Lack of racetracks in Ireland leading to speeding?

Owen

In Ireland, all we have is Mondello, so if you want get your kicks, and you live outside the Pale, it's on the public highway you'll do it. I know in the UK, the plethora of tracks there mean that if someone wants to push themselves, and their car, that they can do it safely on a track, for little financial outlay on a trackday - getting all their frustration out, and letting them be happy driving at 60mph for the rest of the week.

Do you think (Apart from the obvious negative financial implications of building, and running tracks) that this could work in Ireland? We could have a track in Cork, Galway, and leave one in Mondello, and we could finally have a Motoring Culture to be proud of in Ireland.

Seth Brundle

There are several tracks. Anyhow who will pay for them?

Henry Ford III

Lots of karting tracks around. Same difference.

hi5

Any drag strips in Ireland?
A fortune to made there with "run what ya brung"been thinking about it myself:)

Iompair

Check with your local motor club, there are quary events and grass events run all over the country during the year, along with other racing events.

Owen

There's a big difference between a kart track/autograss session and being able to drive modified cars etc on a real track.

junkyard

I suggested this here some time ago and all I got were excuses and criticism tbh and I was and still am willing to put my money where my mouth is.:)

Iompair

If you want to race, buy a car you can race. There's little point having a road racing car in Ireland.

Spend a couple of grand on getting an old car fitted with a roll cage and enter a rally if you want to race. Nothing more stupid then some twat claiming he's a great race driver when all he does is speed around normal roads in a plastic covered "modified" car.

_Kaiser_

People speed for a number of reasons:

- The chances of getting caught are (at the moment) very low
- Even if you are stopped, it's about 50/50 whether you'll get points/fined depending on the cop you get.
- The standard of driving and etiquette on the roads is so bad that people get stuck behind some muppet doing 75/80 in a 100 zone, a convoy of sheep forms behind them and people get frustrated and overtake then feel they have to make up time.
- Many of the roads have limits imposed that are either far too high for the conditions, or too low which means people make up their own minds as to what the limit should be.

None of these have any relation whatsoever in my opinion to the lack of dedicated tracks.

whippet

there is an abundance of tracks in the UK but yet there is a culture much the same as here of speeding.

Owen

junkyard wrote:

I suggested this here some time ago and all I got were excuses and criticism tbh and I was and still am willing to put my money where my mouth is.:)

That seems to be all that's happening on this thread too J. I really think this could make a difference, sure it won't stop the eejits who habitually use incorrect speed for their current circumstances, but for the rest of us, it provides a good source of entertainment, and an outlet for frustration.

Owen

whippet wrote:

there is an abundance of tracks in the UK but yet there is a culture much the same as here of speeding.

On Motorways yes, but in towns and b roads, the Brits are much more disciplined (At least in Bracknell, Woking, and Suffolk when I visit). Unlike here, where 60-80kph seems to be the norm in a 50kph zone.

Del2005

Iompair wrote:

If you want to race, buy a car you can race. There's little point having a road racing car in Ireland.

Spend a couple of grand on getting an old car fitted with a roll cage and enter a rally if you want to race. Nothing more stupid then some twat claiming he's a great race driver when all he does is speed around normal roads in a plastic covered "modified" car.

I may be using old info here but is it not ~EUR1000 to do a rally? Thats a lot of money just for a bit of fun. Also you have to do a medical and have loads of safety equipment.
Where as on a track day all you need is a helmet and entry fee and you can trash your car to your hearts desire.

5500

Iompair wrote:

If you want to race, buy a car you can race. There's little point having a road racing car in Ireland.

Why not?Plenty of my friends do this and i hope to do the same myself too.

Trackdays at mondello are getting alot of interest at present,i think the current problem is there overpriced and too far between.Some people would say mondello are holding back things by doing what they are.

Time attack is something being ran at prodrift the past two seasons and seems to have a huge interest but i think this year theres alot more regulations

Alot of people are heading north to bishopscourt for runs or watergrasshill in tip for drifting ect.

Im suprised sean quinn hasnt opened a drag strip yet,enticing all the under 25's holding policys with them to go on track!

Seriously though i know guys crying out for the likes of this so there's definitly a market there for it

astraboy

I could see the demand going higher for proper "run what ya brung" days in Mondello, and possibly more tracks around the country, most tracks such as rosegreen are too small for proper track days and suitable only for karting or drifting. The problem is it will take a lot of effort and capital to buy the land and develop it into a decent track, and I can imagine the rigramole needed with planning permission etc. I for one hope to be moving up towards more powerful cars in the next few years and it would be great to have a resource such as a track to test the car to its potential now and again the odd weekend.

As for other motorsports, there still remains plenty of ways to get your kicks such as drifiting, rallying or night navigation, however these can get expensive(rally especially) and rule out anyone just looking for a bit of speed now and again. A track that allows road cars on particular days would allow people to get kicks from their own daily car, and possibly test the limits of the car and their ability in a safe, controlled area as well as hone their driving skills. I could also see people buying cars specially for track use or maybe buying older powerful cars and striping these out for track use as they do in the UK.

The idea gets a thumbs up from me anyway!:)

Capt'n Midnight

hi5 wrote:

Any drag strips in Ireland?
A fortune to made there with "run what ya brung"been thinking about it myself:)

The UK has one or two airfields left over from WWII
we don't

and besides how much would the insurance cost ??

stratos

This is a fantastic thread, we need tracks with track days. there is only mondello. it's not even about fast driving as hammering your road car on a track will break it. You can find the limits of your car and yourself in a safe envoiroment without going nuts.

tuxy

Kaiser2000 wrote:

some muppet doing 75/80 in a 100 zone, a convoy of sheep .

What's wrong with doing that speed in a zone where the maximum is 100?

JohnCleary

tuxy wrote:

What's wrong with doing that speed in a zone where the maximum is 100?

Here we go :rolleyes:

This post has NOTHING to do with the topic being covered, for once, just ONCE can there be a thread that stays on topic?

I agree with the lack of tracks. I'd happily pay a few euro every Sunday morning to 'let her loose' (Now all I need is something crazy fast to let loose in the first place)

5500

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

The UK has one or two airfields left over from WWII
we don't

and besides how much would the insurance cost ??

abbeyshrule in longford has been used for a drag event a few years back,id say insurance would be mega €€€ though

_Kaiser_

One thing that would have to go hand in hand with this though is advanced driver training to teach people how to handle their cars at high speeds.

It's not enough to just build a few tracks, pay a few quid, and say "off ya go..

hi5

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

The UK has one or two airfields left over from WWII
we don't

and besides how much would the insurance cost ??

This is a defeatist mentality which could be applied to anything and then nothing would ever get done.

Why dont all car racing/modifying/enthusiasts get together and organise themselves into a group?
when you're in a group you have power, the bigger the group the stronger you are .
A large group can lobby politicians with surprising success.
There are thousands of car enthusiasts in Ireland thats an awfull lot of votes to be lost or gained depending on what you give or dont give!

How much does the Government give to the GAA for Croake Park?

junkyard

Anyone out there willing to give it a go? Invest money and time in it? I think it would pay off handsomely if it got supported. If you had the right location you could run an event there every week and lots of week days too. You could even have industrial units at the location and rent them out for motorfactors and a bodyshop and engine modifications etc. and a restaurant/bar like the www.ace-cafe-london.com Cars are a big business here too and I think it would be viable.

astraboy

@junkyard I'm sure it would be viabile, in fact I'm sure for anyone looking to invest it would have great potential, however youknow how long things take to get past planning permission in this country, plus there is the issue of a suitable site. Where are there enough acres with potential in this country? I'm sure there are plenty of sites it just a case of finding them!:) However I'm sure that shower an taisce will object because your going to be endangering some form of moss.....:rolleyes:

Mickk

junkyard wrote:

Anyone out there willing to give it a go? Invest money and time in it? I think it would pay off handsomely if it got supported. If you had the right location you could run an event there every week and lots of week days too. You could even have industrial units at the location and rent them out for motorfactors and a bodyshop and engine modifications etc. and a restaurant/bar like the www.ace-cafe-london.com Cars are a big business here too and I think it would be viable.

Where were you thinking and how much are you talking? I know on this scale it is not going to be a "do it yourself" project but you might be surprised, I have done projects myself completed for around 20k that I have had quotes for ranging from 120-180k!! Most important thing would be where you were thinking?

junkyard

Mickk wrote:

Where were you thinking and how much are you talking? I know on this scale it is not going to be a "do it yourself" project but you might be surprised, I have done projects myself completed for around 20k that I have had quotes for ranging from 120-180k!! Most important thing would be where you were thinking?

It would have to be somewhere central, possibly mid-lands (land would be cheaper there compared to Cork or Dublin) As you say Mickk it's not a one man venture by any means plus it would have to pay it's keep hence industrial units and organised events. I would imagine it would take the form of a limited company that would buy the land and develop the whole venture in stages. Would you be interested?

Mickk

junkyard wrote:

It would have to be somewhere central, possibly mid-lands (land would be cheaper there compared to Cork or Dublin) As you say Mickk it's not a one man venture by any means plus it would have to pay it's keep hence industrial units and organised events. I would imagine it would take the form of a limited company that would buy the land and develop the whole venture in stages. Would you be interested?

Not in a position right now just opened a gym in camden st that has completely drained me but in a year or two it might be an idea.

SouperComputer

Personally I dont think a lack of circuits it is at all relevant relevant to "speeding", but I'm all for seeing another facility in Ireland.

If you have the need for speed and want to race, go karting, and I dont mean messing about indoors in 5.5Hp lawnmowers, I mean the the real deal. From age 8 to 80 you can compete in karting which euro for euro gives the closest, most competitive and fastest racing about.


The main obstacle for such a venture is planning permission/resident objection. The last thing residents want is a scangathon with chavved up cars. This might sound harsh, but thats how I would think most people would view it, regardless of the reality.

Naturally insurance is going to be steep as well as construction and maintenance costs.

What kind of facility do you envisage? Dragstrip or circuit? I think dragstrip to start and grow from there, its more novel and you are not competing with mondello per se. Drag isnt really my cup of tea, but it is for plenty of others.

I agree with the need for experienced staff, this is paramount for safety and success.


/edit another potiental issue is that under the GCR (general competition rules) of an "Official" Motorsport Ireland\FIA licence, participating in a non FIA/MI event can lead to you loosing your licence. This means that people racing at the prospective facility may have difficulty gaining a real licence and those who already have one may be reluctant to take part.

So ideally the facility should have MI/FIA support, but that means all competiors must have a competition licence. Not a bad thing IMO but im not sure how people who want to take part would feel.

rowanh

I think this is a very good idea, ive been saying for ages that there is a real lack of tracks in ireland for track days, drifting and track based motorsport, Id love to drive on a track but have not for these reasons,

The only one i really know of is mondello.
Its a good chunk of a weeks wages for me to do a half day.
Everyone seems to think its a joke like a big kart track.

Though at the same time now that i have just bought an impreza which is my first performance car, i do intend to go there, inless i can find of somewhere better like the one in the north or others.

Maybe try and make a business plan. Its easy enough to get money for anything if you can show it will make profit.

If modello charge 250 or so for a day on its track and they have 100 cars throughout the day, which i have been told they do on trackdays though i could be wrong that would be 25000 euro gross profit per day if you had one a week throughout the year that would be around 1.25 million .

In the same way if you hold an event that draws 2000 people and each one pays 40 euro in then you have 80,000 gross profit.

I heard before that ireland has more WRC cars than anyother country in the world, possibly per capita but i think just overall. If there is a potentially large motorsport industry which like many things in Ireland is hindered into developing due to lack of resources other than fields for rallying maybe it would be something nice.


Try and answer these questions

How much land is needed?
Where are the ideal locations?
How much will that land cost in those locations?
What are the costs of building different types of tracks?
What are the costs of maintaining a track?
How much is Public liability insurance for it?
What is everyway possible of making money from it?
How revenue could be generated annually from these?
Is it vialble to make profit after taking hte costs from the gross profit?

Public liability insurance was the main reason for small businesses going out of business at some stage recently, it could be the thing thast stops people doing this.

SouperComputer

If modello charge 250 or so for a day on its track and they have 100 cars throughout the day, which i have been told they do on trackdays though i could be wrong that would be 25000 euro gross profit per day if you had one a week throughout the year that would be around 1.25 million

I admire your optimism, but It would be nowhere near 1.25 million. Very few people are going to drop that kind of cash every week. I think you would be lucky to nail that amount once a month on average. You even commented yourself that a track day eats a considerable chunk from your wages/disposable income.

In the same way if you hold an event that draws 2000 people and each one pays 40 euro in then you have 80,000 gross profit

Ive never actually had to pay to watch a race so I could be a bit off, but 40PPS for spectators sounds like a ripoff to me.

Market research would have the last say, but I think a GOOD drag facility would be the best starting point. You can't depend on spectator income initally, so start by maximising funds from competition. Get em in, take their money, let them do their quarter mile run, get em out. Rinse and repeat, assembly line style. Develop a good competition base, have some big events, market them well and start drawing the punters.

A pay-per-run deal, say 5e offers a low entry cost for customers, which is a good thing in this day and age. Offer a good service with proper computer timing systems and printouts uploads to mylaps or whatnot.

astraboy

I've payed 15 euro to park in a field and spectate at watergrasshill for the drifting, maybe 40E is a lot but I'm sure for events such a Touring car races, which mondello gets or used to get, people would pay that for a proper facility. I don't see any problem with people going out and using their performance cars in a safe environment, at the end of the day if someone crashes on a track from overdoing it they will most likely just damage their car and no one else will be involved. Proper briefings before track days and also instruction would reduce the accidents anyway.

@rowanh your right about the WRC cars, we have more per capita then any place else in the world! Shows how strong motorsport is here and its growing. I reckon the main issue for a track would be insurance, the companies in Ireland always seem afraid of anything or any event not covered in bubble wrap and cotton wool, most companies would charge ridiclous quotes because a race track is against the status quo. I can only imagine the phone calls from locals to Joe Duffy where ever the track would be built. The fact is most guys with high performance cars I know are very mature and restrained in their cars, they know there is a time and a place and the track is it!:)