magnificent houses, beautiful roads, lined with mature trees. It has the Deerpark public park, tennis courts, playing pitches etc.. It's perched on a hill (hence the mount bit) with great views of the city. It's right next to Stillorgan, Blackrock, and Clonskeagh and has a host of good schools available in the area. It's a well established, quiet area in a great location. Is that enough?

Whether that satisfies you or not is irrelevant. What's relevant is that the people who live in the area or aspire to live there obviously put a premium on these things I've mentioned and are willing to pay for it.

iguana

PhoenixRising wrote:

You obviously aren't familiar with the area.

I'm very familiar with the area, my husband grew up there and his parents have a large house there. In fact up until recently he absolutely despised the place. When we were buying our house in London he absolutely refused to consider one section of the area we were looking in because it reminded him of where he grew up.

He can see the good sides of it now and figures that it's a not a bad place to raise a family, but there are many areas of Dublin that are just as (or more) appealing but a lot cheaper. A house the same as his parent's one sold last year for over €3m and nobody in his family consider it worth it.

soma

iguana wrote:

..to my mind most areas of Dublin should really be about 30-50% cheaper. But there are some areas, like Ranelagh and Ballsbridge which would need to fall by about 80% for a family house to be affordable to even the relatively wealthy.

I personally find it hilarious that iguana has turned into this seemingly uber-bear in the past 6 weeks or so! Talk about changing your tune. :cool:

Seriously though it's amazing the amount of people I know who will never change their minds on anything due to hubris, good to see someone not afraid to call it as they see it.

PhoenixRising

iguana wrote:

I'm very familiar with the area, my husband grew up there and his parents have a large house there. In fact up until recently he absolutely despised the place. When we were buying our house in London he absolutely refused to consider one section of the area we were looking in because it reminded him of where he grew up.

He can see the good sides of it now and figures that it's a not a bad place to raise a family, but there are many areas of Dublin that are just as (or more) appealing but a lot cheaper. A house the same as his parent's one sold last year for over €3m and nobody in his family consider it worth it.

I'm not trying to justify the prices in the area. They probably are overvalued. Unfortunately, like it or not, the market drives the prices and if the market is willing to pay this kind of money for houses in the area then there is not much you or I can do about it. It is mad, but welcome to the Irish property market.:D

I just felt that you were stretching your argument somewhat with some of your observations about Mount Merrion. The prices in the area may be crazy, but you can't say it doesn't have a certain appeal that many other areas don't have. I know I'd love to have the money to be able to live in Mount Merrion. Maybe some day..

iguana

soma wrote:

I personally find it hilarious that iguana has turned into this seemingly uber-bear in the past 6 weeks or so! Talk about changing your tune. :cool:

Seriously though it's amazing the amount of people I know who will never change their minds on anything due to hubris, good to see someone not afraid to call it as they see it.

I have always, and probably will always be an advocate of buying over renting because buying affords you more security, an eventual goal of no more payments and allows you to do basic things like have pets. You can also get ppi for your mortgage in the event of illness or unemployment which I have never heard of for rent, but perhaps I'm wrong.

That doesn't mean that I didn't think the Irish market, with particular regard to Dublin isn't grossly over-priced. There is a reason I don't actually own a house there. But I wasn't convinced it was going to come down anytime soon.

Now I think all the evidence points to an upcoming crash. People are over-streched, interest rates are probably going to rise a few times more. I think the Irish economy has been built like an up-turned house of cards and it's going to topple pretty soon. If that makes me a bear fine, whatever. However I guess I'm a bull as far as the London market is concerned as I don't think prices here are headed anywhere but up in the short term (3-5years).

I'm just not the type of person who concludes something is so, and then defends that conclusion despite evidence to the contrary.

iguana

PhoenixRising wrote:

I know I'd love to have the money to be able to live in Mount Merrion. Maybe some day..

So if you won the lottery would Mt Merrion be top of your list? Would you choose it over Ranelagh, Ballsbridge, Terenure or Dun Laoighre?

doctor evil

Mount Merrion is a lovely area. It has a very well establisehed Resident Association.

There are plenty of amenities: schools (secondary, primary, creche), Deerpark it self, as someone else mentioned the view!, Stillorgan (Lots of stuff within that), Glenalbyn swimming pool and very good public transport- 46A/B/C/D, 746,116 etc.

PhoenixRising

iguana wrote:

So if you won the lottery would Mt Merrion be top of your list? Would you choose it over Ranelagh, Ballsbridge, Terenure or Dun Laoighre?

Yep. In my opinion (and that's all this is) it's a nicer area than any of those. In fact, I believe it's one of the nicest area's anywhere in Dublin.

The_Conductor

iguana wrote:

Imo, if you are earning twice the national average you are relatively wealthy. That still gets you no where near owning a proper family house in D4 & 6.

Twice the national average wage is 66k.
Someone earning this would still qualify for affordable housing in some areas of Dublin......

The_Conductor

iguana wrote:

I have always, and probably will always be an advocate of buying over renting because buying affords you more security, an eventual goal of no more payments and allows you to do basic things like have pets.

God, I wish I could have pets. I've a townhouse in Lucan village. My 900 year lease specifies the maximum size aquarium I may have in my house and which rooms of the house I am allowed to use to dry laundry in......
Don't even get me started on satellite dishes, daytime parking, latenight disturbances from building ongoing next door (masonry drilling etc).....

iguana

smccarrick wrote:

God, I wish I could have pets. I've a townhouse in Lucan village. My 900 year lease specifies the maximum size aquarium I may have in my house and which rooms of the house I am allowed to use to dry laundry in......

Ok fine, buying freehold.;)

Supercell

I'm in a pretty good position to post on this.

I grew up in Mount Merrion - Cypress Road to be precise, until late primary school age, then the parents moved to Dalkey.

I've since then lived in the city centre , Rathgar and now in Wicklow.

To be honest if I had to move back to Dublin, Mount Merrion would rank highly. Its a safe area for kids- no undesirables living close by, nice quiet roads for kids to play off the main ones. No litter, no graffiti.
In essence, a really really nice safe place to grow up or just live in with an excellent community sense as people have settled there a long time.
That's why it commands a high premium, it really is a great place to bring up a family and if not just to live and enjoy the atmosphere and neighbourhood that really does exist there.

If I won the lotto, I genuinely would be happy to buy there, perhaps not at todays prices though (but at a price that command a premium) and also have my country retreat too